Coalition cutting & running
 

(Curiously, we never heard the Supreme Leader mention any of this in his
rally-the-troops-with-more-propaganda theatrics yesterday...must've slipped
his mind, hmm?)

Dec 1, 4:20 PM EST

Two U.S. Allies Leaving Iraq, More May Go

By WILLIAM J. KOLE
Associated Press Writer

VIENNA, Austria (AP) -- Two of America's allies in Iraq are withdrawing
forces this month and a half-dozen others are debating possible pullouts or
reductions, increasing pressure on Washington as calls mount to bring home
U.S. troops.

Bulgaria and Ukraine will begin withdrawing their combined 1,250 troops by
mid-December. If Australia, Britain, Italy, Japan, Poland and South Korea
reduce or recall their personnel, more than half of the non-American forces
in Iraq could be gone by next summer.

Japan and South Korea help with reconstruction, but Britain and Australia
provide substantial support forces and Italy and Poland train Iraqi troops
and police. Their exodus would deal a blow to American efforts to prepare
Iraqis to take over the most dangerous peacekeeping tasks and craft an
eventual U.S. exit strategy.

"The vibrations of unease from within the United States clearly have an
impact on public opinion elsewhere," said Terence Taylor of the
International Institute for Strategic Studies in Washington. "Public opinion
in many of these countries is heavily divided."

Although the nearly 160,000-member U.S. force in Iraq dwarfs the
second-largest contingent - Britain's 8,000 in Iraq and 2,000 elsewhere in
the Gulf region - its support has shrunk substantially.

In the months after the March 2003 invasion, the multinational force
numbered about 300,000 soldiers from 38 countries. That figure is now just
under 24,000 mostly non-combat personnel from 27 countries. The coalition
has steadily unraveled as the death toll rises and angry publics clamor for
troops to leave.

In the spring, the Netherlands had 1,400 troops in Iraq. Today, there are
19, including a lone Dutch soldier in Baghdad.

Ukraine's remaining 876 troops in Iraq are due home by Dec. 31, fulfilling a
campaign pledge by President Viktor Yushchenko. Bulgaria is pulling out its
380 troops after Dec. 15 parliamentary elections, Defense Minister Veselin
Bliznakov said.

In his strategy for Iraq, announced Wednesday, President Bush said expanding
international support was one of his goals. He also seemed to address the
issue of more allies withdrawing.

"As our posture changes over time, so too will the posture of our coalition
partners," the document says. "We and the Iraqis must work with them to
coordinate our efforts, helping Iraq to consolidate and secure its gains on
many different fronts."

Struggling to shore up the coalition, Bush stopped in Mongolia on his recent
Asia trip and praised its force of about 120 soldiers in Iraq as "fearless
warriors."

At least 2,109 U.S. service personnel have died since the beginning of the
Iraq war, according to an Associated Press count. At least 200 troops from
other countries also have died, including 98 from Britain. Other tolls:
Italy, 27; Ukraine, 18; Poland, 17; Bulgaria, 13; Spain, 11; Slovakia,
three; Denmark, El Salvador, Estonia, Netherlands, Thailand, two each;
Hungary, Kazakhstan, Latvia, one each.

Underscoring mounting opposition in nearly all coalition countries, a poll
published in Japan's Asahi newspaper this week showed 69 percent of
respondents opposed extending the mission, up from 55 percent in January. No
margin of error was given.

Japan's Kyodo News service reported Wednesday that Prime Minister Junichiro
Koizumi's Cabinet would decide Dec. 8 to allow its 600 troops to stay for
another year, but it could decide later to withdraw troops around May.

A British drawdown would be the most dramatic.

Although Prime Minister Tony Blair's government insists there is no
timetable and British forces will leave only when Iraqi troops can take
over, Defense Secretary John Reid suggested last month that a pullout could
begin "in the course of the next year."

South Korea, the second-largest coalition partner after Britain, is expected
to withdraw about 1,000 of its 3,200 troops in the first half of 2006. The
National Assembly is likely to vote on the matter this month.

Italy's military reportedly is preparing to give parliament a timetable for
a proposed withdrawal of its 2,800 troops. Premier Silvio Berlusconi's
government has said it plans to withdraw forces in groups of 300, but in
accordance with the Iraqi government and coalition allies.

Poland's former leftist government, which lost Sept. 25 elections, had
planned to withdraw its 1,400 troops in January. The new defense minister,
Radek Sikorski, visits Washington this weekend for talks on Poland's
coalition plans, and the new government is expected to decide by
mid-December whether to extend its mission beyond Dec. 31.

"Some formula of advisory-stabilizing mission could remain on a smaller
scale, of course, and our commanders are prepared for several variants,"
Col. Zdzislaw Gnatowski of the Polish army's general staff told The
Associated Press.

Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston, head of the Australian Defense Force, has
said about 450 troops in the southern province of Muthanna could leave by
May. Australia has about 900 troops and support staff across Iraq.

Many coalition members have pledged to stay in Iraq for all of 2006; at
least one, Lithuania, has committed to the end of 2007. And the coalition is
still drawing new members, most recently Bosnia, which sent 36 bomb-disposal
experts in June.

"We are getting letters of gratitude from the U.S. commanders for our
peacekeepers' excellent service," said Ilgar Verdiyev, a Defense Ministry
spokesman in Azerbaijan, which has 150 troops in Iraq and is one of the few
mostly Muslim countries to contribute.

---

Associated Press writers Vladimir Isachenkov in Moscow and Ryan Lucas in
Warsaw, Poland, contributed to this report.

© 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be
published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our
Privacy Policy.

Coalition cutting & running
 

yodumbo wrote:

[snip]

Interestingly enough, CanaDuh already cut and ran.

LMFAO at the dumbass Canucks yet again.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Coalition cutting & running
 

Yeah, it's a drag when all those olde fashioned nations want to see their
Johnny come marching home on his owne olde legs instead of a pair of fancy
new prosthetics. LMAO at the genius yankee comedian again, funny stuff!!



"dxAce" wrote in message
...


yodumbo wrote:

[snip]

Interestingly enough, CanaDuh already cut and ran.

LMFAO at the dumbass Canucks yet again.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Coalition cutting & running
 

yodumbo wrote:

Yeah, it's a drag when all those olde fashioned nations want to see their
Johnny come marching home on his owne olde legs instead of a pair of fancy
new prosthetics. LMAO at the genius yankee comedian again, funny stuff!!

Not nearly as funny as a dumbass Canuck!

LMAO

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Coalition cutting & running
 

"yojimbo" wrote in
:

Cutting and Running, I see.

You probably heard of the Japanese that cut and ran from Islands in the
Pacific years after the end of the war. Imagine that, the war was over,
and they cut and ran. Too bad that they didn't hold out, there was always
the chance that Japan would rise from the ashes and defeat the world, yet
these cowards chose to cut and run.

Read some stories about these cowards.

http://history1900s.about.com/librar.../aa120700a.htm

http://www.wanpela.com/holdouts/history.html


The idea that countries would actually expect the war to end, what
arrogance!

Visit these pages to see the human and financial costs to U.S. Citizens
of sustaining the war.

http://nationalpriorities.org/index....per&Itemid=182

http://www.ips-dc.org/iraq/quagmire/#us

The sheer gall of countries that are not willing to dedicate untold
thousands of lives and millions/billions of dollars, what cowards!


Dr. Artuad

Coalition cutting & running
 

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


yodumbo wrote:

Yeah, it's a drag when all those olde fashioned nations want to see their
Johnny come marching home on his owne olde legs instead of a pair of
fancy
new prosthetics. LMAO at the genius yankee comedian again, funny stuff!!

Not nearly as funny as a dumbass Canuck!

Ahh. Feel. Yo. Pain.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!! LMFAO!!!!!

Coalition cutting & running
 

"€ Dr. Artaud €"

The sheer gall of countries that are not willing to dedicate untold
thousands of lives and millions/billions of dollars, what cowards!

America's Zenith occurred on Dec. 8th, 1941 when America harnessed her
resources to beat the supreme **** out of THREE countries in 44 months.

I don't see that kind of resolve within today's population of Liberal
Neo-Kommie FAGGOTS.

Coalition cutting & running
 

"SeeingEyeDog" wrote in
:

How many body parts have you sacrificed for your country? Isn't it nice
living in a country whose claim to fame is destroying other countries?

Regardless of the Liberal Neo-Kommie Faggots, the point is that they had
industries back in 1941 that enabled the U.S. to seriously contribute to
the "war effort". Next time you visit the store, notice all of the items
that are embossed "made in China". I guess you and others of your ilk
believe that the U.S. will engage in a war with China one day while
simultaneously buying their supplies from them. Nope, not likely. The
days of the U.S. "beating the ****" out of other countries has gone the
way of the Victrola.

Sure, we do well against countries in the desert with no tangible
military, and no satellites, but will we always do so well against all
countries? Not so likely.

My 2 cents worth would be to throw the illegal aliens out of the country,
bring the U.S. soldiers home, and stop financially and technologically
building what is likely to become our most formidable enemy to date, ergo
the Chinese. We don't need $19 DVDs, or $300 Computers, they can be made
in the U.S. You will pay more but the neighborhood that you are living in
is less likely to become a ghetto since people will have jobs.

Dr. Artaud





"€ Dr. Artaud €"

The sheer gall of countries that are not willing to dedicate untold
thousands of lives and millions/billions of dollars, what cowards!

America's Zenith occurred on Dec. 8th, 1941 when America harnessed her
resources to beat the supreme **** out of THREE countries in 44 months.

I don't see that kind of resolve within today's population of Liberal
Neo-Kommie FAGGOTS.

Coalition cutting & running
 

The sheer gall of countries that are not willing to dedicate untold
thousands of lives and millions/billions of dollars, what cowards!

True..

I guess there are standards among True Warriors..
Warriors Like

"The Black Knight"

Whose gallant efforts are visible in

" Monty Python & The Holy Grail .."

- The theres the rest of us..

" If at first You don't suceed,
try try try again..
and if that doesn't work ...
Give up!
- Don't make a fool of yourself"

- All is Moot anyway.. the reasons for Invadiong Iraq were all Neocon
Lies . . .

Coalition cutting & running
 

From: "SeeingEyeDog"
Organization: Eat Conscience, **** Ideology
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 18:57:43 -0600
Subject: Coalition cutting & running

Blind-eye dog wrote:

America's Zenith occurred on Dec. 8th, 1941 when America harnessed her
resources to beat the supreme **** out of THREE countries in 44 months.

I don't see that kind of resolve within today's population of Liberal
Neo-Kommie FAGGOTS.

....or in today's population of conservative neo-fascist faggots.

Greg

Coalition cutting & running
 

There were some guys in our 114th Aviation Company whom had no legs.They
were and still are very Proud guys.
cuhulin

Coalition cutting & running
 

You should stop looking on the negative side of things all the time.Like
Oddball (Donald Sutherland) said in that Clint Eastwood Army movie,,,,
How many times have I told you?,,, Think Positive!!!
cuhulin

Coalition cutting & running
 

And William Wallace.
cuhulin

Coalition cutting & running
 

SeeingEyeDog wrote:
America's Zenith occurred on Dec. 8th, 1941 when America harnessed her
resources to beat the supreme **** out of THREE countries in 44 months.

I don't see that kind of resolve within today's population of Liberal
Neo-Kommie FAGGOTS.

Check your history. The country was full of anti-war leftists; that's what
kept us out for the first two years. That's also why it took nearly a year
to get armaments produced; they kept the military budgets down back then,
too. They even had people flee the country to avoid the draft. Difference
was that the press back then was pro-America and didn't make heroes out
of such scum.

--
If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.

Coalition cutting & running
 

Will all due respect "DOCTOR" Artaud,

HOW MANY FAMILY MEMBERS HAVE YOU LOST TO COMMUNISM?

"€ Dr. Artaud €" wrote in message
. ..
"SeeingEyeDog" wrote in
:

How many body parts have you sacrificed for your country? Isn't it nice
living in a country whose claim to fame is destroying other countries?

Regardless of the Liberal Neo-Kommie Faggots, the point is that they had
industries back in 1941 that enabled the U.S. to seriously contribute to
the "war effort". Next time you visit the store, notice all of the items
that are embossed "made in China". I guess you and others of your ilk
believe that the U.S. will engage in a war with China one day while
simultaneously buying their supplies from them. Nope, not likely. The
days of the U.S. "beating the ****" out of other countries has gone the
way of the Victrola.

Sure, we do well against countries in the desert with no tangible
military, and no satellites, but will we always do so well against all
countries? Not so likely.

My 2 cents worth would be to throw the illegal aliens out of the country,
bring the U.S. soldiers home, and stop financially and technologically
building what is likely to become our most formidable enemy to date, ergo
the Chinese. We don't need $19 DVDs, or $300 Computers, they can be made
in the U.S. You will pay more but the neighborhood that you are living in
is less likely to become a ghetto since people will have jobs.

Dr. Artaud





"€ Dr. Artaud €"

The sheer gall of countries that are not willing to dedicate untold
thousands of lives and millions/billions of dollars, what cowards!

America's Zenith occurred on Dec. 8th, 1941 when America harnessed her
resources to beat the supreme **** out of THREE countries in 44 months.

I don't see that kind of resolve within today's population of Liberal
Neo-Kommie FAGGOTS.

Coalition cutting & running
 

"clifto" wrote in message
...

Check your history. The country was full of anti-war leftists; that's what
kept us out for the first two years.

The history I learned says it was the Roosevelt administration which most
wanted us in the war. The Republicans were against it, as was a large part
of the US population, particularly in rural areas.

The American Firsters are kinda sorta still around in the John Birch
Society.

That's also why it took nearly a year
to get armaments produced; they kept the military budgets down back then,
too.

Liberals kept military budgets down? Maybe. The depression certainly did.
Roosevelt would have spent more, but even he had problems with his own tax
and spend party. The borrow and spend party did not yet exist in it's
current form.


They even had people flee the country to avoid the draft.

Let's not forget that the country was still in a funk over the First World
War, after which the "anti-foriegn entanglement" stance of Washington and
Jefferson made perfect sense to many people. And conspiracy theories aren't
a new product of twentyfirst century SW radio. There was then no shortage
of people who thought the blood spilled in the First World War was only to
benefit arms manufacturers and bankers.

Difference
was that the press back then was pro-America and didn't make heroes out
of such scum.


Would that press also include such prominent isolationists as Col. Robert
McCormack of the Chicago Tribune?

Frank Dresser

Coalition cutting & running
 

roosevelt got a lot of people to turn in their gold too.All those people
buying gold nowdays,I wonder if or when fed govt will be going after
their gold,and silver and platium and whatever else that is worth a lot
of money they paid their hard earned dollars for,homes and land? I think
most of us have learned to,Never Trust fed govt.
cuhulin

Coalition cutting & running
 

"SeeingEyeDog" wrote in
:

Are people unjustly killed by "democratic" societies any less dead than
those killed by communist societies?

Is it OK to kill 50,000 Iraqi civilians since a group of Saudis allegedly
commandeered 4 planes, and killed 3000 innocent Americans, in a plan
orchestrated by a man in Afghanistan? Does this not seem convoluted to
you?

Does the invasion of a country to capture WMDs that aren't there seem
odd, as are the allegations that they took the weapons into neighboring
countries (why wouldn't they just use them?)?

Does the persistence of the U.S. to be able to use torture to extract
confessions from captives sound similar to treatment that one might
expect of prisoners in communist countries?

Is the fact that the U.S. is the only country to ever have actually used
nuclear weapons significant to you?

On a planet of insane people, the sane must appear insane.
(Spock from Star Trek)

Dr. Artuad



Will all due respect "DOCTOR" Artaud,

Coalition cutting & running
 

www.devilfinder.com Project Censored

It's a lot more than 50,000 people,according to Project Censored.
cuhulin

Coalition cutting & running
 

"clifto" wrote in message
...
Frank Dresser wrote:
"clifto" wrote...
Check your history. The country was full of anti-war leftists; that's
what
kept us out for the first two years.

The history I learned says it was the Roosevelt administration which
most
wanted us in the war. The Republicans were against it, as was a large
part
of the US population, particularly in rural areas.

Yeah, especially high-ranking Republicans like Joe Kennedy.

Whatever influence Joe Kennedy had in the Roosevelt administration ended
when Roosevelt fired him for insubordination.

Had the Boston Republican brahmins been more hospitible to Irish Catholics,
the Kennedys might have been as Republican as the Rockefellers. Joe Kennedy
did ended up liking Joe McCarthy much better than he liked Roosevelt.

He was
making too much money doing business with Hitler.

OK, you've got me there. I've heard about Kennedy's sleazy financial deals
and mob connections, but I missed Kennedy's business ties with Hitler.
Please fill me in.



That's also why it took nearly a year
to get armaments produced; they kept the military budgets down back
then,
too.

Liberals kept military budgets down? Maybe. The depression certainly
did.
Roosevelt would have spent more, but even he had problems with his own
tax
and spend party. The borrow and spend party did not yet exist in it's
current form.

On the contrary, I'm pretty sure by this time Roosevelt had the WPA and
other stuff going and was well on the road to the free-money-for-the-
indolent economy.

Roosevelt was an anglophile and became a strong freind of Winston Churchill
well before the Pearl Harbor attack. He was way ahead of the American
public in wanting to give direct aid to the British. His opposition came
from those who wanted to keep American money and weapons in America.

I don't see any contradiction in being a welfare statist and wanting to get
America involved with the war.



They even had people flee the country to avoid the draft.

Let's not forget that the country was still in a funk over the First
World
War, after which the "anti-foriegn entanglement" stance of Washington
and
Jefferson made perfect sense to many people. And conspiracy theories
aren't
a new product of twentyfirst century SW radio. There was then no
shortage
of people who thought the blood spilled in the First World War was only
to
benefit arms manufacturers and bankers.

Difference
was that the press back then was pro-America and didn't make heroes out
of such scum.

Would that press also include such prominent isolationists as Col.
Robert
McCormack of the Chicago Tribune?

AAMOF, once Pearl Harbor was a fact, he pretty much went with the flow.
I don't suppose he'd have had much choice; people back then would
boycott a product for antisocial behavior.


Both the Pearl Harbor attack and Hitler's declaration of war against the US
ended the isolationist movement. The isolationists weren't pacifists, but
they weren't interested in war with nations which weren't declared enemies
of the US.

Many US liberals of the era were admirers of the Soviet Union and ended
their neutrality earlier when the Nazis broke the Hitler-Stalin pact.

Frank Dresser

Coalition cutting & running
 

"€ Dr. Artaud €" wrote in message
. ..
"SeeingEyeDog" wrote in
:

Are people unjustly killed by "democratic" societies any less dead than
those killed by communist societies?
Is it OK to kill 50,000 Iraqi civilians since a group of Saudis allegedly
commandeered 4 planes, and killed 3000 innocent Americans, in a plan
orchestrated by a man in Afghanistan? Does this not seem convoluted to
you?

You are a deluded individual who is easilly swayed by propagandic conspiracy
theories.
An clear sign of a weak mind with little to no respect for logic, morals and
ethics.

It is fruitless to continue any further discussion with you until you have
the humbling
oportunity to live under the likes of Mao, Saddam, Stalin or Hitler to name
just a few.
I hope that someday every single Liberal Neo-Kommie has that opportunity.

It is sad and highly unfortunate that those that have experienced such evil
are either
in a Communist gulag or have passed away from old age. It seems modern
humanity
doesn't learn from history and easily succumbs to propaganda by those that
wish to rewrite history.
Communist propaganda is alive and well and most effective on the internet.

Enjoy your Dreamland "Doctor" Artaud.

Coalition cutting & running
 

www.devilfinder.com The Artic Beacon,Articles.
Microwave Weaponry used on Montana Carpenter and 9/11
Researcher...........
cuhulin

Coalition cutting & running
 

From: "SeeingEyeDog"
Organization: Eat Conscience, **** Ideology
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 11:59:05 -0600
Subject: Coalition cutting & running



"€ Dr. Artaud €" wrote in message
. ..
"SeeingEyeDog" wrote in
:

Are people unjustly killed by "democratic" societies any less dead than
those killed by communist societies?
Is it OK to kill 50,000 Iraqi civilians since a group of Saudis allegedly
commandeered 4 planes, and killed 3000 innocent Americans, in a plan
orchestrated by a man in Afghanistan? Does this not seem convoluted to
you?

You are a deluded individual who is easilly swayed by propagandic conspiracy
theories.

Which conspiracy is he swayed by?

An clear sign of a weak mind with little to no respect for logic, morals and
ethics.

Sorry, but that's not logical or ethical. And, arguably, it's not even
moral.

It is fruitless to continue any further discussion

(rant)

with you until you have the humbling
oportunity to live under the likes of Mao, Saddam, Stalin or Hitler to name
just a few.
I hope that someday every single Liberal Neo-Kommie has that opportunity.

Hmmm.
It is sad and highly unfortunate that those that have experienced such evil
are either
in a Communist gulag or have passed away from old age. It seems modern
humanity
doesn't learn from history and easily succumbs to propaganda by those that
wish to rewrite history.

See "Propaganda, Bush administration: Newspaper columnists on government
payroll; government-produced 'news reports' disseminated as independent
work; 'independent Iraqi newspapers' being paid by the U.S. to run
government-produced propaganda."

Communist propaganda is alive and well and most effective on the internet.

Dissent is not communism. The communists never tolerated dissent. Neither
did the fascists.
Enjoy your Dreamland "Doctor" Artaud.

Go back to sleep dawg. You have nothing to offer but intolerance and
sophomoric name-calling.

Greg
My real name.

Coalition cutting & running
 

On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 11:59:05 -0600, "SeeingEyeDog"
wrote:


Communist propaganda is alive and well and most effective on the internet.

As long as fascist *******s like you have computers, the
insane righties will be well-represented as well.


Enjoy your Dreamland "Doctor" Artaud.


Enjoy your wet dreams of world domination.

Coalition cutting & running
 

propagandised

Communist propaganda is alive and well and most effective on the
internet.

As long as fascist *******s like you have computers, the
insane righties will be well-represented as well.


Enjoy your wet dreams of world domination.

Soon you will be enjoying the domination by Communist China.
Enjoy your little world of internet fantasy.

Coalition cutting & running
 

It is fruitless to continue any further discussion with you until you have
the humbling opportunity to live under the likes of Mao, Saddam, Stalin or
Hitler to name just a few. I hope that someday every single Liberal
Neo-Kommie has that opportunity.

It is sad and highly unfortunate that those that have experienced such evil
are either in a Communist gulag or have passed away from old age. It seems
modern humanity doesn't learn from history and easily succumbs to propaganda
by those that
wish to rewrite history. They are doomed to repeat it!

Communist propaganda is alive and well and most effective on the internet.

Enjoy your fantasy "Greg", your "real name".


"Greg" wrote in message
...


From: "SeeingEyeDog"
Organization: Eat Conscience, **** Ideology
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 11:59:05 -0600
Subject: Coalition cutting & running



"€ Dr. Artaud €" wrote in message
. ..
"SeeingEyeDog" wrote in
:

Are people unjustly killed by "democratic" societies any less dead than
those killed by communist societies?
Is it OK to kill 50,000 Iraqi civilians since a group of Saudis
allegedly
commandeered 4 planes, and killed 3000 innocent Americans, in a plan
orchestrated by a man in Afghanistan? Does this not seem convoluted to
you?

You are a deluded individual who is easilly swayed by propagandic
conspiracy
theories.

Which conspiracy is he swayed by?

An clear sign of a weak mind with little to no respect for logic, morals
and
ethics.

Sorry, but that's not logical or ethical. And, arguably, it's not even
moral.

It is fruitless to continue any further discussion

(rant)

with you until you have the humbling
oportunity to live under the likes of Mao, Saddam, Stalin or Hitler to
name
just a few.
I hope that someday every single Liberal Neo-Kommie has that
opportunity.

Hmmm.
It is sad and highly unfortunate that those that have experienced such
evil
are either
in a Communist gulag or have passed away from old age. It seems modern
humanity
doesn't learn from history and easily succumbs to propaganda by those
that
wish to rewrite history.

See "Propaganda, Bush administration: Newspaper columnists on government
payroll; government-produced 'news reports' disseminated as independent
work; 'independent Iraqi newspapers' being paid by the U.S. to run
government-produced propaganda."

Communist propaganda is alive and well and most effective on the
internet.

Dissent is not communism. The communists never tolerated dissent.
Neither
did the fascists.
Enjoy your Dreamland "Doctor" Artaud.

Go back to sleep dawg. You have nothing to offer but intolerance and
sophomoric name-calling.

Greg
My real name.

Coalition cutting & running
 

From: "SeeingEyeDog"
Organization: Eat Conscience, **** Ideology
Newsgroups: rec.radio.shortwave
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 19:45:14 -0600
Subject: Coalition cutting & running

It is fruitless to continue any further discussion with you until you have
the humbling opportunity to live under the likes of Mao, Saddam, Stalin or
Hitler to name just a few. I hope that someday every single Liberal
Neo-Kommie has that opportunity.

Is there an echo in here?

It is sad and highly unfortunate that those that have experienced such evil
are either in a Communist gulag or have passed away from old age. It seems
modern humanity doesn't learn from history and easily succumbs to propaganda
by those that
wish to rewrite history. They are doomed to repeat it!

It's deja vu. I could swear I read this same thing before.

Communist propaganda is alive and well and most effective on the internet.

Enjoy your fantasy "Greg", your "real name".

....and let the sleeping dog lie! And it's just plain Greg, not "Greg".

Coalition cutting & running
 

The Rag Man,1925 silent film on tv now.
The Wall Street District - Where they dry clean without gasoline.

Mannnn,isn't that the truth!
cuhulin

Coalition cutting & running
 

"clifto" wrote in message
...
Frank Dresser wrote:
"clifto" wrote...
Yeah, especially high-ranking Republicans like Joe Kennedy.

Whatever influence Joe Kennedy had in the Roosevelt administration ended
when Roosevelt fired him for insubordination.

1. Kennedy resigned. At that time Roosevelt asked him to continue as
ambassador.

Keeping Joe Kennedy in London minimized the impact Kennedy might have had on
the election of 1940.

Kennedy had to nag Roosevelt to be relieved of duty.

Roosevelt ordered Kennedy to Washington DC after he figured he had the
election in the bag. Roosevelt verbally reamed his ambassador and allowed
him to "resign".


2. Kennedy lost little influence at that time; he was well connected
with Congress and influential members of society.

My point concerned Kennedy's influence in the Roosevelt administration.


Had the Boston Republican brahmins been more hospitible to Irish
Catholics,
the Kennedys might have been as Republican as the Rockefellers. Joe
Kennedy
did ended up liking Joe McCarthy much better than he liked Roosevelt.

I never did figure that one out. Bobby Kennedy worked for McCarthy, too.
Then again, I never got the feeling of extreme liberalism out of John F.
and Bobby as I have from the rest of that family.

He was
making too much money doing business with Hitler.

OK, you've got me there. I've heard about Kennedy's sleazy financial
deals
and mob connections, but I missed Kennedy's business ties with Hitler.
Please fill me in.

Okay, he wasn't doing business *directly* with Hitler, he was doing
business with the Nazi govermnent. That's well documented, and almost
any decent history book will regale you with the tale.

Hmmm. Any web links? A quick check just brings up a bunch of Sherman
Skolnick stuff and the usual allegations about John D. Rockefeller and Presc
ott Bush.



On the contrary, I'm pretty sure by this time Roosevelt had the WPA and
other stuff going and was well on the road to the free-money-for-the-
indolent economy.

Roosevelt was an anglophile and became a strong freind of Winston
Churchill
well before the Pearl Harbor attack. He was way ahead of the American
public in wanting to give direct aid to the British. His opposition
came
from those who wanted to keep American money and weapons in America.

I don't see any contradiction in being a welfare statist and wanting to
get
America involved with the war.

It's very simple. Dollars spent on military aren't buying you votes
from the indolent. That's why the percentage of GNP spent on military
stuff has consistently decreased since WWII, while the %GNP spent on
welfare has consistently risen.

Franklin Roosevelt was calling for a military buildup before the Nazis
invaded Poland. The US was demilitarized under the rugged individualist
Republican administrations between the World Wars.


Would that press also include such prominent isolationists as Col.
Robert
McCormack of the Chicago Tribune?

AAMOF, once Pearl Harbor was a fact, he pretty much went with the flow.
I don't suppose he'd have had much choice; people back then would
boycott a product for antisocial behavior.

Both the Pearl Harbor attack and Hitler's declaration of war against the
US
ended the isolationist movement. The isolationists weren't pacifists,
but
they weren't interested in war with nations which weren't declared
enemies
of the US.

On the contrary, probably more than half the isolationists of the period
would have fit right in with the hippie antiwar movement thirty years
later. Ask an old person (while you can!).

Oh, I'm sure the non interventionists were a mixed bag, just like the
hippies. Some were marxists, some were Jeffersonian types, some were
pacifists, some were facists, some were anti-semites. I expect there were
more prohibitionists among the noninterventionists and more free love
advocates among the hippies. Given the best known advocates of
isolationism, such as Col. Robert McCormack, Father Coughlin, Charles
Lindbergh and many Republicans, I picture the bulk of them as conservative.



Many US liberals of the era were admirers of the Soviet Union and ended
their neutrality earlier when the Nazis broke the Hitler-Stalin pact.

Liberals have always admired the Soviet Union. They're still trying to
establish such a government right here in the USA.

So what is liberalism, anyway? If trying to establish a communist police
state in the US is a defining characteristic of liberalism, there just ain't
enough liberals around to bother with.

Frank Dresser

Coalition cutting & running
 

"clifto" wrote in message
...


http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/psf/box37/a340gg02.html tells a
different story, and it's straight from the horse's mouth.

Huh. I thought Kennedy first offered to resign in October. He did come to
the US in October, but he says his first attempt at resignation was
November. I checked my copy of "A Man Called Intrepid" and it confirms my
memory that the Brits were relaying their spying on Kennedy to Roosevelt.
Roosevelt was not only hearing about his chief appeaser, but also Kennedy's
big political talk such as his statement that he could swing the entire
Irish Catholic vote to Wilkie. However, I never really trust these spy
books. Still, it seems credible, given the rest of Kennedy's activities.

I don't remember where I heard that one of the benefits of letting Joe
Kennedy take the ambassadorship to England is that it would give Roosevelt a
clear field in Democratic politics. Again, it seems credible, but I can't
back it up.



I learned it long ago from dead-trees editions. Can't find anything on
the web in the few minutes I have, but I found this interesting even
if it's not an answer:

http://hnn.us/articles/697.html
"The Nazi ambassador subsequently told his bosses that Kennedy was
"Germany's best friend" in London."

Yep. I wouldn't be suprised if Kennedy was doing business with the Nazis,
but I'd be curious to know if he was making more money in importing scotch
and gin from England.

It is curious that Kennedy is quoted in a letter to Charles Lindberg
bemoaning Kennedy's fear that bad PR events such as Kristalnacht might
derail the efforts to save western civilization. It's unclear from the
letter whether Kennedy had a closer connection to the Nazis than Charles
Lindberg. Had Kennedy had a closer connection, I'm sure he'd have advised
the Nazis to be more diplomatic.



The general consensus was that they'd just finished the War To End All
Wars. No one could have justified much in the way of military spending
under the circumstances.

Yeah, there really wasn't much debating it in the post WW1 world.



Whoever it was, the only thing that stands out as certain is that the
anti-war movement was beyond logical thought, i.e. they wanted to avoid
war no matter what the cost.

The Nazi sympathizers would have had no logical reason to go to war with the
Nazis. The Fortress America types would have tried to substitue a cold war
for a hot war. Appeasment is a logical solution in a hopeless situation.
However, the appeasers underestimated their countrymen and overestimated
their enemy.


Liberalism is a religion. Its god is power, its pope is the President.
They work hard to force the world to live by their religion and no
other, for only their god can control the proletariat. Having a Pope
of the wrong faith is an extreme apostasy, and such a travesty makes
them hate the Pope for pretending to be of the One True Faith and
trying to commune with the Power God.


Cool. I think I'll be a liberal next Halloween.

Trick or Treat!

Frank Dresser