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"Telamon" wrote in message ... In article .net, "Stephen M.H. Lawrence" wrote: "Frank Dresser" wrote | AM IBOC has been around for a year or two, and it's still something of a | novelty. It doesn't seem to be taking off as quickly as AM Stereo, and | there aren't many receivers available, yet. I've read the "pro and con" editorials in Radio World and some of the other trade rags, but every single editorialist misses the following point: Sound quality is not the problem. PROGRAMMING is the problem. We probably shouldn't rely on anecdotal evidence, but everyone I know will put up with natural and manmade noise to hear their favorite shows. Come to think of it, there's no evidence that DRM or IBOC have anything close to a robust noise - fighting system. I imagine a good thunderstorm will cause dropped packets and receiver muting. Another problem is multiple layering of compression and expansion codec schemes. Has anyone listened to a (usually) decent - quality AM plant that is transmitting supercompressed talk show audio at a bandwidth of 5 KHZ with a low, low, low bitrate? Something along the lines of 8 to 16 KHz bitrate? That fact alone puts the lie to the digital pushers' rants about "Audio quality." snip DRM - Deception Radio Mondiale Another lie is the system is open and contains no proprietary intellectual property. It won't be any better under the best of circumstances where you will trade noise and interference for drop outs. DRM is a lame scheme. Digital radio and television are lame schemes, period. To get the same quality as analog, you have to have a much wider bandwidth in digital. Encoding schemes are ways of narrowing bandwidth required to broadcast, but they all have some trade-offs. I've not been impressed with digital satellite at all. Too much weather related dropout, and too much pixelization, especially during fast scene transitions.. |
"Ruud Poeze" wrote in message ... And that is the whole point. At this end of the ocean the DRM consortium people really believe in a replacement of analogue AM broadcasting to digital within "a couple of years". AM to FM took almost 40 years, and AM is still on, the advantages to FM over AM are more spectacular than DRM over AM in a world where also FM is available and the most popular band. Actualy DRM is ruining the AM band and I dont like the idea of one broadcasting band with 2 incompatable modulation systems. DRM only causes a lot of noise on your receiver and is already irritating the audience. ruud Digital modulation might fit within the same channel bandwidth as an analog channel, but it's obvious to anyone who listens that it has much more interference potential. Analog modulation normally puts only a small percentage of power at the ends of it's allowed bandwidth, and that power is intermittant. Digital modulation puts as much power at the ends of it's spectrum as anywhere else, and the noise is continous. Glenn Hauser has been reading reports from DXers blasting DRM. Among the most prominent of these DXers is Ralph Brandi. Frank Dresser |
Stephen M.H. Lawrence wrote:
My idea of "High Definition Radio" is a 20-KHz-wide AM signal, well - modulated. (See, I spelled kilohertz incorrectly again. Limey Steve at www.digitalradiotech.co.uk must be shaking with anger!) If you want to demonstrate that you're an ignorant peasant then that's completely up to you. Yanks call Brits "limeys" because there was a shortage of limes on British ships (about the time we decided to go over and create America), so sailors died of scurvy apparently. But seeing as British people don't tend to sail to America in wind-powered ships these days, don't you think it's a bit of an outdated put-down? Here's some more up to date put-downs: * The American people voted George W Bush to be your president, despite the fact that he clearly has an IQ that would classify him as being mentally-retarded in the UK. * You've got Jack Nicholson in his role as The Joker from Batman as your Defence Secretary, and he's even keeping in character by getting his underlings to do a bit of torture. * You're all fat. 73, Is that your waistline? -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info DAB sounds worse than FM, Freeview, digital satellite, cable and broadband internet radio |
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote: Stephen M.H. Lawrence wrote: My idea of "High Definition Radio" is a 20-KHz-wide AM signal, well - modulated. (See, I spelled kilohertz incorrectly again. Limey Steve at www.digitalradiotech.co.uk must be shaking with anger!) If you want to demonstrate that you're an ignorant peasant then that's completely up to you. Yanks call Brits "limeys" because there was a shortage of limes on British ships (about the time we decided to go over and create America), so sailors died of scurvy apparently. But seeing as British people don't tend to sail to America in wind-powered ships these days, don't you think it's a bit of an outdated put-down? Here's some more up to date put-downs: * The American people voted George W Bush to be your president, despite the fact that he clearly has an IQ that would classify him as being mentally-retarded in the UK. * You've got Jack Nicholson in his role as The Joker from Batman as your Defence Secretary, and he's even keeping in character by getting his underlings to do a bit of torture. * You're all fat. When do you folks plan on repaying that WWII debt that you still owe us? We could use the money. |
Stephen M.H. Lawrence wrote:
"nsj" wrote : Remember that we have 5.5kHz audio bandwidth AM (if that) for domestic transmissions -- not the wide bandwidth/stereo services you're used to in North America. No wonder Digitalboy What are you calling me Digitalboy for? I'm certainly no cheerleader for DAB, quite the opposite. Although I don't write off digital broadcasting per se, like a few of you seem to have done in this thread without any good evidence to back up your arguments. claimed that most radio listeners in the UK would migrate to FM if given the chance. 5 KHz must sound like crap. It does. Digital radio also sounds crap when mis-used, but it can also sound very good if implemented properly. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info DAB sounds worse than FM, Freeview, digital satellite, cable and broadband internet radio |
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
Yanks call Brits "limeys" because there was a shortage of limes on British ships (about the time we decided to go over and create America), Uhm, what about the indigenous population? -- Now Playing: Matchbox Twenty - Bent [192kbps mp3] |
Stephen M.H. Lawrence wrote:
"DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote: Wowzers, a paid shill for the cellphone audio crowd weighs in on FM in the UK. Who the hell cares, Steve - 2? The radio market in the UK is nowhere near as big a business as it is in the US. True. Americans are also much bigger than Brits in terms of being fat *******s. Now, why don't you go run along and play radio, Digital Boy? Now, you don't you go run along and play look for your penis beneath the roles of fat, lardboy? -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info DAB sounds worse than FM, Freeview, digital satellite, cable and broadband internet radio |
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote: Stephen M.H. Lawrence wrote: My idea of "High Definition Radio" is a 20-KHz-wide AM signal, well - modulated. (See, I spelled kilohertz incorrectly again. Limey Steve at www.digitalradiotech.co.uk must be shaking with anger!) If you want to demonstrate that you're an ignorant peasant then that's completely up to you. Yanks call Brits "limeys" because there was a shortage of limes on British ships (about the time we decided to go over and create America), so sailors died of scurvy apparently. But seeing as British people don't tend to sail to America in wind-powered ships these days, don't you think it's a bit of an outdated put-down? Here's some more up to date put-downs: * The American people voted George W Bush to be your president, despite the fact that he clearly has an IQ that would classify him as being mentally-retarded in the UK. * You've got Jack Nicholson in his role as The Joker from Batman as your Defence Secretary, and he's even keeping in character by getting his underlings to do a bit of torture. * You're all fat. And you are ruled by Germans... That must really **** you off! |
In message
"Brenda Ann Dyer" wrote: Digital radio and television are lame schemes, period. To get the same quality as analog, you have to have a much wider bandwidth in digital. Encoding schemes are ways of narrowing bandwidth required to broadcast, but they all have some trade-offs. I've not been impressed with digital satellite at all. Too much weather related dropout, and too much pixelization, especially during fast scene transitions.. If you're getting weather-related drop-outs, it means your dish installation is inadequate -- not big enough, not pointing in the right direction, or suffering from water penetration. -- Richard L. |
"Stephen M.H. Lawrence" schreef:
"Ruud Poeze" wrote: | And that is the whole point. | At this end of the ocean the DRM consortium people really believe in a | replacement of analogue AM broadcasting to digital within "a couple of | years". | AM to FM took almost 40 years, and AM is still on, the advantages to FM | over AM are more spectacular than DRM over AM in a world where also FM | is available and the most popular band. | Actualy DRM is ruining the AM band and I dont like the idea of one | broadcasting band with 2 incompatable modulation systems. | DRM only causes a lot of noise on your receiver and is already | irritating the audience. | | ruud *very* interesting, Ruud - do you do any listening using DRM yourself? I wonder how well DRM holds up when propagation conditions are changing, or perhaps during severe thunderstorms? 73, Steve Lawrence KAØPMD Burnsville, Minnesota (NOTE: My email address has only one "dot." You'll have to edit out the one between the "7" and the "3" in my email address if you wish to reply via email) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.688 / Virus Database: 449 - Release Date: 5/18/04 No, I dont have a DRM receiver, and I am not intending in getting one. Now on DRM is 1296 "AM" with BBC world, copying 648 in analogue. Since BBC W programme's are mostly speech based and the 648 TX sounds excellent I really cant see the need for going to the shop for DRM (Which is not there). ruud |
Frank Dresser schreef:
"Ruud Poeze" wrote in message ... And that is the whole point. At this end of the ocean the DRM consortium people really believe in a replacement of analogue AM broadcasting to digital within "a couple of years". AM to FM took almost 40 years, and AM is still on, the advantages to FM over AM are more spectacular than DRM over AM in a world where also FM is available and the most popular band. Actualy DRM is ruining the AM band and I dont like the idea of one broadcasting band with 2 incompatable modulation systems. DRM only causes a lot of noise on your receiver and is already irritating the audience. ruud Digital modulation might fit within the same channel bandwidth as an analog channel, but it's obvious to anyone who listens that it has much more interference potential. Analog modulation normally puts only a small percentage of power at the ends of it's allowed bandwidth, and that power is intermittant. Digital modulation puts as much power at the ends of it's spectrum as anywhere else, and the noise is continous. Glenn Hauser has been reading reports from DXers blasting DRM. Among the most prominent of these DXers is Ralph Brandi. Frank Dresser Indeed: DRM causes a lot of intereference if you are an analogue co-channel user. I think DRM is fine but outside the "analogue" broadcasting bands. Or use the 26 Mhz band, which is unfit for SW. ruud |
Richard L. wrote: In message "Brenda Ann Dyer" wrote: Digital radio and television are lame schemes, period. To get the same quality as analog, you have to have a much wider bandwidth in digital. Encoding schemes are ways of narrowing bandwidth required to broadcast, but they all have some trade-offs. I've not been impressed with digital satellite at all. Too much weather related dropout, and too much pixelization, especially during fast scene transitions.. If you're getting weather-related drop-outs, it means your dish installation is inadequate -- not big enough, not pointing in the right direction, or suffering from water penetration. Some of the pixelization is also due to the brodcasters using a data rate that is way too low. This and some of the other artifacts that result from the low data rate are quite annoying. But they really can't be used to say Digital broadcasts are not a viable method. Some of the best images I've seen are also digitally broadcast. It is not that it is digital that causes problems, it is poorly done digital that is the issue. Analog can also be done poorly or well. For example excessive compression and band limiting the audio just to get more punch. Just my opinion, craigm |
"DAB sounds worse than FM" schreef in bericht news:j60sc.33$VP5.8@newsfe4-win... claimed that most radio listeners in the UK would migrate to FM if given the chance. 5 KHz must sound like crap. It does. Digital radio also sounds crap when mis-used, but it can also sound very good if implemented properly. AM, FM and Digital radio can all sound good if implemented properly. gr, hwh |
"Frank Dresser" schreef in bericht ... At any rate, a practical bandwidth of 10 KHz would be a nice improvement. Yeah, I think few broadcasters get near the maximum. But, considering the average AM radio, why bother? In Europe 10 kHz would be an improvement, nut not in the U.S. I guess. And AM radio can sound very good with 10 kHz audio bandwith. (and a proper receiver). gr, hwh |
"Brenda Ann Dyer" schreef in bericht ... Digital radio and television are lame schemes, period. To get the same quality as analog, you have to have a much wider bandwidth in digital. Encoding schemes are ways of narrowing bandwidth required to broadcast, but they all have some trade-offs. I've not been impressed with digital satellite at all. Too much weather related dropout, and too much pixelization, especially during fast scene transitions.. In many cases the problems are not caused by the digital systems, but by the use of them. Too many stations on a DVB-multiplex cause pixelation. Too many stations on a DAB multiplex cause distortion. DRM and IBOC cause interference to analog stations. gr, hwh |
Brenda Ann Dyer wrote:
Digital radio and television are lame schemes, period. To get the same quality as analog, you have to have a much wider bandwidth in digital. Seems to be a personal thing. Some people are far more sensitive to some compression schemes than others. Myself, I think ATSC digital TV looks a lot better than the NTSC analog broadcast in the same 6MHz bandwidth. I do have some co-workers who really notice the MPEG compression artifacts, but I'm not one of them... -- Doug Smith W9WI Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66 http://www.w9wi.com |
"Doug Smith W9WI" schreef in bericht ... Brenda Ann Dyer wrote: Digital radio and television are lame schemes, period. To get the same quality as analog, you have to have a much wider bandwidth in digital. Seems to be a personal thing. Some people are far more sensitive to some compression schemes than others. Myself, I think ATSC digital TV looks a lot better than the NTSC analog broadcast in the same 6MHz bandwidth. I do have some co-workers who really notice the MPEG compression artifacts, but I'm not one of them... It depends on how many digital stations are punt into the space previously occupied by one analog station. In Europe four will look ok, but five or six is too much. (but cheaper per station) gr, hwh |
"hwh" schreef in bericht ... It depends on how many digital stations are punt Put, sorry gr, hwh |
"Richard L." wrote: | If you're getting weather-related drop-outs, it means your dish | installation is inadequate -- not big enough, not pointing in the | right direction, or suffering from water penetration. | | -- | Richard L. Wrongo, Limey-boy! Study the physics of microwave propagation, paying particular attention to moisture attenuation, then get back with the group when you're up to speed. More excuses from digital shills: It seems like they've got an answer for everything! 73, -- Steve Lawrence KAØPMD Burnsville, Minnesota (NOTE: My email address has only one "dot." You'll have to edit out the one between the "7" and the "3" in my email address if you wish to reply via email) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.688 / Virus Database: 449 - Release Date: 5/18/04 |
"DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote: | Now, you don't you go run along and play look for your penis beneath the | roles of fat, lardboy? Your obsession for my wedding tackle and waistline are duly noted, but sadly (for you), I am a heterosexual. Perhaps you could start a new newsgroup, something along the line of: alt.queer.argumentative.pome 73, -- Steve Lawrence KAØPMD Burnsville, Minnesota (NOTE: My email address has only one "dot." You'll have to edit out the one between the "7" and the "3" in my email address if you wish to reply via email) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.688 / Virus Database: 449 - Release Date: 5/18/04 |
"Stephen M.H. Lawrence" wrote in message hlink.net... "Richard L." wrote: | If you're getting weather-related drop-outs, it means your dish | installation is inadequate -- not big enough, not pointing in the | right direction, or suffering from water penetration. | | -- | Richard L. Wrongo, Limey-boy! Study the physics of microwave propagation, paying particular attention to moisture attenuation, then get back with the group when you're up to speed. More excuses from digital shills: It seems like they've got an answer for everything! Our AFN-TV satellite dish looks pretty much at the horizon to see the bird they use here. Under normal circumstances, we get a good solid signal with a level of about 89 and a quality of 9 or 10. When it rains hard, that can drop to 60 and 3 or 4.. and sometimes it goes out completely. It's funny sometimes that there can be no rain here locally, but raining hard in the distance between the dish and the bird, and we'll lose the signal completely. I think the only thing with water penetration is Richard L. |
"Brenda Ann Dyer" wrote
| Our AFN-TV satellite dish looks pretty much at the horizon to see the bird | they use here. Under normal circumstances, we get a good solid signal with | a level of about 89 and a quality of 9 or 10. When it rains hard, that can | drop to 60 and 3 or 4.. and sometimes it goes out completely. It's funny | sometimes that there can be no rain here locally, but raining hard in the | distance between the dish and the bird, and we'll lose the signal | completely. I think the only thing with water penetration is Richard L. I was surprised that someone with Richard L's level of technical sophistication would overlook that obvious factor, but given his obsession with my physique, I guess I can't blame the guy. (EG) I think the main problem with digitalphiles is the fact that they seem to be motivated to sell something, rather than to solve any problems or find a novel approach to improve sound quality. Again, nothing against Rush Limbaugh - the older I get, the more I find myself agreeing with the guy - but he can be heard in every single market I find myself driving through. The problem of sound quality has been overstated, especially when we take into consideration the craze for consolidation and market monopolies, and the lack of anything really interesting in the way of programming. Rush used to be great fun, as radio programs go, but he's degenerated into a political cheerleader. Again, I agree with much of what the guy has to say, but he's gotten boring and stale. I can't wait for someone talented to jump in and fill the gap. (And for what it's worth, I'd group Hannity, O'Reilly, and a few others with Rush - fairly white toast, mostly boring, argumentative, sectarian cheerleading). The problem isn't sound quality, because sound quality can be had in spades. A well - engineered AM plant is a joy to listen to. But if the only thing being squeezed out is hypercompressed satellite audio, passed through mulitple compression / decompression levels in an audio chain, and served up courtesy of Messrs. Orban and Optimod, I think that the question is begged: If sound quality is so important, why aren't any AM stations making good on that premise? Nope, once again, it isn't sound quality or coverage area. The problem is programming. 73, Steve Lawrence KAØPMD Burnsville, Minnesota (NOTE: My email address has only one "dot." You'll have to edit out the one between the "7" and the "3" in my email address if you wish to reply via email) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.688 / Virus Database: 449 - Release Date: 5/18/04 |
Stephen M.H. Lawrence wrote:
"Richard L." wrote: If you're getting weather-related drop-outs, it means your dish installation is inadequate -- not big enough, not pointing in the right direction, or suffering from water penetration. -- Richard L. Wrongo, Limey-boy! Study the physics of microwave propagation, paying particular attention to moisture attenuation, then get back with the group when you're up to speed. More excuses from digital shills: It seems like they've got an answer for everything! Nope, I cannot think of an answer to how the American people could ever vote George W Bush to be their president. I see he's fallen off his mountain bike over the weekend. I'd have thought that with all his many advisors round him someone would've thought to remind him to put his stabilizers on while learning to ride his bike? -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info DAB sounds worse than FM, Freeview, digital satellite, cable and broadband internet radio |
Stephen M.H. Lawrence wrote:
"DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote: Now, you don't you go run along and play look for your penis beneath the roles of fat, lardboy? Your obsession for my wedding tackle and waistline are duly noted, but sadly (for you), I am a heterosexual. Perhaps you could start a new newsgroup, something along the line of: alt.queer.argumentative.pome No, I'm heterosexual. It's just that the image of you rolling up your fat to find your penis amuses me. There's a simple principle that you should learn your side of the pond. It's called the principle of conservation of energy; energy is neither created nor destroyed, just converted from one form to another. So each additional jumbo hot dog you consume must be burned off somehow, or it just makes it more difficult to find your penis. Simple really. -- Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info DAB sounds worse than FM, Freeview, digital satellite, cable and broadband internet radio |
In message k.net
"Stephen M.H. Lawrence" wrote: "Richard L." wrote: | If you're getting weather-related drop-outs, it means your dish | installation is inadequate -- not big enough, not pointing in the | right direction, or suffering from water penetration. Wrongo, Limey-boy! Study the physics of microwave propagation, paying particular attention to moisture attenuation, then get back with the group when you're up to speed. Thank you, I'm well aware that moisture in the atmosphere attenuates microwave signals; nonetheless, with a properly sized and installed dish, loss of signals should be a very rare occurrence. It's only happened to me twice in quite a number of years of digital listening, and then only during exceptional rainstorms, and only for a few minutes. More excuses from digital shills: It seems like they've got an answer for everything! If I knew what a shill was, I might be able to comment on that. But on the occasions I mention, it seems a safe bet that analogue signals would have been pretty unusable too. BTW, I don't see that there was any cause to be offensive about this. 73, -- Richard L. |
In message k.net
"Stephen M.H. Lawrence" wrote: "Brenda Ann Dyer" wrote | Our AFN-TV satellite dish looks pretty much at the horizon to see the bird | they use here. Under normal circumstances, we get a good solid signal with | a level of about 89 and a quality of 9 or 10. When it rains hard, that can | drop to 60 and 3 or 4.. and sometimes it goes out completely. It's funny | sometimes that there can be no rain here locally, but raining hard in the | distance between the dish and the bird, and we'll lose the signal | completely. I think the only thing with water penetration is Richard L. I was surprised that someone with Richard L's level of technical sophistication would overlook that obvious factor, but given his obsession with my physique, I guess I can't blame the guy. I think I recall the comment you mention, but it was by another poster to the group -- not me. Perhaps you would care to check back and verify that. -- Richard L. |
"Richard L." wrote in message ... In message k.net "Stephen M.H. Lawrence" wrote: "Brenda Ann Dyer" wrote | Our AFN-TV satellite dish looks pretty much at the horizon to see the bird | they use here. Under normal circumstances, we get a good solid signal with | a level of about 89 and a quality of 9 or 10. When it rains hard, that can | drop to 60 and 3 or 4.. and sometimes it goes out completely. It's funny | sometimes that there can be no rain here locally, but raining hard in the | distance between the dish and the bird, and we'll lose the signal | completely. I think the only thing with water penetration is Richard L. I was surprised that someone with Richard L's level of technical sophistication would overlook that obvious factor, but given his obsession with my physique, I guess I can't blame the guy. I think I recall the comment you mention, but it was by another poster to the group -- not me. Perhaps you would care to check back and verify that. Richard, Not sure which comment you are referring to. I was responding to what Stephen had written, which was in turn in response to this: "Richard L." wrote: | If you're getting weather-related drop-outs, it means your dish | installation is inadequate -- not big enough, not pointing in the | right direction, or suffering from water penetration. | | -- | Richard L. As to my comment at the end of my post, it was meant as humour.. perhaps not the best, but humour nonetheless. |
In message
"Brenda Ann Dyer" wrote: Our AFN-TV satellite dish looks pretty much at the horizon to see the bird they use here. Under normal circumstances, we get a good solid signal with a level of about 89 and a quality of 9 or 10. When it rains hard, that can drop to 60 and 3 or 4.. and sometimes it goes out completely. It's funny sometimes that there can be no rain here locally, but raining hard in the distance between the dish and the bird, and we'll lose the signal completely. If the satellite is right down on the horizon, that comes more into the category of DX than normal broadcast reception, which is what most satellite users are interested in. If somebody parks a pantechnicon or erects a tower crane, or a tree comes into leaf anywhere in the next ten miles in your line of sight, then you'll probably lose your signal for that reason too. Nevertheless, you could undoubtedly improve your chances with the rain if you had a larger dish. -- Richard L. |
"Richard L." wrote in message ... In message "Brenda Ann Dyer" wrote: Our AFN-TV satellite dish looks pretty much at the horizon to see the bird they use here. Under normal circumstances, we get a good solid signal with a level of about 89 and a quality of 9 or 10. When it rains hard, that can drop to 60 and 3 or 4.. and sometimes it goes out completely. It's funny sometimes that there can be no rain here locally, but raining hard in the distance between the dish and the bird, and we'll lose the signal completely. If the satellite is right down on the horizon, that comes more into the category of DX than normal broadcast reception, which is what most satellite users are interested in. If somebody parks a pantechnicon or erects a tower crane, or a tree comes into leaf anywhere in the next ten miles in your line of sight, then you'll probably lose your signal for that reason too. Nevertheless, you could undoubtedly improve your chances with the rain if you had a larger dish. Of that I have no doubt.. I was one of the first to install C band dishes, and where I was in Oregon, a 5 meter dish was really needed for good signal level (at the time 120 degree LNA's were the norm, and no downconverting, the 4 GHz signal came right from the dish to the receiver). Some of the customers didn't want to spend the money on the 5 meter dish, and opted for a 4 meter one.. then tended to complain about sparklies in the picture.. Here, of course, we are limited. We can use the dish provided by the satellite service provider (in this case, AFN/AAFES), and that's it. Satellite TV has only recently been allowed at all in Korea, and AFN satellite service has only been brought in in the past year or so. The Korean satellite provider, SkyLife (seemingly a divison of Hong Kong based Star System) is higher in the sky, and therefor easier to receive with the same size dish (Ku band, ~0.5 meter) |
In message
"Brenda Ann Dyer" wrote: "Richard L." wrote in message ... In message k.net "Stephen M.H. Lawrence" wrote: "Brenda Ann Dyer" wrote | Our AFN-TV satellite dish looks pretty much at the horizon to see the bird | they use here. Under normal circumstances, we get a good solid signal with | a level of about 89 and a quality of 9 or 10. When it rains hard, that can | drop to 60 and 3 or 4.. and sometimes it goes out completely. It's funny | sometimes that there can be no rain here locally, but raining hard in the | distance between the dish and the bird, and we'll lose the signal | completely. I think the only thing with water penetration is Richard L. I was surprised that someone with Richard L's level of technical sophistication would overlook that obvious factor, but given his obsession with my physique, I guess I can't blame the guy. I think I recall the comment you mention, but it was by another poster to the group -- not me. Perhaps you would care to check back and verify that. Not sure which comment you are referring to. I was responding to what Stephen had written, which was in turn in response to this: Apologies for confusion -- looks as if I didn't trim the quoting quite enough. My comment was addressed to Stephen M. H. Lawrence, who has attributed to me a remark which was actually by somebody else (who has since gone uncharacteristically quiet), and was of a type that I would certainly never make on Usenet. -- Richard L. |
Brenda Ann Dyer wrote:
Our AFN-TV satellite dish looks pretty much at the horizon to see the bird they use here. Under normal circumstances, we get a good solid signal with a level of about 89 and a quality of 9 or 10. When it rains hard, that can drop to 60 and 3 or 4.. and sometimes it goes out completely. It's funny sometimes that there can be no rain here locally, but raining hard in the distance between the dish and the bird, and we'll lose the signal completely. I think the only thing with water penetration is Richard L. Yes and, as such, a bigger dish would rectify the problem. -- Now Playing: 000. Lenny Kravitz - [Mama Said #04] It Ain`t Over `Til It`s Over [211kbps m4a] |
Stephen M.H. Lawrence wrote:
"Richard L." wrote: | If you're getting weather-related drop-outs, it means your dish | installation is inadequate -- not big enough, not pointing in the | right direction, or suffering from water penetration. | | -- | Richard L. Wrongo, Limey-boy! Study the physics of microwave propagation, paying particular attention to moisture attenuation, then get back with the group when you're up to speed. More excuses from digital shills: It seems like they've got an answer for everything! Does the same thing with Ku-band analog. And *doesn't* happen with C-band digital. (our most critical link at work is Ku-band digital; we have a C-band digital hot standby) You can't eliminate the dropouts completely but increasing the gain of the system *will* improve the situation. When the signal fades due to rain attenuation, a higher-gain system will keep the signal above the noise threshold longer. -- Doug Smith W9WI Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66 http://www.w9wi.com |
Richard L. wrote:
(snip) Gaaahhh! My sincere apologies, Richard. Forgive me for an all - too - obvious case of mistaken identity! From the "FWIW" Department: Your intellect is clearly superior to that of "DAB sounds worse than FM." (and now you know that Alzheimer's can start quite young) 73, Steve Lawrence Burnsville, Minnesota |
"Stephen M.H. Lawrence" wrote in message om... Richard L. wrote: (snip) Gaaahhh! My sincere apologies, Richard. Forgive me for an all - too - obvious case of mistaken identity! From the "FWIW" Department: Your intellect is clearly superior to that of "DAB sounds worse than FM." (and now you know that Alzheimer's can start quite young) 73, Steve Lawrence Burnsville, Minnesota Probly from all those trout you ate. That mercury ya know :)) -- 73 and good DXing. Brian ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A lot of radios and 100' of rusty wire! Zumbrota, Southern MN Brian's Radio Universe http://webpages.charter.net/brianehill/ |
In article ,
Doug Smith W9WI wrote: Stephen M.H. Lawrence wrote: "Richard L." wrote: | If you're getting weather-related drop-outs, it means your dish | installation is inadequate -- not big enough, not pointing in the | right direction, or suffering from water penetration. | | -- | Richard L. Wrongo, Limey-boy! Study the physics of microwave propagation, paying particular attention to moisture attenuation, then get back with the group when you're up to speed. More excuses from digital shills: It seems like they've got an answer for everything! Does the same thing with Ku-band analog. And *doesn't* happen with C-band digital. (our most critical link at work is Ku-band digital; we have a C-band digital hot standby) You can't eliminate the dropouts completely but increasing the gain of the system *will* improve the situation. When the signal fades due to rain attenuation, a higher-gain system will keep the signal above the noise threshold longer. Rain is not the only problem for satellites. How about when they line up with the Sun? Doesn't that also cause problems? -- Telamon Ventura, California |
"Telamon" wrote in message ... Rain is not the only problem for satellites. How about when they line up with the Sun? Doesn't that also cause problems? Indeed it does... and this is one of the times of the year that this happens in the northern hemisphere. It also affects uplinks, though not so badly. Having a larger dish doesn't necessarily help in this case, since it tends to amplify the noise along with the signal. |
Doug Smith W9WI wrote:
Does the same thing with Ku-band analog. And *doesn't* happen with C-band digital. (our most critical link at work is Ku-band digital; we have a C-band digital hot standby) Why operate within Ku-band at all, if the C-band link is more reliable? -- Now Playing: something else |
Brenda Ann Dyer wrote:
"Telamon" wrote in message ... Rain is not the only problem for satellites. How about when they line up with the Sun? Doesn't that also cause problems? Indeed it does... and this is one of the times of the year that this happens in the northern hemisphere. It also affects uplinks, though not so badly. Having a larger dish doesn't necessarily help in this case, since it tends to amplify the noise along with the signal. Since geosyncronous satellites are located in relatively stationary orbits above the equator, solar interference can only happen when the position of the sun is also near the (celestial) equator. This happens near the equinoxes in March and September. The sun is currently nearing the June solstice point (+23/deg above the equator) which puts it well above the apparent positions of geosyncronous satellites. -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
Telamon wrote:
Rain is not the only problem for satellites. How about when they line up with the Sun? Doesn't that also cause problems? True. That's not unique to Ku-band; it happens at C-band too. (and of course both analog and digital) -- Doug Smith W9WI Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66 http://www.w9wi.com |
craigm wrote:
Look at the size of the dishes to answer your question. Why operate within Ku-band at all, if the C-band link is more reliable? Well, not really, because our Ku-band dish is the same size as the C-band... My understanding is that Ku-band transponder rental is cheaper. One C-band feed backs up several different Ku feeds. -- Doug Smith W9WI Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66 http://www.w9wi.com |
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