IBOC, place to complain
 

IBOC, place to complain
 

Pete KE9OA wrote:
Ann Gallagher

Charles Miller

These are two people in the FCC that you can contact about the interference
that IBOC transmissions are causing. Will it do any good to complain? Who
know? I took the gamble, and I also e-mailed the local radio stations about
this issue.

Pete

Are those two people open to hearing about BPL interference to
international shortwave broadcasting?

BPL and power-line noise (was IBOC, place to complain)
 

HFguy wrote:

Are those two people open to hearing about BPL interference to
international shortwave broadcasting?

Most interference to international shortwave broadcasting is reportable
and, in theory, enforceable.

Broadband Over Power Line, both access and in-premise BPL, can and does
cause interference to HF and low-VHF reception. There are several
types of BPL, and each has its own unique characteristics, but all
types of BPL have some characteristics that help identify it.

o The most important factor to diagnosing BPL is to determine that it
is in operation in your area. The FCC mandates that the BPL industry
maintain a database of BPL locations and contact information. See
http://www.bpldatabase.org. Don't do too many searches, though, as
each search after your first slows the site way down. If you have any
complaints about the BPL database, contact the FCC about them. ARRL
also maintains a BPL database page at
http://p1k.arrl.org/~ehare/bpl/ex2.html. It contains information from a
much broader range of sources, and has much added value such as
hyperlinks to interference reports, etc. Contact for
any comments or questions about the ARRL's BPL pages.

o BPL occupies a significant swath of spectrum. If you were hearing a
narrowband noise, perhaps across 30 kHz of a SW band, or noise spaced
every 30 kHz across a wide range, this is not BPL. It fully fills any
spectrum it occupies.

o BPL can consist of close-spaced, usually digitally modulated
carriers, typically every 1.1 kHz, or it can sound like broadband
noise. If noise you hear has a strong 120-Hz component to it, it is
still related to power lines or electrical devices, but it is not BPL.

o In its use of spectrum, the onset of BPL vs spectrum is rather
abrupt. For example, you could be tuning up the bands, and at 4 MHz,
the band is clear, but by 4.1 MHz, the noise has increased
dramatically, and stays that way over a few MHz (typically), then
disappears in the same way farther up the band. It's not uncommon for
BPL to occupy several blocks of spectrum over tens of MHz.

If your location and noise match the above, you will probably also see
BPL equipment on your power lines. Look for new boxes and new BPL
couplers on the lines near your house. The ex2.html site listed above
has links to pictures in a number of the entries, as does the ARRL BPL
resource page at http://www.arrl.org/bpl.

If you do have BPL intereference, most of the procedures outlined in
http://p1k.arrl.org/~ehare/bpl/complaints.html also apply to filing
complaints about the reception of international shortwave broadcast.
Unfortunately, although administrations are required to write
regulations to protect the reception of broadcasts from other
countries, the reception of shortwave broadcasts within the US probably
doesn't enjoy such protection. Most SWLs probably listen to more than
just the US religious stations, so if you do have SW interference,
focus your complaint toward the international stations. The US
stations could be interested in receiving your reports, though, as they
may at some point want to speak out about international concerns about
BPL.

Your ability to listen to Amateur Radio stations should also be
protected, as is the reception of WWV, etc. Unfortunately, you
probably cannot claim harmful interference to the reception of utility
stations that are not intended for reception by the general public.

Your initial complaint about BPL should be sent to the operator of the
BPL system. In many cases, you won't know whether this is your electric
company, or a separate ISP, so the most certain way is to start with
your electric company. Send informational cc's to the FCC addressess
listed in the complaints.html URL.

In all cases of interference, it is generally important to identify it
correctly. Although power-line noise can also cause interference, and
it, too, should be reported to your electic utility company and FCC, it
should not be confused with BPL. Every little burst of noise that may
occur for a few seconds, or every single computer "birdie" is not
necessarily harmful interference as defined by the rules, but "legal
limit" broadband signals will be S9 or greater across tens of MHz,
typically over a large geographical area.

Although ARRL's cooperative program with the FCC is specifically
focused on Amateur Radio, the information on ARRL's web page about
power-line interference may also help the SWL better understand
power-line noise and know how to proceed with complaints. Those
complaints should be directed to the FCC Call Center in Gettysburg, PA.
See http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/rfi-elec.html.

Interference from other devices can also affect radiocommunications.
ARRL's general RFI pages at http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/rfigen.html
points to a wide range of free information about interference.
Inquiries about interference involving Amateur Radio can be directed to
. BPL-related questions can be sent to me at
.

Ed Hare,
ARRL Laboratory Manager
Tel: 860-594-0318

IBOC, place to complain
 

Pete KE9OA wrote:
Ann Gallagher

Charles Miller

These are two people in the FCC that you can contact about the interference
that IBOC transmissions are causing. Will it do any good to complain? Who
know? I took the gamble, and I also e-mailed the local radio stations about
this issue.

IMHO IBOC was not a technical decision. The Commission's technical
staff answers to the Commissioners, none of whom have a technical
background. I think the technical staff has been *ordered* to implement
IBOC on both AM and FM stations, and is doing the best they can to
comprimise between the technical consequences of doing this, and the
employment consequences of not doing it.

In the LPFM proceeding they saw exactly what happens when the technical
truth gets in the way of the will of lobbyists.

I don't think any complaint against IBOC will be listened to unless it's
accompanied by large campaign contributions. The chances of KE9OA
outbidding WOR are pretty much zero.

That said, I think IBOC is going to fail of its own volition. On AM,
it'll never sell to the vast majority of stations unless it can be left
on all night. But if it *is* left on all night, the massive
interference will kill the AM service altogether.

On FM, I think it'll simply never sell. IBOC-FM will fade away, as the
digital transmitters suffer inevitable breakdowns & budget-conscious
managers decide not to spend money repairing transmitters nobody is
listening to.

On the receiver end, set prices will have to pretty much equal those of
existing analog sets if they're to compete with satellite. They have a
VERY long way to go to reach that point!
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

Ham stuff for sale:
http://www.w9wi.com/articles/4sale.htm

IBOC, place to complain
 

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 14:55:12 GMT, Doug Smith W9WI
wrote:

Pete KE9OA wrote:
Ann Gallagher

Charles Miller

These are two people in the FCC that you can contact about the interference
that IBOC transmissions are causing. Will it do any good to complain? Who
know? I took the gamble, and I also e-mailed the local radio stations about
this issue.

IMHO IBOC was not a technical decision. The Commission's technical
staff answers to the Commissioners, none of whom have a technical
background. I think the technical staff has been *ordered* to implement
IBOC on both AM and FM stations, and is doing the best they can to
comprimise between the technical consequences of doing this, and the
employment consequences of not doing it.

In the LPFM proceeding they saw exactly what happens when the technical
truth gets in the way of the will of lobbyists.

I don't think any complaint against IBOC will be listened to unless it's
accompanied by large campaign contributions. The chances of KE9OA
outbidding WOR are pretty much zero.

That said, I think IBOC is going to fail of its own volition. On AM,
it'll never sell to the vast majority of stations unless it can be left
on all night. But if it *is* left on all night, the massive
interference will kill the AM service altogether.

On FM, I think it'll simply never sell. IBOC-FM will fade away, as the
digital transmitters suffer inevitable breakdowns & budget-conscious
managers decide not to spend money repairing transmitters nobody is
listening to.

On the receiver end, set prices will have to pretty much equal those of
existing analog sets if they're to compete with satellite. They have a
VERY long way to go to reach that point!
Modern transmitters do not ''break down''. They occasionally will
lose an active device, easily remedied by card swapping and FedEx to
the manufacturer.

IBOC, place to complain
 

I dont know jack about "modern transmitters",,,,, but anything and
everything "modern" is subject to BREAK DOWN BIG TIME AT ANY TIME! Case
in Point,the bush REICHSTAG of September Eleventh,Our Lord Year of Two
Thousand and One.That's what I am Saying.
cuhulin

IBOC, place to complain
 

I Do Believe that U.S.fed govt (U.S.Ministry Of Propaganda,HITLER!!!
they do study fascist,communist,nazi dictatorial thingys,y'all know!)
does NOT like us listening to News via Shortwave Radio around the
World.As I speak right now,we are seeing steps toward that.
cuhulin

IBOC, place to complain
 

David wrote:
Modern transmitters do not ''break down''. They occasionally will
lose an active device, easily remedied by card swapping and FedEx to
the manufacturer.

For which the engineer who does the card swapping will charge. As will
the manufacturer & FedEx, at least after the transmitter is out of
warranty.

A whole lot cheaper than it was in the days where a breakdown meant a
few hours with a soldering iron or a few thousand in tubes, but it's
still money. Money that won't get spent if no revenue is lost by not
spending it.

--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

Ham stuff for sale:
http://www.w9wi.com/articles/4sale.htm

IBOC, place to complain
 

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:29:56 GMT, Doug Smith W9WI
wrote:

David wrote:
Modern transmitters do not ''break down''. They occasionally will
lose an active device, easily remedied by card swapping and FedEx to
the manufacturer.

For which the engineer who does the card swapping will charge. As will
the manufacturer & FedEx, at least after the transmitter is out of
warranty.

A whole lot cheaper than it was in the days where a breakdown meant a
few hours with a soldering iron or a few thousand in tubes, but it's
still money. Money that won't get spent if no revenue is lost by not
spending it.

If tubes and a full-time tech were more cost effective they'd still be
around.

IBOC, place to complain
 

I agree on the point of myself having any appreciable effect. I did receive
an e-mail response from Mr. Miller of the FCC this morning. He wants me to
send him some spectrographs of the stations in question. I am going to see
if I can take one of the 8560 spectrum analyzers home for a day or two. This
way, I can use the marker function and show the delta between the carrier
and the adjacent channel sideband power. The VSA would be even better,
because it could measure ACCP (adjacent channel coupled power).
I did get a response from one of the managers from WTMJ 620 this afternoon.
Nothing from WBBM yet, but I won't hold my breath on this one.
I do believe that if many people expressed their concern there would be a
very small chance that it would have some effect. Unfortunately, money makes
the world go around and if the radio stations think IBOC can increase their
revenue they will go for it.
I don't think it will succeed.................at least I hope not.

Pete

"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message
...
Pete KE9OA wrote:
Ann Gallagher

Charles Miller

These are two people in the FCC that you can contact about the
interference that IBOC transmissions are causing. Will it do any good to
complain? Who know? I took the gamble, and I also e-mailed the local
radio stations about this issue.

IMHO IBOC was not a technical decision. The Commission's technical staff
answers to the Commissioners, none of whom have a technical background. I
think the technical staff has been *ordered* to implement IBOC on both AM
and FM stations, and is doing the best they can to comprimise between the
technical consequences of doing this, and the employment consequences of
not doing it.

In the LPFM proceeding they saw exactly what happens when the technical
truth gets in the way of the will of lobbyists.

I don't think any complaint against IBOC will be listened to unless it's
accompanied by large campaign contributions. The chances of KE9OA
outbidding WOR are pretty much zero.

That said, I think IBOC is going to fail of its own volition. On AM,
it'll never sell to the vast majority of stations unless it can be left on
all night. But if it *is* left on all night, the massive interference
will kill the AM service altogether.

On FM, I think it'll simply never sell. IBOC-FM will fade away, as the
digital transmitters suffer inevitable breakdowns & budget-conscious
managers decide not to spend money repairing transmitters nobody is
listening to.

On the receiver end, set prices will have to pretty much equal those of
existing analog sets if they're to compete with satellite. They have a
VERY long way to go to reach that point!
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

Ham stuff for sale:
http://www.w9wi.com/articles/4sale.htm

IBOC, place to complain
 

Pete KE9OA wrote:
I agree on the point of myself having any appreciable effect. I did receive
an e-mail response from Mr. Miller of the FCC this morning. He wants me to
send him some spectrographs of the stations in question. I am going to see
if I can take one of the 8560 spectrum analyzers home for a day or two. This
way, I can use the marker function and show the delta between the carrier
and the adjacent channel sideband power. The VSA would be even better,
because it could measure ACCP (adjacent channel coupled power).
I did get a response from one of the managers from WTMJ 620 this afternoon.
Nothing from WBBM yet, but I won't hold my breath on this one.

WTMJ is certainly a smaller group, and I don't think they have the
financial interest in Ibiquity some of the larger groups have.

I *have* heard reports of IBOC signals splattering out considerably
further than the theory suggests they should. (for example, of "FM"
IBOC stations trashing 2nd and 3rd adjacents - which shouldn't happen)
I can certainly see where problems in the transmission system can cause
that, and since this is a new mode I'd bet a lot of engineers aren't yet
familiar with what can go wrong.

I doubt you'll get any action from a spectrum analyzer plot that shows
all its energy within 15KHz of carrier. However, I wouldn't be
surprised to see some outside that range, and I can see the FCC acting
on that.

I do believe that if many people expressed their concern there would be a
very small chance that it would have some effect. Unfortunately, money makes
the world go around and if the radio stations think IBOC can increase their
revenue they will go for it.

I think they're grasping at straws, hoping IBOC can stave off
competition from satellite. (much as AM station operators hoped analog
AM stereo could stave off competition from FM)

I just hope it fails quickly enough to not kill off the service entirely.

--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

Ham stuff for sale:
http://www.w9wi.com/articles/4sale.htm

IBOC, place to complain
 

It would be good if IBOC fizzles out sooner than later. In my correspondance
with WTMJ, I did tell them that I can phone them and actually play one of my
radios............demonstrating that actual level of interference.
We as SWLs are more aware of this type of interference because the receivers
we use are sensitive enough to hear that interference in the first place.
WTMJ's sideband noise is at the 30uV level here in Waukegan Illinois, and
many of the "household" radios that you find in homes aren't going to detect
that low of a level. Exceptions are some of the better auto radios.
It is a shame about that interference but, maybe it won't be forever.

Pete

"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message
...
Pete KE9OA wrote:
I agree on the point of myself having any appreciable effect. I did
receive an e-mail response from Mr. Miller of the FCC this morning. He
wants me to send him some spectrographs of the stations in question. I am
going to see if I can take one of the 8560 spectrum analyzers home for a
day or two. This way, I can use the marker function and show the delta
between the carrier and the adjacent channel sideband power. The VSA
would be even better, because it could measure ACCP (adjacent channel
coupled power).
I did get a response from one of the managers from WTMJ 620 this
afternoon. Nothing from WBBM yet, but I won't hold my breath on this one.

WTMJ is certainly a smaller group, and I don't think they have the
financial interest in Ibiquity some of the larger groups have.

I *have* heard reports of IBOC signals splattering out considerably
further than the theory suggests they should. (for example, of "FM" IBOC
stations trashing 2nd and 3rd adjacents - which shouldn't happen) I can
certainly see where problems in the transmission system can cause that,
and since this is a new mode I'd bet a lot of engineers aren't yet
familiar with what can go wrong.

I doubt you'll get any action from a spectrum analyzer plot that shows all
its energy within 15KHz of carrier. However, I wouldn't be surprised to
see some outside that range, and I can see the FCC acting on that.

I do believe that if many people expressed their concern there would be a
very small chance that it would have some effect. Unfortunately, money
makes the world go around and if the radio stations think IBOC can
increase their revenue they will go for it.

I think they're grasping at straws, hoping IBOC can stave off competition
from satellite. (much as AM station operators hoped analog AM stereo
could stave off competition from FM)

I just hope it fails quickly enough to not kill off the service entirely.

--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

Ham stuff for sale:
http://www.w9wi.com/articles/4sale.htm

IBOC, place to complain
 

Pete KE9OA wrote:
It would be good if IBOC fizzles out sooner than later. In my correspondance
with WTMJ, I did tell them that I can phone them and actually play one of my
radios............demonstrating that actual level of interference.
We as SWLs are more aware of this type of interference because the receivers
we use are sensitive enough to hear that interference in the first place.
WTMJ's sideband noise is at the 30uV level here in Waukegan Illinois, and
many of the "household" radios that you find in homes aren't going to detect
that low of a level. Exceptions are some of the better auto radios.

What the stations are going to say is that you're outside the service
area of the station being interfered with. WSM doesn't deliver a
protected-contour signal to Waukegan, so officially, you can't get WSM
there, and so officially, WSCR's lower digital sideband can't be
interfering with WSM.

(as I understand the rules, right now WSM *does* deliver a
protected-contour signal to Waukegan at night - but IBOC proponents want
to drop all protection for skywave signals. There's no way IBOC can be
authorized at night on clear channels, or on 1st or 2nd adjacents to
clear channels (like 620), if they don't.)

But it sure seems to me like AM IBOC already is - during the day -
causing interference within the protected groundwave contours of
existing stations.

A new station (WCKD) came on the air on 1490 in Lebanon, Tenn. around
the first of the year. That's about 40 miles from the WLAC-1510 tower.
On a hunch, I drove over there last weekend.

On a typical car radio (factory radio in 2002 Ford Focus) there was
noticable IBOC QRM on WCKD *within the Lebanon city limits*. Again,
this is on a typical consumer radio - not a hypersensitive DX setup.

Again, as I understand the rules, a station (like WCKD) will not be
authorized unless its city-grade signal encompasses the entire city of
license. The city-grade contour is even smaller than the
interference-protected contour - in other words, WCKD's protected
contour extends beyond the city limits.

In other words, if I understand the rules properly, at least one
"AM"-IBOC station *is* causing interference within the protected
contours of an analog station. I would be very surprised if this is the
only example. I *believe* I've heard interference in the protected
contour of WJJM, Lewisburg (also on 1490) but haven't actually driven
*into* Lewisburg to verify.

Certainly, WCKY-1530 has ceased to be a listening option until WLAC
turns off their HD around 5:00...

FM, IMHO, is much less of a problem. Still, I think many listeners
(especially in further out suburbs, like Waukegan, and outlying cities
like Clarksville) will be surprised to learn they can't officially get
their favorite stations. (the battle between the sidebands of co-owned
96.9 Zion and 97.1 Chicago will be interesting...)

I expect to lose my only adult-alternative and my only jazz choices if
FM-IBOC is fully deployed.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

Ham stuff for sale:
http://www.w9wi.com/articles/4sale.htm

IBOC, place to complain
 

"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message
...

[snip]


That said, I think IBOC is going to fail of its own volition. On AM,
it'll never sell to the vast majority of stations unless it can be left
on all night. But if it *is* left on all night, the massive
interference will kill the AM service altogether.

Nighttime IBOC might not kill AM radio, but it sure will make most fringe
reception impossible. I've recently spent some time in California and the
nighttime jumble of ground wave, skywave and adjacents is even worse than
what I'm used to here in the Midwest. I can imagine the damage IBOC will
cause.


On FM, I think it'll simply never sell. IBOC-FM will fade away, as the
digital transmitters suffer inevitable breakdowns & budget-conscious
managers decide not to spend money repairing transmitters nobody is
listening to.

Let's not forget the digital transmission fees Ibiquity intends to impose.


On the receiver end, set prices will have to pretty much equal those of
existing analog sets if they're to compete with satellite. They have a
VERY long way to go to reach that point!

The electronic "journalists" correctly tell us analog sets are cheap and
often sound crummy, but they don't tell us analog receivers could be much
better for little extra cost. But cheap has been good enough for the people
who buy radios. So, it's questionable whether alot of people would pay
Ibiquity's digital receiver license fee mark-up, at least on the merits of
"CD quality" sound.

However, people might pay extra for multicasting's extra program channels.
Hell, if Ibiquity has a subscription radio scheme up their sleeve, they
might get people to pay and pay and pay.

Frank Dresser





..

IBOC, place to complain
 

The media corporations keep telling us that more channels mean catering to
niche audiences. But cable and satellite TV have mostly given us multiple
channels feeding us programs from the same tired library of action movies
and off-network reruns whether we pay or not.

Shopping channels and infomercials take up the rest of the time and space.

The stock corporation business model applied to media is the problem.

Norm Lehfeldt

"Frank Dresser" wrotf:

However, people might pay extra for multicasting's extra program channels.
Hell, if Ibiquity has a subscription radio scheme up their sleeve, they
might get people to pay and pay and pay.

Frank Dresser

IBOC, place to complain
 

In article ,
"Frank Dresser" wrote:


"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message
...

[snip]


That said, I think IBOC is going to fail of its own volition. On
AM, it'll never sell to the vast majority of stations unless it can
be left on all night. But if it *is* left on all night, the
massive interference will kill the AM service altogether.

Nighttime IBOC might not kill AM radio, but it sure will make most
fringe reception impossible. I've recently spent some time in
California and the nighttime jumble of ground wave, skywave and
adjacents is even worse than what I'm used to here in the Midwest. I
can imagine the damage IBOC will cause.

Snip

I grew up in western New York and don't recall AMBCB stations having
the amount of selective fading as they do here in southern california.
Night time AM broadcast band here in southern California is terrible
most nights with selective fading where the station can be completely
unintelligible for up to a minute or two even with continuously strong
signal levels. Back east the AMBCB or short wave stations would just
have the "normal" signal strength fading where the signal strength
would drop so it could not be heard momentarily. I have as a
consequence found sync detection indispensable for night time AMBCB and
the majority of short wave reception is much improved with it. Recall
that I am a program listener so I spend hours listening to a broadcast
and don't want to miss parts of it.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

IBOC, place to complain
 

"norml" wrote in message
...
The media corporations keep telling us that more channels mean catering to
niche audiences. But cable and satellite TV have mostly given us multiple
channels feeding us programs from the same tired library of action movies
and off-network reruns whether we pay or not.

Give up on TV. Radio is where it's at!

TV progammers have learned to cater to the unimaginative. Did much of the
"Leave it to Beaver"'s audience consider the possibility that Ward and June
had taken Eddie Haskell under wing because Eddie's dad (the guy who was
continually sleeping late or clobbering Eddie) was an abusive alcoholic?
That's just one of the subtleies of that show, brilliantly written about a
boy who was becoming dimly aware of the of the world and who idealized his
parents. Did people think June really got dressed up to do housework? Talk
about TV's pearls before swine.

Had the show been written twenty years later, a "very special" Beaver would
have had the Cleavers doing an intervention on Haskell Sr. and fixing him in
half an hour. Well, that one might have had to have been a two parter, but
I'm sure they could have made Fred Rutherford less of a pompous ass in only
one episode. Such was the understated reality of TV as the color era
matured.

Should 3-D TV ever be developed, I'm sure complete morons will be the most
appreciative.



Shopping channels and infomercials take up the rest of the time and space.

The stock corporation business model applied to media is the problem.


In previous times in our economic history, there weren't enough skilled
factory workers. Now we have the New Economy, and perhaps these now surplus
workers could be retrained to productively program all those stupid
repetitious TV channels. I've seen the schedules. Hardly any apocolyptic
cold war dramas, cape canaveral monsters, flesh eaters and the like. Months
can go between two-headed transplant movies. Well, I know what I'd put on
my cable channel. But, then again, we all should get out and be more
active. Or at least watch one of the fifty excercise equipment
informertials running an any one time.

Frank Dresser

IBOC, place to complain
 

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 01:56:05 GMT, norml wrote:

The media corporations keep telling us that more channels mean catering to
niche audiences. But cable and satellite TV have mostly given us multiple
channels feeding us programs from the same tired library of action movies
and off-network reruns whether we pay or not.

Shopping channels and infomercials take up the rest of the time and space.

The stock corporation business model applied to media is the problem.
Wrong!

The problem is that the audience is not demanding better. We are
crappy consumers consuming crap.

IBOC, place to complain
 

David wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 01:56:05 GMT, norml wrote:

The media corporations keep telling us that more channels mean catering to
niche audiences. But cable and satellite TV have mostly given us multiple
channels feeding us programs from the same tired library of action movies
and off-network reruns whether we pay or not.

Shopping channels and infomercials take up the rest of the time and space.

The stock corporation business model applied to media is the problem.
Wrong!

The problem is that the audience is not demanding better. We are
crappy consumers consuming crap.

Speak for yourself, 'tard boy.

Now run along, mommy says it's time for your morning meds.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

IBOC, place to complain
 

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 02:52:46 GMT, Telamon
wrote:

In article ,
"Frank Dresser" wrote:


"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message
...

[snip]


That said, I think IBOC is going to fail of its own volition. On
AM, it'll never sell to the vast majority of stations unless it can
be left on all night. But if it *is* left on all night, the
massive interference will kill the AM service altogether.

Nighttime IBOC might not kill AM radio, but it sure will make most
fringe reception impossible. I've recently spent some time in
California and the nighttime jumble of ground wave, skywave and
adjacents is even worse than what I'm used to here in the Midwest. I
can imagine the damage IBOC will cause.

Snip

I grew up in western New York and don't recall AMBCB stations having
the amount of selective fading as they do here in southern california.
Night time AM broadcast band here in southern California is terrible
most nights with selective fading where the station can be completely
unintelligible for up to a minute or two even with continuously strong
signal levels. Back east the AMBCB or short wave stations would just
have the "normal" signal strength fading where the signal strength
would drop so it could not be heard momentarily. I have as a
consequence found sync detection indispensable for night time AMBCB and
the majority of short wave reception is much improved with it. Recall
that I am a program listener so I spend hours listening to a broadcast
and don't want to miss parts of it.

I'm 25 miles North of Hollywood. KNX comes in OK at night. The rest
of my listening is S. F., Reno and Las Vegas. I can get KOMO
(Seattle) better than 90% of L.A. at night.

IBOC, place to complain
 

Well,WSM,I can pick up,no sweat.Waukegan,I have been through Waukegan
before on a Greyhound bus in December of 1956.Hey,do you know that old
song thingy,Big Noise From Winetka? I remember some of it.Do you? It's
kind of a catchy little tune.One time about ten years ago,I was in a
home building products store in Jacksonville,Florida and I was whistling
that tune.There was a woman from the Shytown (Chicago) area sitting
there at the information desk.She started whistling it too.
cuhulin

IBOC, place to complain
 

David wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 02:52:46 GMT, Telamon
wrote:

In article ,
"Frank Dresser" wrote:


"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message
...

[snip]


That said, I think IBOC is going to fail of its own volition. On
AM, it'll never sell to the vast majority of stations unless it can
be left on all night. But if it *is* left on all night, the
massive interference will kill the AM service altogether.

Nighttime IBOC might not kill AM radio, but it sure will make most
fringe reception impossible. I've recently spent some time in
California and the nighttime jumble of ground wave, skywave and
adjacents is even worse than what I'm used to here in the Midwest. I
can imagine the damage IBOC will cause.

Snip

I grew up in western New York and don't recall AMBCB stations having
the amount of selective fading as they do here in southern california.
Night time AM broadcast band here in southern California is terrible
most nights with selective fading where the station can be completely
unintelligible for up to a minute or two even with continuously strong
signal levels. Back east the AMBCB or short wave stations would just
have the "normal" signal strength fading where the signal strength
would drop so it could not be heard momentarily. I have as a
consequence found sync detection indispensable for night time AMBCB and
the majority of short wave reception is much improved with it. Recall
that I am a program listener so I spend hours listening to a broadcast
and don't want to miss parts of it.

I'm 25 miles North of Hollywood. KNX comes in OK at night. The rest
of my listening is S. F., Reno and Las Vegas. I can get KOMO
(Seattle) better than 90% of L.A. at night.


I assume you're in the Santa Clarita area? The transverse mountains
between Bakersfield and LA (not sure what they're called officially, the
Techachapis maybe?) are The Dead Zone when it comes to radio. You simply
can not hear ANYTHING on AM or FM in Lebec or Gorman or anywhere in the
Tejon passes. When driving south, I notice that some stuff from LA fades
in, albeit noisily, in Santa Clarita and then dies again until you get
fully into the San Fernando Valley. The mountains around LA play havoc
with radio. Riverside has to have its own set of FM stations because the
LA based stations won't reach.