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60kHz time signals in Israel?
A friend was given a clock that syncronizes itself to the 60kHz time
signal broadcasts. I know there are stations in the US (WWV?) and one in Germany. The clock cannot receive either here in Israel. Is it a question of we are simply out of range of either of them, or it needs a better antenna. A sheilded loop and preamp would not be hard to make, but I don't want to waste my time and possible damage to his clock if there is nothing to be gained. Any ideas? One that came to me is to take the time from a computer synced via NTP and transmit a signal on 60kHz to the clock. A microwatt or two would be more than enough, and any antenna at that wavelenth I could build would be a point source so radiation could be easily limited to a few feet. TIA Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, C.T.O. GW&T Ltd., Jerusalem Israel IL Voice: 972-544-608-069 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838 |
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message ... A friend was given a clock that syncronizes itself to the 60kHz time signal broadcasts. I know there are stations in the US (WWV?) and one in Germany. The clock cannot receive either here in Israel. The time signal here in the UK uses 60 kHz (MSF Rugby) which I have picked up in N. Italy on my clock. My wrist watch is updated by DCF 77 in Germany on 77 kHz. From this list it seems MSF is the only one in range. • Rugby, UK (MSF) 60kHz, 15kW • Mainflingen, Germany, (DCF77) 77.5kHz, 50kW • Colorado, USA, (WWVB) 60kHz, 50kW • Fukushima, Japan, (JJY) 40/60kHz, 10kW • Kyushu, Japan, (JYY) 60kHz, 10kW Can you pick up BBC Radio 4 on 198 kHz at night (say 0300 UTC)? If so, you *might* be able to receive Rugby. -- Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W http://www.simonmason.karoo.net |
Geoffrey S. Mendelson schrieb:
A friend was given a clock that syncronizes itself to the 60kHz time signal broadcasts. I know there are stations in the US (WWV?) and one in Germany. The clock cannot receive either here in Israel. 60 kHz, that's MSF Rugby in .uk. Not overly strong even here in Germany. In the US, there's WWVB on this frequency. Is it a question of we are simply out of range of either of them, or it needs a better antenna. Try a good communications receiver known to receive well down there with a decent antenna. If it can pick up a time signal on 60 kHz halfway well, it might be worth it. A sheilded loop and preamp would not be hard to make, but I don't want to waste my time and possible damage to his clock if there is nothing to be gained. When building an antenna, be sure to make it very selective around the desired frequency. Any ideas? You may have better luck receiving DCF77 on 77.5 kHz (Frankfurt, Germany, nominal range 2000 km but apparently also to be picked up occcasionally at night in Isreal and yet further locations [1]), but this would require modifying the clock. Actually, many radio-controlled clocks seem to be shipped in multiple versions for the various time signal stations (with the same chip but differently tuned frontends I suppose, though I have never taken one apart; OK, done that now, looks like there's a little ferrite antenna with a 6800 pF film cap in parallel forming a resonant L-C circuit for 77.5 kHz, not much else to see). One that came to me is to take the time from a computer synced via NTP and transmit a signal on 60kHz to the clock. A microwatt or two would be more than enough, and any antenna at that wavelenth I could build would be a point source so radiation could be easily limited to a few feet. This may also be an option, if you have software to generate a time signal that is. Stephan [1] http://www.heret.de/funkuhr/reichw.htm -- Meine Andere Seite: http://stephan.win31.de/ PC#6: i440BX, 1xP3-500E, 512 MiB, 18+80 GB, R9k AGP 64 MiB, 110W This is a SCSI-inside, Legacy-plus, TCPA-free computer :) |
Simon Mason wrote: "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message ... A friend was given a clock that syncronizes itself to the 60kHz time signal broadcasts. I know there are stations in the US (WWV?) and one in Germany. The clock cannot receive either here in Israel. The time signal here in the UK uses 60 kHz (MSF Rugby) which I have picked up in N. Italy on my clock. My wrist watch is updated by DCF 77 in Germany on 77 kHz. From this list it seems MSF is the only one in range. • Rugby, UK (MSF) 60kHz, 15kW • Mainflingen, Germany, (DCF77) 77.5kHz, 50kW • Colorado, USA, (WWVB) 60kHz, 50kW • Fukushima, Japan, (JJY) 40/60kHz, 10kW • Kyushu, Japan, (JYY) 60kHz, 10kW Can you pick up BBC Radio 4 on 198 kHz at night (say 0300 UTC)? If so, you *might* be able to receive Rugby. What's the problem? Tune in any one of the available frequency and time standards around the world and set your clock. I've never used a 'synchronous clock', seems like a waste of money. If you've a need for absolutely precise time you'd be better off using some other, better method than one of those clocks. dxAce |
I can't imagine anyone really needing a continually synchronizing clock. But
need is never a reason not to buy something cool. I should know... in the past year, I've bought three of those clocks myself. Why? Why not? It's cool to listen to WWV on one of my radios and watch my clocks tick exactly in sync with the radio. It's kind of like my clock make the radio beep. A true gadget freak can NEVER have enough gadgets. |
"dxAce" wrote in message ... What's the problem? Tune in any one of the available frequency and time standards around the world and set your clock. I've never used a 'synchronous clock', seems like a waste of money. Spending hundreds of dollars on a Rolex is a waste of money ;-) I've one of these watches and it's worth the money to have a timepiece that never needs correcting, especially for a DXer waiting for a station to come up on the hour. http://www.casio-europe.com/euro/watch/waveceptor/ -- Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W http://www.simonmason.karoo.net |
Simon Mason wrote: "dxAce" wrote in message ... What's the problem? Tune in any one of the available frequency and time standards around the world and set your clock. I've never used a 'synchronous clock', seems like a waste of money. Spending hundreds of dollars on a Rolex is a waste of money ;-) I've one of these watches and it's worth the money to have a timepiece that never needs correcting, especially for a DXer waiting for a station to come up on the hour. http://www.casio-europe.com/euro/watch/waveceptor/ But is that critical if one is waiting for the station to come up? I set my clocks here around once a month, never had a problem, and I've certainly done my share of DX'ing. Rolex's are nice. dxAce |
"lsmyer" ) writes: I can't imagine anyone really needing a continually synchronizing clock. But need is never a reason not to buy something cool. When they hit the thirty dollar level here, I was tempted and kept putting it off. I don't have a need for such "absolute" time. But then when one went on sale for twenty dollars back in February, I bought one. It is indeed a neat gadget. It turns out to be a nice portable clock, at the very least, and as cheap as many non-"atomic". But I do find it useful to know that this is the time, and it is still set with the standard. While I still say such clocks have now become common simply because we have clocks everywhere (compared to years ago when there were only a couple in a house), none of which get set to the exact same time and then drift a tad, it is useful to have a standard so one can set the rest of the clocks. Michael I should know... in the past year, I've bought three of those clocks myself. Why? Why not? It's cool to listen to WWV on one of my radios and watch my clocks tick exactly in sync with the radio. It's kind of like my clock make the radio beep. A true gadget freak can NEVER have enough gadgets. |
"lsmyer" wrote I can't imagine anyone really needing a continually synchronizing clock. But need is never a reason not to buy something cool. I should know... in the past year, I've bought three of those clocks myself. Why? Why not? It's cool to listen to WWV on one of my radios and watch my clocks tick exactly in sync with the radio. It's kind of like my clock make the radio beep. A true gadget freak can NEVER have enough gadgets. Syncronization is a requirement for communications systems receiving inputs from multiple sources. Besides the requirement for accuracy in logging, one such syncronized system compares the inputs from several Rescue Coordination Center and coastal station feeds, takes the check-sums with the fewest errors and feeds the best signal back to the whole system, writing the information to all stations. Only when all stations send exact timestamps can the comparators perform correctly. This is how Global Marine Distress Safety System inputs are compared at the Global Station, New Zealand. Microsoft computer clocks are hopelssly innacurate for such connection, and programs such as Dimension 4 (free) update your computer clock as often as you require. Every 15min it makes significant adjustments to mine, running minimized you never know it's there. Download at: http://www.thinkman.com/dimension4/ Best regards, Jack Painter Virginia Beach VA |
"Simon Mason" wrote in message ... Spending hundreds of dollars on a Rolex is a waste of money ;-) Hundreds of dollars would be fine if it were a real Rolex for that money. Usually costs a few thousand for a stainless steel one. Mark. |
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:04:55 +0100, "Simon Mason"
wrote: "dxAce" wrote in message ... What's the problem? Tune in any one of the available frequency and time standards around the world and set your clock. I've never used a 'synchronous clock', seems like a waste of money. Spending hundreds of dollars on a Rolex is a waste of money ;-) snip Where did you find a Rolex for "hundreds of dollars" - everyone I've seen has been "thousands" of dollars. HK |
Mark wrote: "Simon Mason" wrote in message ... Spending hundreds of dollars on a Rolex is a waste of money ;-) Hundreds of dollars would be fine if it were a real Rolex for that money. Usually costs a few thousand for a stainless steel one. Ahhhh... the good 'ol days when I was in the Navy. The ships store often had various Rolex in stock. One could buy a Submariner for around $475 dollars or so. GMT Masters were a bit less as I recall. dxAce |
"dxAce" wrote in message ... Mark wrote: "Simon Mason" wrote in message ... Spending hundreds of dollars on a Rolex is a waste of money ;-) Hundreds of dollars would be fine if it were a real Rolex for that money. Usually costs a few thousand for a stainless steel one. Ahhhh... the good 'ol days when I was in the Navy. The ships store often had various Rolex in stock. One could buy a Submariner for around $475 dollars or so. GMT Masters were a bit less as I recall. Yeah but my Casio Waveceptor is more accurate than any Rolex :-) Simon M. |
"Howard" wrote in message ... On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 15:04:55 +0100, "Simon Mason" wrote: "dxAce" wrote in message ... What's the problem? Tune in any one of the available frequency and time standards around the world and set your clock. I've never used a 'synchronous clock', seems like a waste of money. Spending hundreds of dollars on a Rolex is a waste of money ;-) snip Where did you find a Rolex for "hundreds of dollars" - everyone I've seen has been "thousands" of dollars. It was of the top of my head. Spending 1000s on one is therefore even more of a waste if it's simply an accurate timepiece you want and not the equivalent of a gold painted Rolls Royce. -- Simon M. |
Simon Mason wrote: "dxAce" wrote in message ... Mark wrote: "Simon Mason" wrote in message ... Spending hundreds of dollars on a Rolex is a waste of money ;-) Hundreds of dollars would be fine if it were a real Rolex for that money. Usually costs a few thousand for a stainless steel one. Ahhhh... the good 'ol days when I was in the Navy. The ships store often had various Rolex in stock. One could buy a Submariner for around $475 dollars or so. GMT Masters were a bit less as I recall. Yeah but my Casio Waveceptor is more accurate than any Rolex :-) That may be true, but not everyone can afford a Rolex, that's part of the mystique, and the watch of spies. dxAce |
Simon Mason wrote: "dxAce" wrote in message ... Mark wrote: "Simon Mason" wrote in message ... Spending hundreds of dollars on a Rolex is a waste of money ;-) Hundreds of dollars would be fine if it were a real Rolex for that money. Usually costs a few thousand for a stainless steel one. Ahhhh... the good 'ol days when I was in the Navy. The ships store often had various Rolex in stock. One could buy a Submariner for around $475 dollars or so. GMT Masters were a bit less as I recall. Yeah but my Casio Waveceptor is more accurate than any Rolex :-) Suddenly I got a picture in my head of some guy yelling at his old girlfriend as she hops in the sportscar with the guy wearing the Rolex, " ...yeah, but my Casio Waveceptor is more accurate than any Rolex"... as she waves goodbye. dxAce |
In article , dxAce
wrote: Simon Mason wrote: "dxAce" wrote in message ... Mark wrote: "Simon Mason" wrote in message ... Spending hundreds of dollars on a Rolex is a waste of money ;-) Hundreds of dollars would be fine if it were a real Rolex for that money. Usually costs a few thousand for a stainless steel one. Ahhhh... the good 'ol days when I was in the Navy. The ships store often had various Rolex in stock. One could buy a Submariner for around $475 dollars or so. GMT Masters were a bit less as I recall. Yeah but my Casio Waveceptor is more accurate than any Rolex :-) Suddenly I got a picture in my head of some guy yelling at his old girlfriend as she hops in the sportscar with the guy wearing the Rolex, " ...yeah, but my Casio Waveceptor is more accurate than any Rolex"... as she waves goodbye. Sounds like the guys timing was off. -- Telamon Ventura, California |
"dxAce" wrote in message ... Yeah but my Casio Waveceptor is more accurate than any Rolex :-) Suddenly I got a picture in my head of some guy yelling at his old girlfriend as she hops in the sportscar with the guy wearing the Rolex, " ...yeah, but my Casio Waveceptor is more accurate than any Rolex"... as she waves goodbye. Good riddance to the gold digger, I'd say -going off with another man 'cos he's got a flash watch! -- Simon M. |
Simon Mason wrote:
Good riddance to the gold digger, I'd say -going off with another man 'cos he's got a flash watch! Say no more! The wench I had left me for a man who had *NO* watch! Bahh! Personality, charm, manners and upbringing are **SO** overrated. mike |
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