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#51
October 10th 11, 10:27 PM
posted to rec.radio.shortwave,rec.sport.golf,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.guns
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(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
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#52
October 10th 11, 10:30 PM
posted to rec.radio.shortwave,rec.sport.golf,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.guns
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(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/10/11 16:27 , Alan Baker wrote:
In , John wrote: Your post is an excellent example of what I have found about "Apple People", they have a religious devotion to the platform ... Your post is an excellent example of someone who believes that anyone who sees value where you do not must do it out of religious devotion... Personally, the only reason I use a PC, and refuse MAC's, is that I write much of the software I use ... plus, I private contract to develop software on multiple platforms (even though I am retired, for the most part) ... while most of that could be done on a MAC, it simply would not make economic sense, for me ... I mean, I am in the business to make money -- NOT pay money to apple ... apple has worked hard in being one of the most proprietary corps I have ever seen, I think they can do that without me ... In what way is the Mac more "proprietary" than Windows from your perspective? The fact that they've always sold computers with their own OS? You can write software for that platform just as you can for Windows or for Linux. Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Actually, you have missed the point, gotten off track, the conversation I seen was focused on fools and overpaying for the same bang less buck will do ... It isn't that apple is evil for taking fools money, the fools always end up giving it to some one ... nor are the fools evil ... evil just doesn't really apply. If fools willingly give you money, I am not aware of any crimes which have been broken, nor evil criminals at fault ... I mean, like, DUH! Regards, JS As I said: How arrogant to assume that anyone who sees value in what you do not must be a fool... It's a cultural standard, today. |
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#53
October 10th 11, 10:31 PM
posted to rec.radio.shortwave,rec.sport.golf,alt.conspiracy
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(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 12:02:04 -0700, John Smith
wrote: Not for decades - forever. Each generation is dumber, has poorer values, and is in every way worse than the previous generation - as defined by the previous generation. Everything good peaked at the previous generation after millennia of improvement, but is now going down hill. For any value of "now" that you wish to use getting its previous generation to make the valuation. Well, an example of that might be my own childhood, and that "past generation." Eighty-percent of the people owned their own homes, twenty-percent were buying (mortgages, renting, etc.) -- today that is totally upside down and an excellent indication of the trouble we are in ... So is renting an example of a generation being dumber? They choose to rent instead of buy because they are dumb? Or is it they are dumb enough to create the economy where it made more sense to rent than to buy? -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
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#54
October 10th 11, 10:34 PM
posted to rec.radio.shortwave,rec.sport.golf,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.guns
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(OT) Steve Jobs.
On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 15:12:08 -0500, RD Sandman
wrote: Windows doesn't hold patents on the hardware, to run their software, just for starters ... and, they don't have an iphone, or even an idildo, for that matter! ROFLOL So? Apple's suddenly an evil empire because they make hardware and Microsoft doesn't? Microsoft does make hardware. It is called a mouse. And it is in game machines. -- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department." - James Madison |
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#55
October 10th 11, 11:01 PM
posted to rec.radio.shortwave,alt.conspiracy
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(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/10/2011 2:07 PM, x=usr(1536) wrote:
On 10/10/11 11:59 AM, John Smith wrote: On 10/10/2011 4:21 AM, Joe from Kokomo wrote: On 10/10/2011 3:13 AM, Alan Baker wrote: Or it could be what I've observed year after year: someone who switches to the Mac almost never switches back to the PC. Have you also considered economics? Macs ain't cheap...and once people have all that Mac money invested, they might be reluctant to change. I had my first Apple II back in 1981. Loved it! Then along came the Mac -- closed architecture, NO expansion slots. IBM PCs then came on the scene with -- whadda ya know -- open architecture and expansion slots, an idea that Apple abandoned and IBM adopted. To this very day, IBM has TONS more ham radio, astronomy and science software, expansion cards and applications than the Mac. If you like a toaster/appliance, the Mac is just fine. Valid point(s.) Except that some of them are not entirely correct. I'll agree that Apple's hardware isn't cheap in comparison to Windows-based PCs, but you're getting a fast, stable OS that is pretty much tailored to run on the hardware - and while the hardware uses much the same componentry as you'll find in any x64-based PC, the hardware has been designed to be supportive of the OS, not the other way around. This leads to a longer useful life of the hardware even once it's been relegated to a secondary post-replacement role. Apple has not abandoned the open architecture idea: it lives on in the desktop machines outside of the iMac range. Last time I opened mine up, there were slots. Lots of them, and compatible with various flavours of PCI, SATA, and other standard architectures, as it happens. Yes, iMacs are sealed units (effectively, though there are still upgrades that can be performed on them), but so are the all-in-one PCs from major manufacturers such as Dell. As for the Windows platform having more software available for any purpose (not just the ones mentioned): well, yeah. It does. But how many variations on a theme are actually useful? I can't think of a time where it's been better to have multiple software packages installed that all do about the same thing rather than one that just does it well. Also note that OS X can build and run a large chunk of the software available for *nix systems as well (see: Macports, Darwinports, Homebrew, and other port managers), so tools and applications already in use on other platforms can typically be installed and used on a Mac. End result: more software choice. Please don't take away from this that I'm a Mac zealot (I'm really a UNIX bigot) - it's just tedious to hear the same things said about the platform over and over that aren't factually-accurate. - x. You confuse "stable" with being "limited like a child." You simply can' screw up a MAC like you can a PC because it doesn't allow it ... the PC comes, out of the box, WIDE OPEN! Windows 7 is full of a bunch of nag screens now, asking for rights to install a driver, right to install software, rights to make changes to the registry, etc. ... but morons still don't know what this means and allows it. Truth is, unless you tell a PC to allow a virus/malware, it is NOT going to do it and is just at "stable" (your words) as a MAC. This assuming you have allowed microsoft to automatically update drivers, software and malware/virus protection -- things which the MAC does without ever giving you opportunity to ignore/stop/refuse ... You definition of "stable" means, to me, "stopping morons from compromising their systems." As I say, PC don't have a "mommy and daddy" protecting you, you will get asked a simple question, about allowing the changes ... if you really don't understand the changes you are allowing, you might not wanna' allow them ... Basically, linux/UNIX and mainframes are the same, totally open ... I can't count the linux machines I have seen compromised which the owners are telling me "linux doesn't get viruses like windows", and, basically, they are correct -- IT IS THEM WHO HAVE ALLOWED IT! And, of course, on a main frame you have a system administrator protecting you and making decisions for you, and his/her FIRST decision will be to NOT ALLOW YOU TO MAKE CHANGES ... roflol On a PC, you are GOD ... pure and simple, with the power of GOD comes great responsibility ... makes sure you have the wisdom to be a GOD before proceeding ... GODS don't make mistakes, yanno'? grin Regards, JS |
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#57
October 11th 11, 12:33 AM
posted to rec.radio.shortwave,alt.conspiracy
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(OT) Steve Jobs.
On 10/10/11 3:01 PM, John Smith wrote:
You confuse "stable" with being "limited like a child." Nope. Please tell me where I made that comparison; it's all yours. You simply can' screw up a MAC like you can a PC because it doesn't allow it ... the PC comes, out of the box, WIDE OPEN! Disagreed. The threat models are different, but I will concede that OS X' security track record has generally been better than Windows', even taking into account that there have been four major versions of Windows released in parallel with the history of OS X. Windows 7 is full of a bunch of nag screens now, asking for rights to install a driver, right to install software, rights to make changes to the registry, etc. ... but morons still don't know what this means and allows it. Big deal; it's the same on any *nix-based OS (and I'm including OS X in that for the sake of the argument). Let an idiot allow malware to do something in God Mode and it's just as bad on any platform. Truth is, unless you tell a PC to allow a virus/malware, it is NOT going to do it and is just at "stable" (your words) as a MAC. Wrong. There have been plenty of system-level vulnerabilities in Windows that have allowed exactly the kinds of scenarios you're proposing here take place *without* user intervention. Also, don't confuse 'security' with 'stability'. Two different things, though one may occasionally depend on the other. This assuming you have allowed microsoft to automatically update drivers, software and malware/virus protection -- things which the MAC does without ever giving you opportunity to ignore/stop/refuse ... Automatic Updates usually address the worm o' the week *after* the fact. That's not to say that they're never proactive about problems, but usually the patch comes in for the major problem after it's hit CNN. By the way, you can refuse updates on the Mac (which incidentally is not an acronym, so no need to wear out the caps lock key typing it in block capitals). You may not know how to do that, but your ignorance of the OS X GUI does not mean that your assertion is in any way, shape, or form correct. Again. You definition of "stable" means, to me, "stopping morons from compromising their systems." I don't believe that I ever provided you with my definition of stability in this context beyond the BSOD, so you're making an assumption there again. Nice try, though. As I say, PC don't have a "mommy and daddy" protecting you, you will get asked a simple question, about allowing the changes ... if you really don't understand the changes you are allowing, you might not wanna' allow them ... Welcome to OS X - or pretty much every other *nix variant out there. Basically, linux/UNIX and mainframes are the same, totally open ... I can't count the linux machines I have seen compromised which the owners are telling me "linux doesn't get viruses like windows", and, basically, they are correct -- IT IS THEM WHO HAVE ALLOWED IT! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH*deep breath*HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA You haven't been trolling for very long, have you? Here's a hint: if you want to be an effective troll, learn to troll effectively. Now, giving you the benefit of the doubt, you may just be speaking from a position of complete ignorance. And that's OK; the world evidently needs dumb people too, though I've personally found them substantially less than necessary. However, I would have expected someone capable of manually poking hex values into memory to be a little more... Savvy. You clearly have no idea of the difference between a worm, a virus, a trojan, or an application- or system-level vulnerability. I'll leave configuration (either at the system or application level) out of this for now, because I wouldn't want to confuse you any further. Really, you need to up your game. I'll give you a half-check mark for trying, though. Effort does count. And, of course, on a main frame you have a system administrator protecting you and making decisions for you, and his/her FIRST decision will be to NOT ALLOW YOU TO MAKE CHANGES ... roflol Of course you do, and there's no such thing as the 'administrator' account (local or domain) on a Windows box. Bless your little heart. On a PC, you are GOD ... pure and simple, with the power of GOD comes great responsibility ... makes sure you have the wisdom to be a GOD before proceeding ... GODS don't make mistakes, yanno'? grin Can I have some of what you're huffing? It's clearly the good ****. - x. |
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#58
October 11th 11, 12:50 AM
posted to rec.radio.shortwave,rec.sport.golf,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.guns
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(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , Alan wrote: In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com, wrote: On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote: That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form [over] substance ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -- Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one. If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market. They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing. I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the "creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are insufferable boors. Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing". How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools. Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either. What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four years ago? Intel won. Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is a tad bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is just as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper education and/or a virus/malware scanner ... If Linux is "surely the equal, or better, of Windows", then Mac OS X is surely the superior of Windows, because it is surely the better of Linux. It offers all that Linux offers and is easier to use. Plus, when you give people a product with is dirt free, they just can never really trust it, they have to suffer payment or they just have "that uncomfortable feeling." ROFLOL Regards, JS -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
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#59
October 11th 11, 12:51 AM
posted to rec.radio.shortwave,rec.sport.golf,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.guns
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(OT) Steve Jobs.
In article ,
John Smith wrote: On 10/10/2011 3:19 PM, BAR wrote: In , says... On 10/10/2011 4:49 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , Alan wrote: In articlejoednXxxSuLvPQzTnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@earthlink .com, wrote: On Sun, 09 Oct 2011 11:03:20 +0900, Brenda Ann wrote: That's not the business Apple is in; they sell a lifestyle of form [over] substance ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -- -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- -- -- Besides, Apple was extant in the market before PC's (the original Apple computer was something like $3000, a clone was about $2300, IIRC). Apple maintained a following and indeed an increasing market base even after PC's got so cheap that most anyone could afford one. If someone likes a product enough to pay what seems to be an exhorbitant price for it, even in the face of a much cheaper alternative, then that is what they call "market forces" in operation. The consumer, in this case, has actually set the price by buying the product. If nobody were buying it, it would either become cheaper or taken off the market. They subsidised and strongarmed their way into schools; a whole generation equated Apple with computing. It's definitely a fashion thing. I was the IT guy at a TV network west coast headquarters. All the "creative" types insisted on iMacs; they refused to work on windows machines (this is for typing-not editing). Hollywood creative types are insufferable boors. Of course... ...someone insisting on a product must be a "fashion thing". How exactly did Apple "strongarm" their way into schools. Perhaps this genius can also explain why more and more college students in science and engineering are switching to Macs? Of their own free will, that is. And not to use Windoze on them, either. What is Apple at now - 11%, third largest, up from less than 5% four years ago? Intel won. Linux is surely the equal, or better, of windows -- however, it is a tad bit more difficult to use (unbutu perhaps breaks that rule) and is just as prone to viruses and such, if used by people without proper education and/or a virus/malware scanner ... Plus, when you give people a product with is dirt free, they just can never really trust it, they have to suffer payment or they just have "that uncomfortable feeling." ROFLOL Regards, JS You get what you pay for. When it is free that is exactly what you get, free software. We tend to go with Red Hat ES and SUSE Linux. These have proved to be the most stable and most apps are supported on them. I have just gone through migrating a class of applications from Solaris (SPARC) to Windows. The rational is that there was no need to have your "highly educated" workforce supporting the applications on UNIX/Linux when they can be supported by just about anyone on a Windows system. And, since they are on Windows they easily run in a VM. The cost went from about $25,000 a year to about $300 for the systems. The run support is expected to be about $2,500 for the partial off-shore Windows head. Well, red hat and suse have what some don't, proprietary hype and cutsy GUI tools and implement their own "methods of doing things" ... the most "honest linux", which stays true to form, the most, to the old UNIX, is slackware ... simply pick the GUI interface you want to use with it, or are most comfortable with ... coming from times before the "GREAT GUI GOD", and related/associated "biblical scriptures in 'GUI syntax'", I use a command line as much as possible ... but then, up until vista, I knew how to turn off the windows gui and go mainly commandline (almost like a 32-bit "super dos!") ... the gui just got too tough to fight ... I now use the Great GUI Gods tools ... Well you're religion has now been made clear... -- Alan Baker Vancouver, British Columbia http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg |
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#60
October 11th 11, 01:25 AM
posted to rec.radio.shortwave,alt.conspiracy
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(OT) Steve Jobs.
"x=usr(1536)" wrote in message ... Basically, linux/UNIX and mainframes are the same, totally open ... I can't count the linux machines I have seen compromised which the owners are telling me "linux doesn't get viruses like windows", and, basically, they are correct -- IT IS THEM WHO HAVE ALLOWED IT! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH*deep breath*HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There has been one particular invasion (a keystroke reader) of a high-security Unix system in the news lately... that of someone hacking into the software that runs the Predator drones... |
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