I couldn't agree more! The 1/4" nylon rope is the way to go, and the longwire
doesn't have to be tight as a banjo string, to work well. Bring a butane
lighter up on the roof with you, so you can melt the loose ends to keep them
from fraying. I finish the knot work by securing the loose ends to the main
rope with some small black UV resistant cable ties. It neatens it up, and you
won't have to worry about it for years. Good DXing to you, Gary, Illinois,USA.

Excellent idea..
Test different weight / Rope length combinations.. Sounds like fun !!
- ALSO.. have extra weights on the ground tethered to the weight / pully
hookup
for very violent gusts..

- Don't know how it would fare in Ice Storms..



Bungees don't seem to weather well, but will do for the short
term. You may also consider, instead of directly tying it off
at the far end, running the rope through a pulley, with two or
three bricks (or some other suitable weight) to hold tension
on the rope.

I found a 4" pulley for about $5 at the local home-improvement
store that's sold as a laundry-line pulley. Even though it's
plastic (with a metal axle), it's tougher than it looks.

-=jd=-
--
My Current Disposable Email:

(Remove YOUR HAT to reply directly)

"-=jd=-" wrote in message
...
On Tue 04 Jan 2005 10:39:58a, "Michael Lawson"
mtl@[REMOVE-TO-REPLY]
fuse.net wrote in message
:


"-=jd=-" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri 31 Dec 2004 05:29:07p, "RHF"
wrote in message
oups.com:

ML,
.
You can get fancier with a Three to Five Pound (3#-5#) Fish
Weight or an Old Wooden Window Weight instead of a Brick.
.
Buy a Ten Foot (10') Piece of PVC Pipe that the Weight
will just {Fit} "Slide" Up-and-Down in Freely.
.
Stick the PVC Pipe in the Ground about Two Feet (2')
with the rest of the Pipe above Ground.
.
Tie-Off the Weight with the Rope so that it is 'positioned'
Midway {Centered} in the PVC Pipe to Move with the
Dynamic Loading of the Antenna Wire.
.
Insert the Weight into the PVC Pipe.
.
Paint the PVC Pipe if that is what will make the Family
Happy ;-} (o: Out-of-Sight - Out-of-Mind :o)
.
.
iane ~ RHF
.
All are WELCOME at the Shortwave Listener (SWL) "Antenna
Ashram"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw...tenna/message/
502 Some Say: On A Clear Day You Can See Forever.
I BELIEVE: On A Clear Night . . .
You Can Hear Forever and Beyond, The BEYOND !
[ With the an Shortwave Listener "SWL" Antenna of your own
making. ] .
.


I was going to suggest a bucket filled with the necessary
amount of sand - but being at a childrens swing-set, I can
imagine that wouldn't last very long at all...

Ha. Not with my kids. I was originally going to
hang one end off the top of their playset (it would
have given me an extra 20 feet of length), but then
I thought that my son would try to see if he could
hang from the wire. Therefore, I decided to attach a
pressure treated 2x4x8 piece vertically on the rear
of the playset (4 feet attached to the 4x4 support
and 4 feet above the roof of the playset) so that
I could get the antenna wire safely above his
reach.


I *DO* admire your optimism, but if your son is like the vast
majority of
boys... Well, like I said - I do admire your optimism! Remember when
you
were his age? Try not to let him see you chuckle if you have to
admonish
him.

Oh, he has it really bad. I know what I was capable
of (like unlocking a door with three locks and a hook
at the top of the door when I was 2), so I plan
accordingly.

Seriously, "looks" don't make it perform any better. Put it up the
best you
can and, if there's a chance kids might attempt something they saw
in a
Tarzan episode, think "safety". It's better to break off under the
partial
weight of one kid, than the weight of three or four (think about
it).

Hmm. You have a point. My son (who's 3, btw),
climbed out over the top of the slide on the swingset
last summer and hung there by his hands. I was
running out to get him, but I knew I wasn't going
to make it in time. He let go, fell about 6 feet, got
up, and yelled happily, "I did it!!"

Besides, if you are like me, and perhaps some others in here, as
soon as
you get it rigged-up, within a week you'll have "a better idea"...

I'm sure about that. Eventually some of the trees that
I'll be planting in the backyard will be big enough to
hang from them, and I've also been thinking about
trying to "recreate" a good Wellbrook type antenna
without spending $300+ dollars to get a new one.

I'm thinking of modifying the rope to attach to
a rope wraparound thing that you'd find at the
bottom of a flagpole (yes, I can use technical
terms) and reknot it every so often. That'll get
me by until summer, and I'll reevaluate things
again.

--Mike L.


You lost me with all that technical jargon {G}, but you may want to
make
your own cleat with a couple of large nails driven half-way in at
opposite
angles from each other, so they form a wide "V" (Or more
appropriately, a
wide "\ /"). That way you can adjust the width as needed to
accomodate
the loose rope. If you are really brave, after you make that cleat
you
could give the leftover box of nails and a hammer to your son (who
needs
"action figures"!).

Ugh. I can see that having problems. I've gotten
sprayed with paint when my son "helped" me
paint the rails of our screened in porch, and I've
gotten sprayed by Bug-b-Gone by him as well
(accidentally, of course, he thought it was a
water gun).

--Mike L.

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:39:58 -0500, "Michael Lawson"
wrote:

I'm thinking of modifying the rope to attach to
a rope wraparound thing that you'd find at the
bottom of a flagpole (yes, I can use technical
terms) and reknot it every so often.

Cleat.

CW,

The Tensioning Devices also do a good job for Wind
and Ice Loading of the Wire Antenna Element.
..
~ RHF
..

Something else to beware of is plastic at the connectors. I got a
dipole some time back that had each side of the dipole and the connector
attached to a piece of plastic. In about two years the plastic had
cracked, and broken losing one half the dipole. I continued to RECEIVE
ONLY on the half that was left. Now the whole thing is down! I suppose
I'll have to put up another antenna of my own some time in the future.

So how long does it take to change an insulator? Is this a multi day task?

jw
k9rzz

AP.
..
Next time try these types of Wire Antenna Insulators :
..
"Dog Bone" Ceramic - Antenna Wire End Insulators
http://www.wavehunter.com/cerins.htm
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/3250.html
http://www.durhamradio.com/s/custome...at=1749&page=1

These Glazed Ceramic Insulators will hold-up for Years and
Do NOT Fail due to Exposure to Direct UV Sun Light like many
low cost and poor quality plasitcs.
..
Van Gorden "Dog-Bone" End-Insulators
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/2379.html
..
Ceramic "Stain" {Egg} Insulators
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/1868.html
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/2794.html
http://www.durhamradio.com/s/custome...at=1749&page=1

http://www.durhamradio.com/s/custome...at=1749&page=2

These Ceramic "Strain" Insulators have a Compression Strain
feature built into them; and if the Ceramic should fail the
wires are inter-linked to act as a safety back-up.
[ This is my 'choice' for Wire Antenna End Insulators. ]
..
Budwig HQ-2 Antenna End Insulator
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/3412.html
Made of ABS Copolymer, 35% Glass Filled.
They are UV Resistant and Weatherproof.
..
CIN Alpha Delta End Insulators
http://www.durhamradio.com/s/custome...at=1749&page=1

..
Van Gorden HI-Q End-Insulators
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/2873.html
http://www.unadilla.com/endsulators.htm
http://www.durhamradio.com/s/custome...at=1749&page=2

..
Assorted Antenna Wire & Insulators
http://www.surplussales.com/Antennas/Antennas-9.html
http://www.radioworks.com/cinsul.html
..
3 1/2 " Wood Screw Standoffs With Insulators
RadioShack Catalog # 15-853
If you are using 300 Ohm TV type Twin Lead for a Wire Antenna
Element these can work well for direct mounting to a build or
structure.
http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...ct%5Fid=15-853

..
..
WRAPPING THE ANTENNA WIRE THROUGH THE INSULATOR :
Her is the Method / Process that I use to Wrap the Antenna Wire
Through the Eye (Hole) of the Antenna Insulator.
..
Fold over One Foot of Antenna Wire at the End going into the
Eye of the Insulator.
..
Run/Route the Folded-Wire-End through the Eye of the Insulator
leaving about Three Inchs outside / unused Main Antenna Wire exposed.
..
Pass the Folded-Wire-End through the Eye of the Insulator a
Second Time and Snug-it-Up to lay with the Main Antenna Wire.
..
Take the Single Tag-end of the Antenna Wire an place it
Perpendicular (90*) to the Main Antenna Wire.
..
Take the Folded-Wire-End (Two Wires) and the Main Antenna Wire
(One Wire) and TWIST all Three Wires together Counter-Clock-Wise
(CCW) like you are forming a Western Ubion Splice. Do this
until all of the Folded-Wire-End is used up in the Twist.
..
Now take the Single Tag-End Wire (One Wire) and Tightly and
Closely OVER-WRAP it Clock-Wise (CW) Around the Three Twisted Wires.
Do this until all of the Tag-End Wire is used up in the Wrap.
..
RESULT - You have Four Wires (2x2) in the Eye of the Insulator
to Distribute the Force and Ware place on it; and Gives it a
Double Bite. The CCW Twisting of the Three Wires and then CW
Over Wraping of the Single Wire Mechanically LOCK the Four Wires
into a Solid Joint.
..
..
iane ~ RHF
..
All are WELCOME at the Shortwave Listener (SWL) "Antenna Ashram"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
..
Some Say: On A Clear Day You Can See Forever.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw...na/message/502
..
I BELIEVE: On A Clear Night . . .
You Can Hear Forever and Beyond, The BEYOND !
With a Shortwave Listener SWL Antenna of your own making.
"If You Build It {SWL Antenna} You Will Hear Them !"

I just use black UV rated Ty-Wraps.

On 14 Jan 2005 03:08:23 -0800, "RHF"
wrote:

AP.
.
Next time try these types of Wire Antenna Insulators :
.
"Dog Bone" Ceramic - Antenna Wire End Insulators
http://www.wavehunter.com/cerins.htm
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/3250.html
http://www.durhamradio.com/s/custome...at=1749&page=1

These Glazed Ceramic Insulators will hold-up for Years and
Do NOT Fail due to Exposure to Direct UV Sun Light like many
low cost and poor quality plasitcs.
.
Van Gorden "Dog-Bone" End-Insulators
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/2379.html
.
Ceramic "Stain" {Egg} Insulators
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/1868.html
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/2794.html
http://www.durhamradio.com/s/custome...at=1749&page=1

http://www.durhamradio.com/s/custome...at=1749&page=2

These Ceramic "Strain" Insulators have a Compression Strain
feature built into them; and if the Ceramic should fail the
wires are inter-linked to act as a safety back-up.
[ This is my 'choice' for Wire Antenna End Insulators. ]
.
Budwig HQ-2 Antenna End Insulator
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/3412.html
Made of ABS Copolymer, 35% Glass Filled.
They are UV Resistant and Weatherproof.
.
CIN Alpha Delta End Insulators
http://www.durhamradio.com/s/custome...at=1749&page=1

.
Van Gorden HI-Q End-Insulators
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/antsup/2873.html
http://www.unadilla.com/endsulators.htm
http://www.durhamradio.com/s/custome...at=1749&page=2

.
Assorted Antenna Wire & Insulators
http://www.surplussales.com/Antennas/Antennas-9.html
http://www.radioworks.com/cinsul.html
.
3 1/2 " Wood Screw Standoffs With Insulators
RadioShack Catalog # 15-853
If you are using 300 Ohm TV type Twin Lead for a Wire Antenna
Element these can work well for direct mounting to a build or
structure.
http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...ct%5Fid=15-853

.
.
WRAPPING THE ANTENNA WIRE THROUGH THE INSULATOR :
Her is the Method / Process that I use to Wrap the Antenna Wire
Through the Eye (Hole) of the Antenna Insulator.
.
Fold over One Foot of Antenna Wire at the End going into the
Eye of the Insulator.
.
Run/Route the Folded-Wire-End through the Eye of the Insulator
leaving about Three Inchs outside / unused Main Antenna Wire exposed.
.
Pass the Folded-Wire-End through the Eye of the Insulator a
Second Time and Snug-it-Up to lay with the Main Antenna Wire.
.
Take the Single Tag-end of the Antenna Wire an place it
Perpendicular (90*) to the Main Antenna Wire.
.
Take the Folded-Wire-End (Two Wires) and the Main Antenna Wire
(One Wire) and TWIST all Three Wires together Counter-Clock-Wise
(CCW) like you are forming a Western Ubion Splice. Do this
until all of the Folded-Wire-End is used up in the Twist.
.
Now take the Single Tag-End Wire (One Wire) and Tightly and
Closely OVER-WRAP it Clock-Wise (CW) Around the Three Twisted Wires.
Do this until all of the Tag-End Wire is used up in the Wrap.
.
RESULT - You have Four Wires (2x2) in the Eye of the Insulator
to Distribute the Force and Ware place on it; and Gives it a
Double Bite. The CCW Twisting of the Three Wires and then CW
Over Wraping of the Single Wire Mechanically LOCK the Four Wires
into a Solid Joint.
.
.
iane ~ RHF
.
All are WELCOME at the Shortwave Listener (SWL) "Antenna Ashram"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/
.
Some Say: On A Clear Day You Can See Forever.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw...na/message/502
.
I BELIEVE: On A Clear Night . . .
You Can Hear Forever and Beyond, The BEYOND !
With a Shortwave Listener SWL Antenna of your own making.
"If You Build It {SWL Antenna} You Will Hear Them !"
.
.

So please tell me, how many S units improvement will one notice using a high
quality ceramic insulator for shortwave reception, over just tying the wire to
the support rope?

jw
k9rzz

K9RZZ - Sounds like you aleady know the answer.
Care to share it with us ;-)

The general theme of this thread was a Mechanical Failure of 'cheap'
plasitic Antenna Insulators; and better replacements for them.

But as you point out - If you use a quality Plastic 'type' Rope and
"Tie" the Rope and Antenna Wire together - That will work also :o)

Doubling Over (Double Lay) and Twist together about Eight Inches of
the Antenna Wire and a Single Lay of Rope usually works well for a
"Secure and Lasting" Knot between the two pieces.
iane ~ RHF