May 19 2004

SHORTWAVE BROADCASTERS TO PROMOTE DRM IN U.S.
Shortwave broadcasters in the United States want to promote Digital Radio
Mondiale, a digital transmission technology for shortwave, medium-wave/AM
and longwave.
http://www.rwonline.com/dailynews/one.php?id=5237

Thanks for the info.
It's about time they got away from this IBOC garbage.


"Mike Terry" wrote in message
...
May 19 2004

SHORTWAVE BROADCASTERS TO PROMOTE DRM IN U.S.
Shortwave broadcasters in the United States want to promote Digital Radio
Mondiale, a digital transmission technology for shortwave, medium-wave/AM
and longwave.
http://www.rwonline.com/dailynews/one.php?id=5237

"Dr. Who" schreef:

Thanks for the info.
It's about time they got away from this IBOC garbage.

But with DRM you loose your analogue audience, since it is digital only.
So for a long period of time you need 2 frequencies and 2 transmitters
at least per channel! Impossible on AM, and SW broadcasters will have a
hard time with these "double costs" for a long time.

What should be done is developing a system wich can simulcast analogue
and digital on one channel, without the disadvantages of the present
IBOC system. DRM could form the base for this.
This new system then can be used world-wide and on all AM bands! (SW,
MWorAM and LW in Europe and Asia).

Ruud


"Mike Terry" wrote in message
...
May 19 2004

SHORTWAVE BROADCASTERS TO PROMOTE DRM IN U.S.
Shortwave broadcasters in the United States want to promote Digital Radio
Mondiale, a digital transmission technology for shortwave, medium-wave/AM
and longwave.
http://www.rwonline.com/dailynews/one.php?id=5237

"Ruud Poeze" wrote in message
...
"Dr. Who" schreef:

Thanks for the info.
It's about time they got away from this IBOC garbage.

But with DRM you loose your analogue audience, since it is digital only.
So for a long period of time you need 2 frequencies and 2 transmitters
at least per channel! Impossible on AM, and SW broadcasters will have a
hard time with these "double costs" for a long time.

What should be done is developing a system wich can simulcast analogue
and digital on one channel, without the disadvantages of the present
IBOC system. DRM could form the base for this.
This new system then can be used world-wide and on all AM bands! (SW,
MWorAM and LW in Europe and Asia).

Ruud


The current hybrid AM/digital IBOC system is supposed to be transitional.
The IBOC receivers are supposed to be capable of demodulating the hybrid
modulation and a full digital modulation standard. Of course, the
transition to full digital won't happen until the broadcasters think there's
a high enough percentage of IBOC receivers in the marketplace. That won't
happen anytime soon, if ever.

I can't see why any US MW broadcaster would have any interest in DRM, even
if the FCC allows it.

Frank Dresser

"Ruud Poeze" wrote in message
...
"Dr. Who" schreef:

Thanks for the info.
It's about time they got away from this IBOC garbage.

But with DRM you loose your analogue audience, since it is digital only.
So for a long period of time you need 2 frequencies and 2 transmitters
at least per channel! Impossible on AM, and SW broadcasters will have a
hard time with these "double costs" for a long time.

I thought there was a mixed mode?

Az.

Frank Dresser wrote:
"Ruud Poeze" wrote in message
But with DRM you loose your analogue audience, since it is digital only.
So for a long period of time you need 2 frequencies and 2 transmitters
at least per channel! Impossible on AM, and SW broadcasters will have a
I can't see why any US MW broadcaster would have any interest in DRM, even
if the FCC allows it.

On the other hand, we do now have "duopoly" in the U.S. - it's now legal
for the same company to own more than one AM station in the same city.

WLAC could, for example, buy WAMB-1160. Convert WAMB to DRM, and use it
to carry the same program (but in digital mode) as WLAC. Once (if!) the
majority of listeners have DRM radios, they could swap stations for a
few years. (converting WLAC to DRM and WAMB back to analog) When the
number of analog radios in use becomes negligible, either shut off WAMB,
sell it to someone else, or start a second DRM station.

Most group owners are still far enough short of the limit for the number
of AM stations they're permitted to own in most major markets, and there
are generally enough "also-ran" small AM stations available to buy. The
coverage of the DRM stations would be less than that of the existing
analog outlets, but if the IBOC adjacent-channel interference from other
stations isn't there then the actual coverage with DRM might well be
*better*.

Of course, the *right* answer (for the listener, not for the DXer!) is
Eureka on VHF/UHF.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message
...

On the other hand, we do now have "duopoly" in the U.S. - it's now legal
for the same company to own more than one AM station in the same city.

WLAC could, for example, buy WAMB-1160. Convert WAMB to DRM, and use it
to carry the same program (but in digital mode) as WLAC. Once (if!) the
majority of listeners have DRM radios, they could swap stations for a
few years. (converting WLAC to DRM and WAMB back to analog) When the
number of analog radios in use becomes negligible, either shut off WAMB,
sell it to someone else, or start a second DRM station.

Most group owners are still far enough short of the limit for the number
of AM stations they're permitted to own in most major markets, and there
are generally enough "also-ran" small AM stations available to buy. The
coverage of the DRM stations would be less than that of the existing
analog outlets, but if the IBOC adjacent-channel interference from other
stations isn't there then the actual coverage with DRM might well be
*better*.

Yes, but if the second station doesn't increase revenues by increasing
audience, the money is wasted. Not that broadcasters haven't wasted money
like that before, they used to simulcast their AM programming on FM. But
the FCC didn't like simulcasting, and pretty much stopped it.

AM IBOC has been around for a year or two, and it's still something of a
novelty. It doesn't seem to be taking off as quickly as AM Stereo, and
there aren't many receivers available, yet.

I also don't know if there's much of a market for digital radios which
receive the same old stuff that any old cheap radio receives. Maybe if all
the radios were the same price, but IBOC hopes to make money on licensing
fees.

I don't know the bandwidth of full digital IBOC, but if the full digital
bandwidth is the same as DRM, it seems the IBOC has an advantage with the
transitional hybrid system.



Of course, the *right* answer (for the listener, not for the DXer!) is
Eureka on VHF/UHF.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com


If we ever manage how to figure out how to put satellites up reliably and
economically, the networks will probably put up high-power, non-subscription
direct broadcast satellites.


Frank Dresser

"Mike Terry" wrote in message
...
May 19 2004

SHORTWAVE BROADCASTERS TO PROMOTE DRM IN U.S.
Shortwave broadcasters in the United States want to promote Digital Radio
Mondiale, a digital transmission technology for shortwave, medium-wave/AM
and longwave.

The idea of transmitting digital-mode signals
on the short-wave bands, with their characteristic
susceptibility to fading, noise, solar blackouts and
other natural and man-made noises is almost
**as laughable** as WBCQ's plan to utilize a single
wind powered generator to supply the electricity
for their 50KW transmitters.


(WBCQ's wind power idea is akin to what the
PRR Railroad Historical Club wanted to do in the
70's, when someone came up with the idea to
power a GG1 electric locomotive +via batteries+ for
a railfan run down the NE Corridor, since the PCB
filled Xfmrs in the Locomotive were banned from
Amtrak catenary power - they discovered that 10 boxcarloads
of submarine batteries could not power a single GG1 for
more than 10 miles....amazing how history repeats.)

On Fri, 21 May 2004 17:47:43 +0200, Ruud Poeze wrote:

"Dr. Who" schreef:

Thanks for the info.
It's about time they got away from this IBOC garbage.

But with DRM you loose your analogue audience, since it is digital only.
So for a long period of time you need 2 frequencies and 2 transmitters
at least per channel! Impossible on AM, and SW broadcasters will have a
hard time with these "double costs" for a long time.

Will the cost really double?
You certainly know DRM transmissions consume less power. Example: "our"
Radio Netherlands consumes "only" 40 kW of power for the daily 9815 kHz
DRM transmission (around 12:00 GMT).
Generally, with analogue broadcasts, 2 times the DRM transmission power
is consumed.
This brings up a question. Is hiring a DRM transmitter that expensive?

Whatever the answer to that question is, I can see one point: SW
broadcasting is considered expensive (some even say superfluous) these
days. In any case, cost increase is not exactly appreciated.


What should be done is developing a system wich can simulcast analogue
and digital on one channel, without the disadvantages of the present
IBOC system. DRM could form the base for this.

hmm ... remember you only have one single 10 kHz channel at your
disposal. I think you're just asking too much, for this moment.
Who knows what future will bring.


This new system then can be used world-wide and on all AM bands! (SW,
MWorAM and LW in Europe and Asia).

If that new system becomes reality, yes (although I'm not sure whether
LW will survive - ugh those transmit antennas!).

--

mvg,
Giovanni.

Frank Dresser wrote:
Yes, but if the second station doesn't increase revenues by increasing
audience, the money is wasted. Not that broadcasters haven't wasted money
like that before, they used to simulcast their AM programming on FM. But
the FCC didn't like simulcasting, and pretty much stopped it.

True, though then again is that different from IBOC? (admittedly IBOC
is probably cheaper, though again if IBOC is accomplished at the expense
of massive interference, will that really help the bottom line?)

AM IBOC has been around for a year or two, and it's still something of a
novelty. It doesn't seem to be taking off as quickly as AM Stereo, and
there aren't many receivers available, yet.

True.

I also don't know if there's much of a market for digital radios which
receive the same old stuff that any old cheap radio receives. Maybe if all
the radios were the same price, but IBOC hopes to make money on licensing
fees.

And again true.


--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com