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grounding and surge
Greetings all. As of late we've been getting some incredible thunderstorms
with enough hits to think it's a war. Anyway some of my equipment has suffered and I'm looking for ideas to better protect everything in my house. Is a whole house surge protector the answer? Do I have to wrap the house in a metal grid? Any help or ideas would help. Everything is properly grounded just to start. I haven't had a direct hit but close enough.... Thanks for any input. |
There are four main entry points for ligthning.
Radio antennas AC main power Telco CATV/Satellite http://www.polyphaser.com/ppc_ptd_home.aspx Is a good place to start. Good protection won't be cheap. And according to some who live in FL, the strikes there are intense enough to defeat even good protection. I have survived on direct strick that vaporised coax and antenna, and several near by strikes that took out nearby trees with no damage. Good protection will also require a good, low resistance ground. Not a casual project. Terry |
I use a Brickwall surge filter,model 8R15 www.pricewheeler.com
www.brickwall.com For my computer,I use an APC model 1000 battery back up. www.apc.com Your phone company can add a lightning strike protector where your phone line enters your home or building,there might be a monthly charge added to your phone bill for that. cuhulin |
On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:22:01 GMT, "finalquest"
wrote: Greetings all. As of late we've been getting some incredible thunderstorms with enough hits to think it's a war. Anyway some of my equipment has suffered and I'm looking for ideas to better protect everything in my house. Is a whole house surge protector the answer? Do I have to wrap the house in a metal grid? Any help or ideas would help. Everything is properly grounded just to start. I haven't had a direct hit but close enough.... Thanks for any input. Move to the desert. |
Hello.
I have whole-house protection as well as individual surge protectors and/or UPS units on each and every one of my electronic components. These certainly offer adequate protection except, of course, against a direct lightning strike such as a "bolt from the blue," for which there is no advance warning. (My antennas are all indoor types; my main antenna, a Wellbrook ALA330S, is mounted in my attic. So these antennas do not have to be physically disconnected from my radios during a storm as it is imperative to do with outdoor ones.) Even so, when my equipment is not in actual use, everything is unplugged (including the power supply to the Wellbrook antenna). I have written about this, and its importance, before. While it may seem a "pain" to unplug all the time, believe me, you soon get used to it and the peace-of-mind it affords makes it well-worth the small effort required. Best, Joe |
I'd like to thank everybody for the help..... I won't be moving to the
desert though. After speaking with the local electric utility I'm going for the whole house surge protector with smaller plug in units for all electronics. The APC units are under consideration. Thanks ! "finalquest" wrote in message ink.net... Greetings all. As of late we've been getting some incredible thunderstorms with enough hits to think it's a war. Anyway some of my equipment has suffered and I'm looking for ideas to better protect everything in my house. Is a whole house surge protector the answer? Do I have to wrap the house in a metal grid? Any help or ideas would help. Everything is properly grounded just to start. I haven't had a direct hit but close enough.... Thanks for any input. |
www.lightningstorm.com A few years ago I saw a science or discovery
tv program that said lightning starts at the bottom and travels up. cuhulin |
cuhulin:
absolutely, with ultra-high-speed-cams you can actually see it... John wrote in message ... www.lightningstorm.com A few years ago I saw a science or discovery tv program that said lightning starts at the bottom and travels up. cuhulin |
On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 17:59:42 -0700, "John Smith"
wrote: cuhulin: absolutely, with ultra-high-speed-cams you can actually see it... John wrote in message ... www.lightningstorm.com A few years ago I saw a science or discovery tv program that said lightning starts at the bottom and travels up. cuhulin There's a strike in each direction, no? |
w_tom - I do believe you make a very valid and important point. After
reading up on it a bit, one point grounding is one of the most important things that need to be checked. As you mentioned the cheaper surge protectors need that good ground to work properly. I'm still researching this and have to agree at this point, the best protection is to disconnect everything but there are times that's not practical. Once again, THANKS to everybody that's helping out. "w_tom" wrote in message ... I believe you have completely missed the point made by . Somehow you think a surge protector is surge protection. During the surge, a wire or a surge protector does the same thing. And both are only as effective as the earth ground they connect to. Even the world's best 'whole house' protectors is no better than a plug-in protectors without the most critical component in a surge protection 'system'. Single point earth ground defines the quality of that protection. Why is a 'whole house' protector effective? If it makes a short connection to earth, then the protector is doing as Ben Franklin demonstrated in 1752. What do plug-in protectors (especially APC) forget to mention to sell their grossly overpriced and undersized protectors? Earth ground. What did define when he was discussing effective protection? Earth ground. What did the utility customer service rep (who probably has no experience with what another division of the utility deals with often) not mention? Earthing. Take the money mostly wasted on plug-in protectors to address the one component required in every protection system - earth ground. First and foremost, every incoming utility must make a connection to the same earthing point when entering a building. This connection is either using a direct hardwired connection (ie CATV, satellite dish) or via a 'whole house' protectors (AC electric and telephone). The telco already installs a 'whole house' protector for free. How effective is it? What kind of earth ground did you provide for the telco to connect to? Notice CATV has no protector nor is a protector needed. A connection to earth ground is via a hard wire. No protector required because that wire does the same function. This figure from the NIST demonstrates why improperly earthed incoming utilities result in fax machine damage. Even the protectors are not effective. Why? Earthing defines protection (or in this case, lack of protection): http://www.epri-peac.com/tutorials/sol01tut.html A surge protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Earthing (not a protector) is the protection. Those who promote the protector instead of earth ground clearly don't know why or what makes protectors effective. Better spent money is on the earthing system; not on undersized, overpriced, and ineffective plug-in protectors. finalquest wrote: I'd like to thank everybody for the help..... I won't be moving to the desert though. After speaking with the local electric utility I'm going for the whole house surge protector with smaller plug in units for all electronics. The APC units are under consideration. |
A previous discussion between engineers about earthing was
in two discussions in the newsgroup misc.rural entitled: Storm and Lightning damage in the country 28 Jul 2002 Lightning Nightmares!! 10 Aug 2002 http://tinyurl.com/ghgv and http://tinyurl.com/ghgm If your building does not, at minimum, meet post 1990 National Electrical Code (NEC) requirements, then sufficient earthing may exist. Connection to cold water pipe is no longer sufficient to earth for human safety reasons. Earthing for transistor safety typically exceeds what the NEC requires. Distance to that earth ground is critical. Plug-in 'shunt mode' protectors are too far from earth ground; not sufficiently earthed to provide secondary protection. Therefore those ineffective (and so grossly undersized) protectors avoid all discussion about earthing. Earthing a building is for secondary protection. Also inspect earthing for your primary protection: http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html Ham radio operators would disconnect the antenna, place the antenna lead inside a mason jar, and still suffer damage. Disconnecting alone was not sufficient protection. Damage stopped when the antenna lead was earthed. Do as Ben Franklin demonstrated in 1752. Give the surge a non-destructive path to earth. Lightning rods and 'whole house' protector; both do same. Earth before lightning can enter a building. finalquest wrote: w_tom - I do believe you make a very valid and important point. After reading up on it a bit, one point grounding is one of the most important things that need to be checked. As you mentioned the cheaper surge protectors need that good ground to work properly. I'm still researching this and have to agree at this point, the best protection is to disconnect everything but there are times that's not practical. Once again, THANKS to everybody that's helping out. |
tvtower.fpl.html That guy sure got that right about Bell South,and how!
Last year,starting the first night of November on through about half of December,my phone line would quit working every single time it rained here and by the time I got my phone line repaired,it had rained over fourteen seperate times here.I phoned them two times and still didn't get my outside phone line repaired.I phoned them a third time and a Bell South repairman guy disconnected a wire inside my phone box inside my carport.My house has a crawlspace under it high enough I can sit up under there and my own phone wires are always dry under there where they are fastened to the floor rafters/boards.It never rains on that box which is mounted about three feet high on a wooden baseboard above the concrete foundation of my house,the phone box is always high and dry.The wire he disconnected is a wire from their end of the phone wires up there on that pole at the end of my driveway by the road.Bell South,(RIPP OFF! Bell South!) wanted to charge me $101.50 for something that had nothing to do at all with the phone wires from my end of my phone line wires to their phone box.You have to always be on your toes and watch out! about those utility Crooks! cuhulin |
Ham radio operators would disconnect the antenna, place the
antenna lead inside a mason jar, and still suffer damage. Only dumbass hams, and some CBers did that stunt. About a stupid trick...Like a little glass bottle is going to stunt a strike that traveled a few miles in *air* to get there... When I ground out my feedlines, it's to a good ground, and is totally outside. When I take a strike, or even a close non direct strike, you can hear those feed to ground connections arc, even though they are connected by so-239's/pl-259's. I've never had any trouble using that method, and I've had two direct strikes to my mast in the last 4-5 years. My mast directs most of the energy to ground, but you still have some current on the lines that needs to be cleaned up. You sure don't want to run it into the house... :( If the coax is elevated, and not snubbed to ground at any point, the strike potential at the end of the feedline will be *HUGE*. Disaster city... That much potential can travel halfway across a house looking for ground. Usually will seek plumbing, toilets, etc. I've heard of toilets being blown to bits in a case like that. MK |
Welll.....Sorta... To me, it's almost in both directions at the same
time it's so quick. I guess you could consider the streamer as the first part of the strike, but you need a down leader to complete the strike. The downleader connects with the streamer, and you have a strike, which can pulse more than once. If you have a streamer, and no leaders find it, you ain't gonna have a strike. So it takes both ends to make a strike. Saying it starts at the bottom is semi misleading, to me anyway...It really goes both ways, and they meet in the middle to complete a strike. Or thats the way I see it... But, the streamer does form first of the two, so I guess that would make it seem to start at the bottom... MK |
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finalquest wrote:
w_tom - I do believe you make a very valid and important point. After reading up on it a bit, one point grounding is one of the most important things that need to be checked. As you mentioned the cheaper surge protectors need that good ground to work properly. I'm still researching this and have to agree at this point, the best protection is to disconnect everything but there are times that's not practical. Once again, THANKS to everybody that's helping out. Indeed w_tom makes the best point about protection -- only a single point ground for ALL points in a system in which all are tied together and utilize a single point for a collective ground is effective. Damage is (and will) be done if there is ANY means for a potential to vary in a system. In other words, ALL points must rise and fall at the same time. Current flows when there is a difference in two points in a system. My radio tower is 65' high and located in west central Florida, aka Lightning Capital of the US. After a strike to the foundation of my home 3 years ago, which literally blew ceramic tiles off the concrete slab and turned them to shattered glass shards, and blew a 3 inch deep, 2 inch wide chasm some 5 feet long into the concrete, I undertook to make certain I was safer. The strike did not hit my tower...it actually struck the telephone equipment point 90 away in the front of my home. The measures I took are on my web page: http://www.knology.net/~res0958z/ Bill KC9CS |
"m II" wrote in message news:HpgIe.126039$wr.91437@clgrps12... magnetic mike II AKA the "Man of Steel"? |
Nice web page you have there,very informative too.
cuhulin |
Honus wrote:
magnetic mike II AKA the "Man of Steel"? Nah..more like 'Ferrous Beuller' on one of his days off. I can easily leap over loose change lying on the floor. mike |
Regardless,I am still right,basically. www.devilfinder.com What
kind of metal are water meters made of? And water companies probally wouldn't appreciate grounding wires attatched to their water meters.If you are going to ground to a water pipe,it is best to ground to the pipe on the street side of the water meter.If you live in an apartment,you probally can't.Even when I am wrong,I am right. cuhulin |
"m II" wrote in message news:qZgIe.126045$wr.32502@clgrps12... Honus wrote: magnetic mike II AKA the "Man of Steel"? Nah..more like 'Ferrous Beuller' on one of his days off. Alright, I admit it...I laughed out loud. |
"B. Otten" wrote in message
... finalquest wrote: w_tom - I do believe you make a very valid and important point. After reading up on it a bit, one point grounding is one of the most important things that need to be checked. As you mentioned the cheaper surge protectors need that good ground to work properly. I'm still researching this and have to agree at this point, the best protection is to disconnect everything but there are times that's not practical. Once again, THANKS to everybody that's helping out. Indeed w_tom makes the best point about protection -- only a single point ground for ALL points in a system in which all are tied together and utilize a single point for a collective ground is effective. Damage is (and will) be done if there is ANY means for a potential to vary in a system. In other words, ALL points must rise and fall at the same time. Current flows when there is a difference in two points in a system. My radio tower is 65' high and located in west central Florida, aka Lightning Capital of the US. After a strike to the foundation of my home 3 years ago, which literally blew ceramic tiles off the concrete slab and turned them to shattered glass shards, and blew a 3 inch deep, 2 inch wide chasm some 5 feet long into the concrete, I undertook to make certain I was safer. The strike did not hit my tower...it actually struck the telephone equipment point 90 away in the front of my home. The measures I took are on my web page: http://www.knology.net/~res0958z/ Bill KC9CS Awesome work, Bill. Minor quibble about the terminology - "single point ground". Your diagram looks like a multi-point ground system in a star-star and daisy chain. I agree with the objective of trying to minimise the potential difference across the area being protected and that implies good conductivity into the earth for enormous currents. That is accomplished by providing lots of contact with the soil and the soil should be deep and wide and conductive. Instead of ground rods, I recall seeing some Australian research decades ago into the use of wire mesh and radials. Rocks, desert and permafrost present special problems. Tom |
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