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Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
Everything made, no matter how hard we try will have small differences, no 2
resistors will have exactly the same value, thats why they have a rating like 20%, 10%, 5% tolerance they are within, say 10% of the rated resistance ( a 100 ohm resistor may be 90 ohms or 110 ). With that in mind, and the number of resistors in a radio, there can be 1,000's or millions of combination. And every component in the radio is the same way ( capacitors, transistors, wire, coils, diodes, etc ) So no 2 radios will EVER be exactly alike, they will be ( like their components) within 20% or 10% of a rated 'projected' radio design. More expensive radios use closer tolerence components so they will have much closer performance, but cheap-o's using 20% tolerence parts, you may be lucky if they are even similar :D "Cato" wrote in message oups.com... Here's a question that I have often wondered about.... Let's say you have two of the same radio model... two Sony 7600GRs, two Kaito KA1102s, Eton E5s, Icoms, Kenwoods, etc. or whatever... How likely is it that they will both have the very same sensitivity, selectivity, scanning sensitivity, (both stopping on the same stations during a scan etc.) etc.?? Or will one of the two always be a bit better then the other? Both a bit different?? Cato |
Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
On May 20, 10:50 am, "labtech_one" wrote:
Everything made, no matter how hard we try will have small differences, no 2 resistors will have exactly the same value, thats why they have a rating like 20%, 10%, 5% tolerance they are within, say 10% of the rated resistance ( a 100 ohm resistor may be 90 ohms or 110 ). With that in mind, and the number of resistors in a radio, there can be 1,000's or millions of combination. And every component in the radio is the same way ( capacitors, transistors, wire, coils, diodes, etc ) So no 2 radios will EVER be exactly alike, they will be ( like their components) within 20% or 10% of a rated 'projected' radio design. More expensive radios use closer tolerence components so they will have much closer performance, but cheap-o's using 20% tolerence parts, you may be lucky if they are even similar :D "Cato" wrote in message oups.com... Here's a question that I have often wondered about.... Let's say you have two of the same radio model... two Sony 7600GRs, two Kaito KA1102s, Eton E5s, Icoms, Kenwoods, etc. or whatever... How likely is it that they will both have the very same sensitivity, selectivity, scanning sensitivity, (both stopping on the same stations during a scan etc.) etc.?? Or will one of the two always be a bit better then the other? Both a bit different?? Cato- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Greetings: I certainly appreciate everyones opinion on my question about the similarity or difference in reception of two radios of the same manufacturer and model number. It appears from the reply so far, that if one was to sit down with any two such radios, and did a side by side comparison, it should come as no surprise if there are small differences in reception sensitivity, selectivity etc., and we should just accept that fact and live with it. But in most cases, as price and quality of components go up, variations in reception between two radios of the same manufacturer and model number should become less. If any one else has any comments on this topic, I will certainly be interested in reading them. Regards, Cato |
Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
Cato wrote:
Greetings: I certainly appreciate everyones opinion on my question about the similarity or difference in reception of two radios of the same manufacturer and model number. It appears from the reply so far, that if one was to sit down with any two such radios, and did a side by side comparison, it should come as no surprise if there are small differences in reception sensitivity, selectivity etc., and we should just accept that fact and live with it. But in most cases, as price and quality of components go up, variations in reception between two radios of the same manufacturer and model number should become less. If any one else has any comments on this topic, I will certainly be interested in reading them. Regards, Cato Even if the radio are the same, or nearly so, another challenge is how to make the measurements accurately. If you are scanning the band to see what one picks up vs. another, unless the radios are on the same antenna, and scanning frequencies at exactly the same time there will be observed differences. This is just because any fading of any signal being revived can affect the results. In comparing radios for real world results, you will have trouble because the real world is constantly changing. If you use lab equipment to make the measurements then you have a much better chance at seeing differences in radios. At least your measurements will be more consistent. However, then you would need to relate the lab measurements to real world application. I wouldn't be overly concerned about componenet tolerances. A good designer would understand the component variations and either specify proper components or design the circuit so that it is not that sensitive to component variations. On many circuits the variations of components are not that critical. (A few are, but many are not.) So generic comments about component variation are not important. What is important is looking at those component values that really do matter. Alignment can matter significantly, especially in front end circuits. I've seen lots of performance variation in AM radios because the tracking between antenna, RF, and oscillator tuning was bad. If you look at the circuits in many modern radios, you'll find designs that also minimize the need for critical alignment. craigm |
Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
labtech_one wrote:
Everything made, no matter how hard we try will have small differences, no 2 resistors will have exactly the same value, thats why they have a rating like 20%, 10%, 5% tolerance they are within, say 10% of the rated resistance ( a 100 ohm resistor may be 90 ohms or 110 ). With that in mind, and the number of resistors in a radio, there can be 1,000's or millions of combination. And every component in the radio is the same way ( capacitors, transistors, wire, coils, diodes, etc ) So no 2 radios will EVER be exactly alike, they will be ( like their components) within 20% or 10% of a rated 'projected' radio design. More expensive radios use closer tolerence components so they will have much closer performance, but cheap-o's using 20% tolerence parts, you may be lucky if they are even similar :D The old 50%, 20% and 10% are obsolete tolerances. Since almost everything made today uses surface mount, 5% is the worst tolerance you'll see. 1% is common, .1% and .01% are seeing more use in critical circuits. We were using 1% resistors and capacitors in 95% of the locations, and 1% capacitors in critical RF, IF and Video circuits. (Audio was treated as narrow band video). In fact, the 1% resistors were cheaper in 2000 than the 5% they replaced. -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
KE4ODD wrote:
Are you near I-75? About 10 miles or so. You can Email me for more info. -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
On May 27, 7:13 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: labtech_one wrote: Everything made, no matter how hard we try will have small differences, no 2 resistors will have exactly the same value, thats why they have a rating like 20%, 10%, 5% tolerance they are within, say 10% of the rated resistance ( a 100 ohm resistor may be 90 ohms or 110 ). With that in mind, and the number of resistors in a radio, there can be 1,000's or millions of combination. And every component in the radio is the same way ( capacitors, transistors, wire, coils, diodes, etc ) So no 2 radios will EVER be exactly alike, they will be ( like their components) within 20% or 10% of a rated 'projected' radio design. More expensive radios use closer tolerence components so they will have much closer performance, but cheap-o's using 20% tolerence parts, you may be lucky if they are even similar :D The old 50%, 20% and 10% are obsolete tolerances. Since almost everything made today uses surface mount, 5% is the worst tolerance you'll see. 1% is common, .1% and .01% are seeing more use in critical circuits. We were using 1% resistors and capacitors in 95% of the locations, and 1% capacitors in critical RF, IF and Video circuits. (Audio was treated as narrow band video). In fact, the 1% resistors were cheaper in 2000 than the 5% they replaced. -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Again I would like to thank everyone for their reply to the question. So it seems, that very cheap identical radios have a good chance of having variations in performance, because of cheap, low quality components. Components can vary greatly in quality just by chance. One cheap inexpensive radio might be a relatively great performer, and a second of the same radio might be very poor in performance. Luck of the draw. And very expensive, very complicated radios (like the ICOM R9000) might also have some minor differences in performance between two or more of them, because of their complexity. As Bob stated, " I believe Rob Sherwood once said that the Icom R9000 was so complex, that most samples he saw had at least some minor issue or other. " And radios somewhere in the middle in price and complexity would have on the whole less variation, and perform much more the same. All under identical testing conditions of course. Thanks again everyone, but as before, if anyone has more to add to this thread, feel free, Cato |
Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
Yep,all depends on how they were tuned at the factory.You will probally
never find two same same cars tuned exactly alike either. cuhulin |
Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
KE4ODD,I am bout half a mile North (of course South is always bestest)
of I-20 in the West side of Jackson,Mississippi.If you arrrr comin thisaway,,,, bring wimmins with you,,,,,, cuhulin .................................................. ............. Weep no morrrre,,,,, my Ladddyyy,,,, ohhhhhh,,, weeppppp no morrrrre forrrrr meeeee,,,,,, .................................................. ............ |
Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
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Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
Well,y'all get together and have a good time then.
All Hands on Deck movie is on Radio tb now cuhulin |
Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
BDK wrote:
In article , says... KE4ODD wrote: Are you near I-75? About 10 miles or so. You can Email me for more info. I'm closer than that. About 4. BDK Yes, but you are on the other end of I-75. ;) -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
lsmyer wrote:
For what it's worth, I'm about 0.1 miles from I-75. I can hear the traffic anytime I'm outside. Where along I-75? It runs all the way from Sault Ste. Marie, to the Miami area. -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
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Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
BDK wrote:
In article , says... BDK wrote: I'm closer than that. About 4. Yes, but you are on the other end of I-75. ;) This is true. And glad of it, this time of year. ;) According to your IP address you're near Cpl. Klinger and the Mud Hens. ;) -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
BDK wrote:
In article , says... BDK wrote: In article , says... BDK wrote: I'm closer than that. About 4. Yes, but you are on the other end of I-75. ;) This is true. And glad of it, this time of year. ;) According to your IP address you're near Cpl. Klinger and the Mud Hens. ;) Yeah the Hens aren't far away, about 10 minutes. Jamie lives in the LA area. Still glad I'm not in FL this time of year. Jamie may be in LA, but Klinger will always be in Toledo! :) Why? Hurricane season doesn't start, till Friday. -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
In article ,
says... BDK wrote: In article , says... BDK wrote: In article , says... BDK wrote: I'm closer than that. About 4. Yes, but you are on the other end of I-75. ;) This is true. And glad of it, this time of year. ;) According to your IP address you're near Cpl. Klinger and the Mud Hens. ;) Yeah the Hens aren't far away, about 10 minutes. Jamie lives in the LA area. Still glad I'm not in FL this time of year. Jamie may be in LA, but Klinger will always be in Toledo! :) Why? Hurricane season doesn't start, till Friday. Too hot. Too humid. Winter's fine down there, but late spring to early fall, forget it. BDK |
Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
On Tue, 29 May 2007, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
BDK wrote: In article , says... BDK wrote: I'm closer than that. About 4. Yes, but you are on the other end of I-75. ;) This is true. And glad of it, this time of year. ;) According to your IP address you're near Cpl. Klinger and the Mud Hens. ;) Don't mention that city to me! I sat for two hours on the Ohio Turnpike Thanksgiving weekend 2005 thanks to the back-up at the I-75 toll booths. -- John Mayson Austin, Texas, USA |
Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
On Tue, 29 May 2007, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Yeah the Hens aren't far away, about 10 minutes. Jamie lives in the LA area. Still glad I'm not in FL this time of year. Jamie may be in LA, but Klinger will always be in Toledo! :) Why? Hurricane season doesn't start, till Friday. Having lived half my life in Florida I can say anytime is a good time to avoid Florida. -- John Mayson Austin, Texas, USA |
Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
Hens? Last Saturday morning,I went to the Animal Health Products,Inc
store to buy a big bag of Pro Pac www.propacpetfood.com dog food for my little doggy.There are four hens and one rooster that hang out over there behind that store. www.incallander.co.uk/music/maggiemp3.wav cuhulin |
Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
Those weather people don't know anything.Hurricane season starts when
the first Hurricanes start getting wound up.I never believe anything those so-called weather people say.But,David Hartman at www.wapt.com isn't too bad.If he says,Take cover now! you better believe it. cuhulin |
Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
I own a half acre of land at Interlachen,Putnam County,Florida.About
seven miles West of Palatka. cuhulin |
Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
John Mayson wrote:
On Tue, 29 May 2007, Michael A. Terrell wrote: BDK wrote: In article , says... BDK wrote: I'm closer than that. About 4. Yes, but you are on the other end of I-75. ;) This is true. And glad of it, this time of year. ;) According to your IP address you're near Cpl. Klinger and the Mud Hens. ;) Don't mention that city to me! I sat for two hours on the Ohio Turnpike Thanksgiving weekend 2005 thanks to the back-up at the I-75 toll booths. I never visited that part of Ohio. I only visited Lima, Akron and Columbus a few times when I lived in Middletown. Dayton and Cincinnati were frequent visits. I worked in Cincinnati for about five years. -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
BDK wrote:
Too hot. Too humid. Winter's fine down there, but late spring to early fall, forget it. Humm. Its too hot and humid year round, but its home. -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
Differences Between Two of the Same Radio
In article ,
says... On Tue, 29 May 2007, Michael A. Terrell wrote: BDK wrote: In article , says... BDK wrote: I'm closer than that. About 4. Yes, but you are on the other end of I-75. ;) This is true. And glad of it, this time of year. ;) According to your IP address you're near Cpl. Klinger and the Mud Hens. ;) Don't mention that city to me! I sat for two hours on the Ohio Turnpike Thanksgiving weekend 2005 thanks to the back-up at the I-75 toll booths. Sure it wasn't backed up due to a bridge stuck open? It's almost a thing of the past, the new bridge is about to open, no more drawbridge problems, no more backups because of them. BDK |
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