The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message
...
On Jul 11, 6:09 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:

That market now has more than 20 differentiable choices in formats. that
is
nearly 7 times the number of choices as before.

every city has 13 million people. have you ever heard of play lists?
that means someone else chooses what you are listening to. most
stations use play lists.

About 99.9% of the radio stations in the Western Hemisphere have
"playlists." All that means is that the person in charge of programming has
determined what songs can be played, how often and such.

The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through thousands of
records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed, most
have failed.

Stations had playlists in the 30's, just as they had lists of the
commercials they had to run, called a log.

nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

And that, in radio, is quite untrue.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message
...
because they were purchased, or infiltrated by hedge funds that drove
up debts, so that the parasitical hedge fund could sit by their pools,
and collect checks from the cash flow. they created such bland papers,
that they drove almost everyone away, no matter the age.
now they cannot pay their bills. to bad, the papers backed free
market economics, and now its bite them in the ass.

You are full of untruths today.

Papers have been on the decline for 25 to 30 years, because younger people
get their news and information from TV... and in the last decade, from the
Internet. Classifieds are so easy on the web, as is finding a house or
selling one. Checking out cars and prices is also easy on the web... even
buying one and then going to sign and pick it up.

The most debt-free newspapers are still in trouble, because people under 35
or 40 don't read them, and many in older groups don't read as often or as
much... and the three biggest sources of revenue, cars, classifies and real
estate, have all but dried up.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"dave" wrote in message
m...

http://somafm.com/

A good use for the web. .. ultra niche appeal.

From experience, I do not think one could find a sample of listeners to that
music even with 60,000 interviews in the LA market... so none of those
eclectic, esoteric or droning formats could be sustained by the commercial
radio model.

On the other hand, I fail to see the alternate business model for this one.
Per their stats, all 14 channels or stations have less listenership than a
mid-tier FM in Traverse City Michigan.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message
news:f91d42da-49e7-4a9b-8544-
every city has 13 million people. have you ever heard of play lists?
that means someone else chooses what you are listening to. most
stations use play lists.
nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

Thank you.. precisely my point. It's a little like states that have a
choice of capital punishments for the condemned. Death by hanging, death by
lethal injection, death by gas chamber, death by electric chair.. it's all
death, the end result is precisely the same.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

Nickname unavailable wrote:
On Jul 11, 4:04 pm, Poetic Justice wrote:
dave wrote:
0baMa0 Tse Dung wrote:
Rumblings continue from the FCC on fairness, diversity and mandates
for broadcasters.
The airwaves belong to the people. They should serve the people, not
large corporations. Radio was better when ownership was limited to a
few stations per company.
The Constitution says FREE SPEECH, NOT *EQUAL SPEECH*

perhaps you missed the part of the constitution called the supremacy
clause. of course, you have seen it before, which means you are
impervious to facts, logic, and reason.


THE SUPREMACY CLAUSE
Article. VI.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be
made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be
made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme
Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby,
any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary
notwithstanding.


The preemption doctrine derives from the Supremacy Clause of the
Constitution which states that the "Constitution and the laws of the
United States...shall be the supreme law of the land...anything in the
constitutions or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding."
This means of course, that any federal law--even a regulation of a
federal agency--trumps any conflicting state law.



Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be
construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.



Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,






~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*THE SUPREMACY CLAUSE* shall not be construed to deny or disparage
others retained by the people. Like FREEDOM of SPEECH

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message
news:f91d42da-49e7-4a9b-8544-
every city has 13 million people. have you ever heard of play lists?
that means someone else chooses what you are listening to. most
stations use play lists.
nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

Thank you.. precisely my point. It's a little like states that have a
choice of capital punishments for the condemned. Death by hanging, death
by lethal injection, death by gas chamber, death by electric chair.. it's
all death, the end result is precisely the same.

As I said to Nick, stations have had playlists and music logs or systems
going back to the early play of live music... and of course, recorded music.
Few are the stations that have had no system, and fewer the ones with no
system that have endured.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

On Jul 11, 10:11*pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message

...
On Jul 11, 6:09 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:



That market now has more than 20 differentiable choices in formats. that
is
nearly 7 times the number of choices as before.

every city has 13 million people. have you ever heard of play lists?
that means someone else chooses what you are listening to. most
stations use play lists.

About 99.9% of the radio stations in the Western Hemisphere have
"playlists." *All that means is that the person in charge of programming has
determined what songs can be played, how often and such.


that's right, in the free market, someone else tells me what to
listen to. it was not always so.

The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through thousands of
records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed, most
have failed.




most have been taken over by corporate america, then came the play
lists.



Stations had playlists in the 30's, just as they had lists of the
commercials they had to run, called a log.



yes they did. but the disk jockeys would not get fired if they dared
to play something not on the play list.


nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

And that, in radio, is quite untrue.

i live in a metro area with about 3.5 million people, not only is
radio ****, so is t.v., and both daily papers. prior to 1981, it was
not so.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

On Jul 11, 10:15*pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message

...
because they were purchased, or infiltrated by hedge funds that drove
up debts, so that the parasitical hedge fund could sit by their pools,
and collect checks from the cash flow. they created such bland papers,
that they drove almost everyone away, no matter the age.
*now they cannot pay their bills. to bad, the papers backed free
market economics, and now its bite them in the ass.

You are full of untruths today.



that is your opinion. so far that is all i have seen from you, your
opinion.

Papers have been on the decline for 25 to 30 years, because younger people
get their news and information from TV... and in the last decade, from the
Internet.

of course there are reasons for that. as i have stated. in europe,
news papers and magazines are doing much better because they are not
bland conservative doormats.


Classifieds are so easy on the web, as is finding a house or
selling one. Checking out cars and prices is also easy on the web... even
buying one and then going to sign and pick it up.



that is true. but that does not mean total failure as we have seen in
america. the same things are happening in europe, yet papers are doing
much better there, even thriving.


The most debt-free newspapers are still in trouble, because people under 35
or 40 don't read them, and many in older groups don't read as often or as
much... and the three biggest sources of revenue, cars, classifies and real
estate, have all but dried up.


same in europe, yet, the european papers give people something to
read. they are staying afloat, ours are not. people simply do not
believe them anymore. they cover nothing that is important, or if they
do, its milk toast that some right wing stink tank issues.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

On Jul 11, 10:34*pm, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message

news:f91d42da-49e7-4a9b-8544-
*every city has 13 million people. have you ever heard of play lists?
that means someone else chooses what you are listening to. most
stations use play lists.
*nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

Thank you.. precisely my point. *It's a little like states that have a
choice of capital punishments for the condemned. Death by hanging, death by
lethal injection, death by gas chamber, death by electric chair.. it's all
death, the end result is precisely the same.

correct, and the corporate conservative blandness is driving millions
of people away. people downloaded music in droves for a reason. they
get to hear what they cannot hear on the radio.
pretty soon t.v. is going to get hit really hard. reruns of lousy
shows over and over again, and only what they think you want to watch,
or, what they own.
when i was a kid, believe it or not, in my metro area, and we are in
the top 20, had 5 channels on t.v., and on friday and saturday night,
there were so many choices, that i had to weigh which choice was
better, and cross my fingers.
today, i can get 29 stations on a good night, and just about all of
them are either showing infomercials, which should be illegal, or more
reruns of what i just watched earlier.
and cable and the dish are no better. and they cost to boot.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message
...
On Jul 11, 10:11 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:

About 99.9% of the radio stations in the Western Hemisphere have
"playlists." All that means is that the person in charge of programming
has
determined what songs can be played, how often and such.


that's right, in the free market, someone else tells me what to
listen to. it was not always so.

It was always so for the vast majority of decades and stations. Just as
someone at a supermarket determines what products, sizes and varieties of
products to stock... and not stock, someone in each radio station determines
what songs are played and not played.

And just like the supermarket, which uses research, sales tabulations and
such to deteermine desirable procuts, radio does the same thing to decide on
each song.

The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through thousands
of
records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed, most
have failed.


most have been taken over by corporate america, then came the play
lists.

Not so. Playlists existed back to the time of live bands at local radio
staitons... someone determined the songs the bands would play. And since
recorded music has been a staple of American radio, going back to the
rejection of the AFM rules and Petrillo's policies, stations have
pre-programmed music in almost every instance. In fact, the format concept
that "saved radio" in the early and mid-50's, Top 40, was based entirely on
the concept of a playlist and zero deviation from it.

Stations had playlists in the 30's, just as they had lists of the
commercials they had to run, called a log.

yes they did. but the disk jockeys would not get fired if they dared
to play something not on the play list.

Hmm... in the mid 60's, the first person I fired as a PD was a guy who
played one song that was not approved.

And if you worked for Storz or McLendon or Burden or Crowell-Collier or any
of the big operators of music stations in the 50's and broke format, you
were gone.

nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

And that, in radio, is quite untrue.

i live in a metro area with about 3.5 million people, not only is
radio ****, so is t.v., and both daily papers. prior to 1981, it was
not so.

Probably the stations have adjusted to contemporary taste of the target
audience, which is generally 18-49 or 25-54, and you are either out of the
demographic or have not kept up with current taste.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

On Jul 11, 10:46*pm, Poetic Justice wrote:
Nickname unavailable wrote:
On Jul 11, 4:04 pm, Poetic Justice wrote:
dave wrote:
0baMa0 Tse Dung wrote:
Rumblings continue from the FCC on fairness, diversity and mandates
for broadcasters.
The airwaves belong to the people. *They should serve the people, not
large corporations. *Radio was better when ownership was limited to a
few stations per company.
The Constitution says FREE SPEECH, NOT *EQUAL SPEECH*

*perhaps you missed the part of the constitution called the supremacy
clause. of course, you have seen it before, which means you are
impervious to facts, logic, and reason.

THE SUPREMACY CLAUSE
Article. VI.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be
made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be
made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme
Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby,
any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary
notwithstanding.

The preemption doctrine derives from the Supremacy Clause of the
Constitution which states that the "Constitution and the laws of the
United States...shall be the supreme law of the land...anything in the
constitutions or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding."
This means of course, that any federal law--even a regulation of a
federal agency--trumps any conflicting state law.

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be
construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


we have been thru this before, there are limits.


Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,


and its recognized that there are limits.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

* *THE SUPREMACY CLAUSE* shall not be construed to deny or disparage
others retained by the people. Like FREEDOM of SPEECH

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

no one would pay attention to any amendment without the supremacy
clause. its the basis for our government. other wise there would be 50
warring countries.
its simply beyond your scope of reasoning.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message
...
On Jul 11, 10:15 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message

...
because they were purchased, or infiltrated by hedge funds that drove
up debts, so that the parasitical hedge fund could sit by their pools,
and collect checks from the cash flow. they created such bland papers,
that they drove almost everyone away, no matter the age.
now they cannot pay their bills. to bad, the papers backed free
market economics, and now its bite them in the ass.

You are full of untruths today.

that is your opinion. so far that is all i have seen from you, your
opinion.

Newspaper circulation is so trendable that charts are even in introduction
to media books at the college level. Circulation has been falling for
decades, and it is demonstrable. The loss of classified revenue, auto
revenue and real estate revenue is in every publicly traded print company's
annual reports and investor updates, with exact statistics. The ABC
documents circulation, and similarly documented counts of column inches of
advertising are readily available.

Papers have been on the decline for 25 to 30 years, because younger people
get their news and information from TV... and in the last decade, from the
Internet.

of course there are reasons for that. as i have stated. in europe,
news papers and magazines are doing much better because they are not
bland conservative doormats.

I was just looking at the financials of Grupo Prisa from Spain, publisher of
Spain's huge national daily... where revenues have been slipping for 10
years and the company is rapidly moving resources to new media instead.
England has seen papers cease publication, and the business is just as bad
there as the US, even though readership is enhanced by the huge use of
public transit.

Classifieds are so easy on the web, as is finding a house or
selling one. Checking out cars and prices is also easy on the web... even
buying one and then going to sign and pick it up.

that is true. but that does not mean total failure as we have seen in
america. the same things are happening in europe, yet papers are doing
much better there, even thriving.

No, they are not. They are losing ad revenue, losing younger demo
circulation and costs are increasing.

The most debt-free newspapers are still in trouble, because people under
35
or 40 don't read them, and many in older groups don't read as often or as
much... and the three biggest sources of revenue, cars, classifies and
real
estate, have all but dried up.

same in europe, yet, the european papers give people something to
read. they are staying afloat, ours are not. people simply do not
believe them anymore. they cover nothing that is important, or if they
do, its milk toast that some right wing stink tank issues.

Very, very few US papers have closed, save those that had a direct
competitor. Two paper cities practically don't exist, but that trend started
in the 50's with things like the News buying the Press in Cleveland, etc.
But papers are still viable, but are shrinking. If costs are reduced, they
will go on for years.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...

The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through thousands
of records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed,
most have failed.

Back in the day, KAPA in Raymond, WA used to have a library of literally
thousands of records, all in very nicely laid out libraries, from which
their announcers could retrieve pretty much anything they wanted to play.
The station did indeed finally fail.. but it was only AFTER it was bought up
by a corporate entity and pretty much driven into the ground.

Corporate radio has ruined radio. Even in the heyday of network radio,
individual affiliate stations had their own programming, usually in the
daytime. Networks ruled the evenings with the great comedy and news
programs.

A great many netcasting stations have thousands of tracks that they pick and
choose from. Almost none have a limited playlist (DMCA actually PREVENTS it
in cases where the stations are bothering to follow the law).

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...


Not so. Playlists existed back to the time of live bands at local radio
staitons... someone determined the songs the bands would play. And since
recorded music has been a staple of American radio, going back to the
rejection of the AFM rules and Petrillo's policies, stations have
pre-programmed music in almost every instance. In fact, the format concept
that "saved radio" in the early and mid-50's, Top 40, was based entirely
on the concept of a playlist and zero deviation from it.

The "Drake" format, a top 30 format, preceded the top 40 format. Even back
then, stations figured out that there is such a thing as limiting a playlist
TOO much. Something current broadcasters seem to have forgotten.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

On Jul 12, 12:56*am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message

...
On Jul 11, 10:11 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:



About 99.9% of the radio stations in the Western Hemisphere have
"playlists." All that means is that the person in charge of programming
has
determined what songs can be played, how often and such.

*that's right, in the free market, someone else tells me what to
listen to. it was not always so.

It was always so for the vast majority of decades and stations. Just as
someone at a supermarket determines what products, sizes and varieties of
products to stock... and not stock, someone in each radio station determines
what songs are played and not played.



today, a playlist from some corporate goon in new york determines
what gets played, and what does not. in my youth, i got to hear lots
of local garage bands get air time, then make it national.
today, that would not happen, its the playlist, and nothing else.


And just like the supermarket, which uses research, sales tabulations and
such to deteermine desirable procuts, radio does the same thing to decide on
each song.



you are a kool aid drinker aren't you. many local grocery stores
stock products from small suppliers, with out all of the above goobly
gook.


The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through thousands
of
records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed, most
have failed.

most have been taken over by corporate america, then came the play
lists.

Not so. Playlists existed back to the time of live bands at local radio
staitons... someone determined the songs the bands would play. And since
recorded music has been a staple of American radio, going back to the
rejection of the AFM rules and Petrillo's policies, stations have
pre-programmed music in almost every instance. In fact, the format concept
that "saved radio" in the early and mid-50's, Top 40, was based entirely on
the concept of a playlist and zero deviation from it.


yes there has been in the past, except, they were flexible. today,
see if a jockey was to sneak in something not on the playlist, see
what would happen to such jockey. its why independents can no longer
get airtime, but when i was a kid, they did.
you are simply a hard wired free market apologist.


Stations had playlists in the 30's, just as they had lists of the
commercials they had to run, called a log.

yes they did. but the disk jockeys would not get fired if they dared
to play something not on the play list.

Hmm... in the mid 60's, the first person I fired as a PD was a guy who
played one song that was not approved.


at your station. back then, there were 1000's of independently owned
stations. are you telling me that they all operated the same?


And if you worked for Storz or McLendon or Burden or Crowell-Collier or any
of the big operators of music stations in the 50's and broke format, you
were gone.


but, was there 10 companies or less that own just about all radio
stations in america? not!


nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

And that, in radio, is quite untrue.

i live in a metro area with about 3.5 million people, not only is
radio ****, so is t.v., and both daily papers. prior to 1981, it was
not so.

Probably the stations have adjusted to contemporary taste of the target
audience, which is generally 18-49 or 25-54, and you are either out of the
demographic or have not kept up with current taste.

snicker, infomercials are entertainment, that is how far we have
sunk. you are part of the problem, that is why corporate media is
failing.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message
news:01a2cb41-9192-4b72-a429-
correct, and the corporate conservative blandness is driving millions
of people away. people downloaded music in droves for a reason. they
get to hear what they cannot hear on the radio.
pretty soon t.v. is going to get hit really hard. reruns of lousy
shows over and over again, and only what they think you want to watch,
or, what they own.
when i was a kid, believe it or not, in my metro area, and we are in
the top 20, had 5 channels on t.v., and on friday and saturday night,
there were so many choices, that i had to weigh which choice was
better, and cross my fingers.
today, i can get 29 stations on a good night, and just about all of
them are either showing infomercials, which should be illegal, or more
reruns of what i just watched earlier.
and cable and the dish are no better. and they cost to boot.

When I was young (and up to not-so-long ago), even where there were a lot of
stations with the same general format, you could tune around and find a song
you liked better. This was especially true of AM at night. Even the talkers
were more interesting and varied. You had individuals at the great stations
like KSL, KNX, KGO, etc. all with different styles and opinions. Now, you
got Rush and Noory, everywhere on the dial. The only way you can tell what
station you're listening to is to hopefully catch the legal ID at the top of
the hour. Everything is the same, differentiated only slightly by
propogation path differences.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

On Jul 12, 1:05*am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message

...
On Jul 11, 10:15 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:

"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message

....
because they were purchased, or infiltrated by hedge funds that drove
up debts, so that the parasitical hedge fund could sit by their pools,
and collect checks from the cash flow. they created such bland papers,
that they drove almost everyone away, no matter the age.
now they cannot pay their bills. to bad, the papers backed free
market economics, and now its bite them in the ass.

You are full of untruths today.

that is your opinion. so far that is all i have seen from you, your
opinion.

Newspaper circulation is so trendable that charts are even in introduction
to media books at the college level. Circulation has been falling for
decades, and it is demonstrable. The loss of classified revenue, auto
revenue and real estate revenue is in every publicly traded print company's
annual reports and investor updates, with exact statistics. The ABC
documents circulation, and similarly documented counts of column inches of
advertising are readily available.


because they are bland conservative door mats. but in europe, its
different.


Papers have been on the decline for 25 to 30 years, because younger people
get their news and information from TV... and in the last decade, from the
Internet.

of course there are reasons for that. as i have stated. in europe,
news papers and magazines are doing much better because they are not
bland conservative doormats.

I was just looking at the financials of Grupo Prisa from Spain, publisher of
Spain's huge national daily... where revenues have been slipping for 10
years and the company is rapidly moving resources to new media instead.
England has seen papers cease publication, and the business is just as bad
there as the US, even though readership is enhanced by the huge use of
public transit.



i did not say all was roses, however, they are doing better. because
they are not bland conservative doormats.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0...n_180621..html

European Newspapers Thriving While Americans Struggle

New York Times | Eric Pfanner | 03/30/09

New York Times:

PARIS -- As the death toll in the American newspaper industry mounted
this month, the German publisher Axel Springer, which owns Bild, the
biggest newspaper in Europe, reported the highest profit in its 62-
year history.

At Springer's headquarters in Berlin, there has been no desperate talk
of how to survive the recession and the digital revolution. Instead,
Mathias Döpfner, Springer's chief executive, said he was looking for
opportunities to expand, scouting around for acquisitions in Germany,
Eastern Europe and maybe -- in what would be a first for the company
-- the United States.

Read the whole story: New York Times


Classifieds are so easy on the web, as is finding a house or

selling one. Checking out cars and prices is also easy on the web... even
buying one and then going to sign and pick it up.

that is true. but that does not mean total failure as we have seen in
america. the same things are happening in europe, yet papers are doing
much better there, even thriving.

No, they are not. They are losing ad revenue, losing younger demo
circulation and costs are increasing.



some are, some are not. typical in the business world, however, as i
have posted, some are doing really well:) most of ours are on life
support. they are bland conservative doormats that no one believes
anymore.


The most debt-free newspapers are still in trouble, because people under
35
or 40 don't read them, and many in older groups don't read as often or as
much... and the three biggest sources of revenue, cars, classifies and
real
estate, have all but dried up.

same in europe, yet, the european papers give people something to
read. they are staying afloat, ours are not. people simply do not
believe them anymore. they cover nothing that is important, or if they
do, its milk toast that some right wing stink tank issues.

Very, very few US papers have closed, save those that had a direct
competitor. Two paper cities practically don't exist, but that trend started
in the 50's with things like the News buying the Press in Cleveland, etc.
But papers are still viable, but are shrinking. If costs are reduced, they
will go on for years.

they need to become the guardian, which just broke a huge story that
made world headlines. except here of course. its why american news in
general is losing readership, and viewership.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

On Jul 12, 1:09*am, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
"David Eduardo" wrote in message

...



The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through thousands
of records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed,
most have failed.

Back in the day, KAPA in Raymond, WA used to have a library of literally
thousands of records, all in very nicely laid out libraries, from which
their announcers could retrieve pretty much anything they wanted to play.
The station did indeed finally fail.. but it was only AFTER it was bought up
by a corporate entity and pretty much driven into the ground.

Corporate radio has ruined radio. Even in the heyday of network radio,
individual affiliate stations had their own programming, usually in the
daytime. Networks ruled the evenings with the great comedy and news
programs.

A great many netcasting stations have thousands of tracks that they pick and
choose from. Almost none have a limited playlist (DMCA actually PREVENTS it
in cases where the stations are bothering to follow the law).

correct, go get the shill. i was in a local station more than once in
my youth, and i got to pick my own playlist from 1000's of 45's. then
the jockey played them.
today, corporate america has ruined not only radio, but t.v. and the
papers. they have loaded them up with debt, and severe restrictions
that make them bland, conservative in nature, safe.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

On Jul 12, 1:18*am, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message

news:01a2cb41-9192-4b72-a429-
*correct, and the corporate conservative blandness is driving millions
of people away. people downloaded music in droves for a reason. they
get to hear what they cannot hear on the radio.
*pretty soon t.v. is going to get hit really hard. reruns of lousy
shows over and over again, and only what they think you want to watch,
or, what they own.
*when i was a kid, believe it or not, in my metro area, and we are in
the top 20, had 5 channels on t.v., and on friday and saturday night,
there were so many choices, that i had to weigh which choice was
better, and cross my fingers.
*today, i can get 29 stations on a good night, and just about all of
them are either showing infomercials, which should be illegal, or more
reruns of what i just watched earlier.
*and cable and the dish are no better. and they cost to boot.

When I was young (and up to not-so-long ago), even where there were a lot of
stations with the same general format, you could tune around and find a song
you liked better. This was especially true of AM at night. Even the talkers
were more interesting and varied. You had individuals at the great stations
like KSL, KNX, KGO, etc. all with different styles and opinions. Now, you
got Rush and Noory, everywhere on the dial. The only way you can tell what
station you're listening to is to hopefully catch the legal ID at the top of
the hour. Everything is the same, differentiated only slightly by
propogation path differences.

that is correct. i have waited for a long time to hear the i.d.'s to
figure out who they are. the jockeys voice is different, but the music
is exactly the same. i do a lot of traveling.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...

The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through thousands
of records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed,
most have failed.

Back in the day, KAPA in Raymond, WA used to have a library of literally
thousands of records, all in very nicely laid out libraries, from which
their announcers could retrieve pretty much anything they wanted to play.
The station did indeed finally fail.. but it was only AFTER it was bought
up by a corporate entity and pretty much driven into the ground.

Excellent. There are 14 thousand stations in the US, and you base your
conclusion on one of them.

The station, without knowing it, failed because it was a Class IV on 1340 in
a very sparsely populated county... where even today, a C2 FM only puts a
decent signal over 60,000 persons. And that county, unlike in the 50's, is
now invaded by many usable FMs from other nearby locations... yet it had a
monopoly when it went on in 1950.

Today, that AM is silent, like so many like it... KYOR in Blythe comes to
mind... because FMs had so much more coverage and there was no need for an
AM.

The fact that the station did not have a format did not help.

Corporate radio has ruined radio. Even in the heyday of network radio,
individual affiliate stations had their own programming, usually in the
daytime. Networks ruled the evenings with the great comedy and news
programs.

I'd suggest you revisit publications like Radex, as you can see that the
webs provided programming for much of the day, including the daytime drama
shows that evolved into soap operas. Many issues of Radex, with complete
programming schedules, are at www.americanradio.com.

Network stations carried loads of daytime content, too.

A great many netcasting stations have thousands of tracks that they pick
and choose from. Almost none have a limited playlist (DMCA actually
PREVENTS it in cases where the stations are bothering to follow the law).

The DCMA has very few restrictions that would affect even the most limited
playlist in use today. There is a restriction on repeats, and in how many
songs by an artist that can be played together or in proximity...
specifically:

"In any three-hour period:
not more than three songs from the same recording
not more than two songs in a row from the same recording
not more than four songs from the same artist
not more than three songs in a row from the same artist
not more than four songs from the same anthology/box set
not more than three songs in a row from the same anthology/box set. "

The tightest Top 40 in the US which repeats some songs every 90 minutes
would break those rules... stations generally don't repeat an artist more
often than every 45 minutes, and they seldom would play that deep in a
particular recording or set.

So, a station with a 40 song library would be able to comply with the rules,
and they do. But since most CHRs have over 100 songs today, there is no
issue.

The problem with stations with thousands of songs is that nobody listens to
them.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

On Jul 12, 1:42*am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message

...



"David Eduardo" wrote in message
. ..

The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through thousands
of records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed,
most have failed.

Back in the day, KAPA in Raymond, WA used to have a library of literally
thousands of records, all in very nicely laid out libraries, from which
their announcers could retrieve pretty much anything they wanted to play.
The station did indeed finally fail.. but it was only AFTER it was bought
up by a corporate entity and pretty much driven into the ground.

Excellent. There are 14 thousand stations in the US, and you base your
conclusion on one of them.

The station, without knowing it, failed because it was a Class IV on 1340 in
a very sparsely populated county... where even today, a C2 FM only puts a
decent signal over 60,000 persons. And that county, unlike in the 50's, is
now invaded by many usable FMs from other nearby locations... yet it had a
monopoly when it went on in 1950.

Today, that AM is silent, like so many like it... KYOR in Blythe comes to
mind... because FMs had so much more coverage and there was no need for an
AM.

The fact that the station did not have a format did not help.



Corporate radio has ruined radio. Even in the heyday of network radio,
individual affiliate stations had their own programming, usually in the
daytime. Networks ruled the evenings with the great comedy and news
programs.

I'd suggest you revisit publications like Radex, as you can see that the
webs provided programming for much of the day, including the daytime drama
shows that evolved into soap operas. Many issues of Radex, with complete
programming schedules, are atwww.americanradio.com.

Network stations carried loads of daytime content, too.



A great many netcasting stations have thousands of tracks that they pick
and choose from. Almost none have a limited playlist (DMCA actually
PREVENTS it in cases where the stations are bothering to follow the law).

The DCMA has very few restrictions that would affect even the most limited
playlist in use today. There is a restriction on repeats, and in how many
songs by an artist that can be played together or in proximity...
specifically:

"In any three-hour period:
not more than three songs from the same recording
not more than two songs in a row from the same recording
not more than four songs from the same artist
not more than three songs in a row from the same artist
not more than four songs from the same anthology/box set
not more than three songs in a row from the same anthology/box set. "

The tightest Top 40 in the US which repeats some songs every 90 minutes
would break those rules... stations generally don't repeat an artist more
often than every 45 minutes, and they seldom would play that deep in a
particular recording or set.

So, a station with a 40 song library would be able to comply with the rules,
and they do. But since most CHRs have over 100 songs today, there is no
issue.

The problem with stations with thousands of songs is that nobody listens to
them.

yea right, thats why corporate radio, t.v., and papers, are doing so
well.
your type of thinking, is on its way out, pronto.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...


Not so. Playlists existed back to the time of live bands at local radio
staitons... someone determined the songs the bands would play. And since
recorded music has been a staple of American radio, going back to the
rejection of the AFM rules and Petrillo's policies, stations have
pre-programmed music in almost every instance. In fact, the format
concept that "saved radio" in the early and mid-50's, Top 40, was based
entirely on the concept of a playlist and zero deviation from it.

The "Drake" format, a top 30 format, preceded the top 40 format. Even back
then, stations figured out that there is such a thing as limiting a
playlist TOO much. Something current broadcasters seem to have forgotten.

OMG.

Top 40's concept was developed by Todd Storz in 1952, and put on the air at
KOWH in Omaha in August of that year. By the mid 50's there were several
hundred top 40 stations in the US... and Canada, and Mexico and all over the
world.

Bill Drake's update of the format, developed in Fresno in 1963 and 1964,
debuted on KHJ in Los Angeles in 1965. While the existing Top 40's played
the 40 hits, Drake played those 40 hits but added "gold" songs to the
library and expanded the list to well over 100 songs. Drake never played a
top 30 list, ever. Did I say "ever?"

In fact, the "big deal" with Drake was that KHJ beat existing Top 40 LA
stations KFWB and KRLA in just a few months, and then KFRC in San Francisco
beat KEWB and KYA just as fast.

I had a top 40 on the air in Quito, Ecuador, a year before Drake debuted
KHJ.

You have your dates and formats and names reversed.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...
The station, without knowing it, failed because it was a Class IV on 1340
in a very sparsely populated county... where even today, a C2 FM only puts
a decent signal over 60,000 persons. And that county, unlike in the 50's,
is now invaded by many usable FMs from other nearby locations... yet it
had a monopoly when it went on in 1950.


1) KAPA was a damn fine station, with great local flavor and a good
community presence. I listened to it while I lived there most of the time,
even though KOL in Seattle put in a very good signal to the south, and
continued to listen when I lived in Astoria, because the signal they put in
there was quite good, and they had a better program than the (then) two
locals and a semi-local (KVAS, KAST and KSWB).

2) To quote a certain shill person "nobody listens to radio outside the
64dBu city contours" and "stations don't care about anyone outside their own
city contours... they do not count in the ratings." I know there was other
BS in there somewhere..

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message
...
On Jul 12, 12:56 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:

It was always so for the vast majority of decades and stations. Just as
someone at a supermarket determines what products, sizes and varieties of
products to stock... and not stock, someone in each radio station
determines
what songs are played and not played.

today, a playlist from some corporate goon in new york determines
what gets played, and what does not. in my youth, i got to hear lots
of local garage bands get air time, then make it national.
today, that would not happen, its the playlist, and nothing else.

Actually, in most rated markets significant stations do local music research
and determine the playlist based on that local data. Given the hard economic
times, many stations have reduced such costs, but they make themselves
vulnerable to competitors...

It´s precisely the local research that shows that there is no interest in
the generally bad songs by the local bands, so they don't get played.

And just like the supermarket, which uses research, sales tabulations and
such to deteermine desirable procuts, radio does the same thing to decide
on
each song.

you are a kool aid drinker aren't you. many local grocery stores
stock products from small suppliers, with out all of the above goobly
gook.

How many people go to little local grocery stores if they have a choice? The
prices are higher, the assortment is limited, etc. In any case, customers
are going to want their preferred products no matter where they buy. The
bigger markets analyze sales data, and combined with promotional allowances
and such, calculate what will sell and have the most shelf turns and most
profit. They can even analyze how many inches of facing to give and at what
level and the resultant sales.


The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through
thousands
of
records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed, most
have failed.

most have been taken over by corporate america, then came the play
lists.

Not so. Playlists existed back to the time of live bands at local radio
staitons... someone determined the songs the bands would play. And since
recorded music has been a staple of American radio, going back to the
rejection of the AFM rules and Petrillo's policies, stations have
pre-programmed music in almost every instance. In fact, the format concept
that "saved radio" in the early and mid-50's, Top 40, was based entirely
on
the concept of a playlist and zero deviation from it.


yes there has been in the past, except, they were flexible. today,
see if a jockey was to sneak in something not on the playlist, see
what would happen to such jockey. its why independents can no longer
get airtime, but when i was a kid, they did.
you are simply a hard wired free market apologist.


Stations had playlists in the 30's, just as they had lists of the
commercials they had to run, called a log.

yes they did. but the disk jockeys would not get fired if they dared
to play something not on the play list.

Hmm... in the mid 60's, the first person I fired as a PD was a guy who
played one song that was not approved.


at your station. back then, there were 1000's of independently owned
stations. are you telling me that they all operated the same?


And if you worked for Storz or McLendon or Burden or Crowell-Collier or
any
of the big operators of music stations in the 50's and broke format, you
were gone.


but, was there 10 companies or less that own just about all radio
stations in america? not!


nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

And that, in radio, is quite untrue.

i live in a metro area with about 3.5 million people, not only is
radio ****, so is t.v., and both daily papers. prior to 1981, it was
not so.

Probably the stations have adjusted to contemporary taste of the target
audience, which is generally 18-49 or 25-54, and you are either out of the
demographic or have not kept up with current taste.

snicker, infomercials are entertainment, that is how far we have
sunk. you are part of the problem, that is why corporate media is
failing.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message
...

PARIS -- As the death toll in the American newspaper industry mounted
this month, the German publisher Axel Springer, which owns Bild, the
biggest newspaper in Europe, reported the highest profit in its 62-
year history.

Death toll? How many US papers have closed this year, to date? One in
Tucson, one in Denver, one in Seattle... and a couple more. In 1967, we lost
about 30 daily metro papers... all were either evening papers, which
succumbed to the Huntley Brinkley Report and to TV evening news in general,
or were the second paper in the morning in a metro. Guess what, the ones
that I named were all second papers, and there is not enough money for them.

So the article starts with an inaccurate statement, as if hundreds of papers
had closed when it is barely a handful.

And Axel Springer is expanding in things like controlling a major share of
online classifieds in his markets, as well as profitable specialty
magazines, radio, TV, the German equivalent of Amazon.com, etc., etc, etc.
All the revenue growth is in electronic media and new media.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message
...
On Jul 12, 1:09 am, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
"David Eduardo" wrote in message

correct, go get the shill. i was in a local station more than once in
my youth, and i got to pick my own playlist from 1000's of 45's. then
the jockey played them.

Must have been a bad station in a small market or a really bad on in a
bigger one. In any case, nobody who knows radio would call the person on the
air a "jockey." Jockeys ride horses. Disk Jockeys may be called DJ's or
Jocks, but they ain't called jockeys.

today, corporate america has ruined not only radio, but t.v. and the
papers. they have loaded them up with debt, and severe restrictions
that make them bland, conservative in nature, safe.

There are 14,000 radio stations in the US, and perhaps 1000 are burdened
with seemingly irresolvable debt issues. None would have had any trouble
were it not for the recession, so you are doing the equivalent of blaming
debt for the failure of Chrysler and GM, when it was the perfect storm of
labor commitments, bad designs and horrible quality that came about due to
the recession.

Yes, a few companies are in trouble in radio due to debt. Most are not.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...
The station, without knowing it, failed because it was a Class IV on 1340
in a very sparsely populated county... where even today, a C2 FM only
puts a decent signal over 60,000 persons. And that county, unlike in the
50's, is now invaded by many usable FMs from other nearby locations...
yet it had a monopoly when it went on in 1950.


1) KAPA was a damn fine station, with great local flavor and a good
community presence. I listened to it while I lived there most of the time,
even though KOL in Seattle put in a very good signal to the south, and
continued to listen when I lived in Astoria, because the signal they put
in there was quite good, and they had a better program than the (then) two
locals and a semi-local (KVAS, KAST and KSWB).

The problem is that, given a station with good programming that is
entertaining, listeners abandon "community presence" and "local flavor"
instantly just as they abandoned the local hamburger joint when McDonalds
openened.

Lots of really good local AMs have been swept away by big FM signals coming
on the air in the 70's and 80's. The smart ones bought FMs, too. The others
failed and go through new owners every few years.

2) To quote a certain shill person "nobody listens to radio outside the
64dBu city contours" and "stations don't care about anyone outside their
own city contours... they do not count in the ratings." I know there was
other BS in there somewhere..

The minute that little market was penetrated by numerous FMs it was over for
the Class IV no matter what you think of its programming.

And analysis of millions of listener weeks of recorded listening over nearly
a decade shows that there is very little listening outside the 64 dbu of FMs
at work or at home, and much of that is because the radios of the last few
decades can't pick up much of anything less than that with acceptable
quality. When I see nearly no exceptions that would validate your
contention, I must conclude that you are imagining things.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...

And analysis of millions of listener weeks of recorded listening over
nearly a decade shows that there is very little listening outside the 64
dbu of FMs at work or at home, and much of that is because the radios of
the last few decades can't pick up much of anything less than that with
acceptable quality. When I see nearly no exceptions that would validate
your contention, I must conclude that you are imagining things.

How many of those studies were done outside huge metros?

I've lived in towns with their own FM's where the 64 dBu contour didn't
cover the transmitter site parking lot. One example was KLER-FM in Orofino,
ID. Their tower was BELOW average terrain, and they were running 100 watts,
and couldn't cover a significant portion of the very small town they are
located in. Since then, they have raised their tower height and power, but
given the terrain, probably don't have a much better coverage. It may be an
exaggeration, but not much of one, to say that some educational stations
wouldn't have a 64 dBu signal if you connected the meter directly to the
transmitter.. :)

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...

And analysis of millions of listener weeks of recorded listening over
nearly a decade shows that there is very little listening outside the 64
dbu of FMs at work or at home, and much of that is because the radios of
the last few decades can't pick up much of anything less than that with
acceptable quality. When I see nearly no exceptions that would validate
your contention, I must conclude that you are imagining things.

How many of those studies were done outside huge metros?

Almost every county in the US is part of some metro. The non-measured
counties are only a couple of percrent of the total US population... and
they are not measured because the ability to get a sample is very hard.

For example, in Washington only Asotin county is not measured, and in Oregon
only Curry and Lake are not in. In some states like Ohio, every county is
measured. In Michigan, only a couple of very sparsely populated UP counties
are not in the sample of some metro, plus tiny Alcona County in NE Michigan.

The studies essentially looked at all diary returns. FM showed 95% of
listening in the 64 dbu for attributable in home and at work listening, no
matter what market... and it comes down to the ability of radios to pick up
acceptably anything less, not desire to listen.

I've lived in towns with their own FM's where the 64 dBu contour didn't
cover the transmitter site parking lot. One example was KLER-FM in
Orofino, ID. Their tower was BELOW average terrain, and they were running
100 watts, and couldn't cover a significant portion of the very small town
they are located in. Since then, they have raised their tower height and
power, but given the terrain, probably don't have a much better coverage.
It may be an exaggeration, but not much of one, to say that some
educational stations wouldn't have a 64 dBu signal if you connected the
meter directly to the transmitter.. :)

And it would not be an exaggeration to say nobody listens, but finding out
if it is because the station has lousy programming or no coverage is a
different and subjective issue.

The 64 of KLER covers less than 9000 people, but it does cover the market...
such as it is.

I've seen plenty of stations with negative HAATs that did marvelously, but
it was due to the height averaging working in their favor.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...
How many of those studies were done outside huge metros?

Almost every county in the US is part of some metro. The non-measured
counties are only a couple of percrent of the total US population... and
they are not measured because the ability to get a sample is very hard.


You do realize that 2% of 300 million people is a substantial 6,000,000
people?


I've lived in towns with their own FM's where the 64 dBu contour didn't
cover the transmitter site parking lot. One example was KLER-FM in
Orofino, ID. Their tower was BELOW average terrain, and they were running
100 watts, and couldn't cover a significant portion of the very small
town they are located in. Since then, they have raised their tower height
and power, but given the terrain, probably don't have a much better
coverage. It may be an exaggeration, but not much of one, to say that
some educational stations wouldn't have a 64 dBu signal if you connected
the meter directly to the transmitter.. :)

And it would not be an exaggeration to say nobody listens, but finding out
if it is because the station has lousy programming or no coverage is a
different and subjective issue.

The 64 of KLER covers less than 9000 people, but it does cover the
market... such as it is.


Is that the current stats, or the old ones under the 100 watt signal 300'
HBAT? Gads, that was TERRIBLE.. and their engineering was atrocious... the
stereo balance severely favored the left channel.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

David Eduardo wrote:


The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through
thousands of records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has
existed, most have failed.


Myth? How so? Community stations have such programmers to this day.
When I was in Top 40 (50 actually) radio in the '60s we were told where
to choose the next record from, e.g. top 10 current out of the top of
the hour ID; power oldie out of news headlines, etc. We were never
told to play a specific song at a specific time.

We had music meetings where we auditioned new records and informally
voted on them. We discovered and broke new acts. Our musical knowledge
and opinion was valued.

I blame Lee Abrams more than Ron Jacobs.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

David Eduardo wrote:

"dave" wrote in message
m...

http://somafm.com/

A good use for the web. .. ultra niche appeal.

From experience, I do not think one could find a sample of listeners to
that music even with 60,000 interviews in the LA market... so none of
those eclectic, esoteric or droning formats could be sustained by the
commercial radio model.

On the other hand, I fail to see the alternate business model for this
one. Per their stats, all 14 channels or stations have less listenership
than a mid-tier FM in Traverse City Michigan.


They only have 3 employees. You have to add the Shoutcast stats to the
web site stats to get a closer idea of how many people are listening.

I send them about $100 a year. They have about 20,000 listeners.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...
How many of those studies were done outside huge metros?

Almost every county in the US is part of some metro. The non-measured
counties are only a couple of percrent of the total US population... and
they are not measured because the ability to get a sample is very hard.


You do realize that 2% of 300 million people is a substantial 6,000,000
people?

And, to save AM from death, a slight reduction in service to them,
particularly since nearly 100% have multiple decent FM signals to listen to,
is a good trade.

And the point, as I have said and as is well documented, is moot. AM loses
more audience every year and the only format that sustains it, other than
brokered and religious and paid ethnic offerings, is rapidly moving to FM.

You did know that Seattle's biggest AM, KIRO, moved its format to FM? It
just left AM to to the static, the noise, the CFLs and computers and jumped
to a band people actually like to listen to.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

From: "Brenda Ann"
Subject: The "Progressive" Promised Land
Date: Sunday, July 12, 2009 3:26 AM


"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...
The 64 of KLER covers less than 9000 people, but it does cover the
market... such as it is.


Is that the current stats, or the old ones under the 100 watt signal 300'
HBAT? Gads, that was TERRIBLE.. and their engineering was atrocious... the
stereo balance severely favored the left channel.

That is today. Sounds like someone wanted to get an FM channel and keep it
from anyone else.... the AM covers about three times as many folks.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

"dave" wrote in message
m...
David Eduardo wrote:


The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through thousands
of records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed,
most have failed.


Myth? How so? Community stations have such programmers to this day.

I have trouble documenting the effectiveness of this... since, even when one
creates custom geography areas, 99% of these suckers seem to have no
detectable listeners. This is, again, "if a tree falls in a forrest...."

When I was in Top 40 (50 actually) radio in the '60s we were told where to
choose the next record from, e.g. top 10 current out of the top of the
hour ID; power oldie out of news headlines, etc. We were never told to
play a specific song at a specific time.

That is how it worked even in the largest markets until computers took over
the manual job of selection. Still, you chose out of 10 songs that were on
the playlist at the top of the hour, not among thousands of songs. All you
did was manually shuffle them.

The defect is that a person given this power, as limited as it is, to
shuffle will skip the songs they don't like quite often... and never play
them, although much of the audience may wish to hear them.

We had music meetings where we auditioned new records and informally voted
on them. We discovered and broke new acts. Our musical knowledge and
opinion was valued.

That, in some form or another, is still how new music is picked. Only now,
we know fairly quickly with things like callout, if we had a hit or a miss.
And we get the bad songs out of the system early. 99% of "favor play" gets
nuked when the listeners vote .

I blame Lee Abrams more than Ron Jacobs.

Neither created the systems for identifying hits. And "hit" in radio simply
means any song listeners want to hear, today. And, conversely, it means any
song that a significant percentage of listeners would not like to hear and
which might cause them to tune out is not played.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

Nickname unavailable wrote:
who cares what some right wing lying nut cases say. the truth is,
that bush broke the law,

yes

and trampled on the constitution,

Yes

he should be in jail for high crimes.

and YES!

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

On Jul 12, 1:42*am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message

...



"David Eduardo" wrote in message
. ..

The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through thousands
of records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed,
most have failed.

Back in the day, KAPA in Raymond, WA used to have a library of literally
thousands of records, all in very nicely laid out libraries, from which
their announcers could retrieve pretty much anything they wanted to play.
The station did indeed finally fail.. but it was only AFTER it was bought
up by a corporate entity and pretty much driven into the ground.

Excellent. There are 14 thousand stations in the US, and you base your
conclusion on one of them.

The station, without knowing it, failed because it was a Class IV on 1340 in
a very sparsely populated county... where even today, a C2 FM only puts a
decent signal over 60,000 persons. And that county, unlike in the 50's, is
now invaded by many usable FMs from other nearby locations... yet it had a
monopoly when it went on in 1950.

Today, that AM is silent, like so many like it... KYOR in Blythe comes to
mind... because FMs had so much more coverage and there was no need for an
AM.

The fact that the station did not have a format did not help.



Corporate radio has ruined radio. Even in the heyday of network radio,
individual affiliate stations had their own programming, usually in the
daytime. Networks ruled the evenings with the great comedy and news
programs.

I'd suggest you revisit publications like Radex, as you can see that the
webs provided programming for much of the day, including the daytime drama
shows that evolved into soap operas. Many issues of Radex, with complete
programming schedules, are atwww.americanradio.com.

Network stations carried loads of daytime content, too.



A great many netcasting stations have thousands of tracks that they pick
and choose from. Almost none have a limited playlist (DMCA actually
PREVENTS it in cases where the stations are bothering to follow the law).

The DCMA has very few restrictions that would affect even the most limited
playlist in use today. There is a restriction on repeats, and in how many
songs by an artist that can be played together or in proximity...
specifically:

"In any three-hour period:
not more than three songs from the same recording
not more than two songs in a row from the same recording
not more than four songs from the same artist
not more than three songs in a row from the same artist
not more than four songs from the same anthology/box set
not more than three songs in a row from the same anthology/box set. "

The tightest Top 40 in the US which repeats some songs every 90 minutes
would break those rules... stations generally don't repeat an artist more
often than every 45 minutes, and they seldom would play that deep in a
particular recording or set.

So, a station with a 40 song library would be able to comply with the rules,
and they do. But since most CHRs have over 100 songs today, there is no
issue.

The problem with stations with thousands of songs is that nobody listens to
them.

you cannot have it both ways. you say that a broad selection means
that people will not listen, yet in the same breath out of the other
side of your mouth, you say people are turning to the net in droves
for just that sort of selection.
all one has to do is take a peak at a download site, its full of
music and movies, and lots of them are never seen nor heard on
american corporate owned media.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

On Jul 12, 1:52*am, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
"David Eduardo" wrote in message

...

The station, without knowing it, failed because it was a Class IV on 1340
in a very sparsely populated county... where even today, a C2 FM only puts
a decent signal over 60,000 persons. And that county, unlike in the 50's,
is now invaded by many usable FMs from other nearby locations... yet it
had a monopoly when it went on in 1950.

1) *KAPA was a damn fine station, with great local flavor and a good
community presence. I listened to it while I lived there most of the time,
even though KOL in Seattle put in a very good signal to the south, and
continued to listen when I lived in Astoria, because the signal they put in
there was quite good, and they had a better program than the (then) two
locals and a semi-local (KVAS, KAST and KSWB).

2) To quote a certain shill person "nobody listens to radio outside the
64dBu city contours" and "stations don't care about anyone outside their own
city contours... they do not count in the ratings." *I know there was other
BS in there somewhere..

when i was a kid, there was a radio station in of all place, little
rock arkansas, i am in minneapolis/st.paul, that rock station would
come in late at night, and really good if it was a clear night, and
they would play all sorts of rock music that was obscure, and that was
back in the 60's and 70's. i really miss them.
they used to play a song about hemp rope, and the hippe that craved
the rope, it was hilarious. today if you dare criticize a
conservative, you are banned from air time, censored like the nazi's
used to do. conservatism, just say no, its the healthy thing to do.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

On Jul 12, 2:10*am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message

...

PARIS -- As the death toll in the American newspaper industry mounted
this month, the German publisher Axel Springer, which owns Bild, the
biggest newspaper in Europe, reported the highest profit in its 62-
year history.

Death toll? How many US papers have closed this year, to date? One in
Tucson, one in Denver, one in Seattle... and a couple more. In 1967, we lost
about 30 daily metro papers... all were either evening papers, which
succumbed to the Huntley Brinkley Report and to TV evening news in general,
or were the second paper in the morning in a metro. Guess what, the ones
that I named were all second papers, and there is not enough money for them.



then it shows you that concentration had to start somewhere. last
time i checked, oslo norway, pop. a little over 3 mil. still has 3
dailys.

So the article starts with an inaccurate statement, as if hundreds of papers
had closed when it is barely a handful.



nope, if there is only daily, and its gone, then cities have one less
source of information. did you read the complete article?


And Axel Springer is expanding in things like controlling a major share of
online classifieds in his markets, as well as profitable specialty
magazines, radio, TV, the German equivalent of Amazon.com, etc., etc, etc..
All the revenue growth is in electronic media and new media.

did you read the article. they are looking for papers and magazines
to purchase.

The "Progressive" Promised Land
 

On Jul 12, 2:15*am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message

...
On Jul 12, 1:09 am, "Brenda Ann" wrote:

"David Eduardo" wrote in message

correct, go get the shill. i was in a local station more than once in
my youth, and i got to pick my own playlist from 1000's of 45's. then
the jockey played them.

Must have been a bad station in a small market or a really bad on in a
bigger one. In any case, nobody who knows radio would call the person on the
air a "jockey." Jockeys ride horses. Disk Jockeys may be called DJ's or
Jocks, but they ain't called jockeys.



minneapolis/st.paul. hardly small. it was am radio then. today they
are talk, but back then, they were the rock power house.

today, corporate america has ruined not only radio, but t.v. and the
papers. they have loaded them up with debt, and severe restrictions
that make them bland, conservative in nature, safe.

There are 14,000 radio stations in the US, and perhaps 1000 are burdened
with seemingly irresolvable debt issues. None would have had any trouble
were it not for the recession, so you are doing the equivalent of blaming
debt for the failure of Chrysler and GM, when it was the perfect storm of
labor commitments, bad designs and horrible quality that came about due to
the recession.



and most are owned by a few companies, that loaded them up on debt
because of the purchase price, and gave us a bad product, a product
that was costing them customers before the recession. and as we always
see with conservative economics, they cannot pay their bills. who
would have ever thought.


Yes, a few companies are in trouble in radio due to debt. Most are not.

we shall see.