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Why are so many sw receivers being discontinued?
Hello All,
First Yaesu discontinued the FRG-100 Then Icom discontinued the IC-r75 Then Drake discontinued the R-8B All within the last two years. Two questions: If a person wanted a decent tabletop in the $500-900 range and didn't want the Grundig boom-box model what would he get? Secondly, why are they all being discontinued? Alan |
Alan Dye wrote:
Hello All, First Yaesu discontinued the FRG-100 Then Icom discontinued the IC-r75 Then Drake discontinued the R-8B All within the last two years. Two questions: If a person wanted a decent tabletop in the $500-900 range and didn't want the Grundig boom-box model what would he get? Secondly, why are they all being discontinued? Alan Much of the discussion this week has been about R75. And that discussion began over the observation that the announcement of R75's discontinuation may have been premature. As was the announcement of FRG-100's discontinuation a couple of years ago. Either is a decent receiver. And both fall into your price field. The exit of manufacturers from SW has to do with shrinking customer base for SW hardware. SW is declining in use, people are exiting the hobby for, among other things, satellite radio and internet listening, so there are fewer sets being purchased. |
I don't own an R75,so I don't know.Maybe someday,I will find one at the
Goodwill store or the Salvation Army store or the Rescue Mission store or maybe old man Charlie Mckituen -- (spelling) might have one for sale real cheap.. cuhulin |
On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 04:22:11 GMT, Peter Maus
wrote: The exit of manufacturers from SW has to do with shrinking customer base for SW hardware. SW is declining in use, people are exiting the hobby for, among other things, satellite radio and internet listening, so there are fewer sets being purchased. It ain't just SWBC that's declining. A lot of MilComs are now via satellite. Triple One Upper ain't what she used to be. |
Alan Dye ) writes: Hello All, First Yaesu discontinued the FRG-100 Then Icom discontinued the IC-r75 Then Drake discontinued the R-8B All within the last two years. Two questions: If a person wanted a decent tabletop in the $500-900 range and didn't want the Grundig boom-box model what would he get? Secondly, why are they all being discontinued? Alan You're probably asking the wrong question. THose receivers have been around for some time. One thing that came up with the R8 was that getting parts for it had become problematic, or was about to be so. If they can't get the parts, they can't make the radio. So it's not that those receivers have been discontinued. Your question would be better phrased "why don't these manufacturers make replacements for the discontinued receivers". Michael |
"Peter Maus" wrote in message ... Alan Dye wrote: Hello All, First Yaesu discontinued the FRG-100 Then Icom discontinued the IC-r75 Then Drake discontinued the R-8B All within the last two years. Two questions: If a person wanted a decent tabletop in the $500-900 range and didn't want the Grundig boom-box model what would he get? Secondly, why are they all being discontinued? Alan Much of the discussion this week has been about R75. And that discussion began over the observation that the announcement of R75's discontinuation may have been premature. As was the announcement of FRG-100's discontinuation a couple of years ago. Either is a decent receiver. And both fall into your price field. The exit of manufacturers from SW has to do with shrinking customer base for SW hardware. SW is declining in use, people are exiting the hobby for, among other things, satellite radio and internet listening, so there are fewer sets being purchased. Hi Peter Our society has become so dumbed down by terrible public schools and mass migration of 5th grade educated aliens. So, they don't have the capacity nor the comprehension to be even remotely interested in SW. I know you don't have to be the most intelligent to operate a receiver, but to know about it and be interested in it you must have some decent education and culture. We live in a hip hop, lip syncing, shallow society now. Culture is all but gone. Lucky |
David wrote: On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 04:22:11 GMT, Peter Maus wrote: The exit of manufacturers from SW has to do with shrinking customer base for SW hardware. SW is declining in use, people are exiting the hobby for, among other things, satellite radio and internet listening, so there are fewer sets being purchased. It ain't just SWBC that's declining. A lot of MilComs are now via satellite. Triple One Upper ain't what she used to be. That's weird because I heard lots of traffic on 11175. Steve |
David wrote: On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 04:22:11 GMT, Peter Maus wrote: The exit of manufacturers from SW has to do with shrinking customer base for SW hardware. SW is declining in use, people are exiting the hobby for, among other things, satellite radio and internet listening, so there are fewer sets being purchased. It ain't just SWBC that's declining. A lot of MilComs are now via satellite. Triple One Upper ain't what she used to be. That's weird because I heard lots of traffic on 11175. Steve |
Amen to that!
We live in a hip hop, lip syncing, shallow society now. Culture is all but gone. Lucky |
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Lucky wrote:
Hi Peter Our society has become so dumbed down by terrible public schools and mass migration of 5th grade educated aliens. So, they don't have the capacity nor the comprehension to be even remotely interested in SW. It is so easy to place the blame on the schools. Much of the blame also goes to the parents who don't/won't instill the need for education. People need to take responsibility and not look for the easy scapegoat. Parents have a responsibility to their children. The school system is not a means to escape that responsibility. I know you don't have to be the most intelligent to operate a receiver, but to know about it and be interested in it you must have some decent education and culture. Does that mean some elite requirements to be a shortwave listener. I would t hink that all that is needed is a radio, the knowlege of what might be out ther (to listen to) and the desire to listen. SW radio can be a vehicle to provide some education, however education need not be a requirement. We live in a hip hop, lip syncing, shallow society now. Culture is all but gone. Lucky Enjoy, craigm |
Peter Maus wrote:
The exit of manufacturers from SW has to do with shrinking customer base for SW hardware. SW is declining in use, people are exiting the hobby for, among other things, satellite radio and internet listening, so there are fewer sets being purchased. SW may not be declining in use (or it may be). Degen and Tecsun seem to have found enough of a market for them to produce several new portable radios. Granted, these are near the low end of the market. The problem comes with the supply and demand for higher end receivers. Much of the worldwide listening audience may not be able to afford several hundred dollars for a tabletop receiver. The big market for these receivers may be the US and Europe. There may not be a decline in use of receivers. A good SW receiver will last several years. There have been many good receivers at various price and performance levels produced of many years. Most people may have found a receiver that meets their needs. If so, then there may be little demand for a new receiver. If one has a receiver that meets their needs, there is little incentive to spend big bucks to buy one that can only offer limited improvement over what they already have. The decline that is visible is in the sales of receivers. For the manufacturers, they need to see that there is a market where people will buy a new product. If they don't see a market, it is very hard for them to invest the money to develop and market a new product. The cost to bring a product to market is fairly high and the manufacturer must be able to pay that cost from the sales of the product. I hope some manufacturer will see that there might be demand for a new higher end receiver. That receiver would need something that sets it apart from others on the market and what folks already own. A 'me-too' receiver will not be able to generate much in the way of sales. craigm |
craigm wrote:
Lucky wrote: Hi Peter Our society has become so dumbed down by terrible public schools and mass migration of 5th grade educated aliens. So, they don't have the capacity nor the comprehension to be even remotely interested in SW. It is so easy to place the blame on the schools. Much of the blame also goes to the parents who don't/won't instill the need for education. People need to take responsibility and not look for the easy scapegoat. Parents have a responsibility to their children. The school system is not a means to escape that responsibility. Agreed, but the parents are part of the problem too. All they care about is getting the easy A, getting the kid into Harvard so they can put pressure on the poor professors to hand out A's because that's the only acceptable return on their investment, and then making sure the kid gets an MBA so that he/she can go straight to the top. It's all part of the culture of instant gratification. Getting an actual education has been kicked to the side in favor of getting an easy degree in order to get a high paying job. It's the high paying job that's important, not the actual education. 35 years ago, college students said in surveys that the most important reason for a college education was to become a better person, to broaden one's horizons, and all that "hippie stuff". Today all the kids care about is getting in and out as fast as possible and getting to the corner office as fast as possible, along with the Lexus, the hot secretary, and the mansion. The whole culture has become coarsened, and the only thing that's important is making a lot of money, not becoming a better person. I know you don't have to be the most intelligent to operate a receiver, but to know about it and be interested in it you must have some decent education and culture. Does that mean some elite requirements to be a shortwave listener. I would t hink that all that is needed is a radio, the knowlege of what might be out ther (to listen to) and the desire to listen. SW radio can be a vehicle to provide some education, however education need not be a requirement. SW radio tends to have more intellectual programming than say network TV. In America, the breakout TV hit of the summer is an abomination called "Dancing with the Stars", where washed up celebrities pair off with professional dancers in order to win a multiweek dancing competition. The costumes are titillating and the set looks like it came out of a disco hall. A culture that makes "Dancing with the Stars" a hit is not one that is interested in crackly, fading radio broadcasts on Ethiopian culture and news broadcasts that lack car chases and murders du jour. All of American culture caters to the lowest common denominator, and SW radio tends to set its sights higher. That's why hardly anybody in America listens to SW. People have been dumbed down by many different factors over the past 30 years, and they're simply not interested in SW's highbrow fare. It's a tragedy, and it may yet be the end of us. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
Actually, more than I used to, and by quite a margin.
Steve |
craigm ) writes: Peter Maus wrote: The exit of manufacturers from SW has to do with shrinking customer base for SW hardware. SW is declining in use, people are exiting the hobby for, among other things, satellite radio and internet listening, so there are fewer sets being purchased. SW may not be declining in use (or it may be). Degen and Tecsun seem to have found enough of a market for them to produce several new portable radios. Granted, these are near the low end of the market. The problem comes with the supply and demand for higher end receivers. Much of the worldwide listening audience may not be able to afford several hundred dollars for a tabletop receiver. The big market for these receivers may be the US and Europe. There's always been this split. Hobby types who are more interested in the where rather than the content, and who not only may be interested in great equipment, but that equipment can be an end as much as a means. Then you have the people who are only interested in the content. They emigrated from another country and want to hear news from home, or have an interest in world affairs. The radio is only a means to that end. I'm not sure how the latter group was served decades ago, though there were all those multiband portables you could buy at the neighborhood store. The Big Name shortwave manufacturers were sold in relatively isolated spots, ie ham stores, and while you could get cheap ones the good ones cost a pretty penny. Nowadays, as you point out, there are quite a few shortwave receivers available, and available all over the place. I suspect they tend to be better than the cheap receivers of years gone by. At the very least, they are easier to use. None of that calibration where there is a mark every 500KHz (well, it's sort of closer to the 9 than the 9.5); you get digital readout so you know you are tuned the the right frequency. One might argue that digital tuning, plus availability, has meant more people tune into shortwave, or at lest buy such receivers in order to tune in (though perhaps they don't stick with it after the initial tuning). Of course it's a loss if the relative high end receivers disappear. But they cater to a relatively small market, ie those who can afford such receivers and those who actually want them. Maybe there is a decline in those numbers, so there is no longer enough of a market. But it could also mean that the receivers have priced themselves out of the market, that they can't be manufactured for the limited numbers at a price that will bring in enough buyers. For that matter, the available of decent receivers from Sony and Grundig may impact on those expensive receivers. If once upon a time one could buy an S-38 or an HRO, the performance level is pretty black and white. But if you can get a fairly decent receiver for $300, like a Yaught Boy 400 or the Sony 7600, it may be good enough for far more people than that S-38. And that may cut into the pool of buyers for the R-75 or the Drake. Michael |
Michael Black wrote:
craigm ) writes: Peter Maus wrote: The exit of manufacturers from SW has to do with shrinking customer base for SW hardware. SW is declining in use, people are exiting the hobby for, among other things, satellite radio and internet listening, so there are fewer sets being purchased. SW may not be declining in use (or it may be). Degen and Tecsun seem to have found enough of a market for them to produce several new portable radios. Granted, these are near the low end of the market. The problem comes with the supply and demand for higher end receivers. Much of the worldwide listening audience may not be able to afford several hundred dollars for a tabletop receiver. The big market for these receivers may be the US and Europe. There's always been this split. Hobby types who are more interested in the where rather than the content, and who not only may be interested in great equipment, but that equipment can be an end as much as a means. Then you have the people who are only interested in the content. They emigrated from another country and want to hear news from home, or have an interest in world affairs. The radio is only a means to that end. The former group seems to be shrinking. Passport has said that most SW listeners listen to just a handful of favorite stations. I'm not sure how the latter group was served decades ago, though there were all those multiband portables you could buy at the neighborhood store. The Big Name shortwave manufacturers were sold in relatively isolated spots, ie ham stores, and while you could get cheap ones the good ones cost a pretty penny. Well, back in the 1930s, a six tube table radio (portables were rare because of the tremendous power demand of the tubes, requiring 90 volt batteries in some cases) that cost a modest amount usually had a SW band, usually 3-12 Mc (cycles back then) or something similar. The cheapest radios only had mediumwave AM, usually called BC, but the next step up in price range usually had a SW band. Console radios, which were big, 5 foot high radios with over 10 tubes that sat on the floor and which were practically furniture, usually had several SW bands, covering from 1700-1800 or so kc to 25-30 or so Mc. Shortwave listening was quite popular during World War 2, and sophisticated propaganda stations were operated by both sides. Even in Nazi Germany console radios usually had a couple SW bands from what I understand. The kicker is, few Germans could afford them. When transistors came on the scene the familiar multiband portables were built, including the Transoceanic, the World Monitor, and the Japanese brands. They were heavy, had poor dial calibration, and had other technical issues, but it didn't take much to tune in the blowtorch stations operated by the Communists, and that was the main attraction. Nobody ever admitted to listening to Radio Moscow of course, but it did have listeners in the West, usually interested in the amusement factor and the chance to hear the Cold War being fought live over the air. During this period the big name SW radios were mostly for hams. Nowadays, as you point out, there are quite a few shortwave receivers available, and available all over the place. I suspect they tend to be better than the cheap receivers of years gone by. At the very least, they are easier to use. None of that calibration where there is a mark every 500KHz (well, it's sort of closer to the 9 than the 9.5); you get digital readout so you know you are tuned the the right frequency. One might argue that digital tuning, plus availability, has meant more people tune into shortwave, or at lest buy such receivers in order to tune in (though perhaps they don't stick with it after the initial tuning). Compared with the big multiband portables of the 60s, today's radios are well built, incredibly accurate, and have more features. They're also smaller and lighter-not to mention cheaper. A TO cost several hundred dollars, a pretty penny back then. Today's Degens and Tecsuns can be had for $50 over Ebay, and a Degen 1102 is better in almost every way than the TO. Of course it's a loss if the relative high end receivers disappear. But they cater to a relatively small market, ie those who can afford such receivers and those who actually want them. Maybe there is a decline in those numbers, so there is no longer enough of a market. But it could also mean that the receivers have priced themselves out of the market, that they can't be manufactured for the limited numbers at a price that will bring in enough buyers. For that matter, the available of decent receivers from Sony and Grundig may impact on those expensive receivers. If once upon a time one could buy an S-38 or an HRO, the performance level is pretty black and white. But if you can get a fairly decent receiver for $300, like a Yaught Boy 400 or the Sony 7600, it may be good enough for far more people than that S-38. And that may cut into the pool of buyers for the R-75 or the Drake. I really think that the market for tabletops is saturated. There's simply no more demand for them. In a world where a $50 radio will easily pull in the 4 or 5 stations you listen to regularly, there's little need for a $1800 radio whose main attraction is its ability to ferret out weak signals, a vocation 95% of SW listeners simply aren't interested in. The few who are interested in DXing have a deep pool of used tabletops to choose from. The rest have cheap, well built Chinese portables to buy, and for them, that's all they really need. Tastes change, technology marches on, and the old becomes obsolete. Tabletops are, for the most part, obsolete. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
running dogg wrote:
Tabletops are, for the most part, obsolete. I would disagree with that. There are many features on tabletop radios that will probably never be found in portables. Many of the folks in this group use tabletop radios. There is nothing that acts as a replacement for the tabletop radio. (Except, maybe the PC based radio.) craigm |
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David wrote: On 16 Jul 2005 14:05:20 -0700, wrote: Actually, more than I used to, and by quite a margin. Steve 15 years ago it was EAMs constantly, several REACH missions simultaneously, AF1 and 2, Generals ordering limos and T-times, personal HF phone patches, etc. A lot of that stuff is digital via Iridium or other satellites nows a daze. Seems as though you're not listening enough! dxAce Michigan USA |
"craigm" wrote in message It is so easy to place the blame on the schools. Much of the blame also goes to the parents who don't/won't instill the need for education. People need to take responsibility and not look for the easy scapegoat. Parents have a responsibility to their children. The school system is not a means to escape that responsibility. I agree craig. In my home it's mandatory to have good grades and do well in school. Yes it's hard finding the energy to help three kids with their homework and attend their school functions after working all day but it's my responsibility to make sure they get a good education. My parents didn't get involved in my schooling and when I got in high school my grades suffered because I screwed off and it cost me a architectural career. It took me years to catch up in order to make a good living but I'll still never be an architect :( B.H. |
15 years ago it was EAMs constantly, several REACH missions
simultaneously, AF1 and 2, Generals ordering limos and T-times, personal HF phone patches, etc. I think people just have a tendency to romanticize the past. Steve |
"Alan Dye" wrote in message m... Hello All, First Yaesu discontinued the FRG-100 Then Icom discontinued the IC-r75 Then Drake discontinued the R-8B All within the last two years. Two questions: If a person wanted a decent tabletop in the $500-900 range and didn't want the Grundig boom-box model what would he get? Secondly, why are they all being discontinued? Alan (Copied from a preious responce of mine on another thread, but on target here) For the most part, listeners in third world countries tune in to get news and information. They aren't into it for any "hobby" appeal. They just want the info that they couldn't get otherwise. It would go to reason that third world listeners wouldn't be in the market for rigs like the R8b, IC-R75 or NRD-545. They would be well served with a capable and economical portable like the ones being churned out in China by Degen. As far as most of the western/modern world is concerned, with internet and satellite communications widely available, sw listening for content is a second string medium. It is less reliable and it is always of a lesser quality as far as the clarity of the transmission. It is true, however unlikely that the internet could go down and satellite com could be interrupted for any one of a number of reasons. If that does occur, you can count on it coming back up in a fairly short time. Not to mention, solar occurrences that are intense enough to wipe out satellite communications would also wipe out hf propagation. So, for getting information of all kinds, you dont have to worry about needing a pricy tabletop sw rig. It isn't 1920-1980 any longer. For the most part, the only ones left in the western/modern world who want an expensive sw tabletop rigs are hobbyists like us. So, I can see why fewer and fewer manufacturers are sticking with making tabletop sw radios. Michael |
"running dogg" wrote in message ... craigm wrote: Lucky wrote: Hi Peter Our society has become so dumbed down by terrible public schools and mass migration of 5th grade educated aliens. So, they don't have the capacity nor the comprehension to be even remotely interested in SW. It is so easy to place the blame on the schools. Much of the blame also goes to the parents who don't/won't instill the need for education. People need to take responsibility and not look for the easy scapegoat. Parents have a responsibility to their children. The school system is not a means to escape that responsibility. Agreed, but the parents are part of the problem too. All they care about is getting the easy A, getting the kid into Harvard so they can put pressure on the poor professors to hand out A's because that's the only acceptable return on their investment, and then making sure the kid gets an MBA so that he/she can go straight to the top. I've been employed at three companies over the past 10 years, and what I've seen is that companies are less willing to hire grads right out of college without some internship time (aka co-op time) first. The reasons for this are numerous, but two big ones a -Grades aren't worth much in the real world, especially with grade inflation. -Whether the person can do the work is not necessarily reflected by the college experience. The teams I've been on in the past have been burned in by new grads coming in, expecting the world, and then finding out that they actually are expected to work. 5 out of 6 grads then get jaded and leave because "they don't pay me enough for what I do." Usually by the time they leave, they are enough of a drag on the team that we're happily showing them the door. It's all part of the culture of instant gratification. Getting an actual education has been kicked to the side in favor of getting an easy degree in order to get a high paying job. It's the high paying job that's important, not the actual education. 35 years ago, college students said in surveys that the most important reason for a college education was to become a better person, to broaden one's horizons, and all that "hippie stuff". Today all the kids care about is getting in and out as fast as possible and getting to the corner office as fast as possible, along with the Lexus, the hot secretary, and the mansion. The whole culture has become coarsened, and the only thing that's important is making a lot of money, not becoming a better person. I'm a big believer that your first job out of college should teach you humility, so that you can appreciate where you came from when you land a better job. I know you don't have to be the most intelligent to operate a receiver, but to know about it and be interested in it you must have some decent education and culture. Does that mean some elite requirements to be a shortwave listener. I would t hink that all that is needed is a radio, the knowlege of what might be out ther (to listen to) and the desire to listen. SW radio can be a vehicle to provide some education, however education need not be a requirement. SW radio tends to have more intellectual programming than say network TV. In America, the breakout TV hit of the summer is an abomination called "Dancing with the Stars", where washed up celebrities pair off with professional dancers in order to win a multiweek dancing competition. The costumes are titillating and the set looks like it came out of a disco hall. I've seen some ballroom dancing events (my sister-in-law used to compete), and that's pretty much what they typically wear in those events. Not to defend a show that I've never seen, but the fact that a wide demographic tuned in to watch it is actually an anomaly these days, especially where the old "family hour" on television is about as dead as a doorknob. A culture that makes "Dancing with the Stars" a hit is not one that is interested in crackly, fading radio broadcasts on Ethiopian culture and news broadcasts that lack car chases and murders du jour. All of American culture caters to the lowest common denominator, and SW radio tends to set its sights higher. That's why hardly anybody in America listens to SW. People have been dumbed down by many different factors over the past 30 years, and they're simply not interested in SW's highbrow fare. It's a tragedy, and it may yet be the end of us. It all has to do with what is desired. There are so many choices out there these days for entertainment and information that it's hard for one medium and one thing to stand above all the others and attract your attention, particularly a "low tech" medium like SW. What goes around, comes around. Who'd have thought that swing and jump band music would have made a comeback in the 90's?? Or Celtic music in the 90's?? Stranger things have happened. --Mike L. |
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m II wrote: wrote: I think people just have a tendency to romanticize the past. Well..We never would have said such a broad, over generalized and sweeping statement in MY day... mike Really? Well, when I was a kid, I'd occasionally take a break from listening to generals ordering limos on 11175 to make statements that were much broader and much more general than the one above. And the chicks loved it! Steve |
Alan Dye wrote: Hello All, First Yaesu discontinued the FRG-100 Then Icom discontinued the IC-r75 Then Drake discontinued the R-8B All within the last two years. Two questions: If a person wanted a decent tabletop in the $500-900 range and didn't want the Grundig boom-box model what would he get? Well, given the limited number of new radios being offered I would look for a good used receiver from Kenwood, Yaesu or Icom. Secondly, why are they all being discontinued? Manufacturers of shortwave radios are dropping out of the market for one reason: Far fewer people are buying shortwave radios than were 15 or more years ago. Casual listeners and hobbyists are dropping out of the hobby because there are many other ways to get information about the world that are far more stable: Cable TV, satellite TV, internet news, CNN, internet radio "broadcasts", etc. International broadcasters are moving from the shortwave spectrum to internet and satellite broadcasts because they can reach a wider audience and reduce costs. |
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m II wrote: wrote: Really? Well, when I was a kid, I'd occasionally take a break from listening to generals ordering limos on 11175 to make statements that were much broader and much more general than the one above. And the chicks loved it! Steve Well, we did have just a bit more hair....the food was better, the air was sweeter,. the water was like wine and dxAce had friends. And you were still languishing in CanaDuh... it's sucked to be you for a very long time, hasn't it? dxAce Michigan USA |
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