"Eric F. Richards" wrote in message
...
"David Eduardo" wrote:



Interstates are elevated,

...if you mean "by 15 feet above the original grade," then maybe.
That's as stupid a generalization as I've *ever* heard. But I've come
to expect that out of this thread.

Interstates are elevated, and that is why the FCC will not allow field
strength to be measured there. In fact, reception on perfectly tuned FM
antennas in cars on interstates is totally atypical. Ask any broadcast
engineer.

Nearly all reported listening to FMs occurs inside the 64 dbu contour.
Research by third parties as well as Arbitron itself where diaries are
compared to coverage maps confirms this is a pattern that has held true
for
decades.

You may put up with DX-quality signals, but the average listener does
not.
This is why AM skywave is not much listened to any mo the quality is
ratty and the reception is inconsistent.

This. Is. Not. DX.

50 miles is not DX.

For many FMs, it is. For a Class IV AM it is.

100 miles is not DX.

For an FM,, it is. For most AMs it is.

Get out of your box and breathe some fresh air, fergawdsakes. You
have an overly simplified model of the world and it doesn't fit
reality. From what you say in this thread I would suggest you do
substantial harm to those stations unlucky enough to hire you.

Yeah, I make them tops in ratings and billing.

But then, consultants are known for doing that in my field, too.

Last station I consulted went #1 in less than a month in a market of 17
million, where there are over 100 other radio staitons. It is #1 today,
after 6 years. Another, in US market 13, was #1 for the entire 20 years I
advised it, an Arbitron record for a Top 50 market FM.

You are DXing, and putting up with come-and-go signals. Listeners are not
DXers. If the signal is not perfect, they don't listen.

These are steady, strong, clean signals.

I have run Langley Rice maps on the main Denver FMs, like KBCO, and there is
no reliable signal capable of being heard on all kinds of radios south of
Monument. Period. there may be small places where reflections occur, but
that is not listenable for the average person. For this reason, the Denver
staitons do not show up in the ratings at that distance, and the FCC can
duplicate the main channel or the adjacents in such areas.

If you were really concerned about clean signals, you'd be screaming
at receiver manufacturers to clean up capture ratios so that the
multipath doesn't garble them to hell and gone.

If this was possible, it would be done. HD solves this, anyway.

Oh, you work with running AM into the ground... never mind...

Yeah, right. the AM I did in that same market 13 went form a 1.8 share to #2
in the market in a little under 2 years.

WHK was THE Top 40 well into the 60's,a nd then was in a battle with WIXY
until the FMs camy. WGRC (the General Cinema staitons) and WNCR killed
both.
CKLW was an afterthought in the 70's in Cleveland.

I'm talking about the 70s. WHK was country in the senventies. I
can't remember a time when it wasn't -- not that there wasn't such a
time, but it was before my time.

WHK, after being sold by the Vails (Plain Dealer) to John Kluge, ws one of
the more famous Top 40's in the USA. "Color Channel 14" was #1 in Cleveland
until the mid-60's when WIXY captured the crown. WHK did not go country
until FM had killed AM for Top 40... it was driven out by FMs.


There is no adjustment. Arbitron must, to keep its accreditation, use
accepted statistical practices.

Accepted and accredited by whom?

Media Ratings Council, set up as an aftermath of a congressional
investigation in the 60's into media ratings. It consists of noted
statisticians and representatives of national advertisers and agencies with
credentials in media research. The audit, done by a team, takes over a month
every year.

If you are measuring listener
density by zip code, of *course* you aren't going to see an impact
outside of the local area.

Each person counts once, whereever they live. This is a proportional sample
at the population and discreet demographic level.

But you cover an enormous amount of territory broadly. All those ones
and twos add up. ...and you throw them out by setting the initial
conditions so poorly.

In the entire Southwest, the skywave listeners of KFI do not reach 10% of
the local, LA and Orange County listening at night, and are less than 2% of
total listening. Since a poll like Arbitron has greater margin of error than
2%, that data is meaningless and no advertiser cares.

Please try to get it: advertisers dictate. They have zero interest in out of
market Am night signals as they do not advertise at night and do not buy
markets from afar anyway.

You want to know the listener density by zip code, and so you get
numbers that are utterly misleading about the overall listener
community.

No, we look at listeners by MSA. Metro LA. Metro Las Vegas, Metro Phoenix,
etc.

In statistics and polling, data which is not
projectable onto a universe is not usable. So there has to be a minimum
level of listening for a station to show up in the printed Arbitrron
list.
still, all subscribers (radio and agencies) get the data that shows that
KFI
got a share of 0.0 in Phoenix on a cume of 2,300 persons.

Who cares? You aren't selling to Phoenix. You're selling to your
listening community. LA first and foremost, everyone second. If you
can sell to someone who can use LA companies for something -- by mail
order, by phone order, by web page, by whatever -- you still *sell*.

But if the advertiser does not care, it is valueless. It can not be
monetized, so it is ignored.

The fact is, that
is so little that no advertiser or station would ever care... when the #1
station in Phoenix has 100 or 200 times that listening reach.

But you. Shouldn't. Target. Phoenix. I don't give a crap what
Phoenix thinks. I *do* give a crap about what my listening
demographic thinks, be they in Phoenix or at some desert intersection.
If they buy what you advertise, then you are making money.

No, we make money from selling ads to advertisers. Advertisers do not
advertise for out of LA on LA staitons, or out of Phoenix on Phoenix
stations. They buy each market locally, andonly the high rated stations.


You know, I trust, that advertisers only buy the very top stations in
their
target demographics?

But you are measuring geographics, not demographics. By that
standard, the dense high-rises are better targets than suburbia.

No, markets are measured by a proportional sample inside the counties that
make up the market. An effort is made to sample within the market in
proportion to population by zone, too, in many markets.


You already stated you are inside the Denver metro. You have dozens and
dozens of local stations. Including KFI.

No, I'm not, and I didn't state that. I'm outside of Denver Metro.
I'm in Ft. Collins -- Greeley by your numbers. Yet anything beyond
grocery shopping I do in Denver and Boulder because the selection and
quality is better. I think I've stopped in Greeley maybe twice. I
made my first purchase of substance in Ft. Collins two weeks ago.

You are so unique no advertiser will care about you as you do not behave in
a predictable way. Advertising on mass media is bought against masses of
listeners or viewers or readers. All advertisers know that reach is never
100% and they don't care as buys become inefficient when a reach of over
about 70% to 75% is attempted.

But... whatever. I'm sitting herre arguing with a calculator, for
gawdssake. You just keep pretending the world fits your model -- you
can't even get it out of your head long enough to *think* for a
second.

I KNOW how advertisers buy, and know how to keep buyers happy, which is by
providing large, local audiences all over the USA.

You will be the doom of over the air broadcasting. Check back in 10
years; we'll see how the health of the industry has changed in the
last decade.

Well, I doubt it. In fact, last year I was given an award for putting the
first FM in northern South America on the air when no stations were on the
band for 1000 miles in any direction. The award calls me a "pioneer" and
"visionary." What have you done except snipe?