Thinking about a wideband receiver...
 

Hello all. I have been into DXing for about 5 years or so, and I recently
purchased a Drake R8B. It's fantastic. Anyway, after using it for a month
or so, I've found myself thinking about a wideband receiver to complement my
Drake. However, I already have a Uniden BC 780 XLT scanner, which I enjoy
as well. So I guess I have 2 questions:

1. Am I really missing anything by not having a receiver that does not go
above 1.2 GHz? In other words, is it worth the $$$ to get access to the 1.2
+GHz spectrum above and beyond what my scanner will pick up?

2. Assuming that I decide to go with another receiver, do any of you have
recommendations as to a wideband receiver? I've been looking at the Icom
R-8500 and the Yaeseu VR-5000 (but the reviews I've read indicate this thing
stinks up the joint somewhat). I was also thinking about a JRC NRD-545 with
a VHF/UHF converter, but that would probably be expensive overkill.

All comments/suggestions/wisdom welcome.

Thanks!

"Jenni_is_a_Whore" wrote in message news:8ZZpb.211$jt.139@okepread05...
Hello all. I have been into DXing for about 5 years or so, and I recently
purchased a Drake R8B. It's fantastic. Anyway, after using it for a month
or so, I've found myself thinking about a wideband receiver to complement my
Drake. However, I already have a Uniden BC 780 XLT scanner, which I enjoy
as well. So I guess I have 2 questions:

1. Am I really missing anything by not having a receiver that does not go
above 1.2 GHz? In other words, is it worth the $$$ to get access to the 1.2
+GHz spectrum above and beyond what my scanner will pick up?

2. Assuming that I decide to go with another receiver, do any of you have
recommendations as to a wideband receiver? I've been looking at the Icom
R-8500 and the Yaeseu VR-5000 (but the reviews I've read indicate this thing
stinks up the joint somewhat). I was also thinking about a JRC NRD-545 with
a VHF/UHF converter, but that would probably be expensive overkill.

All comments/suggestions/wisdom welcome.

Thanks!

Dunno. Up to you if you think 1.2 gig's is worth it. It's not to me
really. Also probably will depend if the local police, etc are on 800
mhz, using a trunked system. In that case, a trunk tracker scanner
might make sense. Here, the county uses 800 mhz, but the city is still
460 mhz. So for my area of town, I don't even need 800 mhz. Most
scanners will cover AM airband. I use my IC-706mk2g as my all band
radio. It's a small tranceiver that covers 30 hz to 470 mhz, with a
gap from 200-400 mhz. It covers everything I want except military
aircraft. I like it cuz it's all mode, with better than the average
scanner performance. Dunno what the best radio of that type is. The
Icom r-7000 is one I think covers most of that range, and looks pretty
decent. I haven't looked at the two models you mention. MK

If it were me I'de keep what you got, and spend the money on something elce.

Bill, N5NOB

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:14:49 -0600, "Jenni_is_a_Whore"
wrote:

Hello all. I have been into DXing for about 5 years or so, and I recently
purchased a Drake R8B. It's fantastic. Anyway, after using it for a month
or so, I've found myself thinking about a wideband receiver to complement my
Drake. However, I already have a Uniden BC 780 XLT scanner, which I enjoy
as well. So I guess I have 2 questions:

1. Am I really missing anything by not having a receiver that does not go
above 1.2 GHz? In other words, is it worth the $$$ to get access to the 1.2
+GHz spectrum above and beyond what my scanner will pick up?

2. Assuming that I decide to go with another receiver, do any of you have
recommendations as to a wideband receiver? I've been looking at the Icom
R-8500 and the Yaeseu VR-5000 (but the reviews I've read indicate this thing
stinks up the joint somewhat). I was also thinking about a JRC NRD-545 with
a VHF/UHF converter, but that would probably be expensive overkill.

All comments/suggestions/wisdom welcome.

Thanks!

Most scanners have awful front ends, with relatively poor image
rejection and overload/intermodulation protection. That is kind of
what distinguishes the real receivers from the scanners. If memory
serves the R8500 isn't a great SW receiver (although it isn't bad),
but it does have pretty good image, overload, and IM protection
because it has a real front end (12 different band pass filters IIRC).
With the Highstability (it is a crsytal oven), there are rocks that
are less solid....

Thanks for all the replies.

Matt, you really hit on something that I've been thinking about; the real
"front end" that a receiver like the R8500 has that a scanner does not.
I've heard much about the stability of this receiver which is why I think it
might be a good investment.

There are so many things to consider. I'll have to have a few beers tonight
and ponder this further. :)
+++++++++++++

"matt weber" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:14:49 -0600, "Jenni_is_a_Whore"
wrote:

Hello all. I have been into DXing for about 5 years or so, and I
recently
purchased a Drake R8B. It's fantastic. Anyway, after using it for a
month
or so, I've found myself thinking about a wideband receiver to complement
my
Drake. However, I already have a Uniden BC 780 XLT scanner, which I
enjoy
as well. So I guess I have 2 questions:

1. Am I really missing anything by not having a receiver that does not
go
above 1.2 GHz? In other words, is it worth the $$$ to get access to the
1.2
+GHz spectrum above and beyond what my scanner will pick up?

2. Assuming that I decide to go with another receiver, do any of you
have
recommendations as to a wideband receiver? I've been looking at the Icom
R-8500 and the Yaeseu VR-5000 (but the reviews I've read indicate this
thing
stinks up the joint somewhat). I was also thinking about a JRC NRD-545
with
a VHF/UHF converter, but that would probably be expensive overkill.

All comments/suggestions/wisdom welcome.

Thanks!

Most scanners have awful front ends, with relatively poor image
rejection and overload/intermodulation protection. That is kind of
what distinguishes the real receivers from the scanners. If memory
serves the R8500 isn't a great SW receiver (although it isn't bad),
but it does have pretty good image, overload, and IM protection
because it has a real front end (12 different band pass filters IIRC).
With the Highstability (it is a crsytal oven), there are rocks that
are less solid....

Aw, come on! Get it and tell us all about it!

-- Stinger

"Jenni_is_a_Whore" wrote in message
news:XDhqb.240$jt.192@okepread05...
Thanks for all the replies.

Matt, you really hit on something that I've been thinking about; the real
"front end" that a receiver like the R8500 has that a scanner does not.
I've heard much about the stability of this receiver which is why I think
it
might be a good investment.

There are so many things to consider. I'll have to have a few beers
tonight
and ponder this further. :)
+++++++++++++

"matt weber" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:14:49 -0600, "Jenni_is_a_Whore"
wrote:

Hello all. I have been into DXing for about 5 years or so, and I
recently
purchased a Drake R8B. It's fantastic. Anyway, after using it for a
month
or so, I've found myself thinking about a wideband receiver to
complement
my
Drake. However, I already have a Uniden BC 780 XLT scanner, which I
enjoy
as well. So I guess I have 2 questions:

1. Am I really missing anything by not having a receiver that does not
go
above 1.2 GHz? In other words, is it worth the $$$ to get access to
the
1.2
+GHz spectrum above and beyond what my scanner will pick up?

2. Assuming that I decide to go with another receiver, do any of you
have
recommendations as to a wideband receiver? I've been looking at the
Icom
R-8500 and the Yaeseu VR-5000 (but the reviews I've read indicate this
thing
stinks up the joint somewhat). I was also thinking about a JRC NRD-545
with
a VHF/UHF converter, but that would probably be expensive overkill.

All comments/suggestions/wisdom welcome.

Thanks!

Most scanners have awful front ends, with relatively poor image
rejection and overload/intermodulation protection. That is kind of
what distinguishes the real receivers from the scanners. If memory
serves the R8500 isn't a great SW receiver (although it isn't bad),
but it does have pretty good image, overload, and IM protection
because it has a real front end (12 different band pass filters IIRC).
With the Highstability (it is a crsytal oven), there are rocks that
are less solid....

Jenni_is_a_Whore wrote:
Hello all. I have been into DXing for about 5 years or so, and I recently
purchased a Drake R8B. It's fantastic. Anyway, after using it for a month
or so, I've found myself thinking about a wideband receiver to complement my
Drake. However, I already have a Uniden BC 780 XLT scanner, which I enjoy
as well. So I guess I have 2 questions:

1. Am I really missing anything by not having a receiver that does not go
above 1.2 GHz? In other words, is it worth the $$$ to get access to the 1.2
+GHz spectrum above and beyond what my scanner will pick up?

2. Assuming that I decide to go with another receiver, do any of you have
recommendations as to a wideband receiver? I've been looking at the Icom
R-8500 and the Yaeseu VR-5000 (but the reviews I've read indicate this thing
stinks up the joint somewhat). I was also thinking about a JRC NRD-545 with
a VHF/UHF converter, but that would probably be expensive overkill.

All comments/suggestions/wisdom welcome.

Thanks!




Personally, I'm not a big fan of widebands. I have a couple,
they're ok. Use them mostly on field jobs, where I need to monitor
a huge range of frequencies from a compact setup.

For serious listening, discrete components will get you better
results. HF receivers are optimized for HF. V/UHF receivers are
optimized for higher bands, where channel widths can be wider than
many entire HF bands. Widebands that do justice to HF are going to
be expensive. And compromise both spectra.

Your R8B is a top flight performer for MW/HF. Audio is superb.
selectivity is equally good.

Your Uniden is a good selection for the upper bands. As far as
1.2G and above....not much up there, and what is, is mostly digital.
Around here, 1.2G and up is mostly just quiet. But if you want a
better V/Uhf rig, Icom's R-7000 or R-7100 are very good choices, and
can be found on the used market at considerable savings over new
offerings.

All comments/suggestions/wisdom welcome.

I rarely have any wisdom to offer anyone, but I must agree with Peter's
comments. You'll save money and get better performance using a dedicated radio
each for HF and VHF/UHF.
As a former R8B user (money and circumstance got screwy, but I used it
enthusiastically for two or three years) I can tell you that radio is simply
fabulous, but you already know that. :-)
Save a good chunk of money and get yourself a second, dedicated V/UHF rig, but
ONLY if you find the Uniden wanting. I have not used the 780xlt, but reviews
from users seem to be pretty happy... so if you want a different scanner,
that's your business, but if you're getting the signals you want, stick with
it.
You can then get really creative designing you antenna 'farm', switching
between them for various ranges, etc., but you'll be FAR better off with such a
set-up than with Yaesu's abysmal VR5000, and better off performance-wise and
price-wise than even the (mostly-beloved) Icom R8500. Unless you need
portable/otherwise mobile reception of a wide range of freq's, stick with what
you've got.
There's really not anything above 1.2 GHz that you could/would want to listen
to, unless you're a truly die-hard digital/decoding/data burst hobbyist, and
even then, the pickings are pretty slim regardless of your location. In my
view, not worth the price of the one or two decent wideband radios to get more
spectrum that you won't really listen to.
Good luck-
Linus

I have two and use a third. I like them! :-) However, they aren't
perfect -- far from it.

Pros:
o As sensitive as you could ever need on HF
o Rock-stable
o Very flexible tuning steps, including user defined one
o Very flexible memory handling
o Excellent performer in USB/LSB
o Excellent fidelity -- pleasant to listen to.
o Good performer in AM.
o Easy to learn but quite sophisticated
o Almost impossible to overload
o All the above true all the way up to 2 GHz.
o Built like a tank

Cons:
o The filters have poor shapes and are poor choices!
o No notch or pass-band tuning
o No sync-AM
o Not a good "bang-for-buck" choice for HF listening only.

Now, I've owned or currently own the following HF radios:
o Yaesu FRG-100B
o ICOM R-75
o ICOM R-71A
o Collins R-392
o Yaesu FRG-7
o Lowe HF-150
o Ten-Tec RX-340
o WinRadio G303i

So I think I have a good handle on the radio. I respect Peter's
opinion, but I'm going to disagree with him, below...

Peter Maus wrote:


Personally, I'm not a big fan of widebands. I have a couple,
they're ok. Use them mostly on field jobs, where I need to monitor
a huge range of frequencies from a compact setup.

For serious listening, discrete components will get you better
results. HF receivers are optimized for HF. V/UHF receivers are
optimized for higher bands, where channel widths can be wider than
many entire HF bands. Widebands that do justice to HF are going to
be expensive. And compromise both spectra.

No doubt, the 8500 is expensive, but it gets most of the basics right.
If I could change anything about it, it would be the filter choices
for AM.


Your R8B is a top flight performer for MW/HF. Audio is superb.
selectivity is equally good.

Your Uniden is a good selection for the upper bands. As far as
1.2G and above....not much up there, and what is, is mostly digital.
Around here, 1.2G and up is mostly just quiet. But if you want a
better V/Uhf rig, Icom's R-7000 or R-7100 are very good choices, and
can be found on the used market at considerable savings over new
offerings.


I have used an ICOM R-7100 side-by-side with the '8500, and the 8500
is FAR more sensitive and stable than the 7100. As a V/UHF radio
alone, it is worth getting.

Now, what the Uniden will get you that the ICOM won't have is trunk
tracking and a faster scan rate. And a cheaper price. On all other
measures, the ICOM is superior. (I own a Uniden 780 TT3.)

If I were in your shoes, I'd keep the other two and add the '8500.
Especially if you are chasing V/UHF weak signal stuff, or want a radio
with stunningly pleasant audio on AM, or is built like a tank.

Obviously I'm an '8500 fan. It would be interesting to hear a
contrarian point of view from someone who owns or owned an '8500 and
found it wanting.

Eric

--
Eric F. Richards,
"Nature abhors a vacuum tube." -- J. R. Pierce, Bell Labs, c. 1940

Eric F. Richards wrote:

I have two and use a third. I like them! :-) However, they aren't
perfect -- far from it.

Pros:
o As sensitive as you could ever need on HF
o Rock-stable
o Very flexible tuning steps, including user defined one
o Very flexible memory handling
o Excellent performer in USB/LSB
o Excellent fidelity -- pleasant to listen to.
o Good performer in AM.
o Easy to learn but quite sophisticated
o Almost impossible to overload
o All the above true all the way up to 2 GHz.
o Built like a tank

Cons:
o The filters have poor shapes and are poor choices!
o No notch or pass-band tuning
o No sync-AM
o Not a good "bang-for-buck" choice for HF listening only.

Now, I've owned or currently own the following HF radios:
o Yaesu FRG-100B
o ICOM R-75
o ICOM R-71A
o Collins R-392
o Yaesu FRG-7
o Lowe HF-150
o Ten-Tec RX-340
o WinRadio G303i

So I think I have a good handle on the radio. I respect Peter's
opinion, but I'm going to disagree with him, below...





Now, why am I not surprised..... :)

Actually, I was expecting you to give the other side's
perspective.

How you been Eric? Things going better?







Peter Maus wrote:



Personally, I'm not a big fan of widebands. I have a couple,
they're ok. Use them mostly on field jobs, where I need to monitor
a huge range of frequencies from a compact setup.

For serious listening, discrete components will get you better
results. HF receivers are optimized for HF. V/UHF receivers are
optimized for higher bands, where channel widths can be wider than
many entire HF bands. Widebands that do justice to HF are going to
be expensive. And compromise both spectra.


No doubt, the 8500 is expensive, but it gets most of the basics right.
If I could change anything about it, it would be the filter choices
for AM.


Your R8B is a top flight performer for MW/HF. Audio is superb.
selectivity is equally good.

Your Uniden is a good selection for the upper bands. As far as
1.2G and above....not much up there, and what is, is mostly digital.
Around here, 1.2G and up is mostly just quiet. But if you want a
better V/Uhf rig, Icom's R-7000 or R-7100 are very good choices, and
can be found on the used market at considerable savings over new
offerings.



I have used an ICOM R-7100 side-by-side with the '8500, and the 8500
is FAR more sensitive and stable than the 7100. As a V/UHF radio
alone, it is worth getting.

Now, what the Uniden will get you that the ICOM won't have is trunk
tracking and a faster scan rate. And a cheaper price. On all other
measures, the ICOM is superior. (I own a Uniden 780 TT3.)

If I were in your shoes, I'd keep the other two and add the '8500.
Especially if you are chasing V/UHF weak signal stuff, or want a radio
with stunningly pleasant audio on AM, or is built like a tank.

Obviously I'm an '8500 fan. It would be interesting to hear a
contrarian point of view from someone who owns or owned an '8500 and
found it wanting.

Eric

Peter Maus wrote:


Now, why am I not surprised..... :)


Yeah, I know, I sound like phil blathering on about the R-75...

Actually, I was expecting you to give the other side's
perspective.

Well, I think that the radio gets a lot of hard knocks that it doesn't
deserve. Aside from the filters and some missing features, it is a
*good* radio.

A real surprise to me was seeing how Robert Sherwood ranked it in its
performance at

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html

....every time I see Bob at a hamfest I bug him to get the R-75 numbers
up there so we can do an a/b comparison.

But in the mean time, check out noise floor, ultimate rejection,
preselector, sensitivity, compared to, say, the RX-340.


How you been Eric? Things going better?

A little bit, but still touch-n-go for the moment. Sold off my R-75,
HF-150, FRG-7 and DSP-599zx, leaving the two 8500s, the RX-340, the
R-392 and the WinRadio G303i. I'm still plodding along, although the
rest of the year will be wicked, next year should improve.
--
Eric F. Richards,
"This book reads like a headache on paper."
http://www.cnn.com/2001/CAREER/readi...one/index.html

Eric F. Richards wrote:
Peter Maus wrote:



Now, why am I not surprised..... :)



Yeah, I know, I sound like phil blathering on about the R-75...


Actually, I was expecting you to give the other side's
perspective.


Well, I think that the radio gets a lot of hard knocks that it doesn't
deserve. Aside from the filters and some missing features, it is a
*good* radio.




I've never met a radio that I didn't like. Even the worst had
their charms. But IC-R8500 is fine. Not an R-9000, but what is.


As I said, I'm not a big fan of widebands.





A real surprise to me was seeing how Robert Sherwood ranked it in its
performance at

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html

...every time I see Bob at a hamfest I bug him to get the R-75 numbers
up there so we can do an a/b comparison.

But in the mean time, check out noise floor, ultimate rejection,
preselector, sensitivity, compared to, say, the RX-340.




Impressive.





How you been Eric? Things going better?


A little bit, but still touch-n-go for the moment. Sold off my R-75,
HF-150, FRG-7 and DSP-599zx, leaving the two 8500s, the RX-340, the
R-392 and the WinRadio G303i. I'm still plodding along, although the
rest of the year will be wicked, next year should improve.




Of the ones you've lost, you'll miss HF-150 the most. The ones
you kept will leave few wants.


Congrats on hanging on through a tough year. There were a couple
of times I thought I'd have had to wok the dog, myself, a few years
ago. Patience, and determination, count.

Peter Maus wrote:

A little bit, but still touch-n-go for the moment. Sold off my R-75,
HF-150, FRG-7 and DSP-599zx, leaving the two 8500s, the RX-340, the
R-392 and the WinRadio G303i. I'm still plodding along, although the
rest of the year will be wicked, next year should improve.




Of the ones you've lost, you'll miss HF-150 the most. The ones
you kept will leave few wants.


Actually I didn't use the HF-150 all that much -- I found it to be a
pain to tune and that it was too drifty to hold lock with sync AM
until the thing had been on for an hour or so.

My "goto" radio is usually the '8500. But the '340 can't be beat for
getting the signal out from under the noise. I had an amusing moment
when listening to 11.175 and some aircraft and Offutt were being
jammed and couldn't hear each other, yet I'd cancelled, notched, and
bandpassed everything out and heard them both as armchair copy.

--
Eric F. Richards

"The weird part is that I can feel productive even when I'm doomed."
- Dilbert

Eric F. Richards wrote:
Peter Maus wrote:


A little bit, but still touch-n-go for the moment. Sold off my R-75,
HF-150, FRG-7 and DSP-599zx, leaving the two 8500s, the RX-340, the
R-392 and the WinRadio G303i. I'm still plodding along, although the
rest of the year will be wicked, next year should improve.




Of the ones you've lost, you'll miss HF-150 the most. The ones
you kept will leave few wants.



Actually I didn't use the HF-150 all that much -- I found it to be a
pain to tune and that it was too drifty to hold lock with sync AM
until the thing had been on for an hour or so.



Really. Exactly opposite my experience.


I do run it off a huge regulated power supply at 14V rather than
12V. That may have something to do with it. My 7030+ is similarly
stable at the top of it's operating voltage.



My "goto" radio is usually the '8500. But the '340 can't be beat for
getting the signal out from under the noise. I had an amusing moment
when listening to 11.175 and some aircraft and Offutt were being
jammed and couldn't hear each other, yet I'd cancelled, notched, and
bandpassed everything out and heard them both as armchair copy.



Outstanding. Have you had a chance to play with RX-350? Not
quite as tasty as RX-340. Then again, not quite price tag, either.


p

Peter Maus wrote:

Eric F. Richards wrote:
Actually I didn't use the HF-150 all that much -- I found it to be a
pain to tune and that it was too drifty to hold lock with sync AM
until the thing had been on for an hour or so.



Really. Exactly opposite my experience.


I do run it off a huge regulated power supply at 14V rather than
12V. That may have something to do with it. My 7030+ is similarly
stable at the top of it's operating voltage.


Well, I'm running off 250 Ah of gel-cells, and they hold near 13.5
most of the time...

But that was my experience regardless of input supply. I was just
fortunate that when I had it on display at the hamfest where it
ultimately sold that it warmed up and stabilized as well as it did.
At the other end of the 'fest there was a guy with an AM
transmitter...



My "goto" radio is usually the '8500. But the '340 can't be beat for
getting the signal out from under the noise. I had an amusing moment
when listening to 11.175 and some aircraft and Offutt were being
jammed and couldn't hear each other, yet I'd cancelled, notched, and
bandpassed everything out and heard them both as armchair copy.



Outstanding. Have you had a chance to play with RX-350? Not
quite as tasty as RX-340. Then again, not quite price tag, either.

Only at Ten-Tec last Christmas. Since I was looking for a radio with
a bulletproof front end, I was only considering the '340. I was sure
that, as nice as the '350 is, I would have a severe case of the "If
only I bought."
--
Eric F. Richards

"The weird part is that I can feel productive even when I'm doomed."
- Dilbert

Wow...I haven't checked this thread in a couple of days. Thanks for all of
the wisdom and information. I'm still relatively new to the hobby so I have
a lot to learn. I spent several hours over the weekend doing research on
widebands and, based on that research and on the great recommendations here,
I'll stick with what I have. My Drake R8-B has enabled me to pick up
transmissions that none of the other receivers that i've owned have been
able to flush out. I guess this excite got me to thinking about what else
is out there, especially in the more esoteric frequencies. I didn't realize
that, at this point, the higher frequencies are primarily for use in data
transmissions and other such things. I simply thought there would be more
voice transmissions up there above 1.2GHz. Even if this were the case,
given my location (Southeast Kansas, USA), the odds of picking up any high
frequency voice transmissions would be slim at best; even the "air" band
around here, with a small local airport, is pretty quiet.

Again, thanks for your kind responses to my inquiry.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Jenni_is_a_Whore" wrote in message
news:8ZZpb.211$jt.139@okepread05...
Hello all. I have been into DXing for about 5 years or so, and I recently
purchased a Drake R8B. It's fantastic. Anyway, after using it for a
month
or so, I've found myself thinking about a wideband receiver to complement
my
Drake. However, I already have a Uniden BC 780 XLT scanner, which I enjoy
as well. So I guess I have 2 questions:

1. Am I really missing anything by not having a receiver that does not go
above 1.2 GHz? In other words, is it worth the $$$ to get access to the
1.2
+GHz spectrum above and beyond what my scanner will pick up?

2. Assuming that I decide to go with another receiver, do any of you have
recommendations as to a wideband receiver? I've been looking at the Icom
R-8500 and the Yaeseu VR-5000 (but the reviews I've read indicate this
thing
stinks up the joint somewhat). I was also thinking about a JRC NRD-545
with
a VHF/UHF converter, but that would probably be expensive overkill.

All comments/suggestions/wisdom welcome.

Thanks!

Should be Thank you OHIO!

Tracy