Portatop with a tuning knob
 

RivaScoot wrote:

Hi,

Since I bought my first shortwave radio (a cheapy Rat Shack) many
moons ago agos, I've become quite used to tuning in stations using a
knob.

What medium-priced portatop -- not el cheapo or super expenso --
receivers allow tuning with a knob?

Thans,

RivaScoot

The best one is the Drake SW8. It's out of production but can be found
on the used market for about $450. It has a handle and can be powered by
internal 'D' batteries in addition to an AC adapter. The later version
(starting with 1996) is the best choice because of the improved sync'
detector.


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"starman" wrote in message
...
RivaScoot wrote:

Hi,

Since I bought my first shortwave radio (a cheapy Rat Shack) many
moons ago agos, I've become quite used to tuning in stations using
a
knob.

What medium-priced portatop -- not el cheapo or super expenso --
receivers allow tuning with a knob?

Thans,

RivaScoot

The best one is the Drake SW8. It's out of production but can be
found
on the used market for about $450. It has a handle and can be
powered by
internal 'D' batteries in addition to an AC adapter. The later
version
(starting with 1996) is the best choice because of the improved
sync'
detector.

The Grundig Satellit 800 also allows tuning with a tuning knob.
The reception circuitry on the inside is the same as the SW8.
Also, the older Grundigs, the Sat 700 and 650, would probably
qualify. I've never listened to them, but I imagine that they've
good audio fidelity.

The Lowe 150 also had a tuning knob.

--Mike L.

RivaScoot wrote:

Hi,

Since I bought my first shortwave radio (a cheapy Rat Shack) many
moons ago agos, I've become quite used to tuning in stations using a
knob.

What medium-priced portatop -- not el cheapo or super expenso --
receivers allow tuning with a knob?

Thans,

RivaScoot

The Palstar R30 is a very compact tabletop that can run on 10 internal AA batteries. People with fat fingers say the buttons are a bit too small or close together, but it's got a reputation as a simple radio that performs quite well. They run $575-$650
depending on if you get one or two Collins brand filters with it.

When I was looking for a better "portable", I looked for a Lowe HF-150 Europa - never found one. The regular HF-150's turn up used reasonably often. The HF-150 has appreciated in value over the last few years.

You might find a used AOR AR7030+ for about $1,000. AOR sold a lead acid battery that could fit inside - I run mine off NIMH RC car battery packs - it's a very nice radio.

Otherwise, I'd go with the post '96 Drake SW8 over the Grundig Satellite 800 in part because the Drake has nice build quality, and in part because the Sat 800 is about the size of an "Urban Assault" boom box. A few years back there was a guy named Phil
who did a funny photo edit of a Sat 800 to show a built in microwave oven. One of the reasons it was funny is the radio is large enough that you could almost believe it.

"Mark S. Holden" wrote in message
...
RivaScoot wrote:

Hi,

Since I bought my first shortwave radio (a cheapy Rat Shack) many
moons ago agos, I've become quite used to tuning in stations using
a
knob.

What medium-priced portatop -- not el cheapo or super expenso --
receivers allow tuning with a knob?

Thans,

RivaScoot

The Palstar R30 is a very compact tabletop that can
run on 10 internal AA batteries. People with fat
fingers say the buttons are a bit too small or close
together, but it's got a reputation as a simple radio
that performs quite well. They run $575-$650
depending on if you get one or two Collins brand
filters with it.

Yeah, I'd forgotten about the Palstar. Good idea.

When I was looking for a better "portable", I looked
for a Lowe HF-150 Europa - never found one. The
regular HF-150's turn up used reasonably often. The
HF-150 has appreciated in value over the last few years.

You might find a used AOR AR7030+ for about $1,000.
AOR sold a lead acid battery that could fit inside - I run
mine off NIMH RC car battery packs - it's a very nice radio.

Otherwise, I'd go with the post '96 Drake SW8 over
the Grundig Satellite 800 in part because the Drake
has nice build quality, and in part because the Sat 800
is about the size of an "Urban Assault" boom box.
A few years back there was a guy named Phil
who did a funny photo edit of a Sat 800 to show
a built in microwave oven. One of the reasons it was
funny is the radio is large enough that you could
almost believe it.

Yeah, I can see a few additions there to the cavernous
Sat 800. Hell, there's enough space inside one to put in
a really nice speaker in there without worrying about
spacing. And that's coming from a guy who's had one
since they first came out.

I recently had my Sat 800 in for a general tuneup, and
when I drove up to Franklin to pick it up, I spoke with
the Drake Service Manager, Bill Frost. Really nice guy.
He told me several things:

a) Drake is doing quite well in it's satellite business,
so it's not going away any time soon. They'd moved
their corporate offices from Miamisburg into the plant
at Franklin a few years back.

b) The R8B is it. There is currently nothing in the works
for a replacement, like an R9.

c) Grundig ("They", as he put it) bought the circuitry
of the SW8 and put it into the Sat 800 with a few mods
of their own. (My own speculation is that it was the
audio circuitry that Grundig tweaked, since the SW8
didn't have separate bass and treble controls, for
instance.) Drake was hoping to do another run of SW8's,
but it just wasn't possible. (He didn't elaborate, so I
can't really fill in the blanks.)

d) A big sign on the front door announced that Drake
no longer has any repair parts for their old amateur
radio equipment. I think it also mentioned a place to
contact, but I can't be sure.

I guess I should have asked about the new Eton
receiver, and whether Grundig used the Sat 800 circuitry
again or whether Drake redesigned the circuitry, but
my daughter wanted to go eat some lunch.

--Mike L.

Those European radios on AM and perhaps FM bands too,don't they have a
difference (maybe I am not saying it right) in the frequencies they use
in some European countries.(perhaps Asia too) For instance 1180 on the
AM band here I can get with all of my radios but unless some or all of
the European radios have one or more switches to switch over to the
proper frequency,then those European radios will not work over here for
picking up American radio frequencies.I apologize if I didn't say what I
am getting at.I guess I am a dummy about some things.
cuhulin

Michael Lawson wrote:
snip

b) The R8B is it. There is currently nothing in the works
for a replacement, like an R9.


I'm sorry to hear this.

I'd love to try a Drake with a DSP based IF.

Michael Lawson wrote:

Yeah, I can see a few additions there to the cavernous
Sat 800. Hell, there's enough space inside one to put in
a really nice speaker in there without worrying about
spacing. And that's coming from a guy who's had one
since they first came out.

Seriously, if I had an '800' I would install an internal AC power supply
so the wall wart adapter wouldn't be needed. There's plenty of room
inside the '800' for this mod'.

BTW- My SW8 now has an internal power supply. I cannibalized the guts of
the wall wart and shoe horned them into the SW8 case near the battery
compartment. It was a tight fit. The main reason I did this was because
the Drake carry bag for the SW8 doesn't have any place for the wall
wart. It was a pain to keep track of it. Now I only have to carry a
power cord in the bag which plugs into the back of the radio.


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Yes.

"RivaScoot" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 11:02:20 -0500, "Michael Lawson"
Does the fact that the Satellit 800 and the SW8 have the same
reception circuitry mean a third-party company makes the internals and
that Grundig and Drake simply slap their name on the product?

I'm probably way off on base about this, but I was just curious.

Thanks,


RivaScoot

RivaScoot wrote:

snip


Does the fact that the Satellit 800 and the SW8 have the same
reception circuitry mean a third-party company makes the internals and
that Grundig and Drake simply slap their name on the product?

I'm probably way off on base about this, but I was just curious.

Thanks,


RivaScoot


Drake designed and built the SW8 in the USA.

Lextronix bought the rights to the electronic design of the SW8, and the
rights to the Grundig name in the USA, they hired Techsun in China to
build them. Presumably modifications to the Drake design were done by
Techsun.

Lextronics is now using the name Eton.

In this case, yes and no. Drake built the SW8 at their plant
in Franklin, OH. Grundig/Eton came along and bought
the design, and contracted out to a third party in China
to manufacture the Sat 800.

That said, Drake refurbished or inspected Sat 800's are
the ones you really want.

--Mike L.


"CW" wrote in message
...
Yes.

"RivaScoot" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 11:02:20 -0500, "Michael Lawson"
Does the fact that the Satellit 800 and the SW8 have the same
reception circuitry mean a third-party company makes the internals
and
that Grundig and Drake simply slap their name on the product?

I'm probably way off on base about this, but I was just curious.

Thanks,


RivaScoot

Mark S. Holden wrote:
Michael Lawson wrote:
snip

b) The R8B is it. There is currently nothing in the works
for a replacement, like an R9.


I'm sorry to hear this.

I'd love to try a Drake with a DSP based IF.

Well, they may not presently have a plan for an R9, but that doesn't
mean it'll never happen. My guess is that sales of the R8B are still
plenty strong. If R8B sales begin to taper off, this might generate
enthusiasm for a successor.

Steve

"Mark S. Holden" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Mark S. Holden wrote:
Michael Lawson wrote:
snip

b) The R8B is it. There is currently nothing in the works
for a replacement, like an R9.


I'm sorry to hear this.

I'd love to try a Drake with a DSP based IF.

Well, they may not presently have a plan for an R9, but that
doesn't
mean it'll never happen. My guess is that sales of the R8B are
still
plenty strong. If R8B sales begin to taper off, this might
generate
enthusiasm for a successor.

Steve

I wonder what "strong sales" are for something like an R8b these
days.

If I were to hazard a guess, it's probably nothing like the
"strong sales" for a Sat 800, some of the Degens and
some of the Sonys. Due to the saturation point, I'd bet
that the strongest sales in the SW business is for the
Grundig 200, the hand crank one. You can find those
everywhere, and people would buy them mainly for the
interest in having an emergency radio, not the SW bands.

This isn't to speak ill of the R8B, but just a recognition that
the market for DXers and harder core broadcast SWLers
is what the R8B is designed for, not the regular SWLers
or casual listeners. A radio like a Sat 800, a SW2 or SW8,
or one of the newer Etons or Degens would be more than
enough for the average listener.

I also wonder what R&D costs would be for a suitable replacement.

Probably pretty steep. If Drake were to stay with SW
long term, they'd probably do design work and sell
it to another company, so that they don't have to give up
the plant space to a new radio.

Ten-tec is the only US company I can think of that's
brought out new models in the last 5 years or so. I imagine
they're spreading some r&d costs across shortwave and
ham product lines.

Ten-tec is also in the professional category as well, which
is essentially radios for things like embassies and whatnot.
I'm sure that they've gotten their money back on the
development costs on their professional offering a long
time ago.

On the bright side, I think products like the Sat 800, and
lower cost chinese portables will help expand the market
for higher end radios.

For a while, the portables helped to drive changes in the
tabletops. The sync, for example, swept through the
tabletop area after the Sony 2010 proved it's effectiveness.
Now, maybe the tabletops will drive the development of
the portables, with the Sat 800 being a smaller cousin of
the R8B and the new Eton E1 being a similar descendent.
It wouldn't surprise me if someone contracted out to
Japan Radio, for instance, to build the circuitry for a
portatop or large portable with DSP filtering, with the
requirement that it be "smart" filtering with a minimum
of human intervention.

--Mike L.

Maybe I am mistaken but weren't the first wind up radios made in Africa
and then they were made in China and of poorer quality too? And those
wind up springs in the Chinese radios do not last as long as the wind up
springs in the African made wind up radios? I think I once read
something about that a few years ago.
cuhulin

Mark S. Holden wrote:

The Palstar R30 is a very compact tabletop that can run on 10 internal AA batteries. People with fat fingers say the buttons are a bit too small or close together, but it's got a reputation as a simple radio that performs quite well. They run $575-$650
depending on if you get one or two Collins brand filters with it.

When I was looking for a better "portable", I looked for a Lowe HF-150 Europa - never found one. The regular HF-150's turn up used reasonably often. The HF-150 has appreciated in value over the last few years.

There've been a couple of discussions of the HF225 lately. That's
also a good candidate for portable operation. There was a battery
pack option that held 8 rechargeable C cells. You probably can't find
the battery pack around anymore (hell, you probably can't find too many
225's for that matter), but you can easily duplicate one with about $5
worth of radioshack battery holders.

You might find a used AOR AR7030+ for about $1,000. AOR sold a lead acid battery that could fit inside - I run mine off NIMH RC car battery packs - it's a very nice radio.

Otherwise, I'd go with the post '96 Drake SW8 over the Grundig Satellite 800 in part because the Drake has nice build quality, and in part because the Sat 800 is about the size of an "Urban Assault" boom box. A few years back there was a guy named Phil
who did a funny photo edit of a Sat 800 to show a built in microwave oven.

One of the reasons it was funny is the radio is large enough that you could almost believe it.

I wonder what the guys on "Pimp My Ride" could do with one.

Oz

I wonder what "strong sales" are for something like an R8b these days.

I also wonder what R&D costs would be for a suitable replacement.

Ten-tec is the only US company I can think of that's brought out new models in the last 5 years or so. I imagine they're spreading some r&d costs across shortwave and ham product lines.

On the bright side, I think products like the Sat 800, and lower cost chinese portables will help expand the market for higher end radios.

Well, I agree that a high end receiver probably isn't going to be a
cash cow, but wasn't this equally true when the R8 and R8A were
introduced? The market for such items has been very small for a long
time. I don't know what explains Drake's interest in high end
receivers unless they just like building them.

Maybe they'll drop out of the market after the R8B runs its course,
but I'd like to see them stick around. Best case scenario: the 800
does so well that Drake figures it can fund the R&D for a new
receiver. If, as I imagine, the Sony SW77 was the 800's primary
competitor, this scenario might not be so far fetched.

Steve

Mark S. Holden wrote:

On the bright side, I think products like the Sat 800,
and lower cost chinese portables will help expand the
market for higher end radios.

I think the opposite. They will kill all the competitors with
extremely low pricing. Once the 'communist' Chinese target an
industry, it's doomed. Go to a store like Home Hardware and try to
find a NON Chinese light fixture.

The Chinese state factories are the biggest threat to a free market
place that there is. It's the human equivalent of the Borg's "You WILL
be assimilated"

The politicians here are too easily bought. They're handing over the
keys to the monopolists in return for a few under the table shekels.
You, the citizen can get screwed for all they care, because 'They got
theirs'.




mike

m II wrote:
Mark S. Holden wrote:

On the bright side, I think products like the Sat 800, and lower cost
chinese portables will help expand the

market for higher end radios.

I think the opposite. They will kill all the competitors with extremely
low pricing. Once the 'communist' Chinese target an industry, it's
doomed. Go to a store like Home Hardware and try to find a NON Chinese
light fixture.

The Chinese state factories are the biggest threat to a free market
place that there is. It's the human equivalent of the Borg's "You WILL
be assimilated"

The politicians here are too easily bought. They're handing over the
keys to the monopolists in return for a few under the table shekels.
You, the citizen can get screwed for all they care, because 'They got
theirs'.




mike

My guess is the mass market chinese radios will help bring more people
into the hobby.

Some of them will be happy with the low cost radios, but some will want
to upgrade to a better radio than they can buy from China. A certain
percentage will end up going for the best they can find.

You can still buy high quality light fixtures. You just need to go to a
specialty store.

"RivaScoot" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 23:46:14 -0500, "Mark S. Holden"
wrote:

RivaScoot wrote:

snip


Does the fact that the Satellit 800 and the SW8 have the same
reception circuitry mean a third-party company makes the
internals and
that Grundig and Drake simply slap their name on the product?

I'm probably way off on base about this, but I was just curious.

Thanks,


RivaScoot


Drake designed and built the SW8 in the USA.

Lextronix bought the rights to the electronic design of the SW8,
and the
rights to the Grundig name in the USA, they hired Techsun in China
to
build them. Presumably modifications to the Drake design were done
by
Techsun.

Lextronics is now using the name Eton.


Got 'cha!

Hehe...it all sounds like a shortwave soap opera. ;)

It's not that bad. Although Drake's past was in the
amateur and shortwave radio hobbies, it's only a
small part of their business today. Commercial
satellite equipment is their moneymaker currently.

Bill Frost told me that if you go to a motel/hotel
that has any sort of "cable", it's probably controlled
on their equipment. He mentioned that they even
signed a recent deal with SBC to provide some equipment.

--Mike L.

A few months ago a guy who owns an auto dealership in Arizona was trying
to set up a dealership to sell Chinese made cars in Arizona and then
expand his dealership for Chinese made cars to other states in
America.Some of those cars was priced as low as about $7,000 and all of
those cars were of such poor quality that they could never legally be
sold in America.Of course we know right now there are American auto name
brand factories in China such as Jeep,Buick and one or two others.I hate
to say it or even think about it but someday perhaps China will take
over selling autos/trucks/vans in America.
cuhulin

I guess you said it for me because that is what I was trying to say
too.Thanks.
cuhulin

.I hate
to say it or even think about it but someday perhaps China will take
over selling autos/trucks/vans in America.
cuhulin


Mercedes Benz is also starting up in China. I beleive they also layed off
German engineers and hired foreign engineers.

Its one thing to say that a new competitor enters with inovative products
that competes with well known proven names such as Sony for example. But to
produce a product that offers no significant technological improvment and is
simply meant to copy and undercut the competition through cheap labour and
by keeping your currency significantly undervalued relative to the Japanese
Yen, well. The end result can only be - there goes the neighborhood.
Excellence in product will no longer be available unless your willing to pay
a fortune. There will only be low end consumer junk or very high end
military/commercial gems.

I only hope that the likes of Icom, Kenwood and JRC can weather the currency
wars and remain in the amateur/swl business.
The Chinese consumers are certainly not buying (can't afford) foreign
products at the current low value of the Yuan .

If the US$ (which the value of the Chinese Yuan is currently pegged to)
continues its decline the Drake R8B will be looking mighty cheap to foreign
buyers. But so will cheap Chinese made radios if the currency peg remains
in place.

It all hinges on the currency exchange and cost of labour - economics.

"tianli" wrote in message
...
.I hate
to say it or even think about it but someday perhaps China will
take
over selling autos/trucks/vans in America.
cuhulin


Mercedes Benz is also starting up in China. I beleive they also
layed off
German engineers and hired foreign engineers.

Benz and the other German carmakers (owned by GM, Ford
or whomever) have enough problems with quality. They
are now the bottom scrapers in the automotive food chain,
as far as auto quality is concerned.

Its one thing to say that a new competitor enters with inovative
products
that competes with well known proven names such as Sony for example.
But to
produce a product that offers no significant technological
improvment and is
simply meant to copy and undercut the competition through cheap
labour and
by keeping your currency significantly undervalued relative to the
Japanese
Yen, well. The end result can only be - there goes the
neighborhood.
Excellence in product will no longer be available unless your
willing to pay
a fortune. There will only be low end consumer junk or very high
end
military/commercial gems.

Just remember that the old transistor radios of the 50s and
60s were the old junk pile stuff, and those companies grew
up to be the big Japanese companies that are here now.
I think that it would be presumptuous of us to guess that
Made in China will always denote crap, when even in our
lifetimes, Made in Japan and Made in Taiwan went from
crap to pretty damn good.

I only hope that the likes of Icom, Kenwood and JRC can weather the
currency
wars and remain in the amateur/swl business.
The Chinese consumers are certainly not buying (can't afford)
foreign
products at the current low value of the Yuan .

If the US$ (which the value of the Chinese Yuan is currently pegged
to)
continues its decline the Drake R8B will be looking mighty cheap to
foreign
buyers. But so will cheap Chinese made radios if the currency peg
remains
in place.

It all hinges on the currency exchange and cost of labour -
economics.

I look at it this way. In the late 80's/early 90's, Japan's
economic might looked like it was going to take over
top dog within 10 years. Then the bubble burst. Same
thing happened to the Asian Tigers of the late 90's.
Nothing has convinced me that China will avoid the
same fate of ups and downs.

--Mike L.

Just remember that the old transistor radios of the 50s and
60s were the old junk pile stuff, and those companies grew
up to be the big Japanese companies that are here now.
I think that it would be presumptuous of us to guess that
Made in China will always denote crap, when even in our
lifetimes, Made in Japan and Made in Taiwan went from
crap to pretty damn good.


Certaily a fine comparison. But the social differences between mainland
Chinese and Taiwan and Japan are quite different. To make a peek into
the future of ones potential you simply have to analyse the society.
Japanese were always known for details and accuracy. Much like Swiss
watch fame. It was only a matter of time before they built up their
production
ability to A1 quality levels. I can't see the same social characteristics
among mainland Chinese in general. On the contrary it is a very deceitful
business world where foreign companies MUST keep a close eye on their
products being produced.


I look at it this way. In the late 80's/early 90's, Japan's
economic might looked like it was going to take over
top dog within 10 years. Then the bubble burst. Same
thing happened to the Asian Tigers of the late 90's.
Nothing has convinced me that China will avoid the
same fate of ups and downs.


I'm not so concerned about who becomes "top dog". What I am
concerned about is that the current top dog line-up are forced to retire
due to economics. Then the engineering and design is lost forever.

If there is a demand then there will always be someone to fill that demand.
The key is what is that "demand" satisfied with and can they afford it?
Making products dirt cheap to appeal to the low end market and to kill
the competition has never furthered engineering and design excellence.
It simply is not economical in the long run.

I don't envision a quality product company like Drake or Sony emerging
from a pure mainland Chinese firm anytime soon. Perhaps partners which each
providing what they are best at producing - I.E. Eton/Grundig+Drake+Tecsun.
But to this day I have not been impressed with Eton or Sangean products.
We shall see if the E1 will be a turning point.

"tianli" wrote in message
...

Just remember that the old transistor radios of the 50s and
60s were the old junk pile stuff, and those companies grew
up to be the big Japanese companies that are here now.
I think that it would be presumptuous of us to guess that
Made in China will always denote crap, when even in our
lifetimes, Made in Japan and Made in Taiwan went from
crap to pretty damn good.


Certaily a fine comparison. But the social differences between
mainland
Chinese and Taiwan and Japan are quite different. To make a peek
into
the future of ones potential you simply have to analyse the society.
Japanese were always known for details and accuracy. Much like
Swiss
watch fame. It was only a matter of time before they built up their
production
ability to A1 quality levels. I can't see the same social
characteristics
among mainland Chinese in general. On the contrary it is a very
deceitful
business world where foreign companies MUST keep a close eye on
their
products being produced.


I look at it this way. In the late 80's/early 90's, Japan's
economic might looked like it was going to take over
top dog within 10 years. Then the bubble burst. Same
thing happened to the Asian Tigers of the late 90's.
Nothing has convinced me that China will avoid the
same fate of ups and downs.


I'm not so concerned about who becomes "top dog". What I am
concerned about is that the current top dog line-up are forced to
retire
due to economics. Then the engineering and design is lost forever.

If there is a demand then there will always be someone to fill that
demand.
The key is what is that "demand" satisfied with and can they afford
it?
Making products dirt cheap to appeal to the low end market and to
kill
the competition has never furthered engineering and design
excellence.
It simply is not economical in the long run.

I don't envision a quality product company like Drake or Sony
emerging
from a pure mainland Chinese firm anytime soon. Perhaps partners
which each
providing what they are best at producing - I.E.
Eton/Grundig+Drake+Tecsun.
But to this day I have not been impressed with Eton or Sangean
products.
We shall see if the E1 will be a turning point.

Sangean isn't Chinese, it's Taiwanese. I still have an
ATS-803a in the form of the Radio Shack Realistic
DX-440, and it does a great job on SSB. One of the
few portables ever to have a tunable BFO (an actual
knob) as well as an adjustable gain control (again, an
actual knob). The 803a also handles outside and external
antennas fairly well without overloading (buying or
building a BCB filter is recommended if you're in the
city and close to a MW antenna, tho). In fact, the only
real limitations it has are that it's audio isn't the greatest
(remedied by an external speaker), and it doesn't have
a sync (only the 2010 did at the time when it first came
out).

Is it a DX-ing wonder like a good tabletop? Hell no,
it's not in that league. But in the league of larger
portables, it was only exceeded in it's day by the
Sony 2010, and I still like it more than most other
portables out there for utility and SSB.

--Mike L.

"Michael Lawson" wrote
Sangean isn't Chinese, it's Taiwanese

Yes, Sangean is a Taiwan based company but like WalMart
all their products are manufactured in mainland China factories.

"tianli" wrote in message
...
"Michael Lawson" wrote
Sangean isn't Chinese, it's Taiwanese

Yes, Sangean is a Taiwan based company but like WalMart
all their products are manufactured in mainland China factories.

Last I heard the 909 is still made in Taiwan.

--Mike L.