Outdoor SWL antenna options, 2nd fl apartment?
 

In article et, DaveC wrote:
antenna on his balcony. (The management doesn't allow anything on the roof of
the building.) The balcony is a roofed 6 ft x 8 ft affair.

Wasn't there a rule by the FCC that management or neighborhood committies
could not forbid you from erecting an aerial on the roof?

--
Sven Weil
New York City, U.S.A.

Being that the cost would be very little, I would simply take about 50 feet of
insulated hookup wire and run it back and forth around the underside of the
balcony ceiling; either taping or stapling it there temporarily. It's worth a
try and later on, one could add a balun or other upgrades. I lived for many
years in a 6-story apartment building in NYC and got good results with
everything from a length of wire hanging out of the window to a random-wire
strung between two laundry poles on the roof.
Ken Maltz
Syosset, NY
NRD-535D, Collins R-388, Racal RA6790/GM,
Panasonic RF-2200, Sony ICF-7600GR,
Hoka Code3 Gold-Pro, 60' long wire, MLB balun

(Sven Franklyn Weil) wrote in
:

In article et,
DaveC wrote:
antenna on his balcony. (The management doesn't allow anything on the
roof of the building.) The balcony is a roofed 6 ft x 8 ft affair.

Wasn't there a rule by the FCC that management or neighborhood
committies could not forbid you from erecting an aerial on the roof?

47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000 refers to video and fixed wireless signals; it
does not include broadcast and amateur radio reception or transmission.
You can install antennas for satellite video programming or
telephone/Internet services but not (for instance) for shortwave
reception.

The ruling also restricts installation to areas where you have exclusive
use, such as a balcony or patio. The roof is considered a common area and
is not part of the area protected for video/satellite/wireless antenna
installation.

For the situation DaveC describes, I'd recommend a couple options.
Stringing a discreet small-gauge random wire on the inside surface of the
balcony roof and/or support posts (if any) may work, particularly if a
balun or small tuner is available. I'm not sure what model Drake receiver
is being used but it's a cheap solution that's worth experimentation.

Another option may be an attic antenna (if there's an attic available) or
a random wire secured to the upper wall next to the ceiling. If you like
loops here's a link to one suggested configuration:

http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx.../housloop.html

I've lived in apartments for the past twenty-eight years and have managed
to work around most antenna restrictions by using extremely thin wire
(24-28 gauge magnet wire is fine, even thinner if you must) in locations
where folks don't expect to see it. I'm pushing the envelope a bit now; I
have fifty feet of magnet wire strung between two trees in the back
courtyard, but I have an alternate attic random wire in case the outdoor
one disappears (or is made to disappear). This signals I've gotten
through both this year have been surprisingly good.

----

DaveC wrote:

My brother is a serious SWL'er with a recent model of Drake SW receiver. He
listens exclusively to 30MHz.

He has asked me (the family electronics geek) what his options are for an
antenna on his balcony. (The management doesn't allow anything on the roof of
the building.) The balcony is a roofed 6 ft x 8 ft affair.

Is it possible to put a loop antenna, coiled inside the balcony roof, each
coil being supported, possibly, by a custom plexiglas support in each corner?

I'm open to other possibilties, but with the limited space, I quickly run out
of ideas.

I know about the center-fed masts, such as
http://www.radio-ware.com/products/asb3.htm
but I'd like to help him with an inexpensive DIY solution, if possible.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
--
Dave C


Some interesting designs on this page:

http://www.g4fon.co.uk/

Although the design is for the ham bands, it would work for swl also
(same part of the spectrum).

I haven't built one of the loop antennas (yet), but plan to, as I am in
a similar situation, and will need an antenna for my 20m rig when I
finish it (under construction - about 30% done).

Another idea I have heard about, is using slinkys:

http://www.qsl.net/kd4cga/slinky.htm

The loop sounds like a better design, but if I can find a metal slinky
(all I've found are plastic in the toy stores), I might try that one
also.

73,
Tom Ayers
KG6MVB

--
Money is no object to me...

I have no money, therefore it is not an object.

DaveC wrote:

My brother is a serious SWL'er with a recent model of Drake SW receiver. He
listens exclusively to 30MHz.

He has asked me (the family electronics geek) what his options are for an
antenna on his balcony. (The management doesn't allow anything on the roof of
the building.) The balcony is a roofed 6 ft x 8 ft affair.

Is it possible to put a loop antenna, coiled inside the balcony roof, each
coil being supported, possibly, by a custom plexiglas support in each corner?


I'm open to other possibilties, but with the limited space, I quickly run out
of ideas.



Is there something conductive nearby? Like a downspout or gutter?
Attach a wire
to that. Just be sure to put the hole for a screw in a spot that won't
cause a leak.

DaveC wrote in
al.net:

My brother is a serious SWL'er with a recent model of Drake SW
receiver. He listens exclusively to 30MHz.

He has asked me (the family electronics geek) what his options are for
an antenna on his balcony. (The management doesn't allow anything on
the roof of the building.) The balcony is a roofed 6 ft x 8 ft affair.

Is it possible to put a loop antenna, coiled inside the balcony roof,
each coil being supported, possibly, by a custom plexiglas support in
each corner?

Loops are not very effective above 5 MHz, and are inherently narrow band.
So called wide band loops (untuned) deliver low signal strength and need
amplification.

The best resort would be a very thin wire run where ever possible.

In article et,
DaveC wrote:

He has asked me (the family electronics geek) what his options are for an
antenna on his balcony.

Dave,

Keep it simple... string a random length end-fed wire around the
perimeter of the balcony. Install it up, down, sideways, whatever fits
and is discreet. No need to try for a loop of any particular dimensions.
I use brown or black 24 gauge plastic insulated wire. Nylon ty-wraps are
a good way to anchor the wire if the balcony structure allows it. Don't
bother with plexiglas supports. It's OK if the wire touches the balcony.

Build or buy a small antenna tuner to put at the receiver end. Run a
"ground" wire (though real ground is hard to achieve above the first
floor) to a nearby window frame or outlet plate mounting screw.

This system works fine for me.

If you pick up too much local noise like TV buzz or computer power
supply hash, it might help to put a 1:1 ferrite toroid transformer
between the receiver and the tuner to break the common mode signal path.

Good luck, and post a message telling us what you end up doing.

-Joe

Tom,

Search ebay in the toys & hobbies category. There are dozens of them, many
in good condition for a couple of dollars.

Sal

--
Sal D'Ambra
Blue Ridge Summit, PA
"Tom Ayers" wrote in message
...
DaveC wrote:

My brother is a serious SWL'er with a recent model of Drake SW receiver.
He
listens exclusively to 30MHz.

He has asked me (the family electronics geek) what his options are for
an
antenna on his balcony. (The management doesn't allow anything on the
roof of
the building.) The balcony is a roofed 6 ft x 8 ft affair.

Is it possible to put a loop antenna, coiled inside the balcony roof,
each
coil being supported, possibly, by a custom plexiglas support in each
corner?

I'm open to other possibilties, but with the limited space, I quickly
run out
of ideas.

I know about the center-fed masts, such as
http://www.radio-ware.com/products/asb3.htm
but I'd like to help him with an inexpensive DIY solution, if possible.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
--
Dave C


Some interesting designs on this page:

http://www.g4fon.co.uk/

Although the design is for the ham bands, it would work for swl also
(same part of the spectrum).

I haven't built one of the loop antennas (yet), but plan to, as I am in
a similar situation, and will need an antenna for my 20m rig when I
finish it (under construction - about 30% done).

Another idea I have heard about, is using slinkys:

http://www.qsl.net/kd4cga/slinky.htm

The loop sounds like a better design, but if I can find a metal slinky
(all I've found are plastic in the toy stores), I might try that one
also.

73,
Tom Ayers
KG6MVB

--
Money is no object to me...

I have no money, therefore it is not an object.

That applies to TV antennas.
"Sven Franklyn Weil" wrote in message
...
In article et, DaveC
wrote:
antenna on his balcony. (The management doesn't allow anything on the
roof of
the building.) The balcony is a roofed 6 ft x 8 ft affair.

Wasn't there a rule by the FCC that management or neighborhood committies
could not forbid you from erecting an aerial on the roof?

--
Sven Weil
New York City, U.S.A.

you could always just get a random wire tuner..... like the mfj 16030 or
something like that, forgot the model number.. where you take any length
of wire (I think it's 8 feet minimum) and turn the dials until you get the
strongest signal strength on the frequency you're listening too....
I have heard of people living in apartments getting them, running a piece of
wire to a raingutter (metal) and tuning it.... turning the entire
apartment's network
of raingutters into a large recieving antenna.

Clint

--

--

A quote from Paul Cook, a typical "understanding
and tolerant" liberal...

"People like you really have no place in a civilized society although that
same society does try to accommodate you. You're basically an idiot who
takes advantage of what a society has to offer each and every single day
yet
you refuse to acknowledge its cost or its benefits to you. "


Facts are to socialists what crosses are to vampires

--
"DaveC" wrote in message
al.net...
My brother is a serious SWL'er with a recent model of Drake SW receiver.
He
listens exclusively to 30MHz.

He has asked me (the family electronics geek) what his options are for an
antenna on his balcony. (The management doesn't allow anything on the roof
of
the building.) The balcony is a roofed 6 ft x 8 ft affair.

Is it possible to put a loop antenna, coiled inside the balcony roof, each
coil being supported, possibly, by a custom plexiglas support in each
corner?


I'm open to other possibilties, but with the limited space, I quickly run
out
of ideas.

I know about the center-fed masts, such as
http://www.radio-ware.com/products/asb3.htm
but I'd like to help him with an inexpensive DIY solution, if possible.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
--
Dave C

yes, but getting the FCC to back you up is another thing... in the meantime
you have cops and lawyers and everything banging on your door and
giving you legal documents and legal-jazz worded lectures and things....
and you're all alone, without the FCC (unfortunately) to tell them
to take a hike.

They even told cities they couldn't have zoneing restrictions against them,
except for the ones set for by the FCC and FAA (about living close to
airports and not being able to erect anything over a certain height for
saftey
reasons)... but I hear horror stories of people writing/emailing/calling
the
fcc saying "HELP!" and naer and answer....

Clint
KB5ZHT

--

--

A quote from Paul Cook, a typical "understanding
and tolerant" liberal...

"People like you really have no place in a civilized society although that
same society does try to accommodate you. You're basically an idiot who
takes advantage of what a society has to offer each and every single day
yet
you refuse to acknowledge its cost or its benefits to you. "


Facts are to socialists what crosses are to vampires

--
"Sven Franklyn Weil" wrote in message
...
In article et, DaveC
wrote:
antenna on his balcony. (The management doesn't allow anything on the
roof of
the building.) The balcony is a roofed 6 ft x 8 ft affair.

Wasn't there a rule by the FCC that management or neighborhood committies
could not forbid you from erecting an aerial on the roof?

--
Sven Weil
New York City, U.S.A.

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:56:10 -0500, Clint wrote
(in message ):

yes, but getting the FCC to back you up is another thing... in the meantime
you have cops and lawyers and everything banging on your door and
giving you legal documents and legal-jazz worded lectures and things....
and you're all alone, without the FCC (unfortunately) to tell them
to take a hike.

They even told cities they couldn't have zoneing restrictions against them,
except for the ones set for by the FCC and FAA (about living close to
airports and not being able to erect anything over a certain height for
saftey
reasons)... but I hear horror stories of people writing/emailing/calling
the
fcc saying "HELP!" and naer and answer....

Clint
KB5ZHT


But, Clint - why should the FCC ("For Clear Channel") help anyone who hasn't
contributed to the election campaign of whatever party is in power?



Gray Shockley
-----------------------
DX-392 DX-398
RX-320 DX-399
CCradio w/RS Loop
Torus Tuner (3-13 MHz)
Select-A-Tenna
-----------------------
Vicksburg, MS US

"Clint" rattlehead@computronDOTnet wrote in message ...
you could always just get a random wire tuner.....

Yes, an inexpensive ham-type or homebrew longwire tuner works great
and does wonders db-wise for any humble or marginal length of rcvng
wire - I'm using one out in the sticks since my big wire came down,
any medicine man can throw one together or find a used low-power MFJ
on short money. Really helps your illegal AM xmttr, too, if it's
wound for 160+G.

I know one of the others gave a link to the slinky article, but one
article I've seen uses a cheap fishing reel with the line and weight
attached to the bottom of the slinky. When in use, you just release
the reel and the "antenna" extends. When not in use, you just crank it
up out of the way and weather (and line of sight).


On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:05:54 -0700, DaveC
wrote:

My brother is a serious SWL'er with a recent model of Drake SW receiver. He
listens exclusively to 30MHz.

He has asked me (the family electronics geek) what his options are for an
antenna on his balcony. (The management doesn't allow anything on the roof of
the building.) The balcony is a roofed 6 ft x 8 ft affair.

Is it possible to put a loop antenna, coiled inside the balcony roof, each
coil being supported, possibly, by a custom plexiglas support in each corner?


I'm open to other possibilties, but with the limited space, I quickly run out
of ideas.

I know about the center-fed masts, such as
http://www.radio-ware.com/products/asb3.htm
but I'd like to help him with an inexpensive DIY solution, if possible.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

= = = Gray Shockley
= = = wrote in message ...
On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:56:10 -0500, Clint wrote
(in message ):



But, Clint - why should the FCC ("For Clear Channel") help anyone who hasn't
contributed to the election campaign of whatever party is in power?


Both parties are the Heads and Tails of the 'same' Coin (Pay-O-La).
Both parties (like pigs) feed at the same Trough.
The only difference is the Left Side or the Right Side of the Trough.



Gray Shockley
-----------------------
DX-392 DX-398
RX-320 DX-399
CCradio w/RS Loop
Torus Tuner (3-13 MHz)
Select-A-Tenna
-----------------------
Vicksburg, MS US

DaveC wrote:
My brother is a serious SWL'er with a recent model of Drake SW receiver. He
listens exclusively to 30MHz.

He has asked me (the family electronics geek) what his options are for an
antenna on his balcony. (The management doesn't allow anything on the roof of
the building.) The balcony is a roofed 6 ft x 8 ft affair.

Is it possible to put a loop antenna, coiled inside the balcony roof, each
coil being supported, possibly, by a custom plexiglas support in each corner?


I'm open to other possibilties, but with the limited space, I quickly run out
of ideas.

I know about the center-fed masts, such as
http://www.radio-ware.com/products/asb3.htm
but I'd like to help him with an inexpensive DIY solution, if possible.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
I found a Sony AN-1 amplifed antenna on e-Bay. It's a telescoping
59 inch whip with a built-in preamp. It covers from 150 kHz to 30
mHz. Works pretty well.

73, Roger


--
Remove tilde (~) in e-mail address to reply



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RDJ,

Here are two ways to Improve Reception with your Sony AN-1 Active
Antenna:


INDOORS: If you are looking to use the Sony AN-1 Active Antenna in
the Attic. Try setting it up with a Double Loop element (Head)
Antenna made of Wire -vice- the standard telescoping Whip Antenna
element.:
* Two Loop Elements positioned at 0/180-Degrees and 90/270-Degrees.
* Each Diamond Shaped Loop with all four sides set at 30 Inches.
* Horizontal Cross-Arms are also set at 30 Inches.
* Vertical Center set at 67 Inches.
* Works better than the stock Whip and has more consistant signal
levels with lower noise.

OUTSIDE: To improve the OutSide performance of the Sony AN-1 Active
Antenna. Try using a 104 Inch CB Whip Antenna element -vice- the
standard telescoping Whip Antenna element.
* The One Piece Stainless Steel CB Whip element will 'weather' better
than the standard telescoping Whip Antenna element over the long term.
* The Added Length and Elevation that you will get by using the CB
Whip element, will result in better signal levels.

NOTE: Both of the above will not result in overloading this active
antenna and the radio.


iane ~ RHF
..
..
= = = Roger D Johnson
= = = wrote in message ...

I found a Sony AN-1 amplifed antenna on e-Bay. It's a telescoping
59 inch whip with a built-in preamp. It covers from 150 kHz to 30
mHz. Works pretty well.

73, Roger

Jim K wrote:

I know one of the others gave a link to the slinky article, but one
article I've seen uses a cheap fishing reel with the line and weight
attached to the bottom of the slinky. When in use, you just release
the reel and the "antenna" extends. When not in use, you just crank it
up out of the way and weather (and line of sight).

I can't quite picture it from your discription. Please give it another
try.


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http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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DaveC wrote:

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 1:39:52 -0700, starman wrote
(in message ):

I can't quite picture it from your discription. Please give it another
try.

Try this:
1. attach one end of a metal slinky toy to your balcony. Also connect your
antenna input wire to this end of the slinky.
2. Drop the other end of the slinky off the balcony. It extends to full
length or until it hits the ground.
3. If you want to bring the slinky back up when you're done listening to the
radio, it would nice to have connected your fishing rod's line to the other
end of the slinky. Simply reel it in, and the slinky is retracted, ready to
launch again.

A lead fishing weight is optional for adding a bit of speed to the slinky's
deployment.

Thanks, I got it now.


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On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:05:54 -0700, DaveC
wrote:

My brother is a serious SWL'er with a recent model of Drake SW receiver. He
listens exclusively to 30MHz.

He has asked me (the family electronics geek) what his options are for an
antenna on his balcony. (The management doesn't allow anything on the roof of
the building.) The balcony is a roofed 6 ft x 8 ft affair.

Is it possible to put a loop antenna, coiled inside the balcony roof, each
coil being supported, possibly, by a custom plexiglas support in each corner?


I'm open to other possibilties, but with the limited space, I quickly run out
of ideas.

Take a 2"X2" 8 foot long
Wrap a Dipole around it
and feed it with a TV type 300 Ohm to 75 ohm
Matching Transformer.
You could even wrap a Multiple Dipole.
I build one with 2 Spools of Rad shack
clear speaker Wire. 75 dual strand, that
you unzip apart.
cutting one at 50 and 25 feet, and the Other
75 foot as the Base Winding
I used guike qlue to hold it in place
and made a pedastal for it,
so I could take it Inside when I needed to
It worked great, and took it Camping as Well
I know about the center-fed masts, such as
http://www.radio-ware.com/products/asb3.htm
but I'd like to help him with an inexpensive DIY solution, if possible.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
--
Dave C

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 9:58:19 -0700, DaveC
wrote:

You unzip 2 spools of 75 foot clear speaker Wire
(it has 2 Wires zipped together)
and start wrapping from the Center of the 2 X2
Like this
_________________________________________
^
Here
One strand goes to one side of the Matching transformer
the Other Stand to the other to the 300 Ohm Side
Multiple Windings is too Complicated for you at this time
as you are New to all this.
But in Time you will learn one can wind Parallel Windings on a
Diploe that will still be 300 Ohms
if This was stretched out instead of Wound it would be
75 Ohms and no match would be needed.


On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:38:02 -0700, Sam Taylor wrote
(in message ):

Take a 2"X2" 8 foot long
Wrap a Dipole around it
and feed it with a TV type 300 Ohm to 75 ohm
Matching Transformer.

You could even wrap a Multiple Dipole.
I build one with 2 Spools of Rad shack
clear speaker Wire. 75 dual strand, that
you unzip apart.

cutting one at 50 and 25 feet, and the Other
75 foot as the Base Winding
I used guike qlue to hold it in place
and made a pedastal for it,
so I could take it Inside when I needed to
It worked great, and took it Camping as Well

I don't quite understand how you made this.
2 dipoles? One 50 and 25 feet (I don't understand how these two lengths are
one antenna...) The other antenna at 75 feet (that makes 3 lengths, not 2...)

Wind the 75 foot antenna first around the pole. What do you attach it to? The
transformer (300 ohm side)?

The 50 and 25 lengths are attached to what? How?

Thanks,
--
Dave C