|
When there is an immediate threat to life or property, anyone can legally use
anything to summon help. I'm talking about things like a heart attack or fire here. On the high seas, it would be a Mayday call. I don't think it's practical, though, to carry an unauthorized ham rig or police radio for an emergency that will probably not happen. But use of an authorized person's radio, when that person is incapacitated, is okay. By the way... Cingular service in the Galveston area is still overloaded. I guess the Houston hub continues to be busy. Bill, K5BY T2GB040061 |
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 10:25:21 -0700, Trooperdude Trooperdude in rec.radio.scanner - :
There is also sutff like Vonage and the other voice over IP "appliances" you attach to your broadband connection for phone service, however VONAGE over something like DirecWay satellite would be a good emergency backup, as long as you could provide your own power. I hope this was suppose to be a joke, cause it is funny as hell trying to imagine VOIP going on through a DirecWay. |
And in the end the governments of the world will sell off the bands. Thanks to all the loosers! Heck, It will give the cranky old farts more time to complain about their hemorrhoids on the internet. |
Offbreed ...
^ Frank wrote: ^ Markeau ... ^ ^ Would the FCC prosecute someone for using a ham rig ^ ^ without a license if there were no other way to ^ ^ communicate that ... "emergency" help was needed? ^ A radio tuned to your local police department would get ^ quicker help. ^ Come up on a cop freq? ^ ^ That's not *all* you'll get. You'll get the same if you came up on any frequency you aren't licensed to transmit on. Cop frequencies are no different, except that you'll get help faster. Frank |
In rec.radio.scanner mad amoeba wrote:
(all of it snipped) Sorry, if this has been mentioned (I can't read all 60 replies) but .. While the radio in question can recieve shortwave, it can't transmit there (and even if you could modify it to .. it would still only be FM and low powered) Without "repeaters" a hand held ham radio is very, very limited in range. There are other possibilites .. such as the Yaesu 817, but you'd need a higher class of ham licence and (realistically) a bigger, better antenna (and a lot of luck) for HF (High Frequency .. aka 'shortwave') communications. Richard in Boston, MA, USA |
On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:57:20 GMT, KB9WFK wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 12:21:51 -0500, "Markeau" wrote: "Frank Dresser" wrote in message You need a license if you want to transmit legally. Would the FCC prosecute someone for using a ham rig without a license if there were no other way to communicate that someone was injured or other "emergency" help was needed? Seems like a mobile ham rig would be a nice backup in such cases. As long as it is a true emergency then anyone can use any frequency available to them. Just 'injured' may not be enough, but any life threatening situation will justify it. That includes police freqs. AFIK, that is correct. However, as has been pointed out before, "the devil is in the details". Can you "prove" that you needed to use these frequencies? If you stop to help a victim of a road accident, can you "prove" that it was necessary to move him? [Yeah, he may have run into a tree, his car is on fire, but can you safely drag him out? Depends on whether your state has a "Good Samaritan Law" perhaps?] Can person "A" legally kill person "B"? Depends on the circumstances, actually. "You are behaving like a troll, disguising your attacks as reasonable discussion." 'Alan Connor' Ah well, whatever you think I suppose. How long have you posted on misc.survivalism? erniegalts |
On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 03:01:27 GMT, erniegalts
wrote: On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 20:30:33 -0400, Bob Brock wrote: On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 22:13:23 GMT, erniegalts wrote: On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 04:07:28 -0400, Bob Brock wrote: On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 07:51:40 GMT, erniegalts wrote: On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 06:54:36 GMT, Hagbard Celine wrote: Bob Brock wrote: General Class license still requires a Morse Code test. Morse has not been "wiped." It has however, been lowered for the two higher class licenses from 13 and 20 wpm to 5 wpm for both licenses. Morse is not required for the Technician license which give full priviliges on VHF/UHF. So, once again ernie, you are wrong. Not required here for some years now, at least for what you are calling a "Technician license" which covers 2 metres and is useful for communication in that band. Are you going to call me wrong on this issue??? Please advise. Which issue do you want me to call you wrong on ernie? The first piece of inaccurate information that you posted of this metamorphisis of it? On your initial statement, yes you were wrong. In case you forgot this was your initial statement... "Not difficult to get an amateur license these days now that the code requirement has been wiped. Anyone who knows a bit about radio should be able to study the regs and pass an exam allowing VHF operation on 2 metres, and the "general class" [ or "full call" ] exam is not that much harder." Don't know the siatuation there, Brock, but the requirement has been wiped here So, you are telling the guy in the NE US to move to Oz to get his license? BTW, that news article was only a month ago. Does the government in Oz move that fast? I don't think so.... Dunno if they have or not, haven't bothered to check. The issue is that you have accused me of being in error, and I have proved you wrong. No you haven't ernie. Morse Code is still required for amatuer HF in the US where he lived. You cannot logically blame me if you refuse to keep up with current news on such issues, and this was more than a month ago. Perhaps you don't belong to the ARRL, or perhaps they haven't mentioned this issue? Or perhaps since neither he nor I live in Oz, I simply don't care ernie. You are so binary in your thinking. |
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 17:47:57 -0400, "Bill Crocker"
wrote: Most all the hand-held amateur radio equipment, is almost useless without the aid of a repeater station. That is a rather broad statement. It depends greatly on where you live (or are) in relation to where you want to talk to. I live in a very ham dense area and can make dozens of contacts on simplex. I don't know how many repeaters are backed up by emergency power supplies. I would hope most of them, but if they're not, don't plan on reaching anyone more than a couple miles away. Glancing through the repeater directory, I'd guess about a third of them. How do you define, "a couple of miles"? My Icom T2H (a 7 Watt hand held) can make it from my house to the repeater 18 miles away. If I can hit that repeater then I can talk to anyone between it and me on simplex, and that is with the rubber duck antenna. Using a home made twin-lead J-Pole antenna I talked on the repeater from downtown Chicago which is a 36 miles trip. On 2 Meters, get your antenna high and you can really reach out. Height is Might. H.F. equipment, on the other hand, is usually at least 50~100 watts, and has the ability to reach extremely long distances, without the need of a repeater. Wattage doesn't mean a whole lot with HF because it isn't the power that enables the longer distances. My 2 Meter rigs at home are 50 Watts. Actually, most HF rigs are 5 to 10 Watts and an external amp will be used to increase power. Depending on conditions, you can talk all 50 states with 10 Watts on HF. When you think about it, standard C.B. radio equipment should do well, providing there is someone available on the other end. IF you are in an area with CB users and IF they are helpful and not just kids wanting to screw around. Also, CB, being limited to 4 Watts is typicallty very short range. If you are in an area with a lot of CB users that are 'adult' and use it as a tool then it may be the proper answer. Same for FRS and GMRS. Where I am, CB is worthless due to the people that use it. If you can't top someone elses signal then you aren't going to talk. Bill Crocker KB9WFK "You are behaving like a troll, disguising your attacks as reasonable discussion." 'Alan Connor' |
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:08:19 -0400, Rex Tincher
wrote: On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 00:12:21 GMT, "mad amoeba" wrote: snip As far as I understand this is an handheld ham radio So it requires a ham radio license. Scroll down the page at http://www.arrl.org/hamradio.html for info on getting a ham license. which also functions as a scanner and can also receive on a shortwave band. So it will allow me to communicate with people far away even in urban setting, it is portable and it will also allow me to monitor news as well as police/firefighters etc. Am I right? Yes. Except that 2 meter and 440 MHz radios, especially small ones, have limited range of only a few miles. They depend on repeaters to relay their messages long distances, and the repeaters run on electric power. How do you define "a few miles"? Like I said in another post, I can go 18 miles on my 7 Watt 2 Meter HT. Put a decent antenna on it and I can talk a lot further. Our club repeater has over a 50 mile range and only puts out 25 Watts. Depending on usage, our repeater can go 4 or 5 days with no outside power. KB9WFK Yaesu VX-2R http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/ht/0176.html snip "You are behaving like a troll, disguising your attacks as reasonable discussion." 'Alan Connor' |
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 20:30:33 -0400, Bob Brock
wrote: On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 22:13:23 GMT, erniegalts wrote: On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 04:07:28 -0400, Bob Brock wrote: On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 07:51:40 GMT, erniegalts wrote: On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 06:54:36 GMT, Hagbard Celine wrote: Bob Brock wrote: General Class license still requires a Morse Code test. Morse has not been "wiped." It has however, been lowered for the two higher class licenses from 13 and 20 wpm to 5 wpm for both licenses. Morse is not required for the Technician license which give full priviliges on VHF/UHF. So, once again ernie, you are wrong. Not required here for some years now, at least for what you are calling a "Technician license" which covers 2 metres and is useful for communication in that band. Are you going to call me wrong on this issue??? Please advise. Which issue do you want me to call you wrong on ernie? The first piece of inaccurate information that you posted of this metamorphisis of it? On your initial statement, yes you were wrong. In case you forgot this was your initial statement... "Not difficult to get an amateur license these days now that the code requirement has been wiped. Anyone who knows a bit about radio should be able to study the regs and pass an exam allowing VHF operation on 2 metres, and the "general class" [ or "full call" ] exam is not that much harder." Don't know the siatuation there, Brock, but the requirement has been wiped here So, you are telling the guy in the NE US to move to Oz to get his license? BTW, that news article was only a month ago. Does the government in Oz move that fast? I don't think so.... Me either, and I doubt they would take it upon themselves to go against international treaty to do so. "You are behaving like a troll, disguising your attacks as reasonable discussion." 'Alan Connor' |
i glad to hear at least someone cares about their costumers. What other
providers besides verizon were working at least for a while.? Trooperdude wrote in message ... On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 03:07:07 GMT, "mad amoeba" wrote: I know that there are several providers and most of them were out. I might be wrong about Verizon but most of the cellular phone were out of action which was my point. Because if that's why most people have cellulars so that no matter where they are or what happens they can contact their family etc. But now as far as im concerned cellulars are not reliable. Perhaps not reliable for the "average" person. Verizon kept a percentage of capacity in reserve for public safety, and the new public safety phones have priority, so will knock "no priority" calls off the tower if they place a call. |
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 15:05:30 GMT, helmsman
wrote: On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 14:38:55 GMT, Ron Hardin wrote: What's wrong with not communicating during a blackout? It's a perfect time to do something else. Depending on the emergency it may cost you your life :'( Some good points on this list! The best way to communicate is with a ham radio. Here is a list "THAT SHOULD BE PRINTED NOW!!" and put away so you have it of information that will help during the next time something goe's wrong. A short list of things and facts to have on hand if things start looking grim - If you print this you will ALWAYS have it. o A normally active adult needs to drink at least two quarts of water daily. Intense physical activity can double that amount. Children, nursing mothers and people in poor health will need more. o A medium size dog requires about one gallon of water per day; a cat, about one pint. o City water is generally already treated. No additional treatment is necessary unless the system is compromised. Which it is likely to be, especially following a power failure, flood or earthquake. All city water systems have lots of major and minor leaks. Household meter readings will never total the reading on the master meter with the possible exception of a brand new system. Minor leaks cannot be located and repaired until water shows up on the surface, and in sandy or gravelly subsoils often has to be a large leak before it will show up. Pipes often run through soil with chemical or bacteriological contamination, and the only thing that keeps the system safe is that it is normally constantly pressurized. However, if the pressure fails, then people drawing water from lines on a slope or hill will cause a vacuum to be drawn on the mains and service lines drawing contamination into the pipes. In any disaster, is safer to assume contamination whether warnings have been issued or not. Boiling will kill most if not all pathogenic [disease causing] viruses, bacteria, etc. but will not remove most chemicals. It is far safer to keep at least a three day supply of water, and many keep at least 2 weeks worth. Store water in clean, deodorized, food-grade plastic containers with screw-on caps (soft drink, milk bottles or drums, for example). Avoid using containers that will decompose or break, such as paper milk cartons or glass bottles. Replace stored tap water every six months. o Do not use containers that retain strong odors from previously stored foods, those that held toxic products or those without an airtight seal. o Store your water in a dark place away from paint and petroleum-based products, acids or anything having objectionable odors (i.e., fertilizer or household cleaners). Laboratory tests confirm that chlorine used to treat water and guard against bacterial growth lasts longer in refrigerated water than water kept at room temperature. o To use the water in your pipes, let air into the plumbing by turning on the faucet at the highest point in your house and draining the water from the faucet at the lowest point. o To use the water in your water heater, be sure the electricity or gas is off. Open the drain at the bottom of the tank. Start the water flowing by turning off the cold water intake valve above the hot water tank and turning on any hot water faucet. Do not turn on the gas or electricity when the tank is empty. o Disinfect rainwater or water from snow before drinking. o Boiling is the best way to disinfect water. Bring the water to a rolling boil for five minutes. Let cool before drinking. To improve taste, pour water back and forth repeatedly between two containers to aerate the water. Bleach directions below from Clorox.com. o You can disinfect water using household bleach. Choose a brand that does not contain soaps or other additives. The label should read 5.25% percent of sodium hypochlorite. To treat one gallon of clear water, use 16 drops of bleach or 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons. If the water is cloudy, or if the bleach is over one year old, use twice as much bleach. Stir the water vigorously and let it sit for 30 minutes. Pour the water back and forth between two containers several times to improve taste. Repeat if no bleach smell after 30 minutes. o If you use an eyedropper or measuring spoon to add bleach, do not use them for any other purpose. o Adding powdered drinks like Kool-Aid and Tang will help disguise odd tasting water from disinfecting by boiling or bleach. In an Emergency use water in: Pipes, Water heater = turn off first!, toilet tank-not bowl, ice cubes, rain water and snow. 1. Flashlights for everyone and enough batteries to last one week. 2. A battery-operated radio and enough batteries to ensure one week of continuous play. 3. A regular telephone that is connected to telephone land lines by a standard telephone wall jack. (Cordless telephones and telephones that plug into an electrical outlet may not work if there is no electricity.) 4. A three-day supply (minimum) of stored tap water and nonperishable food. 5. A manual (nonelectric) can opener. 6. Paper plates, cups, napkins, plastic eating utensils, and paper towels. 7. An alternative heating source, such as a generator and electrical heaters or fireplace. Stock up on extra firewood. 8. An alternative means to cook food, such as a charcoal or propane grill and enough charcoal and lighter fluid or propane to last a week. 9. A fire extinguisher. 10. Liquid chlorine bleach with 5.25 percent sodium hypochlorite and no additives 11. An eyedropper or measuring spoons. 12. Extra garbage bags. 13. Sanitary wipes or no rinse antibacterial hand wash for cleaning hands without water. 14. No rinse shampoo for washing hair without water. 15. A fully stocked first aid kit, including any specific prescription requirements. Depending on nature and duration of disaster people who are dependent on prescription medication often immediately rush out and refill scrips whether have used existing scrips or not. Most prescription medications are fairly expensive and some go out of date. Therefore, most pharmacists don't carry much extra stock, often relying on almost daily deliveries from wholesalers. Most stock systems are electronic these days, and if power is out pharmacies can easily run out of items without even realizing it, wholesalers have difficulty filling orders if their systems are down, or ordering more from manufacturers. If really need a medication, would advise keeping at least two week supply at all times. 16. A shut off wrench (to turn off household gas and water). 17. Extra cash. 18. Extra Ammo - BE PREPARED, BECAUSE IF YOUR NOT ? |
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 00:02:39 -0400, Bob Brock
wrote: On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 03:39:14 GMT, erniegalts wrote: On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 03:03:05 GMT, "mad amoeba" wrote: Not difficult to get an amateur license these days now that the code requirement has been wiped. Anyone who knows a bit about radio should be able to study the regs and pass an exam allowing VHF operation on 2 metres, and the "general class" [ or "full call" ] exam is not that much harder. General Class license still requires a Morse Code test. Morse has not been "wiped." It has however, been lowered for the two higher class licenses from 13 and 20 wpm to 5 wpm for both licenses. Morse is not required for the Technician license which give full priviliges on VHF/UHF. So, once again ernie, you are wrong. http://www.arrl.org/pio/hamlic.html Sorry, Brock, it is you that are wrong, and for the second time in a matter of weeks. First time was when you accused me of being unable to calculate the resonant length of a 1/4 wave vertical. A quick advanced search on the net would have shown you that have mentioned this in several posts, see following excerpt from one of the early ones. ============================= From: "Wombat" Subject: Handheld Ham Radio Antenna(e) Questions Date: 1999/03/01 Message-ID: [snip] 1== Not familiar with these particular transceivers, the formula for any full-length quarter wave whip working against a ground plane is [in metric measurements] Length in meters = 75 divided by operating frequency The 2 metre band extends from 144 to 148 MHz. So if were cutting an antenna for center of this band at 146 MHz would be 75 / 146 = 0.513698630137. So a quarter-wave vertical would be roughly .513 metres long, or 513 mm. (millimeters) or 20.2244 inches. 75/ 440 = 170.455 mm or 6.71081inches. 2== I assume you will be getting an amateur license before operate on these frequencies, as governments tend to take a dim view of unlicensed operation, and amateurs will go to considerable lengths to catch unlicensed operators. 3== The above formula gives the theoretical lengths for a resonant 1/4 wave working against a ground plane. Some hand transceivers use the unit itself or the operators hand to act as a "ground plane" A "rubber ducky" antenna is often just a resonant 1/4 wave wound into a shorter coil, and does restrict range. ================================ Actually, have done a fair bit of experimentation with antennas. Corner reflectors, trough reflectors, yagis, arrays, non-resonant long wires, rhombics, etc. You second mistake was the belief that code was still a requirement, although the International Telecommunications Union end this almost a month ago. Were you involved in previous debates on need for current control on LEDs, the differences between an a electrochemical cell and a battery made up from same? Don't remember offhand, but you seem very anxious to catch me in a mistake. Why is this, Brock? erniegalts |
"erniegalts" wrote in message ... The 2 metre band extends from 144 to 148 MHz. So if were cutting an antenna for center of this band at 146 MHz would be 75 / 146 = 0.513698630137. So a quarter-wave vertical would be roughly .513 metres long, or 513 mm. (millimeters) or 20.2244 inches. This is good math, but usually for a 1/4 wave radiator, 5% is subtracted for velocity factor, leaving the basic 1/4 wave radiator for 2m at approximately 19". |
If you're looking for an incredibly full-featured Ham Transceiver, look no
further than the Yaesu-817. 2-meter and 6-meter for local use, and then pretty much everything else for long distance. All you need is a good portable antenna and tuner and you'll never be out of touch. It's a "legal" QSL radio with it's maximum 5watt output and can be set up as a base station (many people have) or slip it into it's case and sling it over your shoulder for true portability. But by the way, you need to get your Ham license before you get one. Reputable Ham dealers will NOT sell you a transceiver unless you furnish your call sign that matches the address you want them to mail it to. MJC "mad amoeba" wrote in message . net... I was affected by the recent blackout in North East. That got me thinking of how would one communicate during such an event. Electricity including phones were out. Cellular phones didn't work either. So the only way of receiving informaiton was by radio. My old Sony wm-gx670 did quite nicely. But what if I would need to communicate with my relatives or even cops to let them know of an emmergency. If telephone/cellular/internet are not available what are my other options? Let's say people I want to communicate with are more than several miles away in an urban area. That makes CB radio useless--right? So then as far as I understand using ham radio is my only option. With that you can either get in touch with your relatives directly, provided they have ham radio as well, or you can call some person in an area without blackout and tell them to call police/ambulance etc if that's what you need. Not knowing much myself about scanners/shortwaves/hams myself I want to ask you guys with more experience if the below piece of equipment is what I need. As far as I understand this is an handheld ham radio which also functions as a scanner and can also receive on a shortwave band. So it will allow me to communicate with people far away even in urban setting, it is portable and it will also allow me to monitor news as well as police/firefighters etc. Am I right? Yaesu VX-2R http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/ht/0176.html the price is kind of steep but for all-in-one product I would be willing to pay it. |
It's simple to throw together a set of field telephones from 2 common
type American telephones (complete telephones). Simply connect the red and green wires with at least a 9 volt battery (up to 48 volts DC) in a big loop, but you'll have to play around with finding and adding the right value resistor to the loop to limit the volume. DC volts has a limited range tho. It's very complicated however, making a phone ring, so for your ringer you can salvage a couple door bells (or other DC volt device) to act as your ringer with the switch for each at the opposing end. You can pick up an ordinary phone at some dollar stores for about $7 each. Since you don't have to modify the phone itself, you can easily return it to common use. |
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message ... "KB9WFK" wrote in message ... How do you define "a few miles"? Like I said in another post, I can go 18 miles on my 7 Watt 2 Meter HT. Put a decent antenna on it and I can talk a lot further. Our club repeater has over a 50 mile range and only puts out 25 Watts. Depending on usage, our repeater can go 4 or 5 days with no outside power. KB9WFK I was able to hit a 'local' repeater with my HTX-202 using only the stock antenna from a distance in excess of 50 miles. This was from a place in the valley west of Salem, OR to a hillside east of Vancouver, WA. This was using 5 watts for clean copy. If one station is in a good location, even an HT can get very good range on 2m. The key element is antenna height. If the repeater antenna is high enough, you can get quite good distances. Or if your own antenna is high enough, same thing. Naturally if both antennas are high, possible distances increase. On the other hand, rubber duck antenna to rubber duck antenna at ground level, 2 to 5 miles will generally be the limit. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 06:34:35 +0900, "Brenda Ann"
wrote: "erniegalts" wrote in message .. . The 2 metre band extends from 144 to 148 MHz. So if were cutting an antenna for center of this band at 146 MHz would be 75 / 146 = 0.513698630137. So a quarter-wave vertical would be roughly .513 metres long, or 513 mm. (millimeters) or 20.2244 inches. This is good math, but usually for a 1/4 wave radiator, 5% is subtracted for velocity factor, leaving the basic 1/4 wave radiator for 2m at approximately 19". True, but the formula is only a rough guide anyway. Even at much lower frequencies there are a few variables, and at VHF and UHF wavelengths antenna length can be very critical. On Australian UHF CB band can make a nice little handheld 3 element Yagi out of a UHF socket and an old coathanger which will give around 3 or 4 dB gain. [Perfectionists would probably use aluminum, copper, or even silver wire, though. ] Passing thought: Will Brock rush into print claiming that copper is a better conductor than silver? :-) Corner reflectors or arrays usually a better choice for more gain, although even high gain rhrombics with theoretical 25 dB gain are a manageable size at UHF if looking for really reliable point to point communication. Can make up 9 DB collinear omnidirectional verticals for UHF from RG-8 coax and plastic electrical conduit, although fiberglass is better. Not much margin for error at these frequencies, though. Can make a pretty decent UHF TV antenna using an phased array made up of a chicken wire reflector and beer or soft drink cans as elements. Not as good as an 18 element Yagi, but cheap and easy alternative. Antennas can be great fun to play with. Was raised in a rural area, and when TV first became available some local farmers were spending a lot of money for tall masts and high gain Yagis to pull in a good VHF signal. However, I was highly amused when one old farmer who knew no antenna or propagation theory whatsoever pulled in nearly as good as signal by using a junked bedspring from a double bed, which he mounted on an old apple crate and leaned against a tree, using rubber from old inner tubes as insulation. He was just using flat 300 ohm lead in, split the antenna end and fitted with alligator clips, and played around with trial and error until found the proper feedpoint. He had no terrain advantage over the others and doubt if an expensive Yagi at a similar level would have worked much better. His neighbors who had spent a lot more on their antennas weren't quite as amused, though. :-) When I was a kid, a lot of amateurs used "home brew" equipment, but most amateurs these days seem to take their transceiver back to the dealer for anything more complicated than replacing an incandescent bulb or an LED indicator. :-) The radio scanner enthusiast might consider building a large discone antenna if has the space. No gain, but good SWR over many decades of frequency range. Simple to build, size of disk and skirt not especially critical as long as large enough to cover lowest frequency of interest. Most libraries should have a reasonably current ARRL Antenna handbook. erniegalts |
On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 18:22:00 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote: But by the way, you need to get your Ham license before you get one. Reputable Ham dealers will NOT sell you a transceiver unless you furnish your call sign that matches the address you want them to mail it to. There are not very many reputable ham dealers if that is the case. Many will sell without asking if you are a ham. There is no US requirement that you have a license to buy a transceiver , just to transmitt on one. Probably, but is it a good idea to have something that is illegal to use in most cases? Most hams are quite protective of their band allocations and spend a lot of time tracking down illegal users. Same thing happened here when UHF CB was introduced. CB sets on HF and UHF had to be licensed at the time. Most people who went on UHF when it was introduced were former users of HF Citizens Band and were determined to keep the idiots and children off UHF. Those who didn't use registered call signs, or otherwise didn't stick to regulations found that those with call signs would simply refuse to answer their transmissions. Having seen the 27 MHz service in cities deteriorate to the point where it wasn't useful most of the day, users of the new UHF service were determined that it didn't go the same way. Unlicensed operators were usually quickly reported to Department of Communications, which is Australian equivalent of the F.C.C. There were even viligantie groups doing transmitter hunts for illegal operators. These were often persuaded to sell their sets and go back to the 27 MHz "chicken band" if they couldn't bother to get a license or use proper procedure. Sometimes their equipment was sabatoged. However, am not about to give advice how this can be done, of course. Not that I would stoop to such activity, but some users enjoyed it. :-) If really interested on using amateur radio equipment for emergency use, should know at least some theory and practice. ....And as long as going to do this, why not learn the regulations as well and get a license? erniegalts |
There are not very many reputable ham dealers if that is the case. Many
will sell without asking if you are a ham. There is no US requirement that you have a license to buy a transceiver , just to transmitt on one. Probably, but is it a good idea to have something that is illegal to use in most cases? Most hams are quite protective of their band allocations and spend a lot of time tracking down illegal users. Guess that it is a differant point of view. Mine is that if someone pays money for a transceiver (especially a low band one so they can practice copying the code) they will have an investment and reason to get their license so they can operate all the bands. |
They cannot refuse to sell you the radio merely because you have no license. Back when licenses took 3 months to arrive (which wasn't all that long ago), many people purchased their gear and set up their station while they waited for the license. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE Even now as many take the test at hamfests and get the results back in a few days , it is nice to buy a rig at the hamfest and get it set up so you can use it in less than a week. DE KU4PT |
erniegalts wrote:
Wouldn't consider it "very complicated" to make a phone ring as only need to provide around 60 volts AC at 16 cycles or so. erniegalts Just what percentage of us do you think could do that? and from DC power? For about 98% of us it is "very complicated", and the one electronics tech among us doesn't need any help. |
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----------------------------- So ernie,where specifically was I wrong? Code has not been "wiped." It's been reduced to 5 WPM for the two higher class licenses required for operation on the HF band. Oh for ****s sake, will you ****ing people just STFU? Bob, I believe, if you read Ernie's original post, he said it was wiped, and then talked about using a 2m HT. The license to operate on 2m, Technician, had its morse code requirement 'wiped' a few years ago. Jesus ****ing christ, the signal-to-noise ratio in here is getting mighty ****ing low. You ****ers just aren't happy if you aren't gaining imaginary debating points on Usenet. |
In rec.radio.scanner KB9WFK wrote:
(snip) : How do you define, "a couple of miles"? My Icom T2H (a 7 Watt hand : held) can make it from my house to the repeater 18 miles away. If I : can hit that repeater then I can talk to anyone between it and me on : simplex, and that is with the rubber duck antenna. Using a home made : twin-lead J-Pole antenna I talked on the repeater from downtown : Chicago which is a 36 miles trip. : On 2 Meters, get your antenna high and you can really reach out. : Height is Might. (snip) Yes, but ... not everyone has a "high" antenna .. and many of those will be closer to you than that "repeater 18 miles away" and yet, you *won't* be able to talk with them. Because they won't hear you and/or you won't hear them. Richard in Boston, MA, USA |
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 04:02:54 GMT, Hagbard Celine
wrote: ----------------------------- So ernie,where specifically was I wrong? Code has not been "wiped." It's been reduced to 5 WPM for the two higher class licenses required for operation on the HF band. Oh for ****s sake, will you ****ing people just STFU? No. Bob, I believe, if you read Ernie's original post, he said it was wiped, and then talked about using a 2m HT. The license to operate on 2m, Technician, had its morse code requirement 'wiped' a few years ago. Closer to a decade I think. Jesus ****ing christ, the signal-to-noise ratio in here is getting mighty ****ing low. You ****ers just aren't happy if you aren't gaining imaginary debating points on Usenet. Too cheap to buy a newsreader capable of filtering/killfilling messages? If so, STFU and quit whining. Have a nice day ;-) |
Really, as I regularly get anywhere from 4-15 miles range with my HT around
here on simplex. Even further with the mobile rig on simplex at 40-45 watts, as far as 20-30 miles on average. At home, (better antenna and the height advantage) have gotten even further with 40-50 watts! Must be something wrong with your equipment. Yes. Except that 2 meter and 440 MHz radios, especially small ones, have limited range of only a few miles. They depend on repeaters to relay their messages long distances, and the repeaters run on electric power. Yaesu VX-2R http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/ht/0176.html snip -- "I can't describe how I felt when I picked up that rifle, loaded it into my little car and drove home. It seemed so incredibly strange: Sarah Brady, of all people, packing heat." - Sarah Brady, explaining how her son avoided the Brady criminal background check by getting her to buy the sniper rifle for him. Source: New York Daily News, Mar. 21, 2002, "Gun control advocate may have violated gun laws" |
For current limiting in a point to point telephone system, figure 1000 ohms per
volt for the resistance to put in series with the phone handsets and the battery. The current then will be about one milliamp. Bill, K5BY |
Here 'ya go. This is why we can't afford to let the Broadband companies
squeeze us out. http://www.ev1.net/english/news/news...t=technolo gy MJC "mad amoeba" wrote in message . net... I was affected by the recent blackout in North East. That got me thinking of how would one communicate during such an event. Electricity including phones were out. Cellular phones didn't work either. So the only way of receiving informaiton was by radio. My old Sony wm-gx670 did quite nicely. But what if I would need to communicate with my relatives or even cops to let them know of an emmergency. If telephone/cellular/internet are not available what are my other options? Let's say people I want to communicate with are more than several miles away in an urban area. That makes CB radio useless--right? So then as far as I understand using ham radio is my only option. With that you can either get in touch with your relatives directly, provided they have ham radio as well, or you can call some person in an area without blackout and tell them to call police/ambulance etc if that's what you need. Not knowing much myself about scanners/shortwaves/hams myself I want to ask you guys with more experience if the below piece of equipment is what I need. As far as I understand this is an handheld ham radio which also functions as a scanner and can also receive on a shortwave band. So it will allow me to communicate with people far away even in urban setting, it is portable and it will also allow me to monitor news as well as police/firefighters etc. Am I right? Yaesu VX-2R http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/ht/0176.html the price is kind of steep but for all-in-one product I would be willing to pay it. |
On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 23:11:04 -0400, Bob Brock
wrote: On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 21:26:20 GMT, erniegalts wrote: On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 00:02:39 -0400, Bob Brock wrote: On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 03:39:14 GMT, erniegalts wrote: On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 03:03:05 GMT, "mad amoeba" wrote: Not difficult to get an amateur license these days now that the code requirement has been wiped. Anyone who knows a bit about radio should be able to study the regs and pass an exam allowing VHF operation on 2 metres, and the "general class" [ or "full call" ] exam is not that much harder. General Class license still requires a Morse Code test. Morse has not been "wiped." It has however, been lowered for the two higher class licenses from 13 and 20 wpm to 5 wpm for both licenses. Morse is not required for the Technician license which give full priviliges on VHF/UHF. So, once again ernie, you are wrong. http://www.arrl.org/pio/hamlic.html Which states: The General License: The General class license grants some operating privileges on all Amateur Radio bands and all operating modes. This license opens the door to world-wide communications. Earning the General class license requires passing a 35 question examination. General class licensees must also have passed the Technician written examination and the five word-per-minute Morse code test. Just had a look at it. You might check the date at the bottom.:-) Page last modified: 09:55 AM, 27 Sep 2000 ET Page author: Copyright © 2000, American Radio Relay League, Inc. All Rights Reserved. The Amateur Extra License: The Amateur Extra class license conveys all available U.S. Amateur Radio operating privileges on all bands and all modes. Earning the license is more difficult; it requires passing a thorough 50 question examination. Extra class licensees must also have passed all previous license class written examinations, including the five word-per-minute Morse code test. ----------------------------- So ernie,where specifically was I wrong? Code has not been "wiped." It's been reduced to 5 WPM for the two higher class licenses required for operation on the HF band. Sorry, Brock, it is you that are wrong, and for the second time in a matter of weeks. First time was when you accused me of being unable to calculate the resonant length of a 1/4 wave vertical. It was the part where you said that automobiles have quater wave antennas that resonate at around 500 KHz. That my boy is a hell of an antenna for a car. Show us where I said that. I said that this would be the resonant length for an antenna of that length. Never mind, I'll look it up and reprint text in full, snipping some excess material from full header. ###### My comments set off by hash signs as usual ###### ===================================== From: erniegalts Newsgroups: misc.survivalism Subject: Radio technical question??? Message-ID: Lines: 150 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 02:37:18 GMT NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:37:18 EST ---------------- On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 16:14:19 -0700, Louis Boyd wrote: Steve Day wrote: Ok guys and Gals, here is one for the more technically minded of you :o) If I want to try and improve the reception on my car radio or home based SW radio (to for example pick up weather broadcasts or news broadcasts in a remote location), the normal route is to extend the length of the ariel ???? How ever when I have tried this with my Roberts 886 world band all I get is more very loud interference. So how do I extend the length of an ariel using a wire to improve reception without picking up more interference? Just extending the length of the antenna doesn't usually get it away from the noise sources and make actually make the signal to noise ratio worse. 1. Eliminate the noise sources if practical. Things like fluorescent lights, dimmer circuts, some UPS's etc generate considerable noise in the AM and SW bands. This may not be practical if the interference is from other than your property, but I've had success in finding capacitively sparking connectors on power poles and asking the power company to fix them. I've never seen them find the problem themselves as such sparking isn't considered a power fault. You can track it down with a portable radio and see exactly where it's sparking at night. A NV scope make the sparking easy to see. On a car radio check ignition noise first. Noise can also come from corroded metal acting as a mixer causing noise to be generated from nearby transmitters which are working properly. 2. Move the antenna away from the noise sources. Whether that's practical depends on the radio's input circuit and it's provision for an external antenna, and of course where the noise source is located. 3. Get the antenna to a higher elevation. That's most effective at higher frequencies, not so effective at AM and low band SW. 4. A larger and more directional antenna may help. A shielded loop antenna can be oriented to null out a single interfering source on the AM and low SW bands. At high SW frequecies a directional multielement antenna (or other designs) may help but such antennas are large below VHF frequecies. All good advice. Can get inline boosters for car radios, but as Lou points out won't help the signal to noise ratio. On car radio, are you talking about AM, SW, or FM? The best non-directional antenna is one that is resonant at the desired frequency, and the metric formula for this is very simple. The usual whip antenna on a car is a quarter wave vertical operating against a ground plane. The formula for resonant frequency for a 1/4 wave antenna is 75 / frequency in MHz. ####### Now Brock, point out where this claims that the quarter wave antenna on a car is anywhere near resonant frequency. If you are going to criticise my posts at least try to read them carefully enough to get the meaning and stop jumping to conclusions. Better yet, why don't you simply killfile me??? ###### Using a resonant antenna is very important for transmission, but also quite significant for reception. So lets assume that you want to listen to an FM station at 100 MHz [or megacycles] on a car radio. Resonant length in metres for 1/4 wave vertical would be 75/100 = 0.75 metres = 75 centimeters which in imperial measurement would be 29.53 inches. ##### Which is roughly correct ##### Easy to see that this no problem for a car antenna. However, suppose we are talking about a SW radio for 27 MHz CB? 75/27= ~ 2.77 metres, =~270 centimeters = 106.3 inches = ~ 8.9 feet. If want anything near perfect resonance and omnidirectional coverage for an 8.9 foot vertical need at least as much ground plane or radials at the base of it to form a "counterpoise" [More or less of an "electrical mirror image" of the antenna, or "the other half of it".] ###### This is also reasonably correct ###### However, highways aren't designed for vehicles almost 18 feet wide, so will have to accept some compromise. #####The reason isn't only the ground plane, of course. Most overhead structures such as roof over pumps in service stations and many highway overpasses, pedestrian bridges, etc. don't allow for height of vehicle roof plus ~ 8.09 feet##### Much worse at AM frequencies, of course. AM band runs from around ..53 to 1.6 Mhz, or 530 to 1600 Khz. So for an AM station at 1000 KHz or 1 MHz, the resonant length would be 75/1 = 75 metres. One foot = 0.3048 metres, so 75 * .3048 = 22.86 feet, the length of your resonant vertical, so if you mounted it dead center in the metal roof of your vehicle, the vehicle would have to be 45.72 feet wide. [Yes, can get by using physically shorter resonant antennas by winding this as a helical coil on a physically shorter form, but efficiency falls off drastically for shorter lengths. If assume that the feedline is correctly matched to an antenna of the proper length, and had enough surrounding metal around for it as a ground plane efficiency might approach 100%. For 27 MHz, can wind that 8.9 feet if wire on a 6 foot long form, but your ground plane still wont be adequate, so efficiency will probably be 70 or 80% at best. Can even wind it on a 2 foot form, but then efficiency will drop to around 10%.] Yes, going into more detail here than is necessary, but there may be some people still fooling around with 27 MHz CB in the group. #####Which is why went into such detail. But again note that there is no claim in the post that the 1/4 wave vertical receiving antenna on a vehicle is anywhere near resonant at lower frequencies.##### OK, for reception you don't need a fully efficient resonant antenna on your vehicle, and no need to try to match to it. A long helical wound fiberglass antenna may be the best you can do. Now if talking a fixed station antenna, you have a lot more flexibility. You can go for long wire antennas, quads, or even rhombics, terminated or unterminated. [For details on such antennas, see current ARRL antenna manual] Nice to know all this stuff, but if the average SWL listener my personal advice for broadcast band or shortwave is an active antenna such as a Datong. Basically, a wideband 1/2 wave dipole with switchable gain. ##### The tapered stainless whips on the datong dipole are nowhere near resonant lengths for most frequencies either. From memory, about 5 1/2 feet long. ###### Used vertically, it is omnidirectional. Used horizontally, highly directional, so useful for nulling out noise sources. ##### Can be mounted on larger vehicles for mobile reception ##### Searched the web for Datong active antenna Results 1 - 10 of about 189. Search took 0.17 seconds. Hope this will help. However, I don't claim to be an expert on antennas. Others on the group would know more than I do. Generalists are, by definition, generalists. People like Gunner have claimed to be "generalists" but in some areas obviously have some areas of specialization. For example, he would know far more about metalwork than I would. And if you wanted to know more about propaganda, lies, killing, and general asshole behavior, would probably be difficult to improve on this particular resident of California. :-) Although I suspect that he is now known nationwide or even worldwide. erniegalts I would ask if you are this stupid, but I know that you aren't. You're just a troll ernie and not a very good one. When want you opinion, Brock, will ask it. .....And you are still in error on both the resonant antenna and the requirement for morse. :-) erniegalts |
"erniegalts" wrote in message ... Much worse at AM frequencies, of course. AM band runs from around .53 to 1.6 Mhz, or 530 to 1600 Khz. So for an AM station at 1000 KHz or 1 MHz, the resonant length would be 75/1 = 75 metres. One foot = 0.3048 metres, so 75 * .3048 = 22.86 feet, the length of your resonant vertical, so if you mounted it dead center in the metal roof of your vehicle, the vehicle would have to be 45.72 feet wide. Oops... You got your math backward here.. the correct computation would be 75 (length in meters) x 3.28 (feet per meter)= 246.06 feet for a 1/4 wave radiator at 1 MHz (not adjusting for velocity factor). |
On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:18:26 GMT, Never anonymous Bud
wrote: Separating himself from Baghdad Bob, Trs1 whined: It is not illegal to communicate for emergency reasons. That's NOT the FCC says. Actually, it is what they say. I believe it is even a question on the test for the Tech. Class license but I really don't feel like reading the entire question pool right now. Actually..here it is from an ARRL publication NOW YOU'RE TALKING used to study for the exam. After a paragraph recognizing that some radios can transmit out of band and warning of false or deceptive signals it says: "If you should require immediate emergency help, and you're using a voice mode, call MAYDAY. Use whatever frequency offers the best chance of getting a useful answer" "In a life or property-threatening emergency, you may send a distress call on any frequency, even outside the amateur bands, if you think doing so will bring help faster." "If you receive a distress signal, you are also allowed to transmit on any frequency to provide assistance." This is all under subelement T1E KB9WFK "You are behaving like a troll, disguising your attacks as reasonable discussion." 'Alan Connor' |
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:57:25 GMT, KB9WFK wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:18:26 GMT, Never anonymous Bud wrote: Separating himself from Baghdad Bob, Trs1 whined: It is not illegal to communicate for emergency reasons. That's NOT the FCC says. Actually, it is what they say. I believe it is even a question on the test for the Tech. Class license but I really don't feel like reading the entire question pool right now. Actually..here it is from an ARRL publication NOW YOU'RE TALKING used to study for the exam. After a paragraph recognizing that some radios can transmit out of band and warning of false or deceptive signals it says: "If you should require immediate emergency help, and you're using a voice mode, call MAYDAY. Use whatever frequency offers the best chance of getting a useful answer" "In a life or property-threatening emergency, you may send a distress call on any frequency, even outside the amateur bands, if you think doing so will bring help faster." "If you receive a distress signal, you are also allowed to transmit on any frequency to provide assistance." This is all under subelement T1E KB9WFK There are actually three classes of distress messages and AFIK all have priority over any normal traffic. However, I have my doubts that all amateurs would necessarily recognize them, let alone users of CB or most other two way services. ================================================ To quote from one of my earlier posts: From: Subject: OT: CB Radio's Date: 2000/06/03 Message-ID: #1/1 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:50:15 EST Newsgroups: misc.survivalism ------------------------------------------------ MAYDAY (Distress) = Indicates that a ship, aircraft or other vehicle is threatened by grave and imminent danger and requests immediate assistance. PAN (Urgency) Indicates that the calling station has a very urgent message to transmit concerning the safety of a ship, aircraft, or other vehicle, or the safety of a person. SECURTIE (Safety) Indicates that the station is about to transmit a message concerning the safety of navigation or giving important meteorological warnings. ---------------------------------------------- "You are behaving like a troll, disguising your attacks as reasonable discussion." 'Alan Connor' "_Magna est veritas et praevalebit"_ (Truth is mighty and will prevail). {erniegalts} {Australia} {misc.survivalism} |
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:16:59 GMT, Never anonymous Bud
wrote: Separating himself from Baghdad Bob, erniegalts whined: There are actually three classes of distress messages and AFIK all have priority over any normal traffic. However, I have my doubts that all amateurs would necessarily recognize them, let alone users of CB or most other two way services. It STILL boils down to the FCC NOT accepting an emergency as a reason for transmitting on a frequency you are NOT licensed for. Here in San Diego, a few years ago, a licensed Ham operator with a modded (out-of-band xmit) radio was off-roading with friends. One of them had a serious crash. Ham guy claimed he couldn't hit a Ham repeater, so called in on a Sheriff's Dept. freq (453.400). The injured person was rescued, but the FCC filed charges against the Ham guy for unlicensed operation. The case was settled when Ham guy 'donated' his radio to the County. FCC ruling was he was not licensed for the frequency he used, and that they make NO exemption for an emergency. If memory serves me right, the charges were eventually reduced or dropped, but he never did get his equipment back. Whatever the outcome, the FCC made it very clear that transmitting out of band was a bad thing to do and they would make your life miserable for awhile. |
"Never anonymous Bud" wrote:
It STILL boils down to the FCC NOT accepting an emergency as a reason for transmitting on a frequency you are NOT licensed for. Here in San Diego, a few years ago, a licensed Ham operator with a modded (out-of-band xmit) radio was off-roading with friends. One of them had a serious crash. Ham guy claimed he couldn't hit a Ham repeater, so called in on a Sheriff's Dept. freq (453.400). The injured person was rescued, but the FCC filed charges against the Ham guy for unlicensed operation. The case was settled when Ham guy 'donated' his radio to the County. FCC ruling was he was not licensed for the frequency he used, and that they make NO exemption for an emergency. That not quite correct. The rules do allow an Amateur the use of "any means of radio communications at its disposal," which would clearly include the use of equipment capable of operating on frequencies outside the amateur bands (see last paragraph below). PART 97--AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE Subpart E--Providing Emergency Communications Sec. 97.403--Safety of life and protection of property. No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radio communications at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available. Sec. 97.405 Station in distress. (a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station in distress of any means at its disposal to attract attention, make known its condition and location, and obtain assistance. (b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a station, in the exceptional circumstances described in paragraph (a) of this section, of any means of radio communications at its disposal to assist a station in distress. Other rules (97.401 and 97.407) cover emergency operations during a disaster. Subpart E, Section 2.405, contains additional guidance concerning emergency operations. The operator you describe was more likely cited for having equipment improperly modified to transmit outside the Amateur Bands, not for actually using those out-of-band frequencies in the situation described. I realize this sounds like a Catch-22 situation, but those are the rules. In this case, if the operator had used another radio, a radio approved for those frequencies, there would have been no rule violation. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
That not quite correct. The rules do allow an Amateur the use of "any
means of radio communications at its disposal," which would clearly include the use of equipment capable of operating on frequencies outside the amateur bands (see last paragraph below). PART 97--AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE Subpart E--Providing Emergency Communications Sec. 97.403--Safety of life and protection of property. No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radio communications at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available. Sec. 97.405 Station in distress. (a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station in distress of any means at its disposal to attract attention, make known its condition and location, and obtain assistance. (b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a station, in the exceptional circumstances described in paragraph (a) of this section, of any means of radio communications at its disposal to assist a station in distress. Other rules (97.401 and 97.407) cover emergency operations during a disaster. Subpart E, Section 2.405, contains additional guidance concerning emergency operations. The operator you describe was more likely cited for having equipment improperly modified to transmit outside the Amateur Bands, not for actually using those out-of-band frequencies in the situation described. I realize this sounds like a Catch-22 situation, but those are the rules. In this case, if the operator had used another radio, a radio approved for those frequencies, there would have been no rule violation. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) Read closer. Part 97 is only for ham radio. It is not rules for any other service. Note it says THESE RULES. That means you STAY in the HAM BANDS. Anything out ot the ham bands is not covered in THESE RULES. There are other rules and Parts for the other frequencies. Just as what may be legal in your state may not be legal in another state. YOu have to follow the rules of the state you are in and not the rules of your state when out of your state. |
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:14:26 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote: That not quite correct. The rules do allow an Amateur the use of "any means of radio communications at its disposal," which would clearly include the use of equipment capable of operating on frequencies outside the amateur bands (see last paragraph below). PART 97--AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE Subpart E--Providing Emergency Communications Sec. 97.403--Safety of life and protection of property. No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radio communications at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available. Sec. 97.405 Station in distress. (a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station in distress of any means at its disposal to attract attention, make known its condition and location, and obtain assistance. (b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a station, in the exceptional circumstances described in paragraph (a) of this section, of any means of radio communications at its disposal to assist a station in distress. Other rules (97.401 and 97.407) cover emergency operations during a disaster. Subpart E, Section 2.405, contains additional guidance concerning emergency operations. The operator you describe was more likely cited for having equipment improperly modified to transmit outside the Amateur Bands, not for actually using those out-of-band frequencies in the situation described. I realize this sounds like a Catch-22 situation, but those are the rules. In this case, if the operator had used another radio, a radio approved for those frequencies, there would have been no rule violation. Dwight Stewart (W5NET) Read closer. Part 97 is only for ham radio. It is not rules for any other service. Note it says THESE RULES. That means you STAY in the HAM BANDS. Anything out ot the ham bands is not covered in THESE RULES. There are other rules and Parts for the other frequencies. Just as what may be legal in your state may not be legal in another state. YOu have to follow the rules of the state you are in and not the rules of your state when out of your state. Let me quote again the ARRL reference for taking the FCC test. "In a life or property-threatening emergency, you may send a distress call on any frequency, even outside the amateur bands, if you think doing so will bring help faster." ***EVEN OUTSIDE THE AMATEUR BANDS*** As this is a Federal law there can be no local or state laws that supercede it. KB9WFK "You are behaving like a troll, disguising your attacks as reasonable discussion." 'Alan Connor' |
In article , Ross Archer
wrote: I would think that when blacked-out, there would be little need for communicating. :) Amen. If one is out of communication, one is out of communication. This focus on how people can "communicate with their loved ones," which is what I hear many here and in the press talking about, is bull****. You'll be home when you get home. Period. Such was it in during the Punic Wars, the Crusades, WW II, and the War Against Some Terrorists. Yeah, those at home may feel some anguish. So? Not a survival issue. If your goal is to just keep in touch with friends and family, a GMRS or even FRS radio may be your only realistic option. Very limited range. Not at all useful when family lives in suburban New Jersey and affected party is in Manhattan. Or familiy is in Riverside and affected party is in downtown LA. Better to just not worry. "I'll be home when I can. Don't run around like a chicken with your head cut off, trying to call, when such calls do me no good whatsoever." --Tim May |
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 03:41:15 GMT, Dwight Stewart
wrote: "Never anonymous Bud" wrote: It STILL boils down to the FCC NOT accepting an emergency as a reason for transmitting on a frequency you are NOT licensed for. Here in San Diego, a few years ago, a licensed Ham operator with a modded (out-of-band xmit) radio was off-roading with friends. One of them had a serious crash. Ham guy claimed he couldn't hit a Ham repeater, so called in on a Sheriff's Dept. freq (453.400). The injured person was rescued, but the FCC filed charges against the Ham guy for unlicensed operation. The case was settled when Ham guy 'donated' his radio to the County. FCC ruling was he was not licensed for the frequency he used, and that they make NO exemption for an emergency. That not quite correct. The rules do allow an Amateur the use of "any means of radio communications at its disposal," which would clearly include the use of equipment capable of operating on frequencies outside the amateur bands (see last paragraph below). PART 97--AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE Subpart E--Providing Emergency Communications Sec. 97.403--Safety of life and protection of property. No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radio communications at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available. Sec. 97.405 Station in distress. (a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station in distress of any means at its disposal to attract attention, make known its condition and location, and obtain assistance. (b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a station, in the exceptional circumstances described in paragraph (a) of this section, of any means of radio communications at its disposal to assist a station in distress. Other rules (97.401 and 97.407) cover emergency operations during a disaster. Subpart E, Section 2.405, contains additional guidance concerning emergency operations. The operator you describe was more likely cited for having equipment improperly modified to transmit outside the Amateur Bands, not for actually using those out-of-band frequencies in the situation described. I realize this sounds like a Catch-22 situation, but those are the rules. In this case, if the operator had used another radio, a radio approved for those frequencies, there would have been no rule violation. Interesting technical & legal point, but the law can be like that. So, for the fun of it, lets introduce more license categories: Assume, for a start, a military radio operator, various amateur license categories, CB licensees, emergency service personnel such as ambulance, police, fire, etc. Just who is or isn't allowed to use available transceivers under various circumstances? No, not trying to be "difficult" here. For practical purposes, it might not make any real difference in a real emergency, but it might be interesting to know how the regulations actually read in various countries and guidelines by the ITU. At the extreme of "any means" does this mean that anyone can rig an untuned spark gap transmitter to "call for help" whether he holds any sort of license or not? Yeah, I know, I specialize in difficult questions, and often being correct. One of the reasons why some people on misc.survivalism hate me. :-) erniegalts Dwight Stewart (W5NET) http://www.qsl.net/w5net/ |
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