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"m II" wrote in message news:9ZDjd.75891$E93.50459@clgrps12... David wrote: Wouldn't want to bore you. Here's more. http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/INF307A.html I don't know how anyone proclaiming a love for democracy can put up with this corruption. Easy. We're not as gullible as those who choose to believe it nor are we required by our political predisposition to believe anything that rationalizes losing an election. |
David wrote in message . ..
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm Maybe true, maybe not. But one must remember that the "left" demanded CHANGE after the 2000 mess in FL. I dislike all "paperless" transactions, be they fianancial or election. But the US public demands instant results. And no paper ballat system can ever be fast enough. I remember watching election night as some young woman, identified by a lower third proclaiming her to be a Demonrat, nearly screamed that "this delay is not acceptable". She went on to say; "Surely in the 21st century, in the most advanced(sic) country on this planet, we can do better". Better in this case clearly meant faster. I was concerned about the BIG difference in the outcome and the projections based on exit polling. But whem several news sources mentioned that Demonrats were much more likely to respond then the evil Republicans, and that state laws keeping all 3rd party types (pollers, boosters etc) further away from polling places then in 2000, the difference made sense. Not saying that this or any election is fair. A friend I worked with told us stories about how his father had been a city employee in Lousyville KY and had for years spent election day going from precinct to precinct voting in the name of people who had recently died. I have no proof that he was not telling tale tales, but the tone of the conversation lead me to accept what he said as being true. In his case it was the Demonrats that controlled the election. In 1996, it is generaly accepted that Paul Patton stole the election with his overwealming win in Jeffereson County KY. Lousyville is it's county seat. After a grand jurry handed down indictments against several top Demonrat party officials, and at least one union offical, one indicted lady killed herself. The feds have really been heavy into election fraud in KY and I suspect that she either knew she was going to jail, or someone decided that she would plea bargin and shut her up. The Demonrats used to hand out "walking" money like Saint Nick hading out candy to kids, the difference being it was a very thinly disguised way to buy votes. The feds put and end to that. I am reminded of the big stink in Cook county IL after Nixon lost that election election. It has been too many years, and I was only 9, but several of the major news magazines ran articles on how the dead voted and pusehed the county for a Demonrat win. I am not defending any election fraud and would like to see any and all such actions raised to the level of treason with manditory death for any and everyone who particpates. And I would go so far as to modify the US constitution to mandate "truth serum" to be used in all such cases. If it were up to me it would extend down to people stealing or defacing poltical signs on other peoples property. It might not bring the US any closer togather in political terms, but it would damn sure raise the stakes of the all too typical poliitical "dirty tricks". Like the 6 or 7 vans rented by the Republicans to transport people to vote that had the tires sliced, apparently by the son a Demonrat FL politico. Or the local idiots here in Lexington who stole Bush and Kerry signs. Or the fool in Ohio who was paid with crack to gather voter registrations, and who was so lame as to use fairy tale names. Or the principal at a special ed school who bribed his students to vote with ice cream. And if for no other reasn then I don't trust any electronic system to be tamper proof, I for one hate them and up until 2000 voted by absentee ballot. But KY changed the rules and made most people who had used paper ballots use a special, reserved voting machine. I was told the paper ballots where just "too hard to handle." I argued "no, not too hard to handle, but to hard to falsify". I ****ed the election board off big time. And at that time KY was completly controlled by the Demonrats. (both houses and the Gov where Demonrats and did pretty much as they pleased) I guess we are seeing Darwin in action. Before the party with better access to the registration process had the advantage. But now the smartest party, or the party able to buy the smartest talent will use technology to effect elections. Maybe the right has better (ormore corrupt) programers then the left. Or maybe this election was as fair as any US election has ever been. Terry |
David wrote in message . ..
On 9 Nov 2004 15:14:21 -0800, (Terry) wrote: David wrote in message . .. http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm Maybe true, maybe not. But one must remember that the "left" demanded CHANGE after the 2000 mess in FL. I dislike all "paperless" transactions, be they fianancial or election. But the US public demands instant results. And no paper ballat system can ever be fast enough. Well that's too darn bad. Elections are too important to compromise for the TV networks and the mindless zombies who watch them. While I agree with you, the sheeple and the newsies are really pushing this electronic voting exactly because paper takes "too long". When I point out the risks of a paperless system to my friends on both the left and the right, they all dismiss it as near paranoid ramblings of an overly tired mind. The only people I know who are concerned are programers. They, those on both the left and the right, are very unhappy about the rush to a paperless, rapid count vote. I don't understand the big rush. The new Presisdent doesn't take office until January. And a delay of a week or so is not going to end the republic. But the writing is on the wall, electronic voting systems are in. And I guess they are here to stay. Even in Washington state (or maybe Oregon) the electronic system that they used several years ago was found to be less then secure by it's creator, and the state still went on and used it, after being told of the problems. Maybe if there is a major clitch and one state, or large city losses all their votes, then people might want security, a valid paper trail and be willing to wait a few days for valid results. While I suspect that this election was pretty "clean", it is only a mater of time unitl some smart crook figures a way to spoof the system. Terry we |
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David wrote in message . ..
On 11 Nov 2004 09:12:36 -0800, (Terry) wrote: Even in Washington state (or maybe Oregon) the electronic system that they used several years ago was found to be less then secure by it's creator, and the state still went on and used it, after being told of the problems. Maybe if there is a major clitch and one state, or large city losses all their votes, then people might want security, a valid paper trail and be willing to wait a few days for valid results. While I suspect that this election was pretty "clean", it is only a mater of time unitl some smart crook figures a way to spoof the system. Terry we Oregon is 100% paper ballots and 100% by mail. It seems to work very well. It is insane to use a system that cannot be recounted. A friend sent me this URL: http://www.rense.com/general50/acci.htm I am having some effect locally. Up until now he had insisted there where no problems. While we both agree that rense is not the most balanced place, still, the news is a little unnerving. Terry |
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David wrote in message . ..
On 12 Nov 2004 14:53:29 -0800, (Terry) wrote: David wrote in message . .. Oregon is 100% paper ballots and 100% by mail. It seems to work very well. It is insane to use a system that cannot be recounted. Hom many people voted and how long did it take to count the vote? I am asking because this is an ongoing debate at work, with me taking the anti-technology position that newer isn't always better. There will be a couple days lag because votes postmarked on election day will take time to arrive. So what? Why does everything have to happen so fast? As a guess, modern Americans have come to expect everything to happen "right now". That is one major reason why our foriegn policy will never make sense. Any usefull plan will take too long and the sheeple will loose their attention and move on to the next quick fix. Overweight, simple eat less and exercise. But that takes too long, so along come lyposuction, stomach stapple and bowel bypassing. Kids can't read, simple take the time and energy to have one adult work with one child and find out how that child learns. But that takes too long so the school system, at least here in central Kentucky, jumps from one wild scheme to another and Jophnny still can't read. Even the government seams to be driven by tracking polls. What is TODAYs problem? Remember Somolia? The nightmare had been going on for years before CNN etal started harping on the "starving children" and the evil warlords, the media looked like a shark feeding frenzy. And President Bush(1) sent troups to "protect" the food chain. Instant solution to a long term problem. Only the solution imploded. Almost every problem facing the US or the world lacks a fast solution. And will not be solved. As too the elction result need for speed, I think it is driven in large part by our major media outlets. They harp on this or that delay. And the public assumes that there is some valid need for speed. I suspect that most Presidetnial candidates already have their cabnet choices made well before election night. If for now other reason then to cement their help in the election. I am guesing that a candidate could throw a cabnet togahter in a week or so. The republic survived for years without instant results. But the idiots I work with all thin the world will end unless they can go to bed at 11:00EST without knowing who won. I have never watchted the results. When I was a child my parents treated election night as family night. We would play games, or mom and dad would tell us about their childhood. When I was 10 several of the families in our neighborhood had what might today be called a "block party". I got to (was forced to) dance with several of the girls. As I got older I was kind of shocked to find out the the real world came to a complete halt on election night. Today my wife and I watch movies, enjoy pop corn and play Scrable. In 2004 I heard about the election screwup on the way to work and turned my radio off in disgust. I was certain that Kentucky had messed up. Terry |
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!! On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 11:55:31 +0000, Noel wrote: On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 21:39:20 GMT, JuLiE Dxer wrote: Do you realize you're preaching to ignorant "anti-American" scum Can't practise what you preach, eh? |
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