Eric F. Richards wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:

Eric F. Richards wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:

And, again, in the US Radio is ALWAYS about the money.

[...]
This is the crux of the matter: Advertisers call the shots. They always
have. Everywhere.
Sure. But both the stations and the advertisers are working from a
flawed model. It's like two blind guys trying to take care of an
elephant, based solely on how the tail feels to them.

The advertiser is told that if he does such-and-such, the tail will
feel better according to some arbitrary attribute of how the tail
feels. So he does such and such, and the tail feels better according
to his measure.

But his measure has no effect on the real picture. Everyone sees
through the same distorted lens, so they get the right results based
on that view.

But the view has nothing to do with the real elephant, or listening
audience.

Yes. Actually, there's more truth to that analogy than most are
willing to recognize. But the real matter is that it doesn't matter
whether the model is flawed, or not. It's what works for the people who
make the decisions and call the shots. It produces revenue and profits
and business embraces it. Radio is in the business of selling the tails.

But to stretch the analogy to its limits, the two blind guys are
putting conditioner on the tail to make it softer, but the elephant
never gets fed or gets any water. The elephant dies eventually, no
matter how wonderful the tail feels.


And the final analogy would be that the elephant is only a tool. It
will be replaced by a younger, more complaint elephant that meets the
needs of both the blind men. If it dies, it will be replaced.





And for the comparatively few, like you and me, it's distasteful that
things work this way. It's a waste of resource. So be it. It is the way
it is. If you can convince Radio there's money in changing
it...well...then make your pitch.

Oh, no. The emperor is naked, but no one is willing to believe that.
I'm just an observer, watching something very sad happening.


You, like me, are one who is no longer being served. It happens. The
more desirable are younger, hipper, or less demanding in areas not
easily provided for. The emperor may be naked. But we, and a few like
us, are the only non nudists in the empire. The those who advise the
emperor only listen to the many who are also naked.





I've said this nine ways from Sunday, and I don't know how to say it
better, so let's try some fundamental questions -- I respect your
viewpoint, Peter:

Do you think that terrestrial radio will have more listeners hearing
those ads, or fewer, in 10 years? Do you think the so-called HD/IBOC
(which is neither HD, nor in-band) will improve the situation or not?

Me personally? Fractionalization of the audience will bleed off
listening, yes. I think so. Radio will adapt. As David likes to point
out, listening levels per capita are only marginally less than they were
in the 70's. Although, during some pretty detailed staff meetings at In
finity, Mel Karmazin painted an entirely different picture. HD/IBOC FM
has some advantages, without the liabilities of AM HD/IBOC. Multiple
revenue streams and, ultimately, subscription radio among them. AM
HD/IBOC is not so compelling to listen to as good AM Stereo. And it
comes with some technical liabilities which we've all discussed. But
then, listeners respond to content. If the content is what a listener
finds appealing, quality is relative. Noise, on the other hand, is a
different matter. If HD does away with the crackle of electrical and
atmospheric noise on AM then it will attract a listener base regardless
of the audio quality, which to my ears blows chunks.

Yes. Do you remember when CDs first came out? The "golden ears"
complained about the artifacts, even thought the Nyquist Limit was
22,050 kHz. They found the sound fatiguing.


And they were. Digital recordings by engineers recording with analog
mindsets. Too much equalization. Preemphasis. Compression. Then came the
'purists.' Mic to disk. No better. Finally came those who really got it.
Who understood the medium, and also understood the way listeners really
hear music. Back came some limiting and the spectral effects. But
applied with different intents. And applied differently by each
recordist, mastering engineer, and mixer. Some CD's still suck. But
nothing sounds like those early discs.

So it will be with HD. If it lasts, it will evolve. Like the CD, it
will eventually be embraced as a fidelity medium.

For the record, though, CD's were never intended to be high fidelity.
Philips promoted them as mid-fi media. Of course Philips also intended
the cassetted to be a dictation only medium...so things don't always fly
as intended.


This time, one won't need a golden ear to hear the artifacts. I
cringe on what comes out of my car radio from NPR when they have a
feed filled with artifacts. When you can hear it over the road noise
on a car radio... that's an accomplishment.


It's one of the reasons I listen to less radio, these days.



It won't just sound bad, it will be painful to listen to.


And it will improve.



I don't care for it. But then, I don't do much listening, anymore,
either.


Bottom line. No matter what the advertisers are willing to pay,
there's no return if there are no listeners.


Reality: listeners lost will be replaced. Every assault to radio over
the last 75 years has resulted in a revolution of sorts. With new
listeners being replaced by the old.

You and I will be replaced.

We already have been.



You can get a cap cost past the bean counters. Recurring costs
they'll move heaven and earth to cut.

Yeah, I have my own experiences along those lines -- like the bean
counters being willing to pay 60% of the buyout cost on a lease for a
piece of equipment... that is, 60% per month! But the accounting
rules made it "cheaper" to do that, no matter where the money goes.
And the equipment, a computer system, would have been put on a 10 year
depreciation schedule. A severe case of unreality.

OBTW, that company is long gone, and they were a Fortune 500 player
when this was going on.


Do you think people are willing to pay extra for all this? They will,
one way or the other.
Yes they will. And eventually, they'll embrace it. Because there will
be little option.

That I disagree with. The growth of podcasts, satellite radio, etc.,
will fill the void. For the longest time, I felt that radio would
endure, because of the low amount of infrastructure to keep it going.
I didn't count on the sheer stupidity of people behind radio.


We're not in disagreement here. There will be options to Radio. There
ARE options to Radio. My point was that for those who choose Radio,
there will be little option but to embrace HD. And those who choose
Radio will embrace it.


As to the sheer stupidity...I can tell you from my 4 decades + of
experience on the inside...that hasn't changed. It's always been stupid
on the inside.





Eventually, that noise will die down. Look at cable. Bitching there,
too. And lots of it. Paying for TV? Are you nuts?

Have you seen cable bills lately? Dish? Satellite Radio?

Yes, I have. But cable has gone far beyond providing community access
to clean local TV pictures -- cable is clogged with networks
unavailable on broadcast TV.


As will Radio soon be clogged with things not found on Radio today.


Even so, there are people who simply have cut the cord to the cable
companies and simply rent/buy movies or don't have TVs. They are a
small minority, but they are there.


But because they are a small minority, they don't matter to the Cable
Companies. Or Satellite Companies.

So it is with Radio. Small numbers, even when large if taken in
aggregation, do not matter. Because the numbers are small locally.




Will the public pay for HD Radio. Sure they will. By the time you
fully dress an iPod system, you can drop half a kilobuck. Doesn't seem
to be slowing things down. HD Radio, especially, when there is no
option, will sell. At least on FM.

FM is the only place where the model even remotely makes sense. But
HD FM, taking advantage of the extremely wideband nature of FMBCB,
will be too greedy to just do it better -- it will fit multiple
streams into that bandwidth until they all sound like crap... like the
gas station that waters its gas down until the customers scream.


No argument there.



We're simply witnessing the death of radio.

Obituaries may be premature.


Time will tell. This message will last in archives that long, so
people like Edwardo can point and laugh in 10 years after radio grows
under his mercenary hand.

But my money is riding against it.


I'd hedge that bet, if I were you.

David Eduardo wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:41:58 GMT, "David Eduardo"
wrote:



No, the HD-2 channels are separate.


OK, Mr. Smarty Pants Communist; what's on KROQ's second HD channel?

I have no idea. It was active when I scanned last week, but I am in Chicago
and my HD radio is in LA.

Chicago? Give the clowns at WBBM a call and tell them to shut their damn IBOC
off!

IBOC = QRM

dxAce
Michigan
USA

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


David Eduardo wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:41:58 GMT, "David Eduardo"
wrote:



No, the HD-2 channels are separate.


OK, Mr. Smarty Pants Communist; what's on KROQ's second HD channel?

I have no idea. It was active when I scanned last week, but I am in
Chicago
and my HD radio is in LA.

Chicago? Give the clowns at WBBM a call and tell them to shut their damn
IBOC
off!

IBOC = QRM

The analog signal sounds pretty good. Since it seems every orthopedic
surgeon in the world is here today, maybe we could have a splint applied to
your fractured perspective on reality.

Suppose all the radio stations switch to iboc = In Behest Of Commie,fed
fascist govt.What happens to our Analog radios then? Way I see
it,concerning In Behest Of Commie,fed fascist govt = iboc,there will be
a lot of fed govt Commies making a lot of money.
cuhulin

wrote in message
...
Suppose all the radio stations switch to iboc = In Behest Of Commie,fed
fascist govt.What happens to our Analog radios then? Way I see
it,concerning In Behest Of Commie,fed fascist govt = iboc,there will be
a lot of fed govt Commies making a lot of money.

HD, like FM stereo, is backwards compatible. You hear an analog signal on
current radios, and it detects and switches to the HD signal on an HD radio.

David Eduardo wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


David Eduardo wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 15:41:58 GMT, "David Eduardo"
wrote:



No, the HD-2 channels are separate.


OK, Mr. Smarty Pants Communist; what's on KROQ's second HD channel?

I have no idea. It was active when I scanned last week, but I am in
Chicago
and my HD radio is in LA.

Chicago? Give the clowns at WBBM a call and tell them to shut their damn
IBOC
off!

IBOC = QRM

The analog signal sounds pretty good. Since it seems every orthopedic
surgeon in the world is here today, maybe we could have a splint applied to
your fractured perspective on reality.

Fractured? WBBM's IBOC (QRM) signal renders 790 unlistenable here.

That's reality, no matter which way you decide to slice, dice, or spin it.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

"dxAce" wrote in message
...

Fractured? WBBM's IBOC (QRM) signal renders 790 unlistenable here.

Most likely the 790 signal is not supposed to cover your area with a
listenable (and thus protected) signal. If you are referring to the 790 in
Saginaw, it is not protected to Grand Rapids.

That's reality, no matter which way you decide to slice, dice, or spin it.

Yep, radio is moving on. You aren't.

David Eduardo wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...

Fractured? WBBM's IBOC (QRM) signal renders 790 unlistenable here.

Most likely the 790 signal is not supposed to cover your area with a
listenable (and thus protected) signal. If you are referring to the 790 in
Saginaw, it is not protected to Grand Rapids.

That's reality, no matter which way you decide to slice, dice, or spin it.

Yep, radio is moving on. You aren't.

Yep, taking up 3 channels is really 'moving on'.

LMFAO

dxAce
Michigan
USA

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
. com...

wrote in message
...
Suppose all the radio stations switch to iboc = In Behest Of Commie,fed
fascist govt.What happens to our Analog radios then? Way I see
it,concerning In Behest Of Commie,fed fascist govt = iboc,there will be
a lot of fed govt Commies making a lot of money.

HD, like FM stereo, is backwards compatible. You hear an analog signal on
current radios, and it detects and switches to the HD signal on an HD
radio.



"Even Mr. Struble of iBiquity put the most optimistic date for an analog
shutdown as 12 years from now, though he thought that was unlikely."

By the way I read this, Bob Struble, President, CEO and Chairman of iBiquity
Digital Corporation, is anticipating an analog shutdown sometime after 2018.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/28/te...gewanted=print

So, please reassure us. Tell us Bob Struble was misquoted by the New York
Times. Tell us analog radio will remain for HD radio receivers to be
compatible with.

Just saying HD radio is currently compatible with analog doesn't really
address the point, does it?

Frank Dresser

"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...
So, please reassure us. Tell us Bob Struble was misquoted by the New York
Times. Tell us analog radio will remain for HD radio receivers to be
compatible with.

I took the context of the post I replied to te be "today" and not 12 years
in the future. By tha6t time, most of today's analog receivers will be gone,
irrespective of the nature of broadcasting over a decade from now.

Just saying HD radio is currently compatible with analog doesn't really
address the point, does it?

Sure it does. How many electronic devices that are 12 years old are
currently being used in the average household? R-390's don't count, btw.