Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

An Allied SX-190. This radio, while not quite the best thing out
there, was pretty darn good for 1970's vintage, and had some nice
features - HAS some nice features - that helped the DX.

Just got me one in really nice shape. Clean as a whistle, sensitive,
and everything works. The guy who sold it to me did some of the mods
on it to sweeten the thing up, and it sounds great. It doesn't have
all the modern bells and whistles, but it has decent selectivity with
its mechanical filters, tunes easily and accurately to within 0.5 kHz
(try that with almost any other consumer-grade analogue RX) and it
sounds clean and clear with its matching speaker.

Overloads a little bit on 31 meters, and maybe on 41 and 49. Easily
resolved by putting the AF Gain all the way up and using the RF gain
for volume control.

Just listened to VOA Botswana relay on 9885, BBC from Cyprus on 12035
sandwiched between VoRs powerhouses 5 kHz up and down, and a bunch of
other good stuff. Hams sound like they're in the room with me. This
thing is FUN, and is a real pip :-)

Bruce Jensen

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

On Mar 26, 1:15*am, bpnjensen wrote:
An Allied SX-190. *This radio, while not quite the best thing out
there, was pretty darn good for 1970's vintage, and had some nice
features - HAS some nice features - that helped the DX.

Just got me one in really nice shape. *Clean as a whistle, sensitive,
and everything works. *The guy who sold it to me did some of the mods
on it to sweeten the thing up, and it sounds great. *It doesn't have
all the modern bells and whistles, but it has decent selectivity with
its mechanical filters, tunes easily and accurately to within 0.5 kHz
(try that with almost any other consumer-grade analogue RX) and it
sounds clean and clear with its matching speaker.

Overloads a little bit on 31 meters, and maybe on 41 and 49. *Easily
resolved by putting the AF Gain all the way up and using the RF gain
for volume control.

Just listened to VOA Botswana relay on 9885, BBC from Cyprus on 12035
sandwiched between VoRs powerhouses 5 kHz up and down, and a bunch of
other good stuff. *Hams sound like they're in the room with me. This
thing is FUN, and is a real pip :-)

Bruce Jensen

Does it have optional crystals for full SW coverage?

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

On 3/26/10 24:15 , bpnjensen wrote:
An Allied SX-190. This radio, while not quite the best thing out
there, was pretty darn good for 1970's vintage, and had some nice
features - HAS some nice features - that helped the DX.

Just got me one in really nice shape. Clean as a whistle, sensitive,
and everything works. The guy who sold it to me did some of the mods
on it to sweeten the thing up, and it sounds great. It doesn't have
all the modern bells and whistles, but it has decent selectivity with
its mechanical filters, tunes easily and accurately to within 0.5 kHz
(try that with almost any other consumer-grade analogue RX) and it
sounds clean and clear with its matching speaker.

Overloads a little bit on 31 meters, and maybe on 41 and 49. Easily
resolved by putting the AF Gain all the way up and using the RF gain
for volume control.

Just listened to VOA Botswana relay on 9885, BBC from Cyprus on 12035
sandwiched between VoRs powerhouses 5 kHz up and down, and a bunch of
other good stuff. Hams sound like they're in the room with me. This
thing is FUN, and is a real pip :-)

Bruce Jensen



Nice. I always liked that one. Never could quite put a deal together
on one.

Great find.

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

On Mar 25, 10:20*pm, wrote:
On Mar 26, 1:15*am, bpnjensen wrote:





An Allied SX-190. *This radio, while not quite the best thing out
there, was pretty darn good for 1970's vintage, and had some nice
features - HAS some nice features - that helped the DX.

Just got me one in really nice shape. *Clean as a whistle, sensitive,
and everything works. *The guy who sold it to me did some of the mods
on it to sweeten the thing up, and it sounds great. *It doesn't have
all the modern bells and whistles, but it has decent selectivity with
its mechanical filters, tunes easily and accurately to within 0.5 kHz
(try that with almost any other consumer-grade analogue RX) and it
sounds clean and clear with its matching speaker.

Overloads a little bit on 31 meters, and maybe on 41 and 49. *Easily
resolved by putting the AF Gain all the way up and using the RF gain
for volume control.

Just listened to VOA Botswana relay on 9885, BBC from Cyprus on 12035
sandwiched between VoRs powerhouses 5 kHz up and down, and a bunch of
other good stuff. *Hams sound like they're in the room with me. This
thing is FUN, and is a real pip :-)

Bruce Jensen

*Does it have optional crystals for full SW coverage?

It only has the stock - including the two ham bands 20m and 80m that
puzzle some folks (why not 13 and 60 for SWL?) but it has the spaces
for two additional, and I think I know some companies out there that
can make custom crystals for the radio. I expect that I will try to
get some for 60m and for 13.5 - 14 MHz. Since each one requires the
addition of an internal cap, these may be it for awhile - or maybe
I'll get fancy and come up with an easy system for plugging crystals
in and out with a variable cap so I can get other bands. We'll see.
I still need to perfect my cornball antenna system.

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

On Mar 25, 10:21*pm, "D. Peter Maus" wrote:
On 3/26/10 24:15 , bpnjensen wrote:





An Allied SX-190. *This radio, while not quite the best thing out
there, was pretty darn good for 1970's vintage, and had some nice
features - HAS some nice features - that helped the DX.

Just got me one in really nice shape. *Clean as a whistle, sensitive,
and everything works. *The guy who sold it to me did some of the mods
on it to sweeten the thing up, and it sounds great. *It doesn't have
all the modern bells and whistles, but it has decent selectivity with
its mechanical filters, tunes easily and accurately to within 0.5 kHz
(try that with almost any other consumer-grade analogue RX) and it
sounds clean and clear with its matching speaker.

Overloads a little bit on 31 meters, and maybe on 41 and 49. *Easily
resolved by putting the AF Gain all the way up and using the RF gain
for volume control.

Just listened to VOA Botswana relay on 9885, BBC from Cyprus on 12035
sandwiched between VoRs powerhouses 5 kHz up and down, and a bunch of
other good stuff. *Hams sound like they're in the room with me. This
thing is FUN, and is a real pip :-)

Bruce Jensen

* *Nice. I always liked that one. Never could quite put a deal together
on one.

* *Great find.

Thanks, yeah, it's pretty nice. Just a fun, old-timey and very
attractive radio. It is the first radio I have that my wife noticed
and approved of the aesthetics ;-)

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

On 3/26/10 24:31 , bpnjensen wrote:
On Mar 25, 10:21 pm, "D. Peter wrote:
On 3/26/10 24:15 , bpnjensen wrote:





An Allied SX-190. This radio, while not quite the best thing out
there, was pretty darn good for 1970's vintage, and had some nice
features - HAS some nice features - that helped the DX.

Just got me one in really nice shape. Clean as a whistle, sensitive,
and everything works. The guy who sold it to me did some of the mods
on it to sweeten the thing up, and it sounds great. It doesn't have
all the modern bells and whistles, but it has decent selectivity with
its mechanical filters, tunes easily and accurately to within 0.5 kHz
(try that with almost any other consumer-grade analogue RX) and it
sounds clean and clear with its matching speaker.

Overloads a little bit on 31 meters, and maybe on 41 and 49. Easily
resolved by putting the AF Gain all the way up and using the RF gain
for volume control.

Just listened to VOA Botswana relay on 9885, BBC from Cyprus on 12035
sandwiched between VoRs powerhouses 5 kHz up and down, and a bunch of
other good stuff. Hams sound like they're in the room with me. This
thing is FUN, and is a real pip :-)

Bruce Jensen

Nice. I always liked that one. Never could quite put a deal together
on one.

Great find.

Thanks, yeah, it's pretty nice. Just a fun, old-timey and very
attractive radio. It is the first radio I have that my wife noticed
and approved of the aesthetics ;-)


Then it's doomed.

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

On Mar 26, 1:34*am, "D. Peter Maus" wrote:
On 3/26/10 24:31 , bpnjensen wrote:





On Mar 25, 10:21 pm, "D. Peter *wrote:
On 3/26/10 24:15 , bpnjensen wrote:

An Allied SX-190. *This radio, while not quite the best thing out
there, was pretty darn good for 1970's vintage, and had some nice
features - HAS some nice features - that helped the DX.

Just got me one in really nice shape. *Clean as a whistle, sensitive,
and everything works. *The guy who sold it to me did some of the mods
on it to sweeten the thing up, and it sounds great. *It doesn't have
all the modern bells and whistles, but it has decent selectivity with
its mechanical filters, tunes easily and accurately to within 0.5 kHz
(try that with almost any other consumer-grade analogue RX) and it
sounds clean and clear with its matching speaker.

Overloads a little bit on 31 meters, and maybe on 41 and 49. *Easily
resolved by putting the AF Gain all the way up and using the RF gain
for volume control.

Just listened to VOA Botswana relay on 9885, BBC from Cyprus on 12035
sandwiched between VoRs powerhouses 5 kHz up and down, and a bunch of
other good stuff. *Hams sound like they're in the room with me. This
thing is FUN, and is a real pip :-)

Bruce Jensen

* * Nice. I always liked that one. Never could quite put a deal together
on one.

* * Great find.

Thanks, yeah, it's pretty nice. *Just a fun, old-timey and very
attractive radio. *It is the first radio I have that my wife noticed
and approved of the aesthetics ;-)

* *Then it's doomed.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I am afraid, as Peter may be foretelling the future...

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

"bpnjensen" wrote in message
...
An Allied SX-190. This radio, while not quite the best thing out
there, was pretty darn good for 1970's vintage, and had some nice
features - HAS some nice features - that helped the DX.

Just got me one in really nice shape. Clean as a whistle, sensitive,
and everything works. The guy who sold it to me did some of the mods
on it to sweeten the thing up, and it sounds great. It doesn't have
all the modern bells and whistles, but it has decent selectivity with
its mechanical filters, tunes easily and accurately to within 0.5 kHz
(try that with almost any other consumer-grade analogue RX) and it
sounds clean and clear with its matching speaker.

Overloads a little bit on 31 meters, and maybe on 41 and 49. Easily
resolved by putting the AF Gain all the way up and using the RF gain
for volume control.

Just listened to VOA Botswana relay on 9885, BBC from Cyprus on 12035
sandwiched between VoRs powerhouses 5 kHz up and down, and a bunch of
other good stuff. Hams sound like they're in the room with me. This
thing is FUN, and is a real pip :-)

Bruce Jensen

Great Bruce, happy for you.
Keep us posted on the upgrades!

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

On Mar 26, 1:15*am, bpnjensen wrote:
An Allied SX-190.SNIP
Bruce Jensen

Congrats Bruce - sounds pretty sweet - enjoy.

James NB1R
Lexington MA

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

bpnjensen wrote:


It only has the stock - including the two ham bands 20m and 80m that
puzzle some folks (why not 13 and 60 for SWL?) but it has the spaces
for two additional, and I think I know some companies out there that
can make custom crystals for the radio. I expect that I will try to
get some for 60m and for 13.5 - 14 MHz. Since each one requires the
addition of an internal cap, these may be it for awhile - or maybe
I'll get fancy and come up with an easy system for plugging crystals
in and out with a variable cap so I can get other bands. We'll see.
I still need to perfect my cornball antenna system.

ICM in Oklahoma still makes them.

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

On 3/26/10 24:29 , bpnjensen wrote:
It only has the stock - including the two ham bands 20m and 80m that
puzzle some folks (why not 13 and 60 for SWL?) but it has the spaces
for two additional, and I think I know some companies out there that
can make custom crystals for the radio. I expect that I will try to
get some for 60m and for 13.5 - 14 MHz. Since each one requires the
addition of an internal cap, these may be it for awhile - or maybe
I'll get fancy and come up with an easy system for plugging crystals
in and out with a variable cap so I can get other bands. We'll see.
I still need to perfect my cornball antenna system.



On the subject of crystals. I have a bunch of them laying around.

3956.0
1989.0
4145.0
2118.0
3975.0
3994.5
3895.0
7115.0
3865.0
3995.0
7145.0
3885.0
3905.8
3930.0
3855.0


Image he


https://download.yousendit.com/RmNBck8rd0E5eFd4dnc9PQ


If you can use them, a reasonable offer takes any or all.

p

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

dave wrote:
bpnjensen wrote:


It only has the stock - including the two ham bands 20m and 80m that
puzzle some folks (why not 13 and 60 for SWL?) but it has the spaces
for two additional, and I think I know some companies out there that
can make custom crystals for the radio. I expect that I will try to
get some for 60m and for 13.5 - 14 MHz. Since each one requires the
addition of an internal cap, these may be it for awhile - or maybe
I'll get fancy and come up with an easy system for plugging crystals
in and out with a variable cap so I can get other bands. We'll see.
I still need to perfect my cornball antenna system.

ICM in Oklahoma still makes them.

http://www.icmfg.com/

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

"dave" wrote in message
...
bpnjensen wrote:


It only has the stock - including the two ham bands 20m and 80m that
puzzle some folks (why not 13 and 60 for SWL?) but it has the spaces
for two additional, and I think I know some companies out there that
can make custom crystals for the radio. I expect that I will try to
get some for 60m and for 13.5 - 14 MHz. Since each one requires the
addition of an internal cap, these may be it for awhile - or maybe
I'll get fancy and come up with an easy system for plugging crystals
in and out with a variable cap so I can get other bands. We'll see.
I still need to perfect my cornball antenna system.

ICM in Oklahoma still makes them.

You could always buy or build a VFO (or a stable signal generator) and mark
the frequencies you need to set it to for each band

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

Sounds like a nice Radio.Enjoy.
cuhulin

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

On Mar 26, 7:09*am, "Brenda Ann"
wrote:
"dave" wrote in message

...

bpnjensen wrote:

It only has the stock - including the two ham bands 20m and 80m that
puzzle some folks (why not 13 and 60 for SWL?) but it has the spaces
for two additional, and I think I know some companies out there that
can make custom crystals for the radio. *I expect that I will try to
get some for 60m and for 13.5 - 14 MHz. *Since each one requires the
addition of an internal cap, these may be it for awhile - or maybe
I'll get fancy and come up with an easy system for plugging crystals
in and out with a variable cap so I can get other bands. *We'll see.
I still need to perfect my cornball antenna system.

ICM in Oklahoma still makes them.

You could always buy or build a VFO (or a stable signal generator) and mark
the frequencies you need to set it to for each band

Interesting idea?? If I did this, would it be connected directly to
the crystal socket? The radio has an internal VFO, but it comes after
each crystal.

Bruce

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

On Mar 25, 11:50*pm, wrote:
On Mar 26, 1:34*am, "D. Peter Maus" wrote:





On 3/26/10 24:31 , bpnjensen wrote:

On Mar 25, 10:21 pm, "D. Peter *wrote:
On 3/26/10 24:15 , bpnjensen wrote:

An Allied SX-190. *This radio, while not quite the best thing out
there, was pretty darn good for 1970's vintage, and had some nice
features - HAS some nice features - that helped the DX.

Just got me one in really nice shape. *Clean as a whistle, sensitive,
and everything works. *The guy who sold it to me did some of the mods
on it to sweeten the thing up, and it sounds great. *It doesn't have
all the modern bells and whistles, but it has decent selectivity with
its mechanical filters, tunes easily and accurately to within 0.5 kHz
(try that with almost any other consumer-grade analogue RX) and it
sounds clean and clear with its matching speaker.

Overloads a little bit on 31 meters, and maybe on 41 and 49. *Easily
resolved by putting the AF Gain all the way up and using the RF gain
for volume control.

Just listened to VOA Botswana relay on 9885, BBC from Cyprus on 12035
sandwiched between VoRs powerhouses 5 kHz up and down, and a bunch of
other good stuff. *Hams sound like they're in the room with me. This
thing is FUN, and is a real pip :-)

Bruce Jensen

* * Nice. I always liked that one. Never could quite put a deal together
on one.

* * Great find.

Thanks, yeah, it's pretty nice. *Just a fun, old-timey and very
attractive radio. *It is the first radio I have that my wife noticed
and approved of the aesthetics ;-)

* *Then it's doomed.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

*I am afraid, as Peter may be foretelling the future...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Geez, you guys - What's she gonna do, put it in the kitchen and use it
a trivet?

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

In cold weather, your cat can sit by that radio and keep warm.
cuhulin

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

http://www.devilfinder.com
Allied SX-190 Radios

Some Good reading there.I have an old 1955 Allied catalog, I bought it a
bunch of years ago (for 25 or 35 cents) at a Goodwill store.The catalog
is in very good condition.It is a Keeper.
cuhulin

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

On Mar 26, 8:41*am, wrote:
In cold weather, your cat can sit by that radio and keep warm.
cuhulin

Heh! Well, maybe not this one - it's just solid state. When I get
that Hammarlund HQ-145, though, Cosmo (that's one of my cats) will
surely be happy to oblige :-)

Bruce

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

On 3/26/2010 1:31 AM, bpnjensen wrote:
On Mar 25, 10:21 pm, "D. Peter wrote:
On 3/26/10 24:15 , bpnjensen wrote:





An Allied SX-190. This radio, while not quite the best thing out
there, was pretty darn good for 1970's vintage, and had some nice
features - HAS some nice features - that helped the DX.

Just got me one in really nice shape. Clean as a whistle, sensitive,
and everything works. The guy who sold it to me did some of the mods
on it to sweeten the thing up, and it sounds great. It doesn't have
all the modern bells and whistles, but it has decent selectivity with
its mechanical filters, tunes easily and accurately to within 0.5 kHz
(try that with almost any other consumer-grade analogue RX) and it
sounds clean and clear with its matching speaker.

Overloads a little bit on 31 meters, and maybe on 41 and 49. Easily
resolved by putting the AF Gain all the way up and using the RF gain
for volume control.

Just listened to VOA Botswana relay on 9885, BBC from Cyprus on 12035
sandwiched between VoRs powerhouses 5 kHz up and down, and a bunch of
other good stuff. Hams sound like they're in the room with me. This
thing is FUN, and is a real pip :-)

Bruce Jensen

Nice. I always liked that one. Never could quite put a deal together
on one.

Great find.

Thanks, yeah, it's pretty nice. Just a fun, old-timey and very
attractive radio. It is the first radio I have that my wife noticed
and approved of the aesthetics ;-)
Had one of them back in the day. vary hansom receiver. enjoy.

Drifter...

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

On Fri, 26 Mar 2010, bpnjensen wrote:

On Mar 26, 7:09*am, "Brenda Ann"
wrote:
"dave" wrote in message

...

bpnjensen wrote:

It only has the stock - including the two ham bands 20m and 80m that
puzzle some folks (why not 13 and 60 for SWL?) but it has the spaces
for two additional, and I think I know some companies out there that
can make custom crystals for the radio. *I expect that I will try to
get some for 60m and for 13.5 - 14 MHz. *Since each one requires the
addition of an internal cap, these may be it for awhile - or maybe
I'll get fancy and come up with an easy system for plugging crystals
in and out with a variable cap so I can get other bands. *We'll see.
I still need to perfect my cornball antenna system.

ICM in Oklahoma still makes them.

You could always buy or build a VFO (or a stable signal generator) and mark
the frequencies you need to set it to for each band

Interesting idea?? If I did this, would it be connected directly to
the crystal socket? The radio has an internal VFO, but it comes after
each crystal.

If the oscillator in the radio is right, all you'd need is a coil and
variable capacitor. Some crystal oscillators work with an LC circuit
connected instead of a crystal, some won't work that way.

But this is really a silly idea. You'd have to build a nice stable
oscillator, one that worked up towards the near 30MHz, and with good
calibration. Unless you get fancy, you'd have to have a bandswitch
for the oscillator to cover the full 30MHz needed, which is extra
complication and a source of instability.

It would work to give you a peak at full coverage, but I sure
wouldn't suggest it as a regular thing.

That's the whole point of the receiver. It's in effect a receiver
that tunes a fixed 500KHz segment of the spectrum (I can't remember what
frequency range) with a crystal controlled converter ahead of it to
cover the different bands. The variable oscillator thus can cover
just a small segment (which gives that uniform calibration across the
bands), and at a low enough frequency to be stable. Plus, it doesn't need
to be switched to change bands. You lose the key feature if you toss out
the crystal control of the converter and use a variable oscillator there.

At this point, it shouldn't be that much trouble to build a synthesizer
that makes the first oscillator as stable as a crystal, but allows a
signal that can be tuned in 500KHz steps across the 1 to 30MHz range.
A 500KHz reference is pretty easy to filter, unlike synthesizers that
have 1KHz or lower steps. That's what everyone went to almost forty years
ago when solid state meant synthesizers were relatively easy to build and
there were still lots of receivers that didn't tune the whole shortwave
band because the cost of crystals were too high.

An alternative is to study the oscillator and decide if it will be fussy
about crystals or not. If it's not, then start looking for cheap crystals
of appropriate frequency, and then use those. The manual for the receiver
will give the formula for ordering crystals, but that would be costly.
What some noticed with that design of receiver in decades past was that
one could often get by with additional coverage by using oddball crystals.
So instead of paying to have a crystal ground for a specific frequency,
say 22MHz, you might find one that 21.454MHz and live with having to
calculate the frequency (or make a chart). The frequency will still be
as accurate as the dial, you just have to add the oddball crystal
frequency to know where it is tuning. Or if the oscillator is of
the right type, one might find an 11MHz crystal and it would not only
oscillate in the receiver's oscillator but put a good signal out at
22MHz only, so you get the frequency range you want.

Michael

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

ooops, I reckon I had been thinking of the older tube type (cat warmers)
radios.
cuhulin

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

On Mar 26, 1:15*am, bpnjensen wrote:
An Allied SX-190. *This radio, while not quite the best thing out
there, was pretty darn good for 1970's vintage, and had some nice
features - HAS some nice features - that helped the DX.

Just got me one in really nice shape. *Clean as a whistle, sensitive,
and everything works. *The guy who sold it to me did some of the mods
on it to sweeten the thing up, and it sounds great. *It doesn't have
all the modern bells and whistles, but it has decent selectivity with
its mechanical filters, tunes easily and accurately to within 0.5 kHz
(try that with almost any other consumer-grade analogue RX) and it
sounds clean and clear with its matching speaker.

Overloads a little bit on 31 meters, and maybe on 41 and 49. *Easily
resolved by putting the AF Gain all the way up and using the RF gain
for volume control.

Just listened to VOA Botswana relay on 9885, BBC from Cyprus on 12035
sandwiched between VoRs powerhouses 5 kHz up and down, and a bunch of
other good stuff. *Hams sound like they're in the room with me. This
thing is FUN, and is a real pip :-)

Bruce Jensen

Good deal Bruce, it's a kick when you pickup a new piece. I think
everyone should get a new receiver at least every five to seven
years.:-)

Just got a new old radio...SX-190
 

On Mar 27, 2:59*am, Gregg wrote:
On Mar 26, 1:15*am, bpnjensen wrote:





An Allied SX-190. *This radio, while not quite the best thing out
there, was pretty darn good for 1970's vintage, and had some nice
features - HAS some nice features - that helped the DX.

Just got me one in really nice shape. *Clean as a whistle, sensitive,
and everything works. *The guy who sold it to me did some of the mods
on it to sweeten the thing up, and it sounds great. *It doesn't have
all the modern bells and whistles, but it has decent selectivity with
its mechanical filters, tunes easily and accurately to within 0.5 kHz
(try that with almost any other consumer-grade analogue RX) and it
sounds clean and clear with its matching speaker.

Overloads a little bit on 31 meters, and maybe on 41 and 49. *Easily
resolved by putting the AF Gain all the way up and using the RF gain
for volume control.

Just listened to VOA Botswana relay on 9885, BBC from Cyprus on 12035
sandwiched between VoRs powerhouses 5 kHz up and down, and a bunch of
other good stuff. *Hams sound like they're in the room with me. This
thing is FUN, and is a real pip :-)

Bruce Jensen

Good deal Bruce, it's a kick when you pickup a new piece. I think
everyone should get a new receiver at least every five to seven
years.:-)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A real afficionado gets a different radio more often than
that !