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-   -   broomstick antenna success? (https://www.radiobanter.com/shortwave/41822-broomstick-antenna-success.html)

Al Arduengo April 5th 04 04:20 PM

broomstick antenna success?
 
I just completed an atempt at construction of the "broomstick" antenna
the plans for which were found on the internet. I used a 84" x 1.5"
pole, a 14" aluminum pie pan, approximately 100" of 14/2 solid household
wire. I followed the instructions as closely as possible in the
construction. To my dismay the contraption provided absolutely *no*
increase in signal strength that I could discern. Before I call this a
flop I wanted to ask a few questions of the group:

1. Has anyone else built one and found it to work?
2. Does it really matter if the wire turns are actually touching each
other or can the be spread by up to 0.5"?
3. As much as I hate to show my lack of antenna theory knowledge, does
the type of wire covering matter? The instructions said to use 16 PVC
covered wire but I could not find this description on the available wire
at my Home Depot.
4. I made contact with the wore to the aluminum disk by stripping 1" of
the end and wrapping it round a nail between the pan and the end of the
stick such that when the nail was driven in it pressed the disk against
the bare conductor. Is this valid?
5. Does it actually matter if the feed line is connected to the whip or
the external antenna jack of the receiver?
6. How much wire should I use ideally? As much as I can fit on the
pole? Enough for a quarter wave at 5MHz?
7. I have to assume that the benefit of this sort of antenna must be
only nominal since if it worked as well as a stright wire, it would be
more widely used. How much of an increase in received signal strength
should I expect?

It took me the better part of a day to gather the supplies and construct
it so I hesitate to let the project go until I hear from experienced
users that it is not worth it. I welcome any suggestions or critique.

Best,
-Al A.

Telamon April 6th 04 07:14 AM

In article ,
Al Arduengo wrote:

I just completed an atempt at construction of the "broomstick" antenna
the plans for which were found on the internet. I used a 84" x 1.5"
pole, a 14" aluminum pie pan, approximately 100" of 14/2 solid household
wire. I followed the instructions as closely as possible in the
construction. To my dismay the contraption provided absolutely *no*
increase in signal strength that I could discern. Before I call this a
flop I wanted to ask a few questions of the group:

1. Has anyone else built one and found it to work?


This has been covered many times and it does work. It just does not work
well.

2. Does it really matter if the wire turns are actually touching each
other or can the be spread by up to 0.5"?


It would help if the turns were separated. The larger the separation the
better. The largest separation would result in one turn or a straight
wire.

3. As much as I hate to show my lack of antenna theory knowledge, does
the type of wire covering matter? The instructions said to use 16 PVC
covered wire but I could not find this description on the available wire
at my Home Depot.


Size (diameter) here does not matter.

4. I made contact with the wore to the aluminum disk by stripping 1" of
the end and wrapping it round a nail between the pan and the end of the
stick such that when the nail was driven in it pressed the disk against
the bare conductor. Is this valid?


Sure.

5. Does it actually matter if the feed line is connected to the whip or
the external antenna jack of the receiver?


Yes depending on the radio the jack may have a desensitizing circuit to
prevent overloading the radio.

6. How much wire should I use ideally? As much as I can fit on the
pole? Enough for a quarter wave at 5MHz?


This antenna will have a tendency to work at the quarter wave length and
higher frequencies.

7. I have to assume that the benefit of this sort of antenna must be
only nominal since if it worked as well as a stright wire, it would be
more widely used. How much of an increase in received signal strength
should I expect?


See #2.

It took me the better part of a day to gather the supplies and construct
it so I hesitate to let the project go until I hear from experienced
users that it is not worth it. I welcome any suggestions or critique.


Sorry you wasted your time. You can use the wire to make another antenna
type. Lot's of web sites tell you how.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Matti Ponkamo April 6th 04 10:33 AM

According to what I think I know about antennas,
I'd say it works a little better than a dummy load.

I had one in the early 70's when I was (only) SWL'ing,
and the reception became much better when I "pulled"
the wire to a L-type horizontal antenna. I guess that
the total length from the feedpoint to the capacitance
"hat" is never enough however much one uses wire.

Matti Ponkamo OH1GPU, Naantali, Finland



Dale Parfitt April 6th 04 01:44 PM


"Al Arduengo" wrote in message
...
I just completed an atempt at construction of the "broomstick" antenna
the plans for which were found on the internet. I used a 84" x 1.5"
pole, a 14" aluminum pie pan, approximately 100" of 14/2 solid household
wire. I followed the instructions as closely as possible in the
construction. To my dismay the contraption provided absolutely *no*
increase in signal strength that I could discern. Before I call this a
flop I wanted to ask a few questions of the group:

1. Has anyone else built one and found it to work?
2. Does it really matter if the wire turns are actually touching each
other or can the be spread by up to 0.5"?
3. As much as I hate to show my lack of antenna theory knowledge, does
the type of wire covering matter? The instructions said to use 16 PVC
covered wire but I could not find this description on the available wire
at my Home Depot.
4. I made contact with the wore to the aluminum disk by stripping 1" of
the end and wrapping it round a nail between the pan and the end of the
stick such that when the nail was driven in it pressed the disk against
the bare conductor. Is this valid?
5. Does it actually matter if the feed line is connected to the whip or
the external antenna jack of the receiver?
6. How much wire should I use ideally? As much as I can fit on the
pole? Enough for a quarter wave at 5MHz?
7. I have to assume that the benefit of this sort of antenna must be
only nominal since if it worked as well as a stright wire, it would be
more widely used. How much of an increase in received signal strength
should I expect?

It took me the better part of a day to gather the supplies and construct
it so I hesitate to let the project go until I hear from experienced
users that it is not worth it. I welcome any suggestions or critique.

Best,
-Al A.


For some odd reason, people expect that if you wind 100' of wire onto a
stick, it will perform like a 100' random wire- or better than say, 50'
wound onto a stick. It's all about capture area.

Dale W4OP



RHF April 6th 04 05:30 PM

Telamon,

One of the more 'exciting' stories concerning the BroomStick
Antenna in the Middle East. This Guy built a 18Ft Long/Tall
BroomStick on 4" PVC Pipe. Plus, he had a 750 Ft Random Wire
Antenna connected to the Top of the BroomStick Antenna !

Hello - He had a 750 Longwire Antenna [.]

~ RHF
..
..
= = = Telamon wrote in message
= = = ...
In article ,
Al Arduengo wrote:

I just completed an atempt at construction of the "broomstick" antenna
the plans for which were found on the internet. I used a 84" x 1.5"
pole, a 14" aluminum pie pan, approximately 100" of 14/2 solid household
wire. I followed the instructions as closely as possible in the
construction. To my dismay the contraption provided absolutely *no*
increase in signal strength that I could discern. Before I call this a
flop I wanted to ask a few questions of the group:

1. Has anyone else built one and found it to work?


This has been covered many times and it does work. It just does not work
well.

2. Does it really matter if the wire turns are actually touching each
other or can the be spread by up to 0.5"?


It would help if the turns were separated. The larger the separation the
better. The largest separation would result in one turn or a straight
wire.

3. As much as I hate to show my lack of antenna theory knowledge, does
the type of wire covering matter? The instructions said to use 16 PVC
covered wire but I could not find this description on the available wire
at my Home Depot.


Size (diameter) here does not matter.

4. I made contact with the wore to the aluminum disk by stripping 1" of
the end and wrapping it round a nail between the pan and the end of the
stick such that when the nail was driven in it pressed the disk against
the bare conductor. Is this valid?


Sure.

5. Does it actually matter if the feed line is connected to the whip or
the external antenna jack of the receiver?


Yes depending on the radio the jack may have a desensitizing circuit to
prevent overloading the radio.

6. How much wire should I use ideally? As much as I can fit on the
pole? Enough for a quarter wave at 5MHz?


This antenna will have a tendency to work at the quarter wave length and
higher frequencies.

7. I have to assume that the benefit of this sort of antenna must be
only nominal since if it worked as well as a stright wire, it would be
more widely used. How much of an increase in received signal strength
should I expect?


See #2.

It took me the better part of a day to gather the supplies and construct
it so I hesitate to let the project go until I hear from experienced
users that it is not worth it. I welcome any suggestions or critique.


Sorry you wasted your time. You can use the wire to make another antenna
type. Lot's of web sites tell you how.


donutbandit April 6th 04 07:09 PM

Al Arduengo wrote in
:

It took me the better part of a day to gather the supplies and construct
it so I hesitate to let the project go until I hear from experienced
users that it is not worth it. I welcome any suggestions or critique.


It's not worth it. Lousy antenna. I have one out on my patio waiting for me
to reclaim the wire off it. A 20 foot longwire out performs it.

Tony Meloche April 6th 04 07:48 PM



donutbandit wrote:

Al Arduengo wrote in
:

It took me the better part of a day to gather the supplies and construct
it so I hesitate to let the project go until I hear from experienced
users that it is not worth it. I welcome any suggestions or critique.


It's not worth it. Lousy antenna. I have one out on my patio waiting for me
to reclaim the wire off it. A 20 foot longwire out performs it.




Basically, I agree with donutbandit. The attractive things about a
broomstick are compactness and relative portability. But I've use both
broomstick and longwire extensively, and the longwire will beat the
'stick almost every time (though IMHO, a good broomstick and a *20* foot
longwire will not differ much in performance). But if you can string
50' or more of wire for a longwire, it will usually beat the broomstick
every time.

If you like to take a good, small portable on vacation, and want
noticeably better performance than the whip, a broomstick can be the
perect solution, though.

Tony


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Mark S. Holden April 6th 04 08:39 PM

Tony Meloche wrote:

donutbandit wrote:

Al Arduengo wrote in
:

It took me the better part of a day to gather the supplies and construct
it so I hesitate to let the project go until I hear from experienced
users that it is not worth it. I welcome any suggestions or critique.


It's not worth it. Lousy antenna. I have one out on my patio waiting for me
to reclaim the wire off it. A 20 foot longwire out performs it.


Basically, I agree with donutbandit. The attractive things about a
broomstick are compactness and relative portability. But I've use both
broomstick and longwire extensively, and the longwire will beat the
'stick almost every time (though IMHO, a good broomstick and a *20* foot
longwire will not differ much in performance). But if you can string
50' or more of wire for a longwire, it will usually beat the broomstick
every time.

If you like to take a good, small portable on vacation, and want
noticeably better performance than the whip, a broomstick can be the
perect solution, though.

Tony



If you don't need something that'll stand up on it's own a slinky is more compact for travel, and if you have room, odds are you can make it longer than a broom stick you'd want to carry along.

I use a 3 meter folding military whip antenna when I want something I can plunk down and use without needing to figure out supports. It breaks down to something about 20" long that's about 2" wide.

Diverd4777 April 7th 04 02:30 AM


If you like to take a good, small portable on vacation, and want
noticeably better performance than the whip, a broomstick can be the
perect solution, though.

Tony

BUT, even better, is just stringing up 30 - 60 feet of wire & hooking it up to
the whip..

Dan


Tony Meloche April 7th 04 03:21 AM



Diverd4777 wrote:


If you like to take a good, small portable on vacation, and want
noticeably better performance than the whip, a broomstick can be the
perect solution, though.

Tony

BUT, even better, is just stringing up 30 - 60 feet of wire & hooking it up to
the whip..

Dan




It is better if you're in a cabin in the woods.


It's not better if you're in a hotel room, though.

Tony


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Jay Heyl April 7th 04 03:41 AM

In article , rhf-say-
says...
Telamon,

One of the more 'exciting' stories concerning the BroomStick
Antenna in the Middle East. This Guy built a 18Ft Long/Tall
BroomStick on 4" PVC Pipe. Plus, he had a 750 Ft Random Wire
Antenna connected to the Top of the BroomStick Antenna !

Hello - He had a 750 Longwire Antenna [.]


I've seen you mention this before, but, as I recall the story, the 750
foot longwire was an existing antenna. One would assume the guy knew
how the existing longwire performed and would not be raving about the
broomstick if the performance were not significantly better than that of
the longwire alone.

Admittedly, the whole annecdote needs significantly more information to
be able to draw any kind of legitimate conclusion about the longwire or
either of the broomsticks. And it would have been nice if he'd used a
bit more scientific method and a lot less "kitchen sink" in his approach
to antenna evaluation. But, barring further evidence, I don't think it's
valid to completely discount the broomstick by assuming the longwire was
doing all the work.

I'm not saying the broomstick is a wonder antenna, just that there is no
clear evidence in this annecdote to shoot it down.

-- Jay

Mark S. Holden April 7th 04 05:14 AM

Tony Meloche wrote:


Diverd4777 wrote:
snip


BUT, even better, is just stringing up 30 - 60 feet of wire & hooking it up to
the whip..

Dan



It is better if you're in a cabin in the woods.


It's not better if you're in a hotel room, though.

Tony


For hotel rooms, loops are pretty good. Most will fit in a suitcase,
and they're less likely to pick up RFI than a broomstick or whip.

I suppose if you expected to use it often, you could make one in the lid
of your suitcase or attaché case - though these might be a little more
interesting than you'd like at airports.


Tony Meloche April 7th 04 05:23 AM



"Mark S. Holden" wrote:

Tony Meloche wrote:


Diverd4777 wrote:
snip


BUT, even better, is just stringing up 30 - 60 feet of wire & hooking it up to
the whip..

Dan



It is better if you're in a cabin in the woods.


It's not better if you're in a hotel room, though.

Tony


For hotel rooms, loops are pretty good. Most will fit in a suitcase,
and they're less likely to pick up RFI than a broomstick or whip.

I suppose if you expected to use it often, you could make one in the lid
of your suitcase or attaché case - though these might be a little more
interesting than you'd like at airports.




Delightful observation on both points! It *could* make for a very
intersting (and possibly quite effective) antenna,and it *could* make
for a world of grief in airports! Shazam!

Tony


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Mark S. Holden April 7th 04 05:47 AM

Tony Meloche wrote:


"Mark S. Holden" wrote:

Tony Meloche wrote:


Diverd4777 wrote:
snip

BUT, even better, is just stringing up 30 - 60 feet of wire & hooking it up to
the whip..

Dan


It is better if you're in a cabin in the woods.


It's not better if you're in a hotel room, though.

Tony


For hotel rooms, loops are pretty good. Most will fit in a suitcase,
and they're less likely to pick up RFI than a broomstick or whip.

I suppose if you expected to use it often, you could make one in the lid
of your suitcase or attaché case - though these might be a little more
interesting than you'd like at airports.





Delightful observation on both points! It *could* make for a very
intersting (and possibly quite effective) antenna,and it *could* make
for a world of grief in airports! Shazam!

Tony


I have experience with interesting equipment at airports- my 7030+ is
set up as an "ultimate portable", and the X ray machine shows a cabinet
within a cabinet, and a passle of battery packs and related circuitry
jammed inside the larger cabinet.

Whatever antenna I'm bringing goes in the suitcase, but I keep a short
antenna with the radio so I can demo it for them.



longwave April 7th 04 08:24 AM

Jay Heyl wrote:

In article , rhf-say-
says...
Telamon,

One of the more 'exciting' stories concerning the BroomStick
Antenna in the Middle East. This Guy built a 18Ft Long/Tall
BroomStick on 4" PVC Pipe. Plus, he had a 750 Ft Random Wire
Antenna connected to the Top of the BroomStick Antenna !

Hello - He had a 750 Longwire Antenna [.]


I've seen you mention this before, but, as I recall the story, the 750
foot longwire was an existing antenna. One would assume the guy knew
how the existing longwire performed and would not be raving about the
broomstick if the performance were not significantly better than that of
the longwire alone.

Admittedly, the whole annecdote needs significantly more information to
be able to draw any kind of legitimate conclusion about the longwire or
either of the broomsticks. And it would have been nice if he'd used a
bit more scientific method and a lot less "kitchen sink" in his approach
to antenna evaluation. But, barring further evidence, I don't think it's
valid to completely discount the broomstick by assuming the longwire was
doing all the work.

I'm not saying the broomstick is a wonder antenna, just that there is no
clear evidence in this annecdote to shoot it down.

-- Jay


He made a base loaded long wire.


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Diverd4777 April 7th 04 12:19 PM


It is better if you're in a cabin in the woods.


It's not better if you're in a hotel room, though.

Tony


Ah!

quite true..

In hotel rooms,( or the hotel rooms I've been in )

I've found wrapping wire in a spiral round a 1 liter plastic bottle & setting
it on the windowsill, then leading the signal over to the radio helps;

- When venturing into airports, remember that your luggage will be searched
* thoroughly *,
and the batteries taken out of All electronic devices..
So anything in Memory Goes away

Since this, I just write 'em down or travel with a copy of M.T.

Dan

Carl - w5su April 7th 04 12:40 PM

You just made yourself the equivalent of a Hamstick. There's some
frequency out there at which it's going to work like gangbusters! At
that frequency it should outperform your other antennas. But as you get
away from that frequency, whatever it is, it will be worse than a
straight wire antenna.

/Carl

Al Arduengo wrote:

I just completed an atempt at construction of the "broomstick" antenna
the plans for which were found on the internet. I used a 84" x 1.5"
pole, a 14" aluminum pie pan, approximately 100" of 14/2 solid household
wire. I followed the instructions as closely as possible in the
construction. To my dismay the contraption provided absolutely *no*
increase in signal strength that I could discern. Before I call this a
flop I wanted to ask a few questions of the group:

1. Has anyone else built one and found it to work?
2. Does it really matter if the wire turns are actually touching each
other or can the be spread by up to 0.5"?
3. As much as I hate to show my lack of antenna theory knowledge, does
the type of wire covering matter? The instructions said to use 16 PVC
covered wire but I could not find this description on the available wire
at my Home Depot.
4. I made contact with the wore to the aluminum disk by stripping 1" of
the end and wrapping it round a nail between the pan and the end of the
stick such that when the nail was driven in it pressed the disk against
the bare conductor. Is this valid?
5. Does it actually matter if the feed line is connected to the whip or
the external antenna jack of the receiver?
6. How much wire should I use ideally? As much as I can fit on the
pole? Enough for a quarter wave at 5MHz?
7. I have to assume that the benefit of this sort of antenna must be
only nominal since if it worked as well as a stright wire, it would be
more widely used. How much of an increase in received signal strength
should I expect?

It took me the better part of a day to gather the supplies and construct
it so I hesitate to let the project go until I hear from experienced
users that it is not worth it. I welcome any suggestions or critique.

Best,
-Al A.



MnMikew April 7th 04 04:05 PM

I have a broomstick up in my attic feeding a dx394 in the basement. It works
OK, much better than the 20ft of wire on the whip (inside). Got a 100' wire
antenna Im going to put up this spring.



RHF April 7th 04 05:24 PM

= = = longwave wrote in message
= = = ...

- - - - - S N I P - - - - -

He made a base loaded long wire.


- - - - - S N I P - - - - -

LW,

Not really, the 18 Foot tall PVC Pipe 'wire wound' Broomstick
Antenna at these Shortwave HF would efectively appear to be a
[Hollow] Metal Tube acting as a vertical antenna element.
( A piece of Copper Pipe. )

The better arangement would be to take a piece of PVC Pipe with
a "T" on Top. Start with a piece of wire, and have a single
loading coil wound for a specific frequency; and then run the
wire up to the "T" and through it and out horizontally for as
many feet as you can run the wire.

Indoors - Stick the PVC Pipe in the corner of a room and have
the top wire circle the room at near the ceiling level.

Simply - A Folded Inverted "L" Antenna with a Loading Coil
designed for a single target Shortwave Band.

If this is then your thing - The 'build' a series of them
if you need coverage on more bands.

iane ~ RHF

..

RHF April 7th 04 05:31 PM

= = = donutbandit wrote in message
= = = ...
Al Arduengo wrote in
:

It took me the better part of a day to gather the supplies and construct
it so I hesitate to let the project go until I hear from experienced
users that it is not worth it. I welcome any suggestions or critique.


It's not worth it. Lousy antenna. I have one out on my patio waiting for me
to reclaim the wire off it. A 20 foot longwire out performs it.



DnB,

That's why they sell those small 23 Foot Roll-Up Antennas that
can Clip to the WHip Antennas of most AM/FM/SW Radios.

What Works... WORKS !


iane ~ RHF

..

Patchmaster April 7th 04 09:23 PM

longwave wrote in message ...

He made a base loaded long wire.


And this means what, exactly? That the 6m pipe with 1200m of wire did
nothing but provide a better impedance match between the radio and the
existing longwire?

Diverd4777 April 7th 04 11:24 PM

Question:
How does one make a loading coil for a specific frequency;

- &
Has anyone made SEVERAL loading coils, switching between them
( all hooked to a long wire)
for better reception on different frequencies

- What works WORKS !!

Dan / NYC


In article ,
(Patchmaster) writes:


He made a base loaded long wire.


And this means what, exactly? That the 6m pipe with 1200m of wire did
nothing but provide a better impedance match between the radio and the
existing longwire?







Telamon April 8th 04 04:28 AM

In article ,
Carl - w5su wrote:

You just made yourself the equivalent of a Hamstick. There's some
frequency out there at which it's going to work like gangbusters! At
that frequency it should outperform your other antennas. But as you get
away from that frequency, whatever it is, it will be worse than a
straight wire antenna.


snip

Don't leave them in suspense Carl. Tell them what that very narrow
frequency is OK.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

CW April 8th 04 08:59 AM


"Carl - w5su" wrote in message
m...
You just made yourself the equivalent of a Hamstick. There's some
frequency out there at which it's going to work like gangbusters! At
that frequency it should outperform your other antennas.



Only if his other antennas are equally bad.



Mark Keith April 8th 04 09:02 AM

(Diverd4777) wrote in message ...
Question:
How does one make a loading coil for a specific frequency;


You usually use inductive loading to tune a shorter than 1/4 wave
radiator to an electrical 1/4 wave. The amount of inductance needed
will vary as to what freq you want to tune to, and the size of the
radiator. My mobile antenna uses a loading coil. A broomstick, if it
is what I think you mean, is a helical antenna, and is continuously
loaded along it's whole length.

- &
Has anyone made SEVERAL loading coils, switching between them
( all hooked to a long wire)
for better reception on different frequencies


It's much simpler to use one coil, and tap it for the freq to be used.
IE:
My mobile antenna uses a homebrew loading coil "3 inches diameter and
maybe 10-12 inches long" that will tune my 10 ft tall center loaded
whip down to 80m. "3.5-4.0 mhz" But it also has a tap for each of the
higher bands all the way up to 10m. It works all bands 80-10 with one
coil. I just change the jumper from the base of the coil, to whatever
tap I want. I do have to change to shorter stinger whips 12m up, as
my antenna is then full size, and the coil is bypassed by the jumper.
An outbacker mobile antenna is an example of a helical whip which is
tapped for different bands with a banana plug jumper at different
points along the whip.

- What works WORKS !!


It works. MK


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