On Sep 28, 7:50 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Roadie" wrote in message

ups.com...



There would be no audience statistics that showed whether night HD was
good
or bad, just as there are none for daytime operation.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There are no listener or audience statistics for radio stations? How
in the world do radio stations determine market share, sell
advertising, etc., then?

The effect of HD can not be measured; radio ratings vary considerably due to
competitive situations, the normal statistical wobble or error of a poll and
there is no way to tell which reason of many is affecting ratings. Since the
HD1 channel of every FM is a simulcast of the analog channel, there is no
way to distinguish it from the analog product in the ratings; AM has no
secondary channels so there is going to be no difference in ratings for an
HD or non-HD station. So far, in this early stage, there is no measurement
of HD 2 channels although in the People Meter, such channels will encode for
Arbitron separately and will then be measurable.

Take your People Meter and suck on it.

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:15:12 -0400, Ron Hardin
wrote:

Rfburns wrote:

Does anyone know of a broadcaster who's turned off their AM HD since
nighttime operation started?

Nobody in Columbus Ohio is broadcasting HD at night, with about 3 stations
with it in the day. WOSU 820 WTVN 610 WCOL 1230 (or whatever they're
calling themselves now).

Actually WCOL might be using it but nobody would be able to tell, at night.
Nobody can hear it.

They should sound killer within 15 or 20 miles of the transmitter.

http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine....10089&sHours=U

On Sep 28, 9:17 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Roadie" wrote in message

ps.com...





On Sep 28, 10:43 am, Rfburns wrote:
On Sep 28, 10:31 am, Steve wrote:

On Sep 28, 10:22 am, Rfburns wrote:

Does anyone know of a broadcaster who's turned off their AM HD since
nighttime operation started?

I don't. Why do you think they'd be turning it off now when they just
started night time AM HD broadcasts?

Maybe cause nobody is listening? Or, possibly interference
complaints? Makes sense to me.

Yeah, I'm puzzled at your question as well. If radio stations have
just started turning on HD why would they turn it back off again?
They won't have meaningful audience statistics to base a decision on
for several months.

There would be no audience statistics that showed whether night HD was good
or bad, just as there are none for daytime operation.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

d'Eduardo,

Since the vast majority of AM/MW Radio Listeners still have
Analog "Only" AM/MW Rados -and- Since Nightime IBOC
Broadcasting makes Analog "HD" Radio Painful to Listen to :
Expect the numbers of Nightime AM/MW Radio Listeners
to start Dropping as more and more AM/MW Radio Stations
begin IBOC Broadcasting at Night.

The Tombstone of AM/MW Radio does not read "RIP"
it reads "IBOC" ~ RHF

Once Again I Ask Myself : What IBOC ?
All I See Is The Blinking Blue Light ! ~ RHF
In That Distant Land* Where IBOC Fears To Go :
Life Exists and Radio Listeners Live Beyond the 10mv/m Contour.
* Twain Harte, CA -USA-

David wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:15:12 -0400, Ron Hardin
wrote:

Rfburns wrote:

Does anyone know of a broadcaster who's turned off their AM HD since
nighttime operation started?

Nobody in Columbus Ohio is broadcasting HD at night, with about 3 stations
with it in the day. WOSU 820 WTVN 610 WCOL 1230 (or whatever they're
calling themselves now).

Actually WCOL might be using it but nobody would be able to tell, at night.
Nobody can hear it.

They should sound killer within 15 or 20 miles of the transmitter.

http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine....10089&sHours=U

No, the limiting thing is what else you can hear, not what
their power contours are. There's a thousand skywaves on the
frequency just as strong, at night.

That's the benefit of having a clear channel and contour protection, which
no longer applies on most frequencies.
--


On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

On Sep 29, 8:32 am, David wrote:
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 06:56:42 -0400, Ron Hardin

No, the limiting thing is what else you can hear, not what
their power contours are. There's a thousand skywaves on the
frequency just as strong, at night. That's the benefit
of having a clear channel and contour protection, which
no longer applies on most frequencies.

I'm very familiar with the graveyard freqs. I enjoy listening to KOY
at night when I'm in Tempe. They have a pretty much identical setup
as the Columbus station.


Ya know, Hybrid Digital Radio has an option for 20 kilohertz wide
channels (the center 10 for AM, and the adjoining 5 kHz sidebands for
HD).

If the stations simply switched from 30 kHz mode to 20 kHz mode during
nighttime operation, that would help minimize interference to the
skywaves.

(But no the FCC lackeys never thought about that. Dummies.)

On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 06:56:42 -0400, Ron Hardin
wrote:

David wrote:

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:15:12 -0400, Ron Hardin
wrote:

Rfburns wrote:

Does anyone know of a broadcaster who's turned off their AM HD since
nighttime operation started?

Nobody in Columbus Ohio is broadcasting HD at night, with about 3 stations
with it in the day. WOSU 820 WTVN 610 WCOL 1230 (or whatever they're
calling themselves now).

Actually WCOL might be using it but nobody would be able to tell, at night.
Nobody can hear it.

They should sound killer within 15 or 20 miles of the transmitter.

http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine....10089&sHours=U

No, the limiting thing is what else you can hear, not what
their power contours are. There's a thousand skywaves on the
frequency just as strong, at night.

That's the benefit of having a clear channel and contour protection, which
no longer applies on most frequencies.

I'm very familiar with the graveyard freqs. I enjoy listening to KOY
at night when I'm in Tempe. They have a pretty much identical setup
as the Columbus station.

On Sep 28, 7:50 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Roadie" wrote in message

ups.com...



There would be no audience statistics that showed whether night HD was
good
or bad, just as there are none for daytime operation.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There are no listener or audience statistics for radio stations? How
in the world do radio stations determine market share, sell
advertising, etc., then?

The effect of HD can not be measured; radio ratings vary considerably due to
competitive situations, the normal statistical wobble or error of a poll and
there is no way to tell which reason of many is affecting ratings. Since the
HD1 channel of every FM is a simulcast of the analog channel, there is no
way to distinguish it from the analog product in the ratings; AM has no
secondary channels so there is going to be no difference in ratings for an
HD or non-HD station. So far, in this early stage, there is no measurement
of HD 2 channels although in the People Meter, such channels will encode for
Arbitron separately and will then be measurable.

The point isn't trying to use statistics to point a finger at HD, but
rather to use them to determine whether the channels are attracting a
sufficient audience. That's all those numbers are really good for.

"Roadie" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 28, 7:50 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Roadie" wrote in message

ups.com...



There would be no audience statistics that showed whether night HD was
good
or bad, just as there are none for daytime operation.- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

There are no listener or audience statistics for radio stations? How
in the world do radio stations determine market share, sell
advertising, etc., then?

The effect of HD can not be measured; radio ratings vary considerably due
to
competitive situations, the normal statistical wobble or error of a poll
and
there is no way to tell which reason of many is affecting ratings. Since
the
HD1 channel of every FM is a simulcast of the analog channel, there is no
way to distinguish it from the analog product in the ratings; AM has no
secondary channels so there is going to be no difference in ratings for
an
HD or non-HD station. So far, in this early stage, there is no
measurement
of HD 2 channels although in the People Meter, such channels will encode
for
Arbitron separately and will then be measurable.

The point isn't trying to use statistics to point a finger at HD, but
rather to use them to determine whether the channels are attracting a
sufficient audience. That's all those numbers are really good for.


The main purpose of FM HD is to provide digital main channel audio and
robust texting; the digital audio is the only enhancement for AM of
significance. Simulcasts are not measured separately in radio ratings.

On Sep 29, 12:51 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Roadie" wrote in message

ups.com...





On Sep 28, 7:50 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Roadie" wrote in message

roups.com...

There would be no audience statistics that showed whether night HD was
good
or bad, just as there are none for daytime operation.- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

There are no listener or audience statistics for radio stations? How
in the world do radio stations determine market share, sell
advertising, etc., then?

The effect of HD can not be measured; radio ratings vary considerably due
to
competitive situations, the normal statistical wobble or error of a poll
and
there is no way to tell which reason of many is affecting ratings. Since
the
HD1 channel of every FM is a simulcast of the analog channel, there is no
way to distinguish it from the analog product in the ratings; AM has no
secondary channels so there is going to be no difference in ratings for
an
HD or non-HD station. So far, in this early stage, there is no
measurement
of HD 2 channels although in the People Meter, such channels will encode
for
Arbitron separately and will then be measurable.

The point isn't trying to use statistics to point a finger at HD, but
rather to use them to determine whether the channels are attracting a
sufficient audience. That's all those numbers are really good for.

The main purpose of FM HD is to provide digital main channel audio and
robust texting; the digital audio is the only enhancement for AM of
significance. Simulcasts are not measured separately in radio ratings.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And what reason do we have to think you're telling the truth THIS time?

On Sep 28, 4:50 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Roadie" wrote in message

ups.com...



There would be no audience statistics that showed whether night HD was
good
or bad, just as there are none for daytime operation.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There are no listener or audience statistics for radio stations? How
in the world do radio stations determine market share, sell
advertising, etc., then?

The effect of HD can not be measured; radio ratings vary considerably due to
competitive situations, the normal statistical wobble or error of a poll and
there is no way to tell which reason of many is affecting ratings. Since the
HD1 channel of every FM is a simulcast of the analog channel, there is no
way to distinguish it from the analog product in the ratings; AM has no
secondary channels so there is going to be no difference in ratings for an
HD or non-HD station. So far, in this early stage, there is no measurement
of HD 2 channels although in the People Meter, such channels will encode for
Arbitron separately and will then be measurable.

In theory, the FCC shouldn't care about the Arbitron, i.e. it is not a
significant measurement of concern to the FCC. The FCC should be
concerned about the quality of the signal. OK, OK, I live in a dream
world.....