RadioBanter - We are acting like Soviets in the '60s

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We are acting like Soviets in the '60s

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/10/nyregion/10civil.html

August 10, 2005
U.S. Defends Detentions at Airports
By NINA BERNSTEIN
Foreign citizens who change planes at airports in the United States
can legally be seized, detained without charges, deprived of access to
a lawyer or the courts, and even denied basic necessities like food,
lawyers for the government said in Brooklyn federal court yesterday.

The assertion came in oral arguments over a federal lawsuit by Maher
Arar, a naturalized Canadian citizen who charges that United States
officials plucked him from Kennedy International Airport when he was
on the way home on Sept. 26, 2002, held him in solitary confinement in
a Brooklyn detention center and then shipped him to his native Syria
to be interrogated under torture because officials suspected that he
was a member of Al Qaeda.

Syrian and Canadian officials have cleared Mr. Arar, 35, of any
terrorist connections, but United States officials maintain that
"clear and unequivocal" but classified evidence shows that he is a
Qaeda member. They are seeking dismissal of his lawsuit, in part
through the rare assertion of a "state secrets" privilege.

The case is the first civil suit to challenge the practice known as
"extraordinary rendition," in which terror suspects have been
transferred for questioning to countries known for torture.

After considering legal briefs, Judge David G. Trager of United States
District Court prepared several written questions for lawyers on both
sides to address further, including one that focused pointedly on Mr.
Arar's accusations of illegal treatment in New York. He says he was
deprived of sleep and food and was coercively interrogated for days at
the airport and at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn when
he was not allowed to call a lawyer, his family or the Canadian
consul.

"Would not such treatment of a detainee - in any context, criminal,
civil, immigration or otherwise - violate both the Constitution and
clearly established case law?" Judge Trager asked.

The reply by Mary Mason, a senior trial lawyer for the government, was
that it would not. Legally, she said, anyone who presents a foreign
passport at an American airport, even to make a connecting flight to
another country, is seeking admission to the United States. If the
government decides that the passenger is an "inadmissible alien," he
remains legally outside the United States - and outside the reach of
the Constitution - even if he is being held in a Brooklyn jail.

Even if they are wrongly or illegally designated inadmissible, the
government's papers say, such aliens have at most a right against
"gross physical abuse."

Under immigration law, Ms. Mason asserted, Mr. Arar was afforded
"ample" due process when he was given five days to challenge an order
finding him inadmissible.

"The burden of proof is on the alien to demonstrate his
admissibility," Ms. Mason said, "and he did not do that."

"Do you do this to all people on a connecting flight?" Judge Trager
asked, raising his eyebrows.

"Yes, all have to show admissibility," Ms. Mason replied. In some
ways, she asserted, Mr. Arar had more rights than a United States
citizen, because he could have challenged his deportation to Syria,
which he had left as a teenager, under the Convention Against Torture.
He also had 30 days to challenge his removal, she said.

But David Cole, a law professor at Georgetown University who argued on
behalf of Mr. Arar and the Center for Constitutional Rights, contended
that the government had denied Mr. Arar a meaningful chance to be
heard, first by refusing to let him call a lawyer, and later by lying
to the lawyer about his whereabouts.

Mr. Arar, who had been told he would be deported to Canada, was not
handed a final order sending him to Syria until he was in handcuffs on
the private jet that took him away, Mr. Cole said, while his lawyer
was told he had been sent to a jail in New Jersey.

"We can't take a citizen, pick him up at J.F.K. and send him to Syria
to be tortured," he said. "We can't hold against Mr. Arar the failure
to file a motion for review when he's locked up in a gravelike cell in
Syria."

Dennis Barghaan, who represents former Attorney General John Ashcroft,
one of the federal officials being sued for damages in the case,
argued that Congress and recent judicial decisions tell federal courts
"keep your nose out" of foreign affairs and national security
questions, like those in this case.

At several points the judge seemed to echo such concerns. He said he
had refused to read a letter from the plaintiffs detailing testimony
before a Canadian board of inquiry into Mr. Arar's case because he did
not know how to deal with questions that might require the government
to confirm or deny classified information.

"How am I going to handle that?" he asked, rubbing his forehead and
furrowing his brow before adjourning the hearing.

Part of that article says Syria and Canada cleared him.What if it turns
out he is a terrorist? Do you think I would not be supprised that Syria
AND Canada cleared him?
cuhulin

In case you haven't heard yet,U.S.A.and our Allies are at War agains't
the terrorist and terrorism.In such situations,the "rules" change.
cuhulin

"David" wrote in message ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/10/nyregion/10civil.html

August 10, 2005
U.S. Defends Detentions at Airports
By NINA BERNSTEIN
Foreign citizens who change planes at airports in the United States
can legally be seized, detained without charges, deprived of access to
a lawyer or the courts, and even denied basic necessities like food,
lawyers for the government said in Brooklyn federal court yesterday.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

{other bs snipped}

who in the hell cares???? why do you post this BS on a
radio newsgroup??????

Even if they are wrongly or illegally designated inadmissible, the
government's papers say, such aliens have at most a right against
"gross physical abuse."

Under immigration law, Ms. Mason asserted, Mr. Arar was afforded
"ample" due process when he was given five days to challenge an order
finding him inadmissible.

"The burden of proof is on the alien to demonstrate his
admissibility," Ms. Mason said, "and he did not do that."

"Yes, all have to show admissibility," Ms. Mason replied. In some
ways, she asserted, Mr. Arar had more rights than a United States
citizen, because he could have challenged his deportation to Syria,
which he had left as a teenager, under the Convention Against Torture.
He also had 30 days to challenge his removal, she said.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

That says it all. Boy Im crying real tears after reading this.

J

With the gun related crimes data base showing that the source of guns used
in crimes in Canada coming from the US, perhaps anyone trying to smuggle a
gun in their motorhome on a trip through Canada to Alaska should be
identified immediately as a terrorist and flown involuntarily to a Cuban
jail, with info to his government provided to him after he's gone. Of
course, this would not happen in a democracy with checks and balances and a
constitution would it?

The Arar story can be heard on radio as it unfolds if you wish to listen.

nospam wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/10/nyregion/10civil.html

August 10, 2005
U.S. Defends Detentions at Airports
By NINA BERNSTEIN
Foreign citizens who change planes at airports in the United States
can legally be seized, detained without charges, deprived of access to
a lawyer or the courts, and even denied basic necessities like food,
lawyers for the government said in Brooklyn federal court yesterday.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

{other bs snipped}

who in the hell cares???? why do you post this BS on a
radio newsgroup??????

Even if they are wrongly or illegally designated inadmissible, the
government's papers say, such aliens have at most a right against
"gross physical abuse."

Under immigration law, Ms. Mason asserted, Mr. Arar was afforded
"ample" due process when he was given five days to challenge an order
finding him inadmissible.

"The burden of proof is on the alien to demonstrate his
admissibility," Ms. Mason said, "and he did not do that."

"Yes, all have to show admissibility," Ms. Mason replied. In some
ways, she asserted, Mr. Arar had more rights than a United States
citizen, because he could have challenged his deportation to Syria,
which he had left as a teenager, under the Convention Against Torture.
He also had 30 days to challenge his removal, she said.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

That says it all. Boy Im crying real tears after reading this.

J

War taking toll on Miss. www.clarionledger.com We are fighting the
terrorist and terrorism.y'all mealy mouth Cowards,just get out of the
way! www.devilfinder.com World War Two
cuhulin

David wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/10/nyregion/10civil.html

August 10, 2005
U.S. Defends Detentions at Airports
By NINA BERNSTEIN
Foreign citizens who change planes at airports in the United States
can legally be seized, detained without charges, deprived of access to
a lawyer or the courts, and even denied basic necessities like food,
lawyers for the government said in Brooklyn federal court yesterday.

why should foreigneer have more rights in the US than Americans?

The assertion came in oral arguments over a federal lawsuit by Maher
Arar, a naturalized Canadian citizen who charges that United States
officials plucked him from Kennedy International Airport when he was
on the way home on Sept. 26, 2002, held him in solitary confinement in
a Brooklyn detention center and then shipped him to his native Syria
to be interrogated under torture because officials suspected that he
was a member of Al Qaeda.

Syrian and Canadian officials have cleared Mr. Arar, 35, of any
terrorist connections, but United States officials maintain that
"clear and unequivocal" but classified evidence shows that he is a
Qaeda member. They are seeking dismissal of his lawsuit, in part
through the rare assertion of a "state secrets" privilege.

The case is the first civil suit to challenge the practice known as
"extraordinary rendition," in which terror suspects have been
transferred for questioning to countries known for torture.

After considering legal briefs, Judge David G. Trager of United States
District Court prepared several written questions for lawyers on both
sides to address further, including one that focused pointedly on Mr.
Arar's accusations of illegal treatment in New York. He says he was
deprived of sleep and food and was coercively interrogated for days at
the airport and at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn when
he was not allowed to call a lawyer, his family or the Canadian
consul.

"Would not such treatment of a detainee - in any context, criminal,
civil, immigration or otherwise - violate both the Constitution and
clearly established case law?" Judge Trager asked.

The reply by Mary Mason, a senior trial lawyer for the government, was
that it would not. Legally, she said, anyone who presents a foreign
passport at an American airport, even to make a connecting flight to
another country, is seeking admission to the United States. If the
government decides that the passenger is an "inadmissible alien," he
remains legally outside the United States - and outside the reach of
the Constitution - even if he is being held in a Brooklyn jail.

Even if they are wrongly or illegally designated inadmissible, the
government's papers say, such aliens have at most a right against
"gross physical abuse."

Under immigration law, Ms. Mason asserted, Mr. Arar was afforded
"ample" due process when he was given five days to challenge an order
finding him inadmissible.

"The burden of proof is on the alien to demonstrate his
admissibility," Ms. Mason said, "and he did not do that."

"Do you do this to all people on a connecting flight?" Judge Trager
asked, raising his eyebrows.

"Yes, all have to show admissibility," Ms. Mason replied. In some
ways, she asserted, Mr. Arar had more rights than a United States
citizen, because he could have challenged his deportation to Syria,
which he had left as a teenager, under the Convention Against Torture.
He also had 30 days to challenge his removal, she said.

But David Cole, a law professor at Georgetown University who argued on
behalf of Mr. Arar and the Center for Constitutional Rights, contended
that the government had denied Mr. Arar a meaningful chance to be
heard, first by refusing to let him call a lawyer, and later by lying
to the lawyer about his whereabouts.

Mr. Arar, who had been told he would be deported to Canada, was not
handed a final order sending him to Syria until he was in handcuffs on
the private jet that took him away, Mr. Cole said, while his lawyer
was told he had been sent to a jail in New Jersey.

"We can't take a citizen, pick him up at J.F.K. and send him to Syria
to be tortured," he said. "We can't hold against Mr. Arar the failure
to file a motion for review when he's locked up in a gravelike cell in
Syria."

Dennis Barghaan, who represents former Attorney General John Ashcroft,
one of the federal officials being sued for damages in the case,
argued that Congress and recent judicial decisions tell federal courts
"keep your nose out" of foreign affairs and national security
questions, like those in this case.

At several points the judge seemed to echo such concerns. He said he
had refused to read a letter from the plaintiffs detailing testimony
before a Canadian board of inquiry into Mr. Arar's case because he did
not know how to deal with questions that might require the government
to confirm or deny classified information.

"How am I going to handle that?" he asked, rubbing his forehead and
furrowing his brow before adjourning the hearing.

how is this like the Soviets

We are at least holding hearings on the subject

DaviD - So in 'your' Mind the US Government is out
to Destroy the USA - Wow ! What A Mind ? ? ?