Noob questions?
 

Over the years, I've used a portable Grundig radio to listen to both FM
and Shortwave broadcasts. I have relied on the antenna that came with
the radio, but this has, I'm sure, limited by listening capabilities.

Lately, I've been thinking about expanding my capacity: I'd like to have
more selection in my shortwave stations (this receiver, for instance,
doesn't support LSB or USB).

I've also noticed that a variety of options exist:

1) Tabletop shortwave units, combined with a quality indoor (or outdoor)
antenna;
2) Tabletop wide frequency receivers, again coupled with a quality
antenna; or,
3) Software-defined radios that essentially depend upon Windows machines
to work.

Of these, the last option doesn't appeal to me because I make a living
programming computers and would prefer a more "independent" medium. So,
that leaves me with questions about options 1 and 2.

If someone has a wide-spectrum receiver (capable of receiving SW, LW,
VHF, UHF, etc), could they also receive (digital) television signals,
allowing them to use this receiver as both a TV tuner and a radio?

Because of where I live I cannot easily install an outdoor antenna, so
I'm considering several indoor units ---again, this might depend upon
whether I'm interested in SW or a wider frequency spectrum. Is this
feasible? In other words: do any of you have experience with these units
and do they work (of course I understand that you need a lot more
information --my location, etc., but these are general questions).

Naturally, would appreciate any input from the group about reasonable
alternatives.

Regards,

Tom R

Noob questions?
 

On 07/16/09 07:45, Tom Reinhardt wrote:
Over the years, I've used a portable Grundig radio to listen to both FM
and Shortwave broadcasts. I have relied on the antenna that came with
the radio, but this has, I'm sure, limited by listening capabilities.

Lately, I've been thinking about expanding my capacity: I'd like to have
more selection in my shortwave stations (this receiver, for instance,
doesn't support LSB or USB).

I've also noticed that a variety of options exist:

1) Tabletop shortwave units, combined with a quality indoor (or outdoor)
antenna;
2) Tabletop wide frequency receivers, again coupled with a quality
antenna; or,
3) Software-defined radios that essentially depend upon Windows machines
to work.

Of these, the last option doesn't appeal to me because I make a living
programming computers and would prefer a more "independent" medium. So,
that leaves me with questions about options 1 and 2.

If someone has a wide-spectrum receiver (capable of receiving SW, LW,
VHF, UHF, etc), could they also receive (digital) television signals,
allowing them to use this receiver as both a TV tuner and a radio?



Good question. I"m not aware of an ATSC adaptor for a stand alone
radio at this point. Although, that's not to say there isn't one.

AOR, and ICOM and JRC come to mind as manufacturers of wideband
radios for which NTSC adaptors were available, so you could, indeed
watch TV on your radio. Pretty cool. Worked decently, too. Took a
little getting used to, but fun.

Currently, ATSC portable portable TV's are just coming onto the
market, so it may be a while, yet before ATSC adaptors are available
for widebands. But I'm sure that's coming.



Because of where I live I cannot easily install an outdoor antenna, so
I'm considering several indoor units ---again, this might depend upon
whether I'm interested in SW or a wider frequency spectrum. Is this
feasible? In other words: do any of you have experience with these units
and do they work (of course I understand that you need a lot more
information --my location, etc., but these are general questions).


Indoor antennae are iffy at best in today's electronics rich
home. Even attic antenna can be pointless given the hash produced by
monitors, printers, TV sets, routers and digital cables strung
around the house.

Outdoor antennae for HF radio listening can be large, require
specific grounding, and transmission line installation
considerations. A really good antenna will require some real estate,
and a careful installation.

Alternatives include active antennae, which can be smaller, but
more sensitive to locally generated hash; loops which can be
smaller, more directional, but quieter than other actives; RF
Systems Magnetic Transfer Antennae, which can be larger than active
loops like the Wellbrook, but quiet, although they do require
specific grounding. MTA's are less sensitive, but with the lower
noise floor, and considering that most receivers have more than
enough sensitivity to compensate, they can be highly effective
performers.

I use an MTA, myself. With good results.

Active loops and MTA's can be mounted outdoors but concealed,
well. They don't attract a lot of attention. Pricier than simpler
outdoor antennae, though.


For VHF and up, there are a variety of small, space efficient
antennae that can be equally well concealed. The discone is simple,
quiet, omni directional, and easy to install. It offers a 1-2 db
gain over isotropic. Commercial discones will typically reach to 1.3
Ghz. Some more, some less.

There are also actives for VHF and UHF. These may tend to
overload with strong local signals, and strong local noise sources,
so installation location will be important. Relatively small, and
unobtrusive outdoors.

There are also a couple of HF-UHF actives. The same notations for
HF actives apply here.

With VHF and up, the higher the antenna, the longer the reach,
so, you need to keep that in mind. A passive antenna with height
will generally be more effective than an active in the attic. A
passive directional and a rotor will get you better S/N than an
active omni.

For examples, check the Universal Radio website catalog, and the
Wellbrook website.

From there you can spring to any manufacturer whose products
interest you.

Noob questions?
 

D. Peter Maus wrote:
On 07/16/09 07:45, Tom Reinhardt wrote:
Over the years, I've used a portable Grundig radio to listen to both FM
and Shortwave broadcasts. I have relied on the antenna that came with
the radio, but this has, I'm sure, limited by listening capabilities.

Lately, I've been thinking about expanding my capacity: I'd like to have
more selection in my shortwave stations (this receiver, for instance,
doesn't support LSB or USB).

I've also noticed that a variety of options exist:

1) Tabletop shortwave units, combined with a quality indoor (or outdoor)
antenna;
2) Tabletop wide frequency receivers, again coupled with a quality
antenna; or,
3) Software-defined radios that essentially depend upon Windows machines
to work.

Of these, the last option doesn't appeal to me because I make a living
programming computers and would prefer a more "independent" medium. So,
that leaves me with questions about options 1 and 2.

If someone has a wide-spectrum receiver (capable of receiving SW, LW,
VHF, UHF, etc), could they also receive (digital) television signals,
allowing them to use this receiver as both a TV tuner and a radio?



Good question. I"m not aware of an ATSC adaptor for a stand alone
radio at this point. Although, that's not to say there isn't one.

AOR, and ICOM and JRC come to mind as manufacturers of wideband radios
for which NTSC adaptors were available, so you could, indeed watch TV on
your radio. Pretty cool. Worked decently, too. Took a little getting
used to, but fun.

Currently, ATSC portable portable TV's are just coming onto the
market, so it may be a while, yet before ATSC adaptors are available for
widebands. But I'm sure that's coming.



Because of where I live I cannot easily install an outdoor antenna, so
I'm considering several indoor units ---again, this might depend upon
whether I'm interested in SW or a wider frequency spectrum. Is this
feasible? In other words: do any of you have experience with these units
and do they work (of course I understand that you need a lot more
information --my location, etc., but these are general questions).


Indoor antennae are iffy at best in today's electronics rich home.
Even attic antenna can be pointless given the hash produced by monitors,
printers, TV sets, routers and digital cables strung around the house.

Outdoor antennae for HF radio listening can be large, require specific
grounding, and transmission line installation considerations. A really
good antenna will require some real estate, and a careful installation.

Alternatives include active antennae, which can be smaller, but more
sensitive to locally generated hash; loops which can be smaller, more
directional, but quieter than other actives; RF Systems Magnetic
Transfer Antennae, which can be larger than active loops like the
Wellbrook, but quiet, although they do require specific grounding. MTA's
are less sensitive, but with the lower noise floor, and considering that
most receivers have more than enough sensitivity to compensate, they can
be highly effective performers.

I use an MTA, myself. With good results.

Active loops and MTA's can be mounted outdoors but concealed, well.
They don't attract a lot of attention. Pricier than simpler outdoor
antennae, though.


For VHF and up, there are a variety of small, space efficient antennae
that can be equally well concealed. The discone is simple, quiet, omni
directional, and easy to install. It offers a 1-2 db gain over
isotropic. Commercial discones will typically reach to 1.3 Ghz. Some
more, some less.

There are also actives for VHF and UHF. These may tend to overload
with strong local signals, and strong local noise sources, so
installation location will be important. Relatively small, and
unobtrusive outdoors.

There are also a couple of HF-UHF actives. The same notations for HF
actives apply here.

With VHF and up, the higher the antenna, the longer the reach, so, you
need to keep that in mind. A passive antenna with height will generally
be more effective than an active in the attic. A passive directional and
a rotor will get you better S/N than an active omni.

For examples, check the Universal Radio website catalog, and the
Wellbrook website.

From there you can spring to any manufacturer whose products interest
you.



Thank you for your quick and thorough response. I think that I'll have a
look at that Wellbrook page, as well as Universal Radio, as you had
suggested. I think that at the end of the day, I need to determine if
I'm interested in SW alone, or if I want to attempt the wideband
receiver. Interestingly, I don't watch TV, my significant other does and
she hates dealing with the cable monopolies, so I though that this might
be a nice ancillary benefit.

Thank you, again ...

TomR

Noob questions?
 

On 07/16/09 09:07, Tom Reinhardt wrote:
D. Peter Maus wrote:
On 07/16/09 07:45, Tom Reinhardt wrote:
Over the years, I've used a portable Grundig radio to listen to both FM
and Shortwave broadcasts. I have relied on the antenna that came with
the radio, but this has, I'm sure, limited by listening capabilities.

Lately, I've been thinking about expanding my capacity: I'd like to have
more selection in my shortwave stations (this receiver, for instance,
doesn't support LSB or USB).

I've also noticed that a variety of options exist:

1) Tabletop shortwave units, combined with a quality indoor (or outdoor)
antenna;
2) Tabletop wide frequency receivers, again coupled with a quality
antenna; or,
3) Software-defined radios that essentially depend upon Windows machines
to work.

Of these, the last option doesn't appeal to me because I make a living
programming computers and would prefer a more "independent" medium. So,
that leaves me with questions about options 1 and 2.

If someone has a wide-spectrum receiver (capable of receiving SW, LW,
VHF, UHF, etc), could they also receive (digital) television signals,
allowing them to use this receiver as both a TV tuner and a radio?



Good question. I"m not aware of an ATSC adaptor for a stand alone
radio at this point. Although, that's not to say there isn't one.

AOR, and ICOM and JRC come to mind as manufacturers of wideband radios
for which NTSC adaptors were available, so you could, indeed watch TV
on your radio. Pretty cool. Worked decently, too. Took a little
getting used to, but fun.

Currently, ATSC portable portable TV's are just coming onto the
market, so it may be a while, yet before ATSC adaptors are available
for widebands. But I'm sure that's coming.



Because of where I live I cannot easily install an outdoor antenna, so
I'm considering several indoor units ---again, this might depend upon
whether I'm interested in SW or a wider frequency spectrum. Is this
feasible? In other words: do any of you have experience with these units
and do they work (of course I understand that you need a lot more
information --my location, etc., but these are general questions).


Indoor antennae are iffy at best in today's electronics rich home.
Even attic antenna can be pointless given the hash produced by
monitors, printers, TV sets, routers and digital cables strung around
the house.

Outdoor antennae for HF radio listening can be large, require specific
grounding, and transmission line installation considerations. A really
good antenna will require some real estate, and a careful installation.

Alternatives include active antennae, which can be smaller, but more
sensitive to locally generated hash; loops which can be smaller, more
directional, but quieter than other actives; RF Systems Magnetic
Transfer Antennae, which can be larger than active loops like the
Wellbrook, but quiet, although they do require specific grounding.
MTA's are less sensitive, but with the lower noise floor, and
considering that most receivers have more than enough sensitivity to
compensate, they can be highly effective performers.

I use an MTA, myself. With good results.

Active loops and MTA's can be mounted outdoors but concealed, well.
They don't attract a lot of attention. Pricier than simpler outdoor
antennae, though.


For VHF and up, there are a variety of small, space efficient antennae
that can be equally well concealed. The discone is simple, quiet, omni
directional, and easy to install. It offers a 1-2 db gain over
isotropic. Commercial discones will typically reach to 1.3 Ghz. Some
more, some less.

There are also actives for VHF and UHF. These may tend to overload
with strong local signals, and strong local noise sources, so
installation location will be important. Relatively small, and
unobtrusive outdoors.

There are also a couple of HF-UHF actives. The same notations for HF
actives apply here.

With VHF and up, the higher the antenna, the longer the reach, so, you
need to keep that in mind. A passive antenna with height will
generally be more effective than an active in the attic. A passive
directional and a rotor will get you better S/N than an active omni.

For examples, check the Universal Radio website catalog, and the
Wellbrook website.

From there you can spring to any manufacturer whose products interest
you.



Thank you for your quick and thorough response. I think that I'll have a
look at that Wellbrook page, as well as Universal Radio, as you had
suggested. I think that at the end of the day, I need to determine if
I'm interested in SW alone, or if I want to attempt the wideband
receiver. Interestingly, I don't watch TV, my significant other does and
she hates dealing with the cable monopolies, so I though that this might
be a nice ancillary benefit.

I don't do cable, or satellite, either. I have a very high gain
antenna in the attic, a preamp and distribution amp, and very low
loss coax, which ain't cheap.

Here in my location in suburban Chicago, I get all the Chicago
stations, with their subchannels, all the Milwaukee stations with
their subchannels. As well as all the Madison and Rockford channels.
45 at last count, and increasing all the time.

Cable is really good at providing another bill, but little else.

As for listening, keep in mind that you don't need to make any
catholic decisions now. Pick an area of interest, and then expand as
necessary. HF, for all intents and purposes is a separate animal
than V/UHF. Propagation, noise floor, antenna and transmission line
considerations are all different. Making wideband receivers and
antennae expensive. And a wideband receiver will cost you, dearly,
for decent HF reception.

Pick what interests you today. Expand at will as your interests
evolve.



Thank you, again ...

TomR

Noob questions?
 

Tom...welcome to SWLing.

I've been fooling around with this stuff since the 60s. I'll probably step
on some toes because people seem to become very possessive of their
technologies these days but my experience has been that active antennas,
indoor antennas, power line antennas offer only convenience. None of them
out perform a simple longwire antenna strung up outside. It's not the rocket
science some would you to believe. Just hang a wire between two trees in the
clear and forget about it.

As for TV...the digital conversion was a blessing. We watch no TV now except
old movies on our old set. We're enjoying it much more and don't have to put
up with the moronic "news" coverage and drug ads.

Good luck.