Truth wrote:
Harris wrote:
To oversimplify a bit: Low frequencies (like AM broadcast) pass through
the body without being absorbed. Microwave frequencies bounce off the body
without being absorbed.

ROTFFL!!!

Why not PROVE your ridiculous theory by putting your head into a microwave oven!

I said this was a simplification. The point is that maximum absorption
occurs in the 30 to 300 MHz range. Microwave frequencies are used for
cooking because they are more practical to produce, not because they
are more effective at heating.

See the ANSI (American National Standards Institute) exposure limits
curve below:

http://www-training.llnl.gov/wbt/hc/.../slide34lg.gif

Greatest rf absorption (minimum allowable exposure) is in the 30 to
300 MHz range.

Art H.

900 MHz are NOT microwaves

Interesting. Especially since the older microwave ovens operated on 800 and
900 Mhz.

Why are people who are uneducated in certain subjects always the first to jump
in on a conversation and tell everyone else how they think things really are?

To oversimplify a bit: Low frequencies (like AM broadcast) pass through
the body without being absorbed. Microwave frequencies bounce off the body
without being absorbed.

ROTFFL!!!

Why not PROVE your ridiculous theory by putting your head into a microwave oven!

I once worked with a guy who claimed he could hear microwaves. He said
that he could tell when the radar system was in operation and when it
wasn't by the sound. We did a simple blind test up on the roof, and it
became pretty clear that he could tell.

Turns out that what he was hearing was conducted noise from his skull
expanding due to heating effects. Admittedly this was with well over a
megawatt ERP. But it was definitely being absorbed.

What a very bright individual. It frightens me that someone like that was allowed
to get close to that equipment in the first place. They put all the rest of us at
risk.

SOME microwave frequencies get absorbed very well by water, some do not.
The body being mostly water,

Especially the EYES in our heads, so close to the cell phone antennas.

Truth wrote:

900 MHz are NOT microwaves


Interesting. Especially since the older microwave ovens operated on 800 and
900 Mhz.

Why are people who are uneducated in certain subjects always the first to jump
in on a conversation and tell everyone else how they think things really are?



Because they want to appear educated.

"Truth" wrote in message ...
900 MHz are NOT microwaves

Interesting. Especially since the older microwave ovens operated on 800
and
900 Mhz.

Why are people who are uneducated in certain subjects always the first to
jump
in on a conversation and tell everyone else how they think things really
are?


ref http://www.naval.com/radio-bands.htm


ref
http://chemindustry.intota.com/multi...ve%20frequency

ref http://www.k5rmg.org/A-soup.html

in most definitions microwaves start at 1GHz or 30CM

what frequencies "microwave ovens" use is irrelevant as marketers can pretty
much name anything what they want.

"Truth" wrote in message ...
900 MHz are NOT microwaves

Interesting. Especially since the older microwave ovens operated on 800 and
900 Mhz.

Why are people who are uneducated in certain subjects always the first to jump
in on a conversation and tell everyone else how they think things really are?

Yeah, why is that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave

(For the non-curious, the paragraph of interest says:

Microwaves, also known as Super High Frequency (SHF) signals, have wavelengths
approximately in the range of 30 cm (1 GHz) to 1 mm (300 GHz).

)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there's nothing that offends you in your community, then you know you're not
living in a free society.
Kim Campbell - ex-Prime Minister of Canada - 2004
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For direct replies, take out the contents between the hyphens. -Really!-

Is AM Radio Harmful? Only if you listen to it.

Microwaves, also known as Super High Frequency (SHF) signals, have
wavelengths
approximately in the range of 30 cm (1 GHz) to 1 mm (300 GHz).


if all microwaves are SHF, then there isn't any microwave oven that I know of
that actually uses microwaves. So why call it a microwave oven? ;)

SHF starts at 3 GHZ (300 MHZ), not at 1 GHZ (100 ghz).

I've read that most microwave ovens operate in or around the 2.4 GHZ band
(which is UHF, not SHF).

Interesting. Especially since the older microwave ovens operated on 800
and
900 Mhz.


I think the confusion here comes from certain articles.

while 900 mhz was considered microwaves, hence the name "microwave ovens" when
they were invented,

most of the articles I read that mentioned the microwave band starting at
around 1 ghz actually say thst microwaves "start at around 1 ghz",

instead of saying that they do start around 1 ghz.

I consider 900 mhz to be "around" 1 ghz.

I think that a lot of people took the word "around" to mean "does".

and then they might have even printed up websites theirselves that say they do
start at 1 ghz.

On 05 Sep 2004 22:09:03 GMT, (Stereophile22)
wrote:

Microwaves, also known as Super High Frequency (SHF) signals, have
wavelengths
approximately in the range of 30 cm (1 GHz) to 1 mm (300 GHz).


if all microwaves are SHF, then there isn't any microwave oven that I know of
that actually uses microwaves. So why call it a microwave oven? ;)

Marketing.

Remember "Radar Ranges"?

Why is the sonicare toothbrush so called, except to attempt a
connection with true ultra-sonic cleaners and the way they work?

Marketing.

Remember "Radar Ranges"?

Why is the sonicare toothbrush so called, except to attempt a
connection with true ultra-sonic cleaners and the way they work?


I don't remember the ""radar ranges". although I'm sure thre was such stufff.

however, you did make very good points here.

"Stereophile22" wrote in message
...
Marketing.

Remember "Radar Ranges"?

Why is the sonicare toothbrush so called, except to attempt a
connection with true ultra-sonic cleaners and the way they work?


I don't remember the ""radar ranges". although I'm sure thre was such
stufff.

however, you did make very good points here.



Excerpt from the site below:

The first Raytheon commercial microwave oven was the 1161 Radarange, which
was marketed in 1954. Rated at 1600 watts, it was so large and expensive
that it was practical only for restaurant and institutional use.
In 1967, Amana, a division of Raytheon, introduced its domestic Radarange
microwave oven, marking the beginning of the use of microwave ovens in home
kitchens. Although sales were slow during the first few years, partially due
to the oven's relatively expensive price tag, the concept of quick microwave
cooking had arrived. In succeeding years, Litton and a number of other
companies joined the countertop microwave oven market. By the end of 1971,
the price of countertop units began to decrease and their capabilities were
expanded.

http://www.ideafinder.com/history/in...s/story068.htm

Microwaves, also known as Super High Frequency (SHF) signals, have wavelengths
approximately in the range of 30 cm (1 GHz) to 1 mm (300 GHz).

This is a pathetic attempt to avoid the real issue and turn the argument another way
to avoid the statement they were unable to dispute.

Saying microwaves magically start at 1000 Mhz, and saying 999 Mhz is not, and 800
Mhz is not, is bull**** talk.

Regardless of where you want to call it, the FACT remains that Microwave Ovens were
manufactured that cooked your food with frequencies in the 800 Mhz region.

So, since we can cook food and heat at 800 Mhz, and since cell phones are using the
same frequency range, we can make a definite connection here.

Any attempt to shift the discussion to one about where we now want to classify the
word "microwaves" to be appropriate is just childish and ignorant, and nothing more
than diversion from the point about cell phones being dangerous.

LEGAL exposure to certain RF in Russia can be different than the LEGAL limits in the
US. As if RF follows any of these laws, or as if a cell phone is not going to harm
you just because you change the definition of what can be legally called microwaves.

What was considered low blood pressure a decade ago, is now being called high blood
pressure in an attempt to sell more medication and make more money. Just the AMA
changing the imaginary boundary line did not make us all suddenly have high blood
pressure, just as your changing what is now considered microwaves has no effect on
this issue either.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there's nothing that offends you in your community, then you know you're not
living in a free society.

If there is nothing that offends you in your community, then you ALSO know you're
not living in a dictatorship either.

This is a stupid play on words that is meaningless!

You can NEVER have any society in which nothing offends anyone! Not under ANY
government.

Idiots.

Truth wrote:

Regardless of where you want to call it, the FACT remains that Microwave Ovens were
manufactured that cooked your food with frequencies in the 800 Mhz region.

So, since we can cook food and heat at 800 Mhz, and since cell phones are using the
same frequency range, we can make a definite connection here.


Three things:

1) You need to recheck the frequency of the magnetrons in microwave
ovens.
2) You need to recompare the power levels between microwave ovens and
cell phones (*cough* 0.3 W v. 1500 W, a factor of 5000 difference
*cough*)
3) *Plonk*

So, since we can cook food and heat at 800 Mhz, and since cell phones are
using the
same frequency range, we can make a definite connection here.

since we will die if we walk into a blast furnace we has best not even light
a candle.
great logic

Any attempt to shift the discussion to one about where we now want to
classify the
word "microwaves" to be appropriate is just childish and ignorant, and
nothing more
than diversion from the point about cell phones being dangerous.

cell phones don't even make good blunt instrument any more, just too light.


LEGAL exposure to certain RF in Russia can be different than the LEGAL
limits in the
US. As if RF follows any of these laws, or as if a cell phone is not
going to harm
you just because you change the definition of what can be legally called
microwaves.

your wild allegations are unsupported by any credible sources.


What was considered low blood pressure a decade ago, is now being called
high blood
pressure in an attempt to sell more medication and make more money.

an unwarranted assumption

Just the AMA
changing the imaginary boundary line did not make us all suddenly have
high blood
pressure, just as your changing what is now considered microwaves has no
effect on
this issue either.


since the dawn if time he earth has been drenched in radio waves and
radiation. since the advent of electromagnetic telecommunications and power
grid distribution mans lifespan has dramatically increased. therefore radio
waves are good for you.

"Truth" wrote in message ...

So, since we can cook food and heat at 800 Mhz, and since cell phones are
using the
same frequency range, we can make a definite connection here.

Where is the scientific data on this? Cite? Link?


--
McWebber
No email replies read
If someone tells you to forward an email to all your friends
please forget that I'm your friend.

Idiots.

Find me a cellphone which puts out the gigawattage of a microwave, as opposed
to the fractional miliwattage of an average cellphone, and maybe I will refrain
from calling you a hypocrite for calling those who understand basic physics
'idiots'.
Linus

Microwave ovens use a frequency of around 2.45 GHz, much higher than the 800
MHz cellphones, however close to the 2.5 GHz cordless phones. It's not
necessarily the frequency that one should be concerned about, but rather the
relative RF power density levels produced by each device and its proximity to
biological systems. Because cell phones/cordless phones emit such a small
power density levels, there is no observable biological effect, i.e. heating
tissue. Microwave ovens on the other hand are purposefully designed to heat
media in via HUGH amounts of RF deposition in the oven chamber via more than
1000 watts.

The distinction between a cordless phone/cellular phone and a microwave
oven can not be more clear. It like a match stick burning at a distance of
several feet and a roaring fireplace fire at the same distance...one will not
have any effect on you, the other will certainly warm your skin. Its as simple
as that.

Bruce.

Stereophile22 wrote:

Marketing.

Remember "Radar Ranges"?

Why is the sonicare toothbrush so called, except to attempt a
connection with true ultra-sonic cleaners and the way they work?



I don't remember the ""radar ranges". although I'm sure thre was such stufff.

I remeber very well the "Amana Radar Range" being advertised on TV.

Microwave ovens use a frequency of around 2.45 GHz, not 800 MHz like
cellphones, however close to the 2.5 GHz cordless phones. It's not necessarily
the frequency that one should be concerned about, but rather the relative RF
power density levels produced by each device and its proximity to biological
systems. Because cell phones/cordless phones emit such a small
power density levels, there is no observable biological effect, i.e. heating
tissue. Microwave ovens on the other hand are purposefully designed to heat
media in via HUGH amounts of RF deposition in the oven chamber via more than
1000 watts. It takes hugh amounts of RF to heat tissue because the effect is
so inefficient being we are mostly water. Long chain molecues are more
efficient at absorbing RF, but again it takes very large amounts of RF to
produce any heating effect from friction caused by vibrating the long chain
molecules together.

The distinction between a cordless phone/cellular phone and a microwave
oven cannot be more clear. It like a match stick burning at a distance of
several feet and a roaring fireplace fire at the same distance...one will not
have any effect on you, the other will certainly warm your skin. Its as simple
as that.

Bruce.

Sir Circumference wrote:
Stereophile22 wrote:
someone else wrote:
Remember "Radar Ranges"?

I don't remember the ""radar ranges". although I'm sure thre was such stufff.

I remeber very well the "Amana Radar Range" being advertised on TV.

No, you remember the Amana Radarange being advertised.

--
"The Democrats are all over this. Democratic strategists feel John Kerry's
war record means he can beat Bush. They say when it comes down to it, voters
will always vote for a war hero over someone who tried to get out of the war.
I'll be sure to mention that to Bob Dole when I see him." -- Jay Leno

Tim Perry wrote:
since the dawn if time he earth has been drenched in radio waves and
radiation. since the advent of electromagnetic telecommunications and power
grid distribution mans lifespan has dramatically increased. therefore radio
waves are good for you.

By that reasoning, so are carbon dioxide and feces.

--
"The Democrats are all over this. Democratic strategists feel John Kerry's
war record means he can beat Bush. They say when it comes down to it, voters
will always vote for a war hero over someone who tried to get out of the war.
I'll be sure to mention that to Bob Dole when I see him." -- Jay Leno

Truth wrote:

To oversimplify a bit: Low frequencies (like AM broadcast) pass through
the body without being absorbed. Microwave frequencies bounce off the body
without being absorbed.


ROTFFL!!!

Why not PROVE your ridiculous theory by putting your head into a microwave oven!

.......yeah. I didn't think so.


.....or by leaning against a 50,000 watt AM antenna while standing on the
ground.

Tim Perry wrote:

"Truth" wrote in message ...

There is still no commercially-available equipment for the 902 MHz

amateur

band that I am aware of.

Using commercially-available equipment is cheating anyway. What does it
take to modify PCS cellular phone firmware for digital communication on
902? Is it just a matter of firmware or isn't the RF section able to

tune

that far out of band?

Think of it this way. When you have an FM broadcast antenna and

transmitter, it

makes quite a difference when switching within the same band from 88 Mhz

to 100

Mhz. (only 12 Mhz)

Now you want to take something from around 850 Mhz to 902 Mhz (52 Mhz
difference)

Plus the higher up you go, the more critical the circuitry. Even in

the 440

band you are already dealing with microsurgery when using the miniature

surface

mount components.


pretty might the same for all hand held electronics these days


Besides, working with microwaves is never a good idea.


everyone has to have a hobby... 900 MHz are NOT microwaves (we call it
microwave in brroadcast, but it is a slang term for high UHF)

Might as well just take

up smoking cigarettes instead.

I would play with mercury and use lead paint in my home no problem, but I

would

not ever build a transmitter and use microwave frequencies.



gunplexers are friendly... bi-directional line-of-sight audio




How did a disussion about AM radio (later microwave RF) change to audio?

Sir Circumference wrote:
Is AM Radio Harmful? Only if you listen to it.

Oh, yeah? Try dropping a Satellite 800 on your foot.

--
"The Democrats are all over this. Democratic strategists feel John Kerry's
war record means he can beat Bush. They say when it comes down to it, voters
will always vote for a war hero over someone who tried to get out of the war.
I'll be sure to mention that to Bob Dole when I see him." -- Jay Leno

clifto wrote:

Sir Circumference wrote:

Stereophile22 wrote:

someone else wrote:

Remember "Radar Ranges"?

I don't remember the ""radar ranges". although I'm sure thre was such stufff.

I remeber very well the "Amana Radar Range" being advertised on TV.


No, you remember the Amana Radarange being advertised.

Correction duly noted.

On 8 Sep 2004 19:00:59 GMT, clifto wrote:

Tim Perry wrote:
since the dawn if time he earth has been drenched in radio waves and
radiation. since the advent of electromagnetic telecommunications and power
grid distribution mans lifespan has dramatically increased. therefore radio
waves are good for you.

By that reasoning, so are carbon dioxide and feces.

No carbon dioxide, no plants, little oxygen.

No feces, little agriculture. Well, some places anyway. :-)

OTOH, no feces, very few politicians.

"clifto" wrote in message
...
Tim Perry wrote:
since the dawn if time he earth has been drenched in radio waves and
radiation. since the advent of electromagnetic telecommunications and
power
grid distribution mans lifespan has dramatically increased. therefore
radio
waves are good for you.

By that reasoning, so are carbon dioxide and feces.


by George i think hes got it!


consider: CO2 is necessary for tree/plant life. human/animal waste products
enrich the soil, which aids plant growth. which provides healthy food, which
gives us humans more time to build and operate radio stations for the
enjoyment of the multitudes. the more people the more the cume and TSL
therefore the more cash flow and life is wonderful.

searching back trying to find who added all these freaking cross posts...
this thread just started out in
alt.radio,alt.radio.broadcasting

"clifto" wrote in message
...
Tim Perry wrote:
since the dawn if time he earth has been drenched in radio waves and
radiation. since the advent of electromagnetic telecommunications and
power
grid distribution mans lifespan has dramatically increased. therefore
radio
waves are good for you.

By that reasoning, so are carbon dioxide and feces.


Read what he was replying to. That's his point. The reasoning doesn't hold
water.

--
McWebber
"Richter points to the lack of legal action against his company as proof
that he's operating appropriately."
Information Week, November 10, 2003