Need Source of European tubes..
 

Howard Bingham wrote:

I need a reliable source of tubes to restore several Grundig &
Blaupunkt table radios which are missing several tubes.

Take a look at:

http://www.helmut-singer.de/

Regards,

Ralf

--
Vy 73 es 55 de Ralf, DL2MRB
E-Mail:
www.hamradioboard.de

www.sovtek.com

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:18:04 -0600, Howard Bingham
wrote:

I need a reliable source of tubes to restore several Grundig &
Blaupunkt table radios which are missing several tubes.

I also need a tube diagram or schematic diagram of a Blaupunkt Ballet
model # 20003 table radio (Late 50's - early 60's).

Howard Bingham, Houston, Tx.

Howard Bingham wrote:
I need a reliable source of tubes to restore several Grundig &
Blaupunkt table radios which are missing several tubes.

I also need a tube diagram or schematic diagram of a Blaupunkt Ballet
model # 20003 table radio (Late 50's - early 60's).

Howard Bingham, Houston, Tx.

--
All the common European tubes are available
from a number of online vacuum tube dealers.
Do Yahoo search on "vacuum tubes" and snoop
around. As for the schematic, you might
try Walter Groer at
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/6483/

He doesn't have the specific model number you
requested on his Blaupunkt page, but every
Ballett he does have listed uses the same tube
line-up so I'll bet they're all pretty similar.
Of course the chassis layout can be wildly different
from set to set but they're all 5 tube sets so
shouldn't be too hard to figger out. Sams
Photofact also has a Ballett listed. See if one
of your local libraries carries them.

"Howard Bingham" wrote in message
...
I need a reliable source of tubes to restore several Grundig &
Blaupunkt table radios which are missing several tubes.

Nearly all US tube vendors stock European tubes.

Antique Electronics Supply might have the largest stock of old tubes:

http://tubesandmore.com/

You can also do a search for a given tube number and come up with number of
other vendors.

Nearly all European tubes cross over to a US style Radio Manufacturers
Association number. For example, the ECC81 is the 12AT7. You can find
other subs, and much more at:

http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/tubesearch.php



I also need a tube diagram or schematic diagram of a Blaupunkt Ballet
model # 20003 table radio (Late 50's - early 60's).

Howard Bingham, Houston, Tx.

--

Frank Dresser wrote:

Nearly all US tube vendors stock European tubes.

Antique Electronics Supply might have the largest stock of old tubes:

http://tubesandmore.com/

You can also do a search for a given tube number and come up with number of
other vendors.

Nearly all European tubes cross over to a US style Radio Manufacturers
Association number. For example, the ECC81 is the 12AT7. You can find
other subs, and much more at:

http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/tubesearch.php





AES is usually a bit more expensive than
the rest, sometimes as much as 50%. A dealer
I've dealt with only once or twice but seems
to be a very nice guy and has good prices on
tubes is at http://www.radiodaze.com/

Larry

"Larry Ozarow" wrote in message
news:93lqd.853$zK1.500@trndny05...



AES is usually a bit more expensive than
the rest, sometimes as much as 50%. A dealer
I've dealt with only once or twice but seems
to be a very nice guy and has good prices on
tubes is at http://www.radiodaze.com/

Larry

That's a good point. I buy most of my tubes from other sources, but I
usually check with my AES catalog first, just to establish a sort of
baseline.

The best service I've had came from Triode Electronics, but they don't stock
many radio tubes.

http://store.yahoo.com/triodeel/index.html

I've also had excellent results from ESRC, Fair Radio and Brent Jessee
Recording. Actually, the only less than excellent result I've had came from
AES. I ordered some new 6X8 from an AES sales flyer, and it turned out that
a couple of them were obviously used and the box and tube brands didn't
match on one of the used tubes. The used tubes tested weak as well. I
didn't bother complaining, because the price was good, and tubes which test
weak usually work OK.

I got most of my tubes in used bulk lots.

Frank Dresser

Frank Dresser wrote:



That's a good point. I buy most of my tubes from other sources, but I
usually check with my AES catalog first, just to establish a sort of
baseline.

The best service I've had came from Triode Electronics, but they don't stock
many radio tubes.

http://store.yahoo.com/triodeel/index.html

I've also had excellent results from ESRC, Fair Radio and Brent Jessee
Recording. Actually, the only less than excellent result I've had came from
AES. I ordered some new 6X8 from an AES sales flyer, and it turned out that
a couple of them were obviously used and the box and tube brands didn't
match on one of the used tubes. The used tubes tested weak as well. I
didn't bother complaining, because the price was good, and tubes which test
weak usually work OK.

I got most of my tubes in used bulk lots.

Frank Dresser


I've even had some good luck on e-bay. Often the price
of a fair-sized mixed lot will be so low that even if
25% or so are duds, the net cost is still much lower than
the on-line vendors. As long as a tube you want doesn't
overlap with the audiophool market there's a lot of cheap
stuff out there.

Audiophool. Heh, heh. I like it. Anyone want to buy an SWR compensated power
cord? Only $900.00.

"Larry Ozarow" wrote in message
news:ySnqd.199$Xd.121@trndny02...


Frank Dresser wrote:



That's a good point. I buy most of my tubes from other sources, but I
usually check with my AES catalog first, just to establish a sort of
baseline.

The best service I've had came from Triode Electronics, but they don't
stock
many radio tubes.

http://store.yahoo.com/triodeel/index.html

I've also had excellent results from ESRC, Fair Radio and Brent Jessee
Recording. Actually, the only less than excellent result I've had came
from
AES. I ordered some new 6X8 from an AES sales flyer, and it turned out
that
a couple of them were obviously used and the box and tube brands didn't
match on one of the used tubes. The used tubes tested weak as well. I
didn't bother complaining, because the price was good, and tubes which
test
weak usually work OK.

I got most of my tubes in used bulk lots.

Frank Dresser


I've even had some good luck on e-bay. Often the price
of a fair-sized mixed lot will be so low that even if
25% or so are duds, the net cost is still much lower than
the on-line vendors. As long as a tube you want doesn't
overlap with the audiophool market there's a lot of cheap
stuff out there.

"CW" wrote in message
...
Audiophool. Heh, heh. I like it. Anyone want to buy an SWR compensated
power
cord? Only $900.00.


Sorry, I'm not in the market for a SWR compensated power cord. In fact, I'm
selling them. Mine are $1200 each, but the most discriminating ears can
hear the difference.

Don't forget, you get what you pay for!

Frank Dresser

Howard Bingham schrieb:


One question, what are "paper capacitors" & how do they differ from
those found on other radios..? (One of the contacts who aparently
services these old German radios suggested replacing the paper
capacitors before replacing tubes.).



Paper capacitors are made with paper inside as the name implies.
These capacitors tend to dry out and tend to explode sooner or later,
destroying a lot inside the radio. So a replacement with modern parts/
capacitors is highly recommended.

Howard Bingham wrote:

One question, what are "paper capacitors" & how do they differ from
those found on other radios..? (One of the contacts who aparently
services these old German radios suggested replacing the paper
capacitors before replacing tubes.).

Howard Bingham, Houston, Tx.
KE5APJ

Most radios have three basic kinds of caps -
electrolytics, which have large capacitance
values and show up in the power supply and the
audio output, tubulars, which have middling values
and show up all over the place, and small-capacitance
ceramics. Ceramics are usually small plastic disks or lozenge
shaped, and rarely fail. The electrolytics in older
radios are almost always bad and need replacing. Older
radios had tubular caps which used wax-impregnated
paper to separate the foil "plates." The wax-paper degrades
with time and they usually need to be replaced, though
I have seen plenty that are older than your radio that are
still OK. You should definitely replace the electrolytics
and any paper caps that are in the power supply before replacing
any tubes or else you may well have to replace the tubes again
right quick (as the saying goes, "Ask me how I know").

Forgot to mention, the tubulars can be
replaced with modern mylar, polyester or
polypropylene tubulars or
(overkill) orange-drops. AES or radiodaze
or any number of on-line vendors have
them. The yellow poly tubulars are cheap
and reliable and easy to work with.
The capacitance values will not likely be
exactly the same as the originals,
but within 10% or so is fine. Err on the high
side for electolytics.

Another fine source for caps is Dave & Babylyn Cantelon
at www.justradios.com. They also have schematics for
some US, Canadian and European radios, you might ask them
if they have one for your radio.

Howard Bingham wrote:


Thank you for all of the replies, I have contacted several links which
have resulted in some positive feedback as to this restoration project
which started as a rainy day idea to fix up this Blaupunkt radio that
had until this weekend been collecting dust on top of a book case..

One question, what are "paper capacitors" & how do they differ from
those found on other radios..? (One of the contacts who aparently
services these old German radios suggested replacing the paper
capacitors before replacing tubes.).

Howard Bingham, Houston, Tx.
KE5APJ



You'll need to go to this newsgroup:

rec.antiques.radio+phono

I'm sure you can find people who work on old German sets there, and if
this little holiday project is shaping up to be more than you can
handle, maybe you can get one of them to fix it for you.



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Volker Tonn wrote:

Howard Bingham schrieb:

One question, what are "paper capacitors" & how do they differ from
those found on other radios..? (One of the contacts who aparently
services these old German radios suggested replacing the paper
capacitors before replacing tubes.).


Paper capacitors are made with paper inside as the name implies.
These capacitors tend to dry out and tend to explode sooner or later,
destroying a lot inside the radio. So a replacement with modern parts/
capacitors is highly recommended.

It's been my experience that paper capacitors rarely explode. They just
become leaky to DC current and therefore ineffective for their intended
purpose as an AC signal device. Replacing them can protect other
components such as I.F. transformers which can be hard to find for old
tube radios.


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They do explode. They'll fill a large room with little bits of
aluminum foil and wax paper.

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 03:19:03 -0500, starman wrote:

Volker Tonn wrote:

Howard Bingham schrieb:

One question, what are "paper capacitors" & how do they differ from
those found on other radios..? (One of the contacts who aparently
services these old German radios suggested replacing the paper
capacitors before replacing tubes.).


Paper capacitors are made with paper inside as the name implies.
These capacitors tend to dry out and tend to explode sooner or later,
destroying a lot inside the radio. So a replacement with modern parts/
capacitors is highly recommended.

It's been my experience that paper capacitors rarely explode. They just
become leaky to DC current and therefore ineffective for their intended
purpose as an AC signal device. Replacing them can protect other
components such as I.F. transformers which can be hard to find for old
tube radios.


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"Howard Bingham" wrote in message
...

Thank you for all of the replies, I have contacted several links which
have resulted in some positive feedback as to this restoration project
which started as a rainy day idea to fix up this Blaupunkt radio that
had until this weekend been collecting dust on top of a book case..

One question, what are "paper capacitors" & how do they differ from
those found on other radios..? (One of the contacts who aparently
services these old German radios suggested replacing the paper
capacitors before replacing tubes.).

Howard Bingham, Houston, Tx.
KE5APJ


Take a look at the "How can I fix up my old radio?" and "How to replace
capacitors" articles on Phil Nelson's helpful Radio Beginner page:

http://antiqueradio.org/begin.htm

Frank Dresser

In article Q0Pqd.799$8v3.447@trndny08,
Larry Ozarow wrote:
Howard Bingham wrote:

One question, what are "paper capacitors" & how do they differ from
those found on other radios..? (One of the contacts who aparently
services these old German radios suggested replacing the paper
capacitors before replacing tubes.).

Howard Bingham, Houston, Tx.
KE5APJ

Most radios have three basic kinds of caps -
electrolytics, which have large capacitance
values and show up in the power supply and the
audio output, tubulars, which have middling values
and show up all over the place, and small-capacitance
ceramics. Ceramics are usually small plastic disks or lozenge
shaped, and rarely fail.

Older radios will have mica capacitors in place of ceramics, which
became popular in, judging from the stuff I've scrapped over the
years, in the 1950s. They look like little black or dark brown dominos.

Mark Zenier Washington State resident

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 03:19:03 -0500, starman wrote:

Volker Tonn wrote:

Howard Bingham schrieb:

One question, what are "paper capacitors" & how do they differ from
those found on other radios..? (One of the contacts who aparently
services these old German radios suggested replacing the paper
capacitors before replacing tubes.).


Paper capacitors are made with paper inside as the name implies.
These capacitors tend to dry out and tend to explode sooner or later,
destroying a lot inside the radio. So a replacement with modern parts/
capacitors is highly recommended.

It's been my experience that paper capacitors rarely explode. They just
become leaky to DC current and therefore ineffective for their intended
purpose as an AC signal device. Replacing them can protect other
components such as I.F. transformers which can be hard to find for old
tube radios.

David wrote:

They do explode. They'll fill a large room with little bits of
aluminum foil and wax paper.

I used the word 'rarely' for a reason. I have never had an original
waxed paper capacitor explode in any of my boatanchors during the past
30-years. That doesn't mean it never happens. I usually replace them
because most are leaky, especially the infamous 'black beauties'.


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In article ,
Howard Bingham wrote:
There remains only one tube to be found & I have 4 vendors looking for
the US equivilent if not the exact replacement tube. ( ECC85 )

6AQ8, E(xcellent) replacment according to my Rider Receiving Tube
Substituion Guide. (If you had put a list of the numbers in your
first post, you'd know this by now).

Mark Zenier Washington State resident

Mark Zenier wrote:

In article Q0Pqd.799$8v3.447@trndny08,
Larry Ozarow wrote:
Howard Bingham wrote:

One question, what are "paper capacitors" & how do they differ from
those found on other radios..? (One of the contacts who aparently
services these old German radios suggested replacing the paper
capacitors before replacing tubes.).

Howard Bingham, Houston, Tx.
KE5APJ

Most radios have three basic kinds of caps -
electrolytics, which have large capacitance
values and show up in the power supply and the
audio output, tubulars, which have middling values
and show up all over the place, and small-capacitance
ceramics. Ceramics are usually small plastic disks or lozenge
shaped, and rarely fail.

Older radios will have mica capacitors in place of ceramics, which
became popular in, judging from the stuff I've scrapped over the
years, in the 1950s. They look like little black or dark brown dominos.

Those micas are surprisely reliable for their age. I seldom have to
replace one but it's a good idea to check them.


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Mark Zenier wrote:


Older radios will have mica capacitors in place of ceramics, which
became popular in, judging from the stuff I've scrapped over the
years, in the 1950s. They look like little black or dark brown dominos.

Mark Zenier Washington State resident



You are right of course, but the OP's radio is relatively
young in this context. From looking at Groer's website I
assumed this model comes from around 1960.

starman wrote:



Those micas are surprisely reliable for their age. I seldom have to
replace one but it's a good idea to check them.



There were also some paper capacitors camouflaged as micas -
stuck into little domino-shaped plastic cases. I ran across
one that had burst open in some radio whose identity and age
escape me at this point.

Oz

"Howard Bingham" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 00:37:37 GMT, Larry Ozarow
wrote:



Forgot to mention, the tubulars can be
replaced with modern mylar, polyester or
polypropylene tubulars or
(overkill) orange-drops. AES or radiodaze
or any number of on-line vendors have
them. The yellow poly tubulars are cheap
and reliable and easy to work with.
The capacitance values will not likely be
exactly the same as the originals,
but within 10% or so is fine. Err on the high
side for electolytics.

Another fine source for caps is Dave & Babylyn Cantelon
at www.justradios.com. They also have schematics for
some US, Canadian and European radios, you might ask them
if they have one for your radio.
--

A contact in Germany has the complete service manual & schematic that
he is xeroxing for me which should help considerably..

There remains only one tube to be found & I have 4 vendors looking for
the US equivilent if not the exact replacement tube. ( ECC85 )

Howard Bingham

--

"Howard Bingham" wrote in message
...

A contact in Germany has the complete service manual & schematic that
he is xeroxing for me which should help considerably..

There remains only one tube to be found & I have 4 vendors looking for
the US equivilent if not the exact replacement tube. ( ECC85 )

Howard Bingham

--

ECC85? Ouch. $15 at AES, and they're out of stock. As far as I know, the
ECC85 was never used in any American product, but there's plenty of tubes
with similiar bases.

http://hereford.ampr.org/cgi-bin/tube?tube=ECC85

If you can get a chance to rummage through a box of tube pulls, you will
almost certainly find a few 6BQ7s and 6BZ7s. One r the other of these was
used in almost every TV tuner of the late 50s to early 60s. The only worry
is the plate voltage rating on the 6BQ7 and 6BZ7 is lower than the ECC85..
I know I'd try it, but I've got alot of old pulls just sitting in boxes.

I wouldn't buy a new tube that wasn't an exact replacement, but maybe one of
your vendors has a reasonable used sub for about fifty cents or a buck and
can put it in with the order.

Frank Dresser

Frank Dresser wrote:




I'll bet it was a line bypass capacitor! And I'll bet it said "Micamold" on
the side of the case!!

Frank Dresser


Entirely possible Frank. At this point I remember
the component itself but none of the context.
It was bigger of course than a real mica cap.
I've also seen one or two paper tubulars that
exploded when used as line bypass caps.

Now that you mention the name, I seem to
recall a discussion of same a ways back on
the antiques group.

Oz

Frank Dresser wrote:


ECC85? Ouch. $15 at AES, and they're out of stock. As far as I know, the
ECC85 was never used in any American product, but there's plenty of tubes
with similiar bases.

http://hereford.ampr.org/cgi-bin/tube?tube=ECC85

If you can get a chance to rummage through a box of tube pulls, you will
almost certainly find a few 6BQ7s and 6BZ7s. One r the other of these was
used in almost every TV tuner of the late 50s to early 60s. The only worry
is the plate voltage rating on the 6BQ7 and 6BZ7 is lower than the ECC85..
I know I'd try it, but I've got alot of old pulls just sitting in boxes.

I wouldn't buy a new tube that wasn't an exact replacement, but maybe one of
your vendors has a reasonable used sub for about fifty cents or a buck and
can put it in with the order.

Frank Dresser



Most of the vendors list a 6AQ8 as an equivalent and have it for between
$10-20. You think that's bad - I've got a totally mediocre Grundig 4570u
that's waiting until I can find an ELL80 that at least costs less
than the radio did.

"Larry Ozarow" wrote in message
news:8VGrd.8883$_E3.5531@trndny06...



Most of the vendors list a 6AQ8 as an equivalent and have it for between
$10-20. You think that's bad - I've got a totally mediocre Grundig 4570u
that's waiting until I can find an ELL80 that at least costs less
than the radio did.

What I don't like about tubes such as the ECC85/6AQ8 is they're so similar
to existing high volume/low cost tubes such as the 12AT7 or about half a
dozen TV tuner tubes. I can make some guesses as to why there are so many
sort-of tubes out there, but it does get to be a pain for the radio hobbyist
40 years after the manufacturers were playing these games.

I looked up the ELL80. A double audio pentode. I don't think I'd knock
myself out looking for one. I'd be too afraid the replacement tube would
get gassy or something a few months after installation. Maybe there's room
for a couple of 7 pin sockets, and you can wire in a couple of 6AQ5s or
something like that.

Frank Dresser