LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

Yesterday I took down the Wellbrook 330S antenna I've been using. I
wanted to get this little chore out of the way, as I'm moving to a new
home soon and will of course be taking the loop with me. I decided
that, until the move, I'd put my LF Engineering H-800 antenna back into
service.

After doing this and reacquainting myself with the H-800, I think I'm
going to have to do some more careful comparisons between it and the
Wellbrook. The H-800 is surprisingly...I'd even say shockingly...good.
It's markedly better than the Wellbrook below 5 mhz. Maybe this isn't
so surprising, since the 330S isn't optimized for those frequencies.
Still, at some point I'm going to have to do a more careful comparison
of them above 5 mhz....just for the heck of it.. I did notice that
reception of Radio Australia on 9580 khz on the H-800 was better than
I'd heard in a long while.

This confirms my impression that the H-800 is one of the best deals
around on an active antenna, even though it's not particularly "talked
about".

If anyone's compared the H-800 to a McKay-Dymek or Dressler antenna,
I'd like to know the results.

Steve

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

In article .com,
wrote:

Yesterday I took down the Wellbrook 330S antenna I've been using. I
wanted to get this little chore out of the way, as I'm moving to a new
home soon and will of course be taking the loop with me. I decided
that, until the move, I'd put my LF Engineering H-800 antenna back into
service.

After doing this and reacquainting myself with the H-800, I think I'm
going to have to do some more careful comparisons between it and the
Wellbrook. The H-800 is surprisingly...I'd even say shockingly...good.
It's markedly better than the Wellbrook below 5 mhz. Maybe this isn't
so surprising, since the 330S isn't optimized for those frequencies.
Still, at some point I'm going to have to do a more careful comparison
of them above 5 mhz....just for the heck of it.. I did notice that
reception of Radio Australia on 9580 khz on the H-800 was better than
I'd heard in a long while.

This confirms my impression that the H-800 is one of the best deals
around on an active antenna, even though it's not particularly "talked
about".

If anyone's compared the H-800 to a McKay-Dymek or Dressler antenna,
I'd like to know the results.

It's harder than you think making antenna comparisons. As an example my
loop antenna generally works better during the dark hours and the folded
dipole works better daytime. It could be due to the reception angle of
the antennas but that is what I have found. Sometimes one antenna just
works better then another depending on conditions and frequency.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

Congrats on buying a new home. It would be interesting if you could
do a shootout with the Wellbrook, LF and a 75' longwire if you have the
space for it. Do you have one of the AOR loops also. I am in an
apartment and looking into something to mate with my R-75. Looking for
better performance than what this indoor ceiling loop and Sony AN LP-1
can provide.

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

Maybe after I'm settled I'll do a more thorough test. Telemon is right
to point out that, if such a comparison is to be done correctly, there
are a lot of variables to control for.

You might consider the H-800. It's available in the US and would easily
outperform the AN LP-1. It's small and easy to locate in a quiet spot.
Unlike the Sony loop, you could mount it outdoors, which is key. An
excellent value for the money. I'm surprised that it doesn't get more
positive press, but then I don't think the guys at LF Engineering have
worked that hard to market it.

LF Engineering is a good company to deal with, by the way. I found them
to be very helpful.

I know a couple of people who've complained that they had overload
problems with the H-800. I suspect this was more the fault of their
receivers than the H-800. However, in any case, these problems would
disappear with a good high pass filter.

Steve

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

One thing not to get hung up on in antenna testing is the signal
strength IF the antenna is active. With amplification, you can get any
S reading you want. It's not a figure of merit for signal quality.

I made a "form" of sorts where I can easily test out different wire
(i.e. loop) configurations with the Wellbrook ALA 100. If you put too
many turns of wire on the form, there seems to be a resonance. I was
getting a lot of hash around 7Mhz with 24 turns at 8ft per turn.
Cuttting that to 6 turns seems pretty good, but I'm still experimenting
with it.

I use sprinker risers to run the wire over. The type I used has grooves
on it. The grooves holds the wire in place. I can't find a good photo
of it on the net, but the risers are sold by Lowes.




Telamon wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:

Yesterday I took down the Wellbrook 330S antenna I've been using. I
wanted to get this little chore out of the way, as I'm moving to a new
home soon and will of course be taking the loop with me. I decided
that, until the move, I'd put my LF Engineering H-800 antenna back into
service.

After doing this and reacquainting myself with the H-800, I think I'm
going to have to do some more careful comparisons between it and the
Wellbrook. The H-800 is surprisingly...I'd even say shockingly...good.
It's markedly better than the Wellbrook below 5 mhz. Maybe this isn't
so surprising, since the 330S isn't optimized for those frequencies.
Still, at some point I'm going to have to do a more careful comparison
of them above 5 mhz....just for the heck of it.. I did notice that
reception of Radio Australia on 9580 khz on the H-800 was better than
I'd heard in a long while.

This confirms my impression that the H-800 is one of the best deals
around on an active antenna, even though it's not particularly "talked
about".

If anyone's compared the H-800 to a McKay-Dymek or Dressler antenna,
I'd like to know the results.

It's harder than you think making antenna comparisons. As an example my
loop antenna generally works better during the dark hours and the folded
dipole works better daytime. It could be due to the reception angle of
the antennas but that is what I have found. Sometimes one antenna just
works better then another depending on conditions and frequency.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

Should not a long wire always be made as an End Fire Zepp, this is a
conclusion I made over the weekend.

All long wires should be EF Zepps IMHO

Paul

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

There is now avaiable made by LF their H900 which has higher gain and
more resilience to local transmitters. It is available only thru Grove

http://www.grove-ent.com/antennas.html

Paul

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

wrote:
There is now avaiable made by LF their H900 which has higher gain and
more resilience to local transmitters. It is available only thru Grove

http://www.grove-ent.com/antennas.html

Paul


Unfortunately, they don't seem to offer the option of having bnc
connectors instead of a permanently attached cable between the antenna
and the coupler.

LF Engineering offered this on the h-800 for another $20 or so, and I
thought it was a good idea.

I used to use an H-800 for my portable setup, and it was a nice antenna,
but using it as a portable meant the coax was stressed where it enters
the probe.

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

Check with them on this.
I contacted both LF Eng. and Grove about this shortly after the LF 900
came out and they agreed to provide a BNC connector as an extra cost option.
73,
Chuck

Mark S. Holden wrote:
wrote:

There is now avaiable made by LF their H900 which has higher gain and
more resilience to local transmitters. It is available only thru Grove

http://www.grove-ent.com/antennas.html

Paul


Unfortunately, they don't seem to offer the option of having bnc
connectors instead of a permanently attached cable between the antenna
and the coupler.

LF Engineering offered this on the h-800 for another $20 or so, and I
thought it was a good idea.

I used to use an H-800 for my portable setup, and it was a nice antenna,
but using it as a portable meant the coax was stressed where it enters
the probe.

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

KA6UUP wrote:
Check with them on this.
I contacted both LF Eng. and Grove about this shortly after the LF 900
came out and they agreed to provide a BNC connector as an extra cost
option.
73,
Chuck


I'm not in the market for one now, but I'll keep it in mind for the
future.

At the time I bought the 800, it was second only to the Wellbrook for
active antennas. The 900 might surpass it.

Mark S. Holden wrote:


Unfortunately, they don't seem to offer the option of having bnc
connectors instead of a permanently attached cable between the antenna
and the coupler.

LF Engineering offered this on the h-800 for another $20 or so, and I
thought it was a good idea.

I used to use an H-800 for my portable setup, and it was a nice
antenna, but using it as a portable meant the coax was stressed where
it enters the probe.

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

Wasn't Kiwa planning to market an active antenna for SW at one time? I
wonder if that plan is still in the works. Kiwa's owner appears to be a
pretty talented guy. I gotta believe he needs more of a challange than
performing receiver upgrades.

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

Has anybody messed with the AOR loops. I want to know how they
compare to the Wellbrooks.

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

I have one of the LA-350 loops from AOR. It's no match for the
Wellbrooks. It's a good antenna, but it's for indoor use only. That's a
profound disadvantage.

It's fairly easy to find an outdoor location for one of the Wellbrooks
and it would be trivially easy to find a spot for one of the H-800
antennas, since they're only around 26 inches in length. There's almost
always a way to get an antenna outside the house, where it's meant to
be!

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

The LF looks like an amplified whip. I seriously doubt it would be in
the Wellbrook league. Those amplified whip are really noisy, especially
at lower frequencies.

Maybe in the Mojave you can get away with an amplified whip.


Mark S. Holden wrote:
KA6UUP wrote:
Check with them on this.
I contacted both LF Eng. and Grove about this shortly after the LF 900
came out and they agreed to provide a BNC connector as an extra cost
option.
73,
Chuck


I'm not in the market for one now, but I'll keep it in mind for the
future.

At the time I bought the 800, it was second only to the Wellbrook for
active antennas. The 900 might surpass it.

Mark S. Holden wrote:


Unfortunately, they don't seem to offer the option of having bnc
connectors instead of a permanently attached cable between the antenna
and the coupler.

LF Engineering offered this on the h-800 for another $20 or so, and I
thought it was a good idea.

I used to use an H-800 for my portable setup, and it was a nice
antenna, but using it as a portable meant the coax was stressed where
it enters the probe.

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

So would a Wellbrook 330 or 1530 placed in a window frame be better
than the AOR models. To place a unit outside is not a option for me.

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

I know two people with Wellbrook loops indoors. They work, but look
goofy of course. In a home office or radio room, who cares if it looks
odd. You need to rig up some support. I use a cement patio umbrella
stand that uses ordinary PVC. OSH sells them. I'm not really sure being
near the window helps since you are receiving a sky wave, not a signal
beamed along the horizon.

I agree that antennas out in the open work best, but HF is not a line
of sight reception. Height doesn't make right for HF, at least not for
a loop. [Beams would be a different story.] . Of course, outdoors means
it won't be close to your noise sources.

I had something kind of odd happen today with my Wellbrook. The
strongest BCB station I can receive is on 680. It is so strong that my
7030 kicks in the attenuator. Even with the atennuator, it reads about
S+40. Anyway, today, the 3rd harmonic of the station, 2040, showed up
in the shortwave band. If I hadn't use the same gear before, I would
have blamed the amp (ALA100) or the radio. The harmonic signal was in
the mud, maybe S4, but clear enough to hear the station ID.



MojaveDxer wrote:
So would a Wellbrook 330 or 1530 placed in a window frame be better
than the AOR models. To place a unit outside is not a option for me.

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

Actually, I find the H-800 to be astoundingly quiet. It's so small and
so easy to situate in a quiet spot. And once it's situated, it's as
quiet as its location.

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

Wellbrook makes other models that are specifically for indoor use.
They're smaller than the 330 and the 1530 and semi-rigid. I don't know
if they are capable of the same high level of performance as the 330 or
the 1530, but the 330 / 1530 couldn't meet their full potential anyway
if you can really only use them indoors.

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

And why would this vertical be quieter than any other vertical? Seems
to me you can't fight physics.

Even in a quiet spot, a whip plus fet amp will be noisier than a
magnetic loop due to the nature of the noise sources.


wrote:
Actually, I find the H-800 to be astoundingly quiet. It's so small and
so easy to situate in a quiet spot. And once it's situated, it's as
quiet as its location.

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

An excellent question. I wish I had an excellent answer. I don't know
why the H-800 is so quiet. I just go with whatever works. Maybe someone
else can help out with greater detail.

wrote:
And why would this vertical be quieter than any other vertical? Seems
to me you can't fight physics.

Even in a quiet spot, a whip plus fet amp will be noisier than a
magnetic loop due to the nature of the noise sources.


wrote:
Actually, I find the H-800 to be astoundingly quiet. It's so small and
so easy to situate in a quiet spot. And once it's situated, it's as
quiet as its location.

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

Oh, by the way, I didn't mean to suggest that the H-800 is quieter than
the loop. It's not. But it is exceptionally quiet in my experience.

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

In article . com,
wrote:

An excellent question. I wish I had an excellent answer. I don't know
why the H-800 is so quiet. I just go with whatever works. Maybe
someone else can help out with greater detail.

wrote:
And why would this vertical be quieter than any other vertical?
Seems to me you can't fight physics.

Even in a quiet spot, a whip plus fet amp will be noisier than a
magnetic loop due to the nature of the noise sources.


wrote:
Actually, I find the H-800 to be astoundingly quiet. It's so
small and so easy to situate in a quiet spot. And once it's
situated, it's as quiet as its location.

Well, it's a small voltage field antenna that you can locate away from
noise sources outside a building is about all it has going for it from
the conceptual standpoint. From a circuit design viewpoint it must have
a well designed low noise amplifier. The reviews indicate it is a good
performance active antenna but it does pick up local noise sources so
the antennas location must be a quite one.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

OK, that makes more sense Those active whips are good for quick and
dirty portable use, but a magnetic loop is like magic.

I'd be curious what they use for an amp, since a single fet is par for
the course in that product. Those active whips are real high margin
products.

The Wellbrook is another story. I think they use a high bandwidth
transformer, which is how they float the antenna above ground. North
Hills makes those transformers, but they aren't cheap. When the dust
settled, I figured buying the Wellbrook made more sense than trying to
duplicate one. You can do a differential amp to avoid the transformer,
but that increases the noise.

wrote:
Oh, by the way, I didn't mean to suggest that the H-800 is quieter than
the loop. It's not. But it is exceptionally quiet in my experience.

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
And why would this vertical be quieter than any other vertical? Seems
to me you can't fight physics.

Even in a quiet spot, a whip plus fet amp will be noisier than a
magnetic loop due to the nature of the noise sources.

Better read this before we start discussing that a loop can distinguish
noise sources.
http://www.w8ji.com/magnetic_receiving_loops.htm

I see two reasons why a loop might be quieter:
1. If there is a single noise source, the loop's null may be used to reduce
the source
2. Active whips must have a good ground at the antenna. Without it, the
coaxial shield becomes part of the antenna- both picking up noise in the
house and conducting noise from the house back to the whip.


Dale W4OP

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

Dale Parfitt wrote:

Better read this before we start discussing that a loop can distinguish
noise sources.

True enough. I had to go to fairly extreme lengths to find a permanent
location for the Wellbrook because it was picking up noise. In the end,
I needed to locate it in exactly the same spot I'm using the H-800 in
now. The Wellbrook is definitely quieter than the H-800, but it's not
uncommon for me to make out signals on the H-800 that I cannot make out
on the Wellbrook--no doubt for many of the reasons Telemon described
(polarization, frequency, time of day, etc.). Don't get me wrong: The
Wellbrook is the better antenna overall, but the H-800 doesn't get
nearly enough credit in my view. It's significantly cheaper than the
Wellbrook and is manufactured right here in the good ole' U. S. of A. I
think it's an excellent value.

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

Mark S. Holden wrote:

I use an active whip for camping trips and vacations - largely because
they're easy to transport and set up. The one I'm using now is a 3
meter whip that folds like a tent pole with an impedance matching
transformer, and a milspec Avantek low noise high gain amp.

What model Avantek amp' are you using?

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

225ft from any noise source. Great .Let's see. I could buy the 3 homes
across the street, 3 behind me, and the homes on either side, then tear
them all down. So that's 8 homes at about $650k each, or $5.2 million.

No, I think it's better to spend a bit more and get the Wellbrook.


Mark S. Holden wrote:
wrote:
The LF looks like an amplified whip. I seriously doubt it would be in
the Wellbrook league. Those amplified whip are really noisy, especially
at lower frequencies.

Maybe in the Mojave you can get away with an amplified whip.



The trick with a whip is putting it in a low noise location.

My random wire at home is at least 225 feet away from any source of rfi.
An H800 or H900 would work fine back there.

I use an active whip for camping trips and vacations - largely because
they're easy to transport and set up. The one I'm using now is a 3
meter whip that folds like a tent pole with an impedance matching
transformer, and a milspec Avantek low noise high gain amp.

Obviously it's easy to find a quiet spot for an antenna when you're in
the woods.

Fortunately, it's also easy for me to set up an antenna in a low noise
location at the three places I tend to go for vacations and weekend
getaways - and they're good places for swl - perhaps because they're all
on or very near water.

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

Or maybe you have the space for, say, a 100 ft wire? The Wellbrook is a
great antenna, so long as you find a quiet spot for it. In general,
though, I would trade it for 100 ft of wire in a quiet location.

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

My yard measures 170 feet,front to back and 60 feet side to side.Or is
it 160 feet front to back and 70 feet side to side? I forget,I did
measure it off a bunch of years ago.Of course I could run an overhead
wire diagonaly from Southeast to Northwest or Southwest to Northeast.I
dont think those two single women next door to me would mind if I ran an
overhead wire from my yard across their yard and I could double the
lenght of overhead wire.Those people who live on the other side,next
door to me probally wouldn't mind either.I could triple the lenght of
overhead wire and I dont think those people who live next door to those
two single women next door to me,two houses down the street from me
would mind all that much either.The possibilities are endless around
here.
cuhulin

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

Maybe you should ask that sassy gal to help set up your vertical whip!

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

HFguy wrote:
Mark S. Holden wrote:

I use an active whip for camping trips and vacations - largely because
they're easy to transport and set up. The one I'm using now is a 3
meter whip that folds like a tent pole with an impedance matching
transformer, and a milspec Avantek low noise high gain amp.


What model Avantek amp' are you using?

It's an AMG-502M. It's a 15v preamp, but I run it (and my 7030+) on
14.4v nimh battery packs.

Gain is 30db. It's rated for 5-500mhz but I generally dial in some
attenuation on the radio below about 5mhz because it's still got more
gain than you need (or want) down there.

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

I've run my radio from a gelcell where the closest noise source is the
farting of one of those poor cows that live in the high desert. I've
done the long wire, long wire plus Palomar magentic balun, and the
Wellbrook, all in the same "dxpedition." It's not even a contest. The
Wellbrook is much quieter. Finding trees worth a damn to string an
antenna in the high desert isn't easy. I had to go to a spot that had
those junipers you see around the 6000ft level. BTW, I used ceramic
insulators for both long wire setups.

Somewhere around 40 to 60ft of wire on the Wellbrook ALA 100 is the
magic spot.


wrote:
Or maybe you have the space for, say, a 100 ft wire? The Wellbrook is a
great antenna, so long as you find a quiet spot for it. In general,
though, I would trade it for 100 ft of wire in a quiet location.

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

Ah, the ALA-100...I don't have any first hand experience with the 100.
I would expect it to be a better performer than the 330S, though, since
it's Wellbrook's "large aperture" antenna. I suspect it would be better
than an ordinary random wire. Sounds like fun.

wrote:
I've run my radio from a gelcell where the closest noise source is the
farting of one of those poor cows that live in the high desert. I've
done the long wire, long wire plus Palomar magentic balun, and the
Wellbrook, all in the same "dxpedition." It's not even a contest. The
Wellbrook is much quieter. Finding trees worth a damn to string an
antenna in the high desert isn't easy. I had to go to a spot that had
those junipers you see around the 6000ft level. BTW, I used ceramic
insulators for both long wire setups.

Somewhere around 40 to 60ft of wire on the Wellbrook ALA 100 is the
magic spot.


wrote:
Or maybe you have the space for, say, a 100 ft wire? The Wellbrook is a
great antenna, so long as you find a quiet spot for it. In general,
though, I would trade it for 100 ft of wire in a quiet location.

LF Engineering H-800 antenna
 

The ALA100 is a roll your own Wellbrook. They sell the amp, you come up
with the wire.

I've run one ALA 100 scheme with a suare loop 11ft on the diagonal.
Obviously not suitable for indoor use. I have a wire holding scheme now
that uses a 5 ft on the diagonal form with 3 loops of wire. The
performance is quite good. This seems to be all the inductance the ALA
100 can handle. I think you get a LC filter with the ALA100, with the C
of the amp and the L of the wire. Too much inductance will put the
resonance in the HF band.

This 3 loop scheme gets good perfrmance on AFN out of Hawaii, though
the noise is higher than I care for. I think another turn or two would
do the trick, but I have to compute the requires "depth" of the coil to
keep the inductance the same as the 3 loop scheme. A larger loop is
generally the best solution if you have the space as it has the least
self inductance (no mutual term).

I had thought the null woould be worse with multiple turns. I don't
believe this is the case. In fact, the null is sharper, which actually
makes it harder to find the null.


wrote:
Ah, the ALA-100...I don't have any first hand experience with the 100.
I would expect it to be a better performer than the 330S, though, since
it's Wellbrook's "large aperture" antenna. I suspect it would be better
than an ordinary random wire. Sounds like fun.

wrote:
I've run my radio from a gelcell where the closest noise source is the
farting of one of those poor cows that live in the high desert. I've
done the long wire, long wire plus Palomar magentic balun, and the
Wellbrook, all in the same "dxpedition." It's not even a contest. The
Wellbrook is much quieter. Finding trees worth a damn to string an
antenna in the high desert isn't easy. I had to go to a spot that had
those junipers you see around the 6000ft level. BTW, I used ceramic
insulators for both long wire setups.

Somewhere around 40 to 60ft of wire on the Wellbrook ALA 100 is the
magic spot.


wrote:
Or maybe you have the space for, say, a 100 ft wire? The Wellbrook is a
great antenna, so long as you find a quiet spot for it. In general,
though, I would trade it for 100 ft of wire in a quiet location.