|
HD Radio
Hi guys, Long time no talk.
I hope all is well. I haven't been following this HD radio subject so I have a question about it. Will I still be able to pick up the same stations with my old analog radios if they go HD? Hi again Lucky |
HD Radio
On Sep 10, 1:31 pm, "Lucky" wrote:
Hi guys, Long time no talk. I hope all is well. I haven't been following this HD radio subject so I have a question about it. Will I still be able to pick up the same stations with my old analog radios if they go HD? Hi again Lucky So long as the stations aren't too far away, but expect to hear a lot of digital hash along with the signal. |
HD Radio
Hi Steve.
So all my 11 analog radios are now "junk"? Will we now be "forced" to buy a HD radio and the price of even the best analog equipment not sell as high as they used to? Analog is soon to be dead?? Lucky Lucky "Steve" wrote in message s.com... On Sep 10, 1:31 pm, "Lucky" wrote: Hi guys, Long time no talk. I hope all is well. I haven't been following this HD radio subject so I have a question about it. Will I still be able to pick up the same stations with my old analog radios if they go HD? Hi again Lucky So long as the stations aren't too far away, but expect to hear a lot of digital hash along with the signal. |
HD Radio
On Sep 10, 2:00 pm, "Lucky" wrote:
Hi Steve. So all my 11 analog radios are now "junk"? Will we now be "forced" to buy a HD radio and the price of even the best analog equipment not sell as high as they used to? Analog is soon to be dead?? Lucky Lucky"Steve" wrote in message s.com... On Sep 10, 1:31 pm, "Lucky" wrote: Hi guys, Long time no talk. I hope all is well. I haven't been following this HD radio subject so I have a question about it. Will I still be able to pick up the same stations with my old analog radios if they go HD? Hi again Lucky So long as the stations aren't too far away, but expect to hear a lot of digital hash along with the signal.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Oh I don't know about that. For one thing, I don't think HD AM is going to be around for too long. I suspect it'll go the way of AM stereo, so you might just have to wait it out. |
HD Radio
On Sep 10, 10:31 am, "Lucky" wrote:
- - Hi guys, Long time no talk. - I hope all is well. - I haven't been following this HD radio subject - so I have a question about it. - - Will I still be able to pick up the same stations - with my old analog radios if they go HD? - - Hi again - Lucky Lucky - If your are 'lucky' Yes. [ Where you Live and Listen and the Distance to each AM/MW Radio Station's Transmitter is important. ] AM/MW "HD" RADIO : But may be not -if- what you like to Listen to the AM/MW Radio is beyond the 10mv/m Contour. Example : KSFO-AM 560 kHz in the SF Bay Area http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin...=KSFO&sr=Y&s=C Predicted daytime coverage area for KSFO 560 AM, San Francisco, CA http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin...atus=L&hours=D * Prior to "HD" AM/MW Radio you could generally hear Analog KSFO out to the Purple Line {Distant Zone} * Now with "HD" AM/MW Radio you will most likely only be able to hear Analog KSFO out to the Red Line {Local Zone} - - - Within the 10mv/m Contour. THE BIG DIFFERENCE IN AM/MW RADIO WILL BE AT NIGHT FOR THE MOST PART DXING WILL BE GONE. Predicted Nighttime* coverage area for KSFO 560 AM, San Francisco, CA http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin...atus=L&hours=N * Prior to "HD" AM/MW Radio you could generally hear Analog KSFO at Night out to the Purple Line {Distant Zone} and Beyond into "The DX Zone" . . . * Now with "HD" AM/MW Radio you will most likely only be able to hear Analog KSFO at Night out to the Red Line {Local Zone} * No More "DX" AM/MW Radio at Night. RESULT - AM/MW "HD" Radio will make all {both Analog and Digital} AM/MW Radio Listening 'local'. - - - Especially at Night. FM "HD" RADIO : -WRT- FM "HD" Radio for the most part Analog FM Radio has always been a 'local' Broadcast Media : So unless you live on the Fringes of the FM Analog or Digital Signal you will still hear all {both Analog and Digital} the FM Radio Stations that you hear now. Example : KQED-FM 88.5 MHz in the SF Bay Area http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin...=KQED&sr=Y&s=C Predicted coverage area for KQED 88.5 FM, San Francisco, CA http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin...atus=L&hours=U * Prior to "HD" FW Radio you could generally hear Analog KQED out to the Purple Line {Distant Zone} * Now with "HD" FW Radio you will most likely only be able to hear Analog KQED out to the Red Line {Local Zone} - - - Within the 60 dBu Contour http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=FM257373.html life exists and radio listening happens beyond the 10mv/m contour ~ RHF |
HD Radio
On Sep 10, 1:31?pm, "Lucky" wrote:
Hi guys, Long time no talk. I hope all is well. I haven't been following this HD radio subject so I have a question about it. Will I still be able to pick up the same stations with my old analog radios if they go HD? Hi again Lucky Here read through my blog: http://hdradiofarce.blogspot.com/ HD Radio is nothing but a farce and the HD channels are only 1% the power-levels of the analog channels. Besides, you can listen on-line for free at clearchannelmusic.com./hdradio, but try slacker.com, instead. |
HD Radio
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:31:57 -0400, "Lucky"
wrote: Hi guys, Long time no talk. I hope all is well. I haven't been following this HD radio subject so I have a question about it. Will I still be able to pick up the same stations with my old analog radios if they go HD? Hi again Lucky Yes and no. FM HD stations wipe out stations next door. AM HD stations make gurgling noises and lack high end. You cannot listen to an AM HD station in sync selectable sideband, so your $1,400 Drake is less useful than it was last year. And AM HD stations wipe out 2 of their neighbors, on each side. Lovely. |
HD Radio
On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 14:00:59 -0400, "Lucky"
wrote: Hi Steve. So all my 11 analog radios are now "junk"? Will we now be "forced" to buy a HD radio and the price of even the best analog equipment not sell as high as they used to? Analog is soon to be dead?? Analog doesn't allow conditional access. Digital is the first step to all ''Pay Radio''. |
HD Radio
On Sep 10, 2:00 pm, "Lucky" wrote:
Hi Steve. So all my 11 analog radios are now "junk"? Will we now be "forced" to buy a HD radio and the price of even the best analog equipment not sell as high as they used to? Analog is soon to be dead?? No, your radios are not junk. Your analog radios will still pick up stations. The only problem is that if you have a hi-fi radio (like a Tivoli Model 1 or something similar), the local AM stations will sound like junk (clipping and "hissy") and distant stations will be blotted out by the IBOC sideband hash. If you're listening on a pocket radio, however....you may not notice anything. With FM stations, the local stations' sound isn't affected, but their IBOC sidebands will still block out first-adjacent out-of-town signals. Stephanie Weil New York City, USA |
HD Radio
Your old radios will still work; the high-definition (HD) signal
that's currently in use is compatible with good old-fashioned AM receivers. This is because the digital information is placed (in frequency) above and below the analog signal. There are couple of HD stations here in the Washington DC area, and on any AM receiver I've used so far, including my antique tube radios, this digital "hash" has not bleed through to the audio stages. When accurately tuned to an HD station, the voice and music sound just as it always has. The Ibiquity website has information on how this all works, and at one time, you could download a couple of conference papers describing how the HD signal is formatted. Go to the following link and start fishing around: http://www.ibiquity.com/hd_radio/hdr...w_does_it_work There's concern that HD signals cause interference because the digital information is placed in what are often referred to as "guard bands," essentially the blank space on the dial between local stations. Indeed, when you tune across an HD signal you hear hash, then clean audio, then hash again. Consequently, to date the FCC has only allowed HD signal to be broadcast during daytime when AM radio signals travel shorter distances. However, this restriction may have been lifted recently. Perhaps other posters can comment on this. Personally, I'm indifferent as whether HD radio is here to stay or ultimately proves to be a wash. If it does gain a foothold, and the public enthusiastically buys new receivers to hear it, then it could breathe new life back into AM radio, which has been moribund for years. Right now, I'm not inclined to cough up $200 for a new AM radio, but if the price were a third of that, I might be interested. Finally, if HD radio becomes a permanent presence on the AM band, I imagine it will be decades before a completely digital version is adopted, if at all. AM broadcasting has been with us since 1922 and there are millions of analog-only receivers out there. I therefore imagine broadcasters much favor the current backward-compatible HD format, because adopting it won't mean shutting out entire audiences. -Dave Drumheller |
HD Radio
On Sep 11, 5:09?pm, wrote:
Your old radios will still work; the high-definition (HD) signal that's currently in use is compatible with good old-fashioned AM receivers. This is because the digital information is placed (in frequency) above and below the analog signal. There are couple of HD stations here in the Washington DC area, and on any AM receiver I've used so far, including my antique tube radios, this digital "hash" has not bleed through to the audio stages. When accurately tuned to an HD station, the voice and music sound just as it always has. The Ibiquity website has information on how this all works, and at one time, you could download a couple of conference papers describing how the HD signal is formatted. Go to the following link and start fishing around: http://www.ibiquity.com/hd_radio/hdr...w_does_it_work There's concern that HD signals cause interference because the digital information is placed in what are often referred to as "guard bands," essentially the blank space on the dial between local stations. Indeed, when you tune across an HD signal you hear hash, then clean audio, then hash again. Consequently, to date the FCC has only allowed HD signal to be broadcast during daytime when AM radio signals travel shorter distances. However, this restriction may have been lifted recently. Perhaps other posters can comment on this. Personally, I'm indifferent as whether HD radio is here to stay or ultimately proves to be a wash. If it does gain a foothold, and the public enthusiastically buys new receivers to hear it, then it could breathe new life back into AM radio, which has been moribund for years. Right now, I'm not inclined to cough up $200 for a new AM radio, but if the price were a third of that, I might be interested. Finally, if HD radio becomes a permanent presence on the AM band, I imagine it will be decades before a completely digital version is adopted, if at all. AM broadcasting has been with us since 1922 and there are millions of analog-only receivers out there. I therefore imagine broadcasters much favor the current backward-compatible HD format, because adopting it won't mean shutting out entire audiences. -Dave Drumheller Did you notice that WTWP has had their IBUZZ exciter off for days ? Now, I can hear WTRI without buzzing again ! |
HD Radio
On Sep 11, 6:57 pm, IBOCcrock wrote:
Did you notice that WTWP has had their IBUZZ exciter off for days ? Now, I can hear WTRI without buzzing again ! Yeah, I've heard the buzz on some of the DC stations, but thought is was probably due to some noise source local to my neighborhood. There's lots of stray noise on the AM band these days, so I simply ignored the buzz as best I could. If a station was (or stations were) responsible for this, shame on the engineers running the equipment. -Dave Drumheller |
HD Radio
On Sep 11, 8:45?pm, wrote:
On Sep 11, 6:57 pm, IBOCcrock wrote: Did you notice that WTWP has had their IBUZZ exciter off for days ? Now, I can hear WTRI without buzzing again ! Yeah, I've heard the buzz on some of the DC stations, but thought is was probably due to some noise source local to my neighborhood. There's lots of stray noise on the AM band these days, so I simply ignored the buzz as best I could. If a station was (or stations were) responsible for this, shame on the engineers running the equipment. -Dave Drumheller The IBUZZ is from 630 and 980 AM. - tune 10 and 20Khz away from the main channels, to see what I mean... |
HD Radio
On Sep 11, 5:45 pm, wrote:
On Sep 11, 6:57 pm, IBOCcrock wrote: Did you notice that WTWP has had their IBUZZ exciter off for days ? Now, I can hear WTRI without buzzing again ! Yeah, I've heard the buzz on some of the DC stations, but thought is was probably due to some noise source local to my neighborhood. There's lots of stray noise on the AM band these days, so I simply ignored the buzz as best I could. If a station was (or stations were) responsible for this, shame on the engineers running the equipment. -Dave Drumheller DD - The Engineers are doing the best that they can with the IBOC Transmission Scheme; which uses reduced Analog Bandwidth and Extended Digital Side Bands. It is the IBOC Technology that is the Problem especially when you are using an Analog AM/MW Radio to listen to and Analog Signal coming from an "HD" {IBOC} AM/MW Radio Station that also has an "HD" {IBOC} AM/MW Radio Station on both Adjacent Channels : one 10 kHz above; and one 10 kHz below. You will notice the Digital Hash. When this happens and it will for many AM/MW Radio Listeners in the future. Your 'choices' are : 1 - Tune to a different AM/MW Radio Station 2 - Change to FM Radio Listening. 3 - Buy an "HD" {IBOC} Radio and then Listen to your Favorite AM/MW Radio Station in "HD". The AM/MW Radio Stations using the IBOC Technology 'hope' that you will do # 3. FWIW - A couple of the posts that I have read else where have basically said that when the Poster had the Digial Hash problem with their favorite AM/MW Radio Station; and went out and bought a "HD" Radio; the "HD" Radio reception was as good as and usually better sounding than the 'old' Analog AM/MW Radio Station prior to IBOC. - - - Sounds like back to Square-One at a higher cost. For the common {average} AM/MW Radio Listener : at Home; in their Car; or at Work in an Office. Who lives in an Urban Area with good Signal Levels : IBOC as a Mass Media Technology may provide a better Radio Listening Experience. But for those AM/MW Radio Listeners in the Suburbs and Rural Areas with limited Listening Choices and weak Signal Levels : IBOC as a Mass Media Technology may prove to be a Radio Listening Experience they find lacking. FM "HD" Radio and the FM Radio Band Plan are a different matter. For the common {average} FM Radio Listener : IBOC and "HD" FM Radio should provide them a better Radio Listening Experience in all areas : Urban; Suburban and Rural as IBOC is fully adopted and the HD Signal Level is increased to fill-in the Gaps of the Digital Broadcast Signal Coverage. that's my assessment ~ RHF |
HD Radio
RHF wrote:
On Sep 11, 5:45 pm, wrote: On Sep 11, 6:57 pm, IBOCcrock wrote: Did you notice that WTWP has had their IBUZZ exciter off for days ? Now, I can hear WTRI without buzzing again ! Yeah, I've heard the buzz on some of the DC stations, but thought is was probably due to some noise source local to my neighborhood. There's lots of stray noise on the AM band these days, so I simply ignored the buzz as best I could. If a station was (or stations were) responsible for this, shame on the engineers running the equipment. -Dave Drumheller DD - The Engineers are doing the best that they can with the IBOC Transmission Scheme; which uses reduced Analog Bandwidth and Extended Digital Side Bands. It is the IBOC Technology that is the Problem especially when you are using an Analog AM/MW Radio to listen to and Analog Signal coming from an "HD" {IBOC} AM/MW Radio Station that also has an "HD" {IBOC} AM/MW Radio Station on both Adjacent Channels : one 10 kHz above; and one 10 kHz below. You will notice the Digital Hash. When this happens and it will for many AM/MW Radio Listeners in the future. Your 'choices' are : 1 - Tune to a different AM/MW Radio Station 2 - Change to FM Radio Listening. 3 - Buy an "HD" {IBOC} Radio and then Listen to your Favorite AM/MW Radio Station in "HD". The AM/MW Radio Stations using the IBOC Technology 'hope' that you will do # 3. FWIW - A couple of the posts that I have read else where have basically said that when the Poster had the Digial Hash problem with their favorite AM/MW Radio Station; and went out and bought a "HD" Radio; the "HD" Radio reception was as good as and usually better sounding than the 'old' Analog AM/MW Radio Station prior to IBOC. - - - Sounds like back to Square-One at a higher cost. For the common {average} AM/MW Radio Listener : at Home; in their Car; or at Work in an Office. Who lives in an Urban Area with good Signal Levels : IBOC as a Mass Media Technology may provide a better Radio Listening Experience. But for those AM/MW Radio Listeners in the Suburbs and Rural Areas with limited Listening Choices and weak Signal Levels : IBOC as a Mass Media Technology may prove to be a Radio Listening Experience they find lacking. FM "HD" Radio and the FM Radio Band Plan are a different matter. For the common {average} FM Radio Listener : IBOC and "HD" FM Radio should provide them a better Radio Listening Experience in all areas : Urban; Suburban and Rural as IBOC is fully adopted and the HD Signal Level is increased to fill-in the Gaps of the Digital Broadcast Signal Coverage. that's my assessment ~ RHF . RHF: HD radio is going to have to do much better than present to get me to listen to it. As I told Eduardo I went to the local Radio Shack for a demo, and receiver couldn't decode it. That was the Rhapsody $100 set. The stations were the local 1kw stations (1400 and 1450 KHZ) and all that was shown is the blinking Blue light. The transmitters are localed about 5 and 10 miles from the Radio Shack location. Now I regularly decode the Radio New Zealand DRM signal with few drop outs using my TEN TEC 320D, as well as the Sackville relay in CANADA which includes Radio Netherlands, Canada, Vatican radio, and TPD Radio which is sent out in 20KHZ stereo! This is at my QTH in Tucson using my home made 25 foot inverted vee. However, DXing from 5 miles away is not a good sign. Plus there are no truly portable HD radios for sale yet. I do most of my listening while hiking or biking. I use a Sony radio to also receive sw while on the go also. I won't be tether to my home or car for local radio. I go to satellite radio first. I have stopped regularly listening 1400 and 1450 because in analog there signal sound terrible due to the 5kHz bandwidth. It reminds me of listening to the telephone music while you are put on hold. In my car (JEEP) I have a Infinity Gold AM stereo and FM stereo and the 1400 station used to sound great in AM stereo, but since they switched to HD I can here the HASH and reduced sound, and have stopped listening. I can't tell any difference on the FM, but I don't have to DX FM to receive it. Ken I |
HD Radio
On Sep 12, 12:57 am, RHF wrote:
On Sep 11, 5:45 pm, wrote: On Sep 11, 6:57 pm, IBOCcrock wrote: Did you notice that WTWP has had their IBUZZ exciter off for days ? Now, I can hear WTRI without buzzing again ! Yeah, I've heard the buzz on some of the DC stations, but thought is was probably due to some noise source local to my neighborhood. There's lots of stray noise on the AM band these days, so I simply ignored the buzz as best I could. If a station was (or stations were) responsible for this, shame on the engineers running the equipment. -Dave Drumheller DD - The Engineers are doing the best that they can with the IBOC Transmission Scheme; which uses reduced Analog Bandwidth and Extended Digital Side Bands. It is the IBOC Technology that is the Problem especially when you are using an Analog AM/MW Radio to listen to and Analog Signal coming from an "HD" {IBOC} AM/MW Radio Station that also has an "HD" {IBOC} AM/MW Radio Station on both Adjacent Channels : one 10 kHz above; and one 10 kHz below. You will notice the Digital Hash. When this happens and it will for many AM/MW Radio Listeners in the future. Your 'choices' are : 1 - Tune to a different AM/MW Radio Station 2 - Change to FM Radio Listening. 3 - Buy an "HD" {IBOC} Radio and then Listen to your Favorite AM/MW Radio Station in "HD". The AM/MW Radio Stations using the IBOC Technology 'hope' that you will do # 3. FWIW - A couple of the posts that I have read else where have basically said that when the Poster had the Digial Hash problem with their favorite AM/MW Radio Station; and went out and bought a "HD" Radio; the "HD" Radio reception was as good as and usually better sounding than the 'old' Analog AM/MW Radio Station prior to IBOC. - - - Sounds like back to Square-One at a higher cost. For the common {average} AM/MW Radio Listener : at Home; in their Car; or at Work in an Office. Who lives in an Urban Area with good Signal Levels : IBOC as a Mass Media Technology may provide a better Radio Listening Experience. But for those AM/MW Radio Listeners in the Suburbs and Rural Areas with limited Listening Choices and weak Signal Levels : IBOC as a Mass Media Technology may prove to be a Radio Listening Experience they find lacking. FM "HD" Radio and the FM Radio Band Plan are a different matter. For the common {average} FM Radio Listener : IBOC and "HD" FM Radio should provide them a better Radio Listening Experience in all areas : Urban; Suburban and Rural as IBOC is fully adopted and the HD Signal Level is increased to fill-in the Gaps of the Digital Broadcast Signal Coverage. that's my assessment ~ RHF . Too bad, RHF - Klsham is not buying into the HD Radio farce, despite your pathetic plees: http://hdradiofarce.blogspot.com/ |
HD Radio
On Sep 12, 12:57 am, RHF wrote:
On Sep 11, 5:45 pm, wrote: On Sep 11, 6:57 pm, IBOCcrock wrote: Did you notice that WTWP has had their IBUZZ exciter off for days ? Now, I can hear WTRI without buzzing again ! Yeah, I've heard the buzz on some of the DC stations, but thought is was probably due to some noise source local to my neighborhood. There's lots of stray noise on the AM band these days, so I simply ignored the buzz as best I could. If a station was (or stations were) responsible for this, shame on the engineers running the equipment. -Dave Drumheller DD - The Engineers are doing the best that they can with the IBOC Transmission Scheme; which uses reduced Analog Bandwidth and Extended Digital Side Bands. It is the IBOC Technology that is the Problem especially when you are using an Analog AM/MW Radio to listen to and Analog Signal coming from an "HD" {IBOC} AM/MW Radio Station that also has an "HD" {IBOC} AM/MW Radio Station on both Adjacent Channels : one 10 kHz above; and one 10 kHz below. You will notice the Digital Hash. When this happens and it will for many AM/MW Radio Listeners in the future. Your 'choices' are : 1 - Tune to a different AM/MW Radio Station 2 - Change to FM Radio Listening. 3 - Buy an "HD" {IBOC} Radio and then Listen to your Favorite AM/MW Radio Station in "HD". The AM/MW Radio Stations using the IBOC Technology 'hope' that you will do # 3. FWIW - A couple of the posts that I have read else where have basically said that when the Poster had the Digial Hash problem with their favorite AM/MW Radio Station; and went out and bought a "HD" Radio; the "HD" Radio reception was as good as and usually better sounding than the 'old' Analog AM/MW Radio Station prior to IBOC. - - - Sounds like back to Square-One at a higher cost. For the common {average} AM/MW Radio Listener : at Home; in their Car; or at Work in an Office. Who lives in an Urban Area with good Signal Levels : IBOC as a Mass Media Technology may provide a better Radio Listening Experience. But for those AM/MW Radio Listeners in the Suburbs and Rural Areas with limited Listening Choices and weak Signal Levels : IBOC as a Mass Media Technology may prove to be a Radio Listening Experience they find lacking. FM "HD" Radio and the FM Radio Band Plan are a different matter. For the common {average} FM Radio Listener : IBOC and "HD" FM Radio should provide them a better Radio Listening Experience in all areas : Urban; Suburban and Rural as IBOC is fully adopted and the HD Signal Level is increased to fill-in the Gaps of the Digital Broadcast Signal Coverage. that's my assessment ~ RHF . "When this happens and it will for many AM/MW Radio Listeners in the future" Won't last for long - AM-HD is DOA: http://hdradiofarce.blogspot.com/ |
HD Radio
David wrote: On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 14:09:05 -0700, wrote: Your old radios will still work; the high-definition (HD) signal that's currently in use is compatible with good old-fashioned AM receivers. This is because the digital information is placed (in frequency) above and below the analog signal. There are couple of HD stations here in the Washington DC area, and on any AM receiver I've used so far, including my antique tube radios, this digital "hash" has not bleed through to the audio stages. When accurately tuned to an HD station, the voice and music sound just as it always has. That's total BS. All the highs are gone. I seem to have noticed that to some extent on WLS 890 out of Chicago. Perhaps Mr. Maus, who is closer in can give us his experience with that. |
HD Radio
|
HD Radio
On Sep 12, 8:54 am, dxAce wrote:
I seem to have noticed that to some extent on WLS 890 out of Chicago. Perhaps Mr. Maus, who is closer in can give us his experience with that. That's most likely because you're trying to squeese "hi-fi" into +/- 5 khz worth of bandwith. It's why your audio's going to sound like a crunched up Real-Audio stream. http://www.nrscstandards.org/DRB/Non...tal_Report.pdf Stephanie Weil New York City, USA |
HD Radio
dxAce wrote:
I seem to have noticed that to some extent on WLS 890 out of Chicago. Perhaps Mr. Maus, who is closer in can give us his experience with that. Not really. Too much digital noise at my location for an accurate read. |
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