|
We've all probably heard moon bounce before
and just assumed it was the signal taking two paths around the world
when we heard the echo. This moon bounce is much more plausible I think. |
We've all probably heard moon bounce before
David wrote: and just assumed it was the signal taking two paths around the world when we heard the echo. This moon bounce is much more plausible I think. Nah, the long path echo probability is much more plausible. dxAce Michigan USA Drake R7, R8, R8A and R8B 70' and 200' wires And as always, don't do business with the Huntington Investment Company, in particular a fellow named Joseph Klein. |
We've all probably heard moon bounce before
On Jan 22, 3:00*pm, dxAce wrote:
Nah, the long path echo probability is much more plausible. dxAce Michigan USA Drake R7, R8, R8A and R8B 70' and 200' wires And as always, don't do business with the Huntington Investment Company, in particular a fellow named Joseph Klein. You bring up an interesting point Ace - I did get a continuous signal here and couldn't decide whether it was long path and short path at the same time, or whether I was actually getting the moon bounce? Food for thought! You been burnt by the Huntington Investment Company Ace? In my early years of retirement I also went through a few sharks. I learn't the hard way and now manage my investment myself = only way to go = good luck! John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa South 33 d 47 m 32 s, East 20 d 07 m 32 s RX Icom IC-756 PRO III with MW mods Drake SW8 & ERGO software Sony 7600D, GE SRIII, Redsun RP2100 BW XCR 30, Sangean 803A. Antenna's RF Systems DX 1 Pro Mk II, Datong AD-270 Kiwa MW Loop, PAORDT Roelof mini-whip http://www.dxing.info/about/dxers/plimmer.dx |
We've all probably heard moon bounce before
|
We've all probably heard moon bounce before
dxAce wrote:
David wrote: and just assumed it was the signal taking two paths around the world when we heard the echo. This moon bounce is much more plausible I think. Nah, the long path echo probability is much more plausible. dxAce Michigan USA Drake R7, R8, R8A and R8B 70' and 200' wires And as always, don't do business with the Huntington Investment Company, in particular a fellow named Joseph Klein. The delay, even via long circumnavigation, is too short to account for some echoes I've heard. I especially remember such an echo when listening to the Caribbean in Texas in the morning. |
We've all probably heard moon bounce before
On Jan 22, 6:47*am, David wrote:
dxAce wrote: David wrote: and just assumed it was the signal taking two paths around the world when we heard the echo. *This moon bounce is much more plausible I think. Nah, the long path echo probability is much more plausible. dxAce Michigan USA Drake R7, R8, R8A and R8B 70' and 200' wires And as always, don't do business with the Huntington Investment Company, in particular a fellow named Joseph Klein. - The delay, even via long circumnavigation, is too short - to account for some echoes I've heard. * - I especially remember such an echo when listening to - the Caribbean in Texas in the morning. David - Now that's a unique possibility*. ~ RHF * First Hop combined with a Luner Echo. |
We've all probably heard moon bounce before
On Jan 22, 9:47 am, David wrote:
dxAce wrote: David wrote: and just assumed it was the signal taking two paths around the world when we heard the echo. This moon bounce is much more plausible I think. Nah, the long path echo probability is much more plausible. dxAce Michigan USA Drake R7, R8, R8A and R8B 70' and 200' wires And as always, don't do business with the Huntington Investment Company, in particular a fellow named Joseph Klein. The delay, even via long circumnavigation, is too short to account for some echoes I've heard. I especially remember such an echo when listening to the Caribbean in Texas in the morning. There is something know as "Long Delayed Echo" where it appears that signals get trapped in a duct like event in the ionosphere and make several round the world trips. At HF very few signals have the power to be detectable via moon bounce. Think about it, 2.5MW aimed at the moon with a electronic steerable antenna. There are some guys in Oz (Australia) that are detecting US UHF TV carriers via moon bounce. Super high gain antennas with very good front end, at the antenna, amps. Some LDE stufff. http://www.df5ai.net/Material/articles5.html http://www.df5ai.net/ArticlesDL/LEchoes%28E%29.pdf When I was a kid, about 5,, my parents where making a trip to eastern Kentucky to visit their parents. My folks could tot stomach "Hill Billy" music so mom was always tuning the MW radio looking for something to listen to. This was late on a spring Friday afternoon. She tuned in a station that had a pronounced echo. The delay was significant enough for my parents to talk about it. The main signal was strong but the echo had the common sky wave comb filter effect. After maybe ten minutes the echo just fluttered away leaving a strong signal that we listened to for the next hour and a half. It could have been something in the station patched wrong like a direct and delayed audio path via a tape deck. But it has been too many years and my parents, no in their late 80's, no longer remember the event. I wish I had a recording of it. The delay was longer then a syllable, but shorter then a word like 'butter" The echo would come in at the second "T". It shifted around somewhat in the delay as well. 51 years is a long time and while I don't trust many of my memories from that time, I do trust this one because it was so odd. Dad was a mechanical engineer and had more then a passing knowledge of and interest in electronics. That event is etched in my mind. It was the first time my dad didn't have a answer. Moon bounce of the NAVSPASUR: http://www.itr-datanet.com/%7Epe1itr/navspasur.html Moon bounce of US UHF TV stations: http://www.geocities.com/toddemslie/moonbounce_DXTV.html Terry |
We've all probably heard moon bounce before
On Jan 22, 9:37 am, wrote:
On Jan 22, 3:00 pm, dxAce wrote: Nah, the long path echo probability is much more plausible. dxAce Michigan USA Drake R7, R8, R8A and R8B 70' and 200' wires And as always, don't do business with the Huntington Investment Company, in particular a fellow named Joseph Klein. You bring up an interesting point Ace - I did get a continuous signal here and couldn't decide whether it was long path and short path at the same time, or whether I was actually getting the moon bounce? Food for thought! You been burnt by the Huntington Investment Company Ace? In my early years of retirement I also went through a few sharks. I learn't the hard way and now manage my investment myself = only way to go = good luck! John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa South 33 d 47 m 32 s, East 20 d 07 m 32 s RX Icom IC-756 PRO III with MW mods Drake SW8 & ERGO software Sony 7600D, GE SRIII, Redsun RP2100 BW XCR 30, Sangean 803A. Antenna's RF Systems DX 1 Pro Mk II, Datong AD-270 Kiwa MW Loop, PAORDT Roelof mini-whiphttp://www.dxing.info/about/dxers/plimmer.dx John, if you are into building your own stuff you may wish to consider building a variation of the PA0RDT min-whip that Dallas Lankford came up with.. http://www.kongsfjord.no/dl/Antennas...0Complementary %20Push-Pull%20Output%20Active%20Whip%20Antennas%20II.pdf I live very close, within three miles, to two MW stations that drive many active antennas, including the original PA0RDT mini-whip into overload. Dallas's version is bullet proof. Any IMD products are covered by the natural noise floor. Terry |
We've all probably heard moon bounce before
On Jan 22, 5:41*pm, wrote: On Jan 22, 9:37 am, wrote: You bring up an interesting point Ace - I did get a continuous signal here and couldn't decide whether it was long path and short path at the same time, or whether I was actually getting the moon bounce? Food for thought! John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa Terry wrote John, if you are into building your own stuff you may wish to consider building a variation of the PA0RDT min-whip that Dallas Lankford came up with.. http://www.kongsfjord.no/dl/Antennas...0Complementary %20Push-Pull%20Output%20Active%20Whip%20Antennas%20II.pdf I live very close, within three miles, *to two *MW stations that drive many active antennas, including the original PA0RDT mini-whip into overload. Dallas's version is bullet proof. Any IMD products are covered by the natural noise floor. Terry- Hide quoted text - Terry, Prof. Dallas is one of our greatest hobby experts but I think my RF Systems DX1 Pro MkII will outperform his designs. The DX1 is also bullet proof against close by stations, it has the highest IP3 point of any antenna on the market. As for the PAORDT mini-whip, it is a piece of junk that I should take off my listing = poor pickup and sucks up every bit of noise in the neighbourhood. As for DIY, if I pick up a soldering iron I will do myself serious damage and burn the house down = not an option for a 70 ear old dodo! John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa South 33 d 47 m 32 s, East 20 d 07 m 32 s RX Icom IC-756 PRO III with MW mods Drake SW8 & ERGO software Sony 7600D, GE SRIII, Redsun RP2100 BW XCR 30, Sangean 803A. Antenna's RF Systems DX 1 Pro Mk II, Datong AD-270 Kiwa MW Loop, PAORDT Roelof mini-whip http://www.dxing.info/about/dxers/plimmer.dx |
We've all probably heard moon bounce before
On Jan 22, 5:32 pm, wrote:
On Jan 22, 5:41 pm, wrote: On Jan 22, 9:37 am, wrote: You bring up an interesting point Ace - I did get a continuous signal here and couldn't decide whether it was long path and short path at the same time, or whether I was actually getting the moon bounce? Food for thought! John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa Terry wrote John, if you are into building your own stuff you may wish to consider building a variation of the PA0RDT min-whip that Dallas Lankford came up with.. http://www.kongsfjord.no/dl/Antennas...0Complementary %20Push-Pull%20Output%20Active%20Whip%20Antennas%20II.pdf I live very close, within three miles, to two MW stations that drive many active antennas, including the original PA0RDT mini-whip into overload. Dallas's version is bullet proof. Any IMD products are covered by the natural noise floor. Terry- Hide quoted text - Terry, Prof. Dallas is one of our greatest hobby experts but I think my RF Systems DX1 Pro MkII will outperform his designs. The DX1 is also bullet proof against close by stations, it has the highest IP3 point of any antenna on the market. As for the PAORDT mini-whip, it is a piece of junk that I should take off my listing = poor pickup and sucks up every bit of noise in the neighbourhood. As for DIY, if I pick up a soldering iron I will do myself serious damage and burn the house down = not an option for a 70 ear old dodo! John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa South 33 d 47 m 32 s, East 20 d 07 m 32 s RX Icom IC-756 PRO III with MW mods Drake SW8 & ERGO software Sony 7600D, GE SRIII, Redsun RP2100 BW XCR 30, Sangean 803A. Antenna's RF Systems DX 1 Pro Mk II, Datong AD-270 Kiwa MW Loop, PAORDT Roelof mini-whiphttp://www.dxing.info/about/dxers/plimmer.dx Yea, I can understand the risk of soldering...... I fell at work back in April of 2006 and manged in less then a second to wrack my right knee and right elbow. The Workers Compensation "gatekeeper" MD ingoted my complaints about increasing numbness and inability to control my right hand. I am right hand dominate. Finally in August of 2007 he decided he better send me to a hand/elbow surgeon because I couldn't hold anything in my right hand. After some attempts as using a brace to relieve the stress to allow the elbow to heal, the surgeon told me surgery was the only option. So in early November 2007 I had elbow and arm surgery. The main nerve that controls the fingers was begin pinched by two damaged muscle sheaths. I have one nice 4" scar across my arm and a 4" scar along my elbow over the funny bone. The upshot of all of this is I can't solder without endangering me, and everyone around me. I desperately needed a specially wired 3.5mm (1/8") male to male jumper. I managed to get it done but it was ugly and the lack of control in my right hand made holding a 700 degree F soldering iron interesting. When my wife got back from her mom's she resoldered it and forbade me from even thinking about soldering until and unless I get fine motor control back! It is very frustrating as I have building things since I was 9 and here I can't only not solder, but I can not build the new RF Entry Bulkhead I want. It would be insanely reckless, even by my standards, to handle power tools. From what the physical therapy (PT = pain and torture) team and the surgeon tell me I will likely never regain enough fine motor control to work with surface mount components and will have other "continuing issues". Bummer. I am very lucky because my wife is very 'crafty' and I have some friends who have pitched in, often on very short notice, to help me with my odd antenna needs. Terry |
We've all probably heard moon bounce before
On Jan 22, 9:32*am, wrote:
On Jan 22, 5:41*pm, wrote: On Jan 22, 9:37 am, wrote: You bring up an interesting point Ace - I did get a continuous signal here and couldn't decide whether it was long path and short path at the same time, or whether I was actually getting the moon bounce? Food for thought! John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa Terry wrote John, if you are into building your own stuff you may wish to consider building a variation of the PA0RDT min-whip that Dallas Lankford came up with.. http://www.kongsfjord.no/dl/Antennas...0Complementary %20Push-Pull%20Output%20Active%20Whip%20Antennas%20II.pdf I live very close, within three miles, *to two *MW stations that drive many active antennas, including the original PA0RDT mini-whip into overload. Dallas's version is bullet proof. Any IMD products are covered by the natural noise floor. Terry- Hide quoted text - Terry, Prof. Dallas is one of our greatest hobby experts but I think my RF Systems DX1 Pro MkII will outperform his designs. The DX1 is also bullet proof against close by stations, it has the highest IP3 point of any antenna on the market. - As for the PAORDT mini-whip, it is a piece of junk - that I should take off my listing = poor pickup and - sucks up every bit of noise in the neighbourhood. As for DIY, if I pick up a soldering iron I will do myself serious damage and burn the house down = not an option for a 70 ear old dodo! John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa South 33 d 47 m 32 s, East 20 d 07 m 32 s RX Icom IC-756 PRO III with MW mods Drake SW8 & ERGO software Sony 7600D, GE SRIII, Redsun RP2100 BW XCR 30, Sangean 803A. Antenna's RF Systems DX 1 Pro Mk II, Datong AD-270 Kiwa MW Loop, PAORDT Roelof mini-whiphttp://www.dxing.info/about/dxers/plimmer.dx- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - JP, Well in your case and many others the PA0RDT Active Mini-Whip Antenna might make a good Noise Sense Antenna to use with a Noise Cancelling Antenna set-up. PA0RDT-Mini-Whip {Active} Antenna - Inch-per-Inch - It Works ! http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...c4666783b0a2f6 Which Noise Cancelling Antenna Would You Choose ? http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...8d8e13b3edab85 FWIW - I still think that the Active Mini-Whip Antenna performs better than the TINY-TENNA Active (Amplified) Antenna. http://www.hamradiofun.com/tinytenna.htm iane ~ RHF |
We've all probably heard moon bounce before
wrote:
On Jan 22, 5:41 pm, wrote: On Jan 22, 9:37 am, wrote: You bring up an interesting point Ace - I did get a continuous signal here and couldn't decide whether it was long path and short path at the same time, or whether I was actually getting the moon bounce? Food for thought! John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa Terry wrote John, if you are into building your own stuff you may wish to consider building a variation of the PA0RDT min-whip that Dallas Lankford came up with.. http://www.kongsfjord.no/dl/Antennas...0Complementary %20Push-Pull%20Output%20Active%20Whip%20Antennas%20II.pdf I live very close, within three miles, to two MW stations that drive many active antennas, including the original PA0RDT mini-whip into overload. Dallas's version is bullet proof. Any IMD products are covered by the natural noise floor. Terry- Hide quoted text - Terry, Prof. Dallas is one of our greatest hobby experts but I think my RF Systems DX1 Pro MkII will outperform his designs. The DX1 is also bullet proof against close by stations, it has the highest IP3 point of any antenna on the market. As for the PAORDT mini-whip, it is a piece of junk that I should take off my listing = poor pickup and sucks up every bit of noise in the neighbourhood. As for DIY, if I pick up a soldering iron I will do myself serious damage and burn the house down = not an option for a 70 ear old dodo! John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa South 33 d 47 m 32 s, East 20 d 07 m 32 s RX Icom IC-756 PRO III with MW mods Drake SW8 & ERGO software Sony 7600D, GE SRIII, Redsun RP2100 BW XCR 30, Sangean 803A. Antenna's RF Systems DX 1 Pro Mk II, Datong AD-270 Kiwa MW Loop, PAORDT Roelof mini-whip http://www.dxing.info/about/dxers/plimmer.dx Thy some MagEyes, you'll be reworking SMT in no time. |
We've all probably heard moon bounce before
wrote:
On Jan 22, 5:32 pm, wrote: On Jan 22, 5:41 pm, wrote: On Jan 22, 9:37 am, wrote: You bring up an interesting point Ace - I did get a continuous signal here and couldn't decide whether it was long path and short path at the same time, or whether I was actually getting the moon bounce? Food for thought! John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa Terry wrote John, if you are into building your own stuff you may wish to consider building a variation of the PA0RDT min-whip that Dallas Lankford came up with.. http://www.kongsfjord.no/dl/Antennas...0Complementary %20Push-Pull%20Output%20Active%20Whip%20Antennas%20II.pdf I live very close, within three miles, to two MW stations that drive many active antennas, including the original PA0RDT mini-whip into overload. Dallas's version is bullet proof. Any IMD products are covered by the natural noise floor. Terry- Hide quoted text - Terry, Prof. Dallas is one of our greatest hobby experts but I think my RF Systems DX1 Pro MkII will outperform his designs. The DX1 is also bullet proof against close by stations, it has the highest IP3 point of any antenna on the market. As for the PAORDT mini-whip, it is a piece of junk that I should take off my listing = poor pickup and sucks up every bit of noise in the neighbourhood. As for DIY, if I pick up a soldering iron I will do myself serious damage and burn the house down = not an option for a 70 ear old dodo! John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa South 33 d 47 m 32 s, East 20 d 07 m 32 s RX Icom IC-756 PRO III with MW mods Drake SW8 & ERGO software Sony 7600D, GE SRIII, Redsun RP2100 BW XCR 30, Sangean 803A. Antenna's RF Systems DX 1 Pro Mk II, Datong AD-270 Kiwa MW Loop, PAORDT Roelof mini-whiphttp://www.dxing.info/about/dxers/plimmer.dx Yea, I can understand the risk of soldering...... I fell at work back in April of 2006 and manged in less then a second to wrack my right knee and right elbow. The Workers Compensation "gatekeeper" MD ingoted my complaints about increasing numbness and inability to control my right hand. I am right hand dominate. Finally in August of 2007 he decided he better send me to a hand/elbow surgeon because I couldn't hold anything in my right hand. After some attempts as using a brace to relieve the stress to allow the elbow to heal, the surgeon told me surgery was the only option. So in early November 2007 I had elbow and arm surgery. The main nerve that controls the fingers was begin pinched by two damaged muscle sheaths. I have one nice 4" scar across my arm and a 4" scar along my elbow over the funny bone. The upshot of all of this is I can't solder without endangering me, and everyone around me. I desperately needed a specially wired 3.5mm (1/8") male to male jumper. I managed to get it done but it was ugly and the lack of control in my right hand made holding a 700 degree F soldering iron interesting. When my wife got back from her mom's she resoldered it and forbade me from even thinking about soldering until and unless I get fine motor control back! It is very frustrating as I have building things since I was 9 and here I can't only not solder, but I can not build the new RF Entry Bulkhead I want. It would be insanely reckless, even by my standards, to handle power tools. From what the physical therapy (PT = pain and torture) team and the surgeon tell me I will likely never regain enough fine motor control to work with surface mount components and will have other "continuing issues". Bummer. I am very lucky because my wife is very 'crafty' and I have some friends who have pitched in, often on very short notice, to help me with my odd antenna needs. Terry You can teach the left hand to do anything the right could do. I practice this (eating and writing), even though both hands work. |
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