EBay and Shortwave (minor rant)
 

Hey all,

A friend of mine helped me to put a couple of radios on EBay over the
weekend. He used Vendio, and listed them both under "Consumer
Electronics\Radios: Ham, CB etc\Shortwave". The 2 auctions were set
to start Sunday at 9:00pm. Today he discovers that they didn't start
because EBay says you have to allow PayPal for certain categories of
items.

WTF??

My friend won't take PayPal because it costs extra. He has had no
problem with bank checks and money orders in past auctions. I thought
maybe it's because electronics cost a bit more, but my friend usually
sells high-end guitars and other instruments, so cost doesn't seem to
be it. Then my cynical side kicked in, and I figure EBay must be
getting kickbacks from PayPal. Does anyone know the real story, or
have ideas?

Anyway, sorry for the rant...

DWP

EBay and Shortwave (minor rant)
 

CelticDude wrote:
Hey all,

A friend of mine helped me to put a couple of radios on EBay over the
weekend. He used Vendio, and listed them both under "Consumer
Electronics\Radios: Ham, CB etc\Shortwave". The 2 auctions were set
to start Sunday at 9:00pm. Today he discovers that they didn't start
because EBay says you have to allow PayPal for certain categories of
items.

WTF??

My friend won't take PayPal because it costs extra. He has had no
problem with bank checks and money orders in past auctions. I thought
maybe it's because electronics cost a bit more, but my friend usually
sells high-end guitars and other instruments, so cost doesn't seem to
be it. Then my cynical side kicked in, and I figure EBay must be
getting kickbacks from PayPal. Does anyone know the real story, or
have ideas?


ebay owns PayPal. They're highly motivated to drive users to allow
Paypal for a couple of reasons. One is the access to personal
information that PayPal use permits. Information harvesting, collation
and sales is a profit center for most businesses, today.

Second, PayPal itself is a profit center for eBay. And not always in
a good way.

Do a websearch for some of the horror stories. It's not pretty.

EBay and Shortwave (minor rant)
 

On May 5, 4:07*pm, "MWH" wrote:

- eBay owns Paypal. Literally.

and part of Craig's List Too !

About eBay Inc.
http://news.ebay.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=305980
Founded in 1995, eBay Inc. connects hundreds of millions of people
around the world every day, empowering them to explore new
opportunities and innovate together. eBay Inc. does this by providing
the Internet platforms of choice for global commerce, payments and
communications. Since its inception, eBay Inc. has expanded to include
some of the strongest brands in the world, including eBay, PayPal,
Skype, StubHub, Shopping.com, and others. eBay Inc. is headquartered
in San Jose, California.




"CelticDude" wrote in message

...



Hey all,

A friend of mine helped me to put a couple of radios on EBay over the
weekend. *He used Vendio, and listed them both under "Consumer
Electronics\Radios: Ham, CB etc\Shortwave". *The 2 auctions were set
to start Sunday at 9:00pm. *Today he discovers that they didn't start
because EBay says you have to allow PayPal for certain categories *of
items.

WTF??

My friend won't take PayPal because it costs extra. *He has had no
problem with bank checks and money orders in past auctions. *I thought
maybe it's because electronics cost a bit more, but my friend usually
sells high-end guitars and other instruments, so cost doesn't seem to
be it. *Then my cynical side kicked in, and I figure EBay must be
getting kickbacks from PayPal. *Does anyone know the real story, or
have ideas?

Anyway, sorry for the rant...

DWP- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

EBay and Shortwave (minor rant)
 

"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
Second, PayPal itself is a profit center for eBay. And not always in a
good way.

Do a websearch for some of the horror stories. It's not pretty.


OTOH, I won't buy anything on eBay unless the seller takes PayPal - and I
buy lots of stuff on eBay. Going to a bank/post office to get a draft/MO
is too much hassle.

This is the 21st century. If you don't take electronic payments, I'm not
interested in buying from you.

EBay and Shortwave (minor rant)
 

Thanks for all the replies. I didn't know that PayPal was so closely
connected to EBay; that explains a lot. Ironically, as a buyer, I
also will not generally bid on an item unless they take PayPal, as I
feel it's the safest bet for me. OTOH I do not have PayPal connected
to a bank account. I have heard of PayPal taking money out of a bank
account if they decide you owe them. At least with a credit card, I
have some recourse beyond PayPal.

However, this policy of EBay's still strikes me as incredibly
arbitrary. Why for some categories, and not others. My radios are
listed under Everything ElseOther. Very annoying.

DWP

EBay and Shortwave (minor rant)
 

D Peter Maus wrote:


ebay owns PayPal. They're highly motivated to drive users to allow
Paypal for a couple of reasons. One is the access to personal
information that PayPal use permits. Information harvesting, collation
and sales is a profit center for most businesses, today.

Second, PayPal itself is a profit center for eBay. And not always in
a good way.

Do a websearch for some of the horror stories. It's not pretty.


In European community, everybody has an IBAN/BIC set of numbers/codes, so
that you can transfer money for free... (within EG ..)

Marc
--
--
Shortwave transmissions in English, Francais, Nederlands, Deutsch,
Suid-Afrikaans, Chinese, Dansk, Urdu, Cantonese, Greek, Spanish,
Portuguese, ...
http://users.fulladsl.be/spb13810/swlist/ Updated every month or so ....

EBay and Shortwave (minor rant)
 

"CelticDude" wrote in message
...

My friend won't take PayPal because it costs extra.

Not a valid argument. It's well documented that Paypal acceptance increases
average selling prices, way beyond the fees charged. So someone that
doesn't take Paypal is LOSING money. People that refuse to take Paypal are
usually the sellers that have been on the losing end of a dispute. Good,
honest sellers take Paypal if they want to sell their items for as much as
possible.

EBay and Shortwave (minor rant)
 

OTOH, I won't buy anything on eBay unless the seller takes PayPal - and I
buy lots of stuff on eBay. Going to a bank/post office to get a draft/MO
is too much hassle.

This is the 21st century. If you don't take electronic payments, I'm not
interested in buying from you.

Yup-same here. No way as a buyer I'll consider a non-Paypal item. Running to
the bank/post office is a major pain in the ass. Also, Paypal offers me
protection. I had to get them involved after a couple of scumbags wouldn't
ship the radios or just sat on them. Without PP I'd have had no recourse.

Rich

EBay and Shortwave (minor rant)
 

Radioguy wrote:
On May 5, 8:51 pm, "Bob Campbell" wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in ...

Like I said. Read some of the horror stories. And what was required, as
well as how long it took, to get something put right.
There are lots of horror stories for all kinds of things. So what? They
are a tiny fraction of the millions of satisfied users of whatever the
"horror stories" pertain to.

If you think a PO Money Order is a hassle, try getting your money back
after PayPal has cleaned out your checking account.
If you think that is a hassle, try getting your money back after any number
of online scams have "cleaned out your checking account".

What's your point? That **** Sometimes Happens?

Paypal is a very successful and very efficient money broker
operation. The complaints I've read have been of people who decided
to not follow the rules or didn't look into the deal beforehand.
Filed a complaint outside of the required dates. Were surprised by
fees on certain international transactions.

Also I've heard about buyer or seller complaining about a claim going
the wrong way. Usually, after you peel the verbiage back you find the
individual wasn't telling the whole story.



And then there's this. First hand experience. Transaction went
according to plan. Price agreed, item paid for through PayPal. PayPal
account linked to a credit card. Item shipped. Arrived intact. Positive
feedback exchanged.

And then I tried to use the credit card. It was declined. Called the
bank. Over limit. Audit of transactions found that PayPal had taken from
the PayPal account the $32.50 for the transaction. They then deducted
the remaining $400+ in the account. And then billed the account again
for $8,661.40.

At first PayPal denied that such a billing had taken place. That went
on for more than a month. The credit card company got involved and
verified that the transaction had, indeed taken place. Documents were
exchanged. Phone calls were made. Letters written. For more than a year.

Then PayPal insisted that there had been no such account. That the
account had never existed. More documents. More phone calls. More letters.

Then, after 14 months, PayPal announced a clerical error. Refunded
the $8,661.40.

To date, the $400+ balance in the account after the transaction, has
not been returned.

Second experience. This from my g/f (now former) who had an eBay
account for years. She had her PayPal account linked to her bank
account. Ebay item purchased. Transaction completed. Item shipped and
received intact. Positive feedback exchanged.

PayPal cleaned out her bank account. Some $5000.

A former member of this newsgroup makes an eBay purchase of a ham
tranceiver. Pays for the item through PayPal. Receives the item.
Positive feedback exchanged. PayPal sends him a letter of notice that
the seller has filed a non payment claim. e-Mails exchanged, phone calls
made. PayPal deducts a second payment for the item from the PayPal
account. Then a third. Account is closed. PayPal attempts a fourth
deduction from the account. Sends a notice of default demanding payment.

That one took 7 months to straighten out.

I've got more, but you get the idea.

PayPal is an efficient money broker. It is not, however, very
reliable. And it is not as reputable, nor as secure, as other on-line
payment systems. PayPal is quite easy to defraud.

Most on-line security and fraud protection agencies now recommend a
PayPal account NOT be used for on-line transactions. If PayPal account
must be used, they recommend a balance only as large as the transaction
it is to cover. No excess. And no link to one's checking account or
credit card. (My former g/f created a special checking account
exclusively for her PayPal account. There's never more than a couple
hundred bucks in it. Even so, she's had another incident involving
PayPal since we broke up.) Should a fraudulent deduction be made, PayPal
can be very difficult to deal with when recovering funds.




If someone is dumb enough to get themselves involved in an online scam
that "cleans out" their banking account then they are probably ripe
for the picking.

Interesting presumption there. Not everyone who has gotten cleaned
out by PayPal has been involved in an on-line scam. I wasn't. My g/f
wasn't. The former newsgroup member wasn't. The scam was PayPal.


If there was fraudulent use of someones account then
Paypal will reimburse. But if an individual is dumb enough to give
paypal information to someone else then I don't feel at all sorry.

Paying by credit card minimizes that problem in the US because of
limited liability on the part of the credit card holder.


Then, pay by credit card. There are far more systems in place to
recover lost, stolen or misdirected funds than with PayPal.

EBay and Shortwave (minor rant)
 

D Peter Maus wrote:

Radioguy wrote:
On May 5, 8:51 pm, "Bob Campbell" wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in ...

Like I said. Read some of the horror stories. And what was required, as
well as how long it took, to get something put right.
There are lots of horror stories for all kinds of things. So what? They
are a tiny fraction of the millions of satisfied users of whatever the
"horror stories" pertain to.

If you think a PO Money Order is a hassle, try getting your money back
after PayPal has cleaned out your checking account.
If you think that is a hassle, try getting your money back after any number
of online scams have "cleaned out your checking account".

What's your point? That **** Sometimes Happens?

Paypal is a very successful and very efficient money broker
operation. The complaints I've read have been of people who decided
to not follow the rules or didn't look into the deal beforehand.
Filed a complaint outside of the required dates. Were surprised by
fees on certain international transactions.

Also I've heard about buyer or seller complaining about a claim going
the wrong way. Usually, after you peel the verbiage back you find the
individual wasn't telling the whole story.


And then there's this. First hand experience. Transaction went
according to plan. Price agreed, item paid for through PayPal. PayPal
account linked to a credit card. Item shipped. Arrived intact. Positive
feedback exchanged.

And then I tried to use the credit card. It was declined. Called the
bank. Over limit. Audit of transactions found that PayPal had taken from
the PayPal account the $32.50 for the transaction. They then deducted
the remaining $400+ in the account. And then billed the account again
for $8,661.40.

At first PayPal denied that such a billing had taken place. That went
on for more than a month. The credit card company got involved and
verified that the transaction had, indeed taken place. Documents were
exchanged. Phone calls were made. Letters written. For more than a year.

Then PayPal insisted that there had been no such account. That the
account had never existed. More documents. More phone calls. More letters.

Then, after 14 months, PayPal announced a clerical error. Refunded
the $8,661.40.

To date, the $400+ balance in the account after the transaction, has
not been returned.

Second experience. This from my g/f (now former) who had an eBay
account for years. She had her PayPal account linked to her bank
account. Ebay item purchased. Transaction completed. Item shipped and
received intact. Positive feedback exchanged.

PayPal cleaned out her bank account. Some $5000.

A former member of this newsgroup makes an eBay purchase of a ham
tranceiver. Pays for the item through PayPal. Receives the item.
Positive feedback exchanged. PayPal sends him a letter of notice that
the seller has filed a non payment claim. e-Mails exchanged, phone calls
made. PayPal deducts a second payment for the item from the PayPal
account. Then a third. Account is closed. PayPal attempts a fourth
deduction from the account. Sends a notice of default demanding payment.

That one took 7 months to straighten out.

I've got more, but you get the idea.

PayPal is an efficient money broker. It is not, however, very
reliable. And it is not as reputable, nor as secure, as other on-line
payment systems. PayPal is quite easy to defraud.

Most on-line security and fraud protection agencies now recommend a
PayPal account NOT be used for on-line transactions. If PayPal account
must be used, they recommend a balance only as large as the transaction
it is to cover. No excess. And no link to one's checking account or
credit card. (My former g/f created a special checking account
exclusively for her PayPal account. There's never more than a couple
hundred bucks in it. Even so, she's had another incident involving
PayPal since we broke up.) Should a fraudulent deduction be made, PayPal
can be very difficult to deal with when recovering funds.

If someone is dumb enough to get themselves involved in an online scam
that "cleans out" their banking account then they are probably ripe
for the picking.

Interesting presumption there. Not everyone who has gotten cleaned
out by PayPal has been involved in an on-line scam. I wasn't. My g/f
wasn't. The former newsgroup member wasn't. The scam was PayPal.

If there was fraudulent use of someones account then
Paypal will reimburse. But if an individual is dumb enough to give
paypal information to someone else then I don't feel at all sorry.

Paying by credit card minimizes that problem in the US because of
limited liability on the part of the credit card holder.

Then, pay by credit card. There are far more systems in place to
recover lost, stolen or misdirected funds than with PayPal.

Yeah, ain't no damn way I'd link a bank/checking account to PayPal... I can deal with my credit card company, but I'd rather not deal
with PayPal, at least in that regard.

EBay and Shortwave (minor rant)
 

On Mon, 5 May 2008 16:01:08 -0700 (PDT), CelticDude
wrote:

Hey all,

A friend of mine helped me to put a couple of radios on EBay over the
weekend. He used Vendio, and listed them both under "Consumer
Electronics\Radios: Ham, CB etc\Shortwave". The 2 auctions were set
to start Sunday at 9:00pm. Today he discovers that they didn't start
because EBay says you have to allow PayPal for certain categories of
items.

WTF??

My friend won't take PayPal because it costs extra. He has had no
problem with bank checks and money orders in past auctions. I thought
maybe it's because electronics cost a bit more, but my friend usually
sells high-end guitars and other instruments, so cost doesn't seem to
be it. Then my cynical side kicked in, and I figure EBay must be
getting kickbacks from PayPal. Does anyone know the real story, or
have ideas?

Anyway, sorry for the rant...

DWP
No kickback involved. eBay owns PayPal lock stock and barrel. It is
simply a way to extract further money from Ebay sellers by using an
illegal and anticompetitive advantage.

EBay and Shortwave (minor rant)
 

clifto wrote in
:

dxAce wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
Then, pay by credit card. There are far more systems in place to
recover lost, stolen or misdirected funds than with PayPal.

Yeah, ain't no damn way I'd link a bank/checking account to PayPal...
I can deal with my credit card company, but I'd rather not deal with
PayPal, at least in that regard.

Paypal can have access to an account of mine after they post their
entire net worth as bond.


Simply establish an account at a bank where you have no other accounts --
and keep no more than the minimum balance. Make sure it has no overdraft
protection, and link it nowhere else. Besides, it's useful to have such
an account, along with a verified paypal account, when you finally decide
that hamfests and computerfests are dead and you need to sell some of
your own stuff without getting hosed the way you used to get hosed at the
fests or hosed by the local 'ebay selling service'. Like it or not, it's
too late to fight it -- you may as well join it. I can move more stuff
than I ever moved at a hamfest, make more money doing it, and not have to
drive it there and back and sit out in the sun all day keeping it company
while politely answering questions from idiots.

EBay and Shortwave (minor rant)
 

Horror stories indeed!

D Peter Maus wrote:

Most on-line security and fraud protection agencies now recommend a
PayPal account NOT be used for on-line transactions.

Easy for them to say. Unfortunately, as the OP pointed out, eBay says
you MUST use PayPal if you are selling anything under the 'Consumer
Electronics' category (which includes short wave receivers and related
equipment). How long until our friends at eBay decide you must use
PayPal for selling -anything- in any category?

EBay and Shortwave (minor rant)
 

On May 6, 1:01*am, CelticDude wrote:
Hey all,

A friend of mine helped me to put a couple of radios on EBay over the
weekend. *He used Vendio, and listed them both under "Consumer
Electronics\Radios: Ham, CB etc\Shortwave". *The 2 auctions were set
to start Sunday at 9:00pm. *Today he discovers that they didn't start
because EBay says you have to allow PayPal for certain categories *of
items.

WTF??

My friend won't take PayPal because it costs extra. *He has had no
problem with bank checks and money orders in past auctions. *I thought
maybe it's because electronics cost a bit more, but my friend usually
sells high-end guitars and other instruments, so cost doesn't seem to
be it. *Then my cynical side kicked in, and I figure EBay must be
getting kickbacks from PayPal. *Does anyone know the real story, or
have ideas?

Anyway, sorry for the rant...

DWP

So sorry that many of you have had bad PayPal experiences, as here in
Afrika the comming of PayPal has been the best thing for me since
George Washington came to town.

Prior to PayPal I had to go personally to my bank twice for each
transaction and get a bank draft, for which I got zapped $30 for each
one, then I had to send it snail mail and the whole sorry saga took
weeks and many sellers refused to deal with me.

Now I just pay PayPal via my Mastercard and the whole thing takes
seconds and I don't get charged any fees and get the best exchange
rate = lovely!

Never had a problem at all over many transactions.

John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa
South 33 d 47 m 32 s, East 20 d 07 m 32 s
Icom IC-7700, Icom IC-756 PRO III with MW mods
Drake SW8. ERGO software
Sony 7600D, GE SRIII, Redsun RP2100
BW XCR 30, Sangean 803A.
Antenna's RF Systems DX 1 Pro Mk II, Datong AD-270
Kiwa MW Loop.
http://www.dxing.info/about/dxers/plimmer.dx

EBay and Shortwave (minor rant)
 

SamSez wrote:
clifto wrote in
:
Paypal can have access to an account of mine after they post their
entire net worth as bond.

Simply establish an account at a bank where you have no other accounts --
and keep no more than the minimum balance. Make sure it has no overdraft
protection, and link it nowhere else. Besides, it's useful to have such
an account, along with a verified paypal account, when you finally decide
that hamfests and computerfests are dead and you need to sell some of
your own stuff without getting hosed the way you used to get hosed at the
fests or hosed by the local 'ebay selling service'. Like it or not, it's
too late to fight it -- you may as well join it.

Thanks, I'm doing quite well without it. From what I read, I judge that
I'm actually doing much better without it. The deals are good but the
cheats are outrageous.

--
"[i]t's not surprising, then, that they get bitter, they cling to guns or
religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant
sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
-- Barack Obama at a meeting with his equals, the elitist bourgeoisie

EBay and Shortwave (minor rant)
 

On May 10, 12:27*pm, Telamon
wrote:
In article
,





*CelticDude wrote:
Hey all,

A friend of mine helped me to put a couple of radios on EBay over the
weekend. *He used Vendio, and listed them both under "Consumer
Electronics\Radios: Ham, CB etc\Shortwave". *The 2 auctions were set
to start Sunday at 9:00pm. *Today he discovers that they didn't start
because EBay says you have to allow PayPal for certain categories *of
items.

WTF??

My friend won't take PayPal because it costs extra. *He has had no
problem with bank checks and money orders in past auctions. *I thought
maybe it's because electronics cost a bit more, but my friend usually
sells high-end guitars and other instruments, so cost doesn't seem to
be it. *Then my cynical side kicked in, and I figure EBay must be
getting kickbacks from PayPal. *Does anyone know the real story, or
have ideas?

Anyway, sorry for the rant...

If you are posting your experience I would not call it a rant. Your
experience with a service is valuable information.

PayPal is supposed to be an escrow service. An escrow service is one in
which the buyer and seller are both supposed to be protected. Money
deposited in the escrow account is not supposed to move out of the
account until both the buyer and seller instruct the service to release
the funds.

Here is how it is supposed to work. The seller wants to know that the
money is really there for the item. PayPal sends notice to the seller
went that money is deposited by the buyer. The seller can then ship the
item knowing that a third party in the transaction (PayPal) has the
funds that are supposed to go to the seller. The seller upon shipping
the item gives notice to PayPal to send the fund to them. At this point
PayPal takes no action. When the item is delivered at the buyers
address and the buyer has a chance to see that the item is as
advertised then the buyer sends notice to PayPal to release the funds
to the seller. This is supposed to protect the buyer. The transaction
is complete.

The funds should not ever move out of the escrow account until both the
buyer and seller agree that the money should move out of the account
for any reason. If the buyer and seller do not agree for some reason
they have to work the problem out between themselves. When an agreement
is reached between the buyer and seller and both parties send
instructions to PayPal then the money moves out of the
account.

There could be other results to the transaction. Lets say the buyer
finds out the item is not as described and wants to return the item to
the seller. If the seller agrees to taking the item back and upon
receiving the returned item the seller can instruct PayPal to release
the funds back to the buyer. Here the seller sends an instruction to
the escrow service and the buyer requests the funds returned to them.
Again the money does not move out of the escrow account until
instructed by both the buyer and seller.

This just the basics of escrow 101. If PayPal is not working this way do
not use it.

Do not ever allow a money transaction service to access your accounts.
The only way money should ever leave your savings or checking account
to an escrow account is through an expressed action on your part
period. You write a check or you goto your bank and have the funds
transfered or wired. You could also use a credit card because the credit
card company will protect you if you state that you did not authorize a
payment. Once that money is in an escrow account it is in
control of PayPal not you. If there is a problem you may have to goto
court to get your money back in a civil disagreement.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Teli - Thanks for the E.S. Crow ? 1-Oh-1 Lesson ~ RHF

EBay and Shortwave (minor rant)
 

In article
,
RHF wrote:

SNIP

Teli - Thanks for the E.S. Crow ? 1-Oh-1 Lesson ~ RHF

This is a good example of one of your stupid tricks, which is to thank
people for their posts. There is no reason to do this. The best response
would be to follow the advice in the post if you think it is good. If
you have a problem with what someone posted like I do for what you post
it would be reasonable to respond.

Do you write a letter to the NEWS PAPER for every ARTICLE in it you
think is worthy? Why do you do this here? This is a place where anyone
can POST NEWS. That is the purpose of a NEWS GROUP.

NEWS that is ON TOPIC is what you should post here. Another reason to
post here is timely information on the hobby or answering a question
that some posts here. I like to do the last one so I am not the OP on
many threads. The worthless statistics that you and MII like to compile
don't address that and also do not address on topic or usefulness of the
post content.

You rate a zero in my book. Actually you rate worse than zero. If you
just posted worthless information occasionally you would be zero but you
insist on posting a large volume of crap nearly everyday. The noise you
generate makes you an actual detriment to any thread to which you post.

Have a good day news group retard.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

EBay and Shortwave (minor rant)
 

In article
,
Telamon wrote:

In article
,
CelticDude wrote:

Hey all,

A friend of mine helped me to put a couple of radios on EBay over the
weekend. He used Vendio, and listed them both under "Consumer
Electronics\Radios: Ham, CB etc\Shortwave". The 2 auctions were set
to start Sunday at 9:00pm. Today he discovers that they didn't start
because EBay says you have to allow PayPal for certain categories of
items.

WTF??

My friend won't take PayPal because it costs extra. He has had no
problem with bank checks and money orders in past auctions. I thought
maybe it's because electronics cost a bit more, but my friend usually
sells high-end guitars and other instruments, so cost doesn't seem to
be it. Then my cynical side kicked in, and I figure EBay must be
getting kickbacks from PayPal. Does anyone know the real story, or
have ideas?

Anyway, sorry for the rant...

If you are posting your experience I would not call it a rant. Your
experience with a service is valuable information.

PayPal is supposed to be an escrow service. An escrow service is one in
which the buyer and seller are both supposed to be protected. Money
deposited in the escrow account is not supposed to move out of the
account until both the buyer and seller instruct the service to release
the funds.

Here is how it is supposed to work. The seller wants to know that the
money is really there for the item. PayPal sends notice to the seller
went that money is deposited by the buyer. The seller can then ship the
item knowing that a third party in the transaction (PayPal) has the
funds that are supposed to go to the seller. The seller upon shipping
the item gives notice to PayPal to send the fund to them. At this point
PayPal takes no action. When the item is delivered at the buyers
address and the buyer has a chance to see that the item is as
advertised then the buyer sends notice to PayPal to release the funds
to the seller. This is supposed to protect the buyer. The transaction
is complete.

The funds should not ever move out of the escrow account until both the
buyer and seller agree that the money should move out of the account
for any reason. If the buyer and seller do not agree for some reason
they have to work the problem out between themselves. When an agreement
is reached between the buyer and seller and both parties send
instructions to PayPal then the money moves out of the
account.

There could be other results to the transaction. Lets say the buyer
finds out the item is not as described and wants to return the item to
the seller. If the seller agrees to taking the item back and upon
receiving the returned item the seller can instruct PayPal to release
the funds back to the buyer. Here the seller sends an instruction to
the escrow service and the buyer requests the funds returned to them.
Again the money does not move out of the escrow account until
instructed by both the buyer and seller.

This just the basics of escrow 101. If PayPal is not working this way do
not use it.

Do not ever allow a money transaction service to access your accounts.
The only way money should ever leave your savings or checking account
to an escrow account is through an expressed action on your part
period. You write a check or you goto your bank and have the funds
transfered or wired. You could also use a credit card because the credit
card company will protect you if you state that you did not authorize a
payment. Once that money is in an escrow account it is in
control of PayPal not you. If there is a problem you may have to goto
court to get your money back in a civil disagreement.

EBay is getting more aggressive with PayPal.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080510/ap_on_hi_te/ebay_paypal_only

--
Telamon
Ventura, California