Geomagnetic flip
 

http://physicsweb.org
How would a Geomagnetic flip of Earth's Poles affect radio broadcasting
and receiving?
cuhulin

Geomagnetic flip
 

A consideration of Earth's magnetic vector will help us predict the
affect on the radio bands.

In between the period of vector direction up and vector direction down
we will have a short period of vector magnitude zero; during which
Earth's cosmic radiation shield will vanish.

Only those short wave personalities whose listeners happen to be
wearing protective tinfoil hats will have an audience which survives
the conflagration.

So. for example, the Brother Stairs and the Rush Limbaugh programs
should be among the few which survive the pole flip.

Geomagnetic flip
 

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:29:15 -0600, wrote:

http://physicsweb.org
How would a Geomagnetic flip of Earth's Poles affect radio broadcasting
and receiving?
cuhulin

The water will go down the toilet in the opposite direction. You'll
have to use your starter to turn off your car.

Geomagnetic flip
 

On 2006-03-23, David wrote:
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:29:15 -0600, wrote:

http://physicsweb.org
How would a Geomagnetic flip of Earth's Poles affect radio broadcasting
and receiving?
cuhulin

The water will go down the toilet in the opposite direction. You'll
have to use your starter to turn off your car.

You will also have to install all batteries in the reverse direction.

Geomagnetic flip
 

The water will go down the toilet in the opposite direction. You'll
have to use your starter to turn off your car.

Not that this has anything to do with either magnetism or coriolis -
but NEITHER of these factors affects the way your water goes down the
drain. Watre is not magnetic, and coriolis acts on far too large a
scale to affect small-scale circulation. The shape of the basin and
any manual force one may exert on the fluid are virtually the only
things that determine whether the imparted rotation is clockwise or
counterclockwise. That's a fact.

Bruce Jensen

Geomagnetic flip
 

On 23 Mar 2006 07:24:17 -0800, "bpnjensen"
wrote:

The water will go down the toilet in the opposite direction. You'll
have to use your starter to turn off your car.

Not that this has anything to do with either magnetism or coriolis -
but NEITHER of these factors affects the way your water goes down the
drain. Watre is not magnetic, and coriolis acts on far too large a
scale to affect small-scale circulation. The shape of the basin and
any manual force one may exert on the fluid are virtually the only
things that determine whether the imparted rotation is clockwise or
counterclockwise. That's a fact.

Bruce Jensen

Not entirely true. If the basin is perfectly symmetrical and the
water is allowed to dampen out all vortices from the filling process
(i.e. allowed to rest for a day or two) the Coriolis Effect does make
it drain counterclockwise. It works the same way all over the globe.

Geomagnetic flip
 

David wrote:

On 23 Mar 2006 07:24:17 -0800, "bpnjensen"
wrote:

The water will go down the toilet in the opposite direction. You'll
have to use your starter to turn off your car.

Not that this has anything to do with either magnetism or coriolis -
but NEITHER of these factors affects the way your water goes down the
drain. Watre is not magnetic, and coriolis acts on far too large a
scale to affect small-scale circulation. The shape of the basin and
any manual force one may exert on the fluid are virtually the only
things that determine whether the imparted rotation is clockwise or
counterclockwise. That's a fact.

Bruce Jensen

Not entirely true. If the basin is perfectly symmetrical and the
water is allowed to dampen out all vortices from the filling process
(i.e. allowed to rest for a day or two) the Coriolis Effect does make
it drain counterclockwise. It works the same way all over the globe.

Doesn't water going down a drain form a vortice that spins clockwise in the
northern hemisphere and counter-clockwise in the southern hemisphere?

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Geomagnetic flip
 

In article ,
dxAce wrote:

David wrote:

On 23 Mar 2006 07:24:17 -0800, "bpnjensen"
wrote:

The water will go down the toilet in the opposite direction. You'll
have to use your starter to turn off your car.

Not that this has anything to do with either magnetism or coriolis -
but NEITHER of these factors affects the way your water goes down the
drain. Watre is not magnetic, and coriolis acts on far too large a
scale to affect small-scale circulation. The shape of the basin and
any manual force one may exert on the fluid are virtually the only
things that determine whether the imparted rotation is clockwise or
counterclockwise. That's a fact.

Bruce Jensen

Not entirely true. If the basin is perfectly symmetrical and the
water is allowed to dampen out all vortices from the filling process
(i.e. allowed to rest for a day or two) the Coriolis Effect does make
it drain counterclockwise. It works the same way all over the globe.

Doesn't water going down a drain form a vortice that spins clockwise in the
northern hemisphere and counter-clockwise in the southern hemisphere?

You got that right Ace.
http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/fw/crls.rxml

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Geomagnetic flip
 

In article .com,
"bpnjensen" wrote:

The water will go down the toilet in the opposite direction. You'll
have to use your starter to turn off your car.

Not that this has anything to do with either magnetism or coriolis -
but NEITHER of these factors affects the way your water goes down the
drain. Watre is not magnetic, and coriolis acts on far too large a
scale to affect small-scale circulation. The shape of the basin and
any manual force one may exert on the fluid are virtually the only
things that determine whether the imparted rotation is clockwise or
counterclockwise. That's a fact.

This is a pull your leg thread. Get it?

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Geomagnetic flip
 

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:07:08 -0500, dxAce
wrote:




Doesn't water going down a drain form a vortice that spins clockwise in the
northern hemisphere and counter-clockwise in the southern hemisphere?

Anticlockwise everywhere.

Geomagnetic flip
 

dxAce and Telamon are right.(five Gold Stars for y'all) That's the way
it works in my bathtub too.Ships going from America to Europe have to
steer a slightly Southerly direction (I think it's Southerly,South is
always best) to get to their port(s) of destination.
cuhulin

Geomagnetic flip
 

David wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:07:08 -0500, dxAce
wrote:




Doesn't water going down a drain form a vortice that spins clockwise in the
northern hemisphere and counter-clockwise in the southern hemisphere?

Anticlockwise everywhere.

What ever you say, oh box canyon cloistered one.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Geomagnetic flip
 

In article
,
Telamon wrote:

In article ,
dxAce wrote:

David wrote:

On 23 Mar 2006 07:24:17 -0800, "bpnjensen"
wrote:

The water will go down the toilet in the opposite direction. You'll
have to use your starter to turn off your car.

Not that this has anything to do with either magnetism or coriolis -
but NEITHER of these factors affects the way your water goes down the
drain. Watre is not magnetic, and coriolis acts on far too large a
scale to affect small-scale circulation. The shape of the basin and
any manual force one may exert on the fluid are virtually the only
things that determine whether the imparted rotation is clockwise or
counterclockwise. That's a fact.

Bruce Jensen

Not entirely true. If the basin is perfectly symmetrical and the
water is allowed to dampen out all vortices from the filling process
(i.e. allowed to rest for a day or two) the Coriolis Effect does make
it drain counterclockwise. It works the same way all over the globe.

Doesn't water going down a drain form a vortice that spins clockwise in the
northern hemisphere and counter-clockwise in the southern hemisphere?

You got that right Ace.
http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/fw/crls.rxml

Oh yeah. At the equator no twist, the force is zero.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Geomagnetic flip
 

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:00:16 -0500, dxAce
wrote:



David wrote:

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:07:08 -0500, dxAce
wrote:




Doesn't water going down a drain form a vortice that spins clockwise in the
northern hemisphere and counter-clockwise in the southern hemisphere?

Anticlockwise everywhere.

What ever you say, oh box canyon cloistered one.

http://www.ems.psu.edu/~fraser/Bad/BadCoriolis.html

http://www.snopes.com/science/coriolis.htm#add

Geomagnetic flip
 

Not entirely true. If the basin is perfectly symmetrical and the
water is allowed to dampen out all vortices from the filling process
(i.e. allowed to rest for a day or two) the Coriolis Effect does make
it drain counterclockwise. It works the same way all over the globe.

You'd be hard pressed to find any usual basin made by the hand of man
with perfection enough to achieve what you describe.

There have been some scientifically controlled experiments along these
lines to see if it worked - not so much because the effect of the
Coriolis motion was in doubt, but because they wanted to see if they
could design an experiment precisely enough to do the job. They did -
but yes, it took several days, and a bunch of money - more than the
value of your typical toilet or kitchen sink.

I still stand by my original statement. In small basins of imperfect
design, it makes no significant difference at all. Coriolis is
typically appreciable only on large scales where the local effect of
the earth's rotation *relative to the scale of the motion of the fluid
being acted upon* is large - like mesoscale (~100 miles in breadth) and
larger. It also helps that air is far less massive than water.
Oceanic currents respond far more to sea floor- and continental-shape
than coriolis.

Bruce Jensen

Geomagnetic flip
 

No, it doesn't. The coriolis effect at the scale described by dxAce is
too small. This is one of those scientific myths that die REALLY hard.

Bruce Jensen

Geomagnetic flip
 

Oh yeah. At the equator no twist, the force is zero.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California

This is true, but again, only on large scale circulation - not on sinks
and toilets.

Bruce Jensen

Geomagnetic flip
 

Oh yeah. At the equator no twist, the force is zero.
--
Telamon
Ventura, California

This is true, but again, only on large scale circulation - not on sinks
and toilets.

Bruce Jensen

Geomagnetic flip
 

Anticlockwise everywhere.

What ever you say, oh box canyon cloistered one.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

No, the coriolis motion in the southern hemisphere *is* clockwise, as
opposed to that north of the equator. *Still* only for large scale
motion.

Bruce Jensen

Geomagnetic flip
 

This is a pull your leg thread. Get it?
--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Not until you told me! I know too many people who truly believe that
the earth's spin affects their homegrown whirlpools...the misconception
is common.

David seems utterly convinced, and has the s & n hemishere rotations
wrong to boot.

BJ

Geomagnetic flip
 

On 23 Mar 2006 13:46:27 -0800, "bpnjensen"
wrote:


Not until you told me! I know too many people who truly believe that
the earth's spin affects their homegrown whirlpools...the misconception
is common.

David seems utterly convinced, and has the s & n hemishere rotations
wrong to boot.

BJ

So the paper I posted was wrong. Big whoop.

http://www.npmoc.navy.mil/jtwc/satshots/sh1806sair.jpg

Geomagnetic flip
 

So the paper I posted was wrong. Big whoop.

It is a *big whoop* if you are trying to make a point.

http://www.npmoc.navy.mil/jtwc/satshots/sh1806sair.jpg

This looks like a tropical cyclone in the s. hemisphere off the
northeast coast of Australia - is that right? Nice picture.

In any case, it is seen spinning clockwise at the surface, just what
one would expect s. of the equator. At higher altitudes, cloud
moisture is often seen spinning off in the anticyclonic direction
(direction opposite the spin of the surface cyclone) for it's
respective hemisphere - but that's because the outflow up high
represents a high pressure area (which is naturally anticyclonic) as
opposed to the surface low of the storm.

Bruce Jensen

Geomagnetic flip
 

When I take my bath tonight,I will check it out.Yesireee,,,,, I will sit
there and watch which way that old dirty bath water swirls and swirls
around and around,,,,,,,,,

Get a Compass and mount it outside somewhere and line it up North and
watch it and see if there is a Geomagnetic flip flop going on.
That's the way the Mop flops,boys and girls.Hey,I did a year in Vietnam
in 1964,the first three months at Shannon Wright Compound
www.114thaviationcompany.com near Vinh Long untill I ticked off a
certain Major Rosa (I guess he didn't like it that I requested to go to
Tan Nhut a couple of times to get my rotten teeth worked on) and he had
me transfered to Tan Son Nhut (Thanks,Major Rosa,may the bird of
happiness fly up your nose too near Saigon. www.tsna.org

I was about nienty miles North of the Equator,does that count?
Howsomever,us lowly peons didn't have the luxury of any bathtubs,it was
open showers in our Latrines.
cuhulin

Geomagnetic flip
 

"Hatfield" wrote in
ups.com:

A consideration of Earth's magnetic vector will help us predict the
affect on the radio bands.

In between the period of vector direction up and vector direction down
we will have a short period of vector magnitude zero; during which
Earth's cosmic radiation shield will vanish.

Only those short wave personalities whose listeners happen to be
wearing protective tinfoil hats will have an audience which survives
the conflagration.

So. for example, the Brother Stairs and the Rush Limbaugh programs
should be among the few which survive the pole flip.



No. Limbaugh would loose his audience. Air America would end up in the
number one spot with Chuck Harder at number two.

SC

Geomagnetic flip
 

At what time (Central Standard Time Zone,Mississippi Time Zone) of the
day and which days of the week and which Shortwave Frequency is Chuck
Harder on the air?
cuhulin

Geomagnetic flip
 

In article . com,
"bpnjensen" wrote:

Oh yeah. At the equator no twist, the force is zero.


This is true, but again, only on large scale circulation - not on sinks
and toilets.

The scale does is not a factor of the Coriolis force. The magnitude of
the force is constrained by latitude and speed of matter. It is a force
stemming from the inertia of mass having a rotational spin placed on it
by the motion of the earth so it affects all matter even the water in
your sink.

If you don't believe me then you can do this experiment yourself. Fill a
sink with water and after it is very still open the drain without
disturbing which way the water spins down the drain. Do it a couple of
times and you will notice a tendency for the water to spin clockwise.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Geomagnetic flip
 

On 23 Mar 2006 14:11:31 -0800, "bpnjensen"
wrote:

So the paper I posted was wrong. Big whoop.

It is a *big whoop* if you are trying to make a point.

http://www.npmoc.navy.mil/jtwc/satshots/sh1806sair.jpg

This looks like a tropical cyclone in the s. hemisphere off the
northeast coast of Australia - is that right? Nice picture.

In any case, it is seen spinning clockwise at the surface, just what
one would expect s. of the equator. At higher altitudes, cloud
moisture is often seen spinning off in the anticyclonic direction
(direction opposite the spin of the surface cyclone) for it's
respective hemisphere - but that's because the outflow up high
represents a high pressure area (which is naturally anticyclonic) as
opposed to the surface low of the storm.

Bruce Jensen

Gawd I'm glad we got that cleared up. The article said ''cyclonic''.
Now I know what they mean.

Geomagnetic flip
 

In article .com,
"bpnjensen" wrote:

Not entirely true. If the basin is perfectly symmetrical and the
water is allowed to dampen out all vortices from the filling process
(i.e. allowed to rest for a day or two) the Coriolis Effect does make
it drain counterclockwise. It works the same way all over the globe.

You'd be hard pressed to find any usual basin made by the hand of man
with perfection enough to achieve what you describe.

There have been some scientifically controlled experiments along these
lines to see if it worked - not so much because the effect of the
Coriolis motion was in doubt, but because they wanted to see if they
could design an experiment precisely enough to do the job. They did -
but yes, it took several days, and a bunch of money - more than the
value of your typical toilet or kitchen sink.

I still stand by my original statement. In small basins of imperfect
design, it makes no significant difference at all. Coriolis is
typically appreciable only on large scales where the local effect of
the earth's rotation *relative to the scale of the motion of the fluid
being acted upon* is large - like mesoscale (~100 miles in breadth) and
larger. It also helps that air is far less massive than water.
Oceanic currents respond far more to sea floor- and continental-shape
than coriolis.

If you stand by your original statement then you would be wrong. The
Corolis effect is small but real. The water is your sink or major storms
are affected by forces much stronger then the Corolis force so it does
not determine the way water and winds spin but it does determine a
tendency for them to spin. If you are careful that the water is
motionless you will see a tendency for it to spin in one direction going
down the drain.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Geomagnetic flip
 

bpnjensen wrote:

The water will go down the toilet in the opposite direction. You'll
have to use your starter to turn off your car.

Not that this has anything to do with either magnetism or coriolis -
but NEITHER of these factors affects the way your water goes down the
drain. Watre is not magnetic, and coriolis acts on far too large a
scale to affect small-scale circulation. The shape of the basin and
any manual force one may exert on the fluid are virtually the only
things that determine whether the imparted rotation is clockwise or
counterclockwise. That's a fact.

Bruce Jensen


I hear the Corleoni effect determines which direction the horse's head
lands.





mike

Geomagnetic flip
 

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:00:27 GMT, Telamon
wrote:

In article
,
Telamon wrote:

In article ,
dxAce wrote:

David wrote:

On 23 Mar 2006 07:24:17 -0800, "bpnjensen"
wrote:

The water will go down the toilet in the opposite direction. You'll
have to use your starter to turn off your car.

Not that this has anything to do with either magnetism or coriolis -
but NEITHER of these factors affects the way your water goes down the
drain. Watre is not magnetic, and coriolis acts on far too large a
scale to affect small-scale circulation. The shape of the basin and
any manual force one may exert on the fluid are virtually the only
things that determine whether the imparted rotation is clockwise or
counterclockwise. That's a fact.

Bruce Jensen

Not entirely true. If the basin is perfectly symmetrical and the
water is allowed to dampen out all vortices from the filling process
(i.e. allowed to rest for a day or two) the Coriolis Effect does make
it drain counterclockwise. It works the same way all over the globe.

Doesn't water going down a drain form a vortice that spins clockwise in the
northern hemisphere and counter-clockwise in the southern hemisphere?

You got that right Ace.
http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/fw/crls.rxml

Oh yeah. At the equator no twist, the force is zero.


H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E ALERT!!

Geomagnetic flip
 

The scale does is not a factor of the Coriolis force. The magnitude of
the force is constrained by latitude and speed of matter. It is a force

stemming from the inertia of mass having a rotational spin placed on it

by the motion of the earth so it affects all matter even the water in
your sink.

The scale does not affect the apparent "force" - but the Coriolis
effect is only significant with large scale circulation, mostly because
the larger scale allows the time necessary for the earth's spin to have
its apparent effect. For small containers under normal circumstances,
it is still mathematically insignificant.

If you don't believe me then you can do this experiment yourself. Fill a
sink with water and after it is very still open the drain without
disturbing which way the water spins down the drain. Do it a couple of
times and you will notice a tendency for the water to spin clockwise.

I have tried this. Unfortunately, I do not have a perfectly round
sink, nor was I able to get a perfectly still pool (we have enough
close truck traffic so that ripples can appear at most any time in a
basin of water). The results were inconclusive - but the results bore
on whether the system was perfect enough, not whether the Coriolis
effect is real (it is). Besides all that, if the Coriolis effect were
large, the rotation would show up fairly quickly even when the drain
remained closed. The fact that it requires both a perfectly still pool
and the added energy of a draining basin to make a showing says
something about its magnitude.

One interesting fact about it that nobody grabs onto is that in the N.
hemisphere, the Coriolis vector does not shift a wind to the left
(counterclockwise) but rather to the right (Clockwise). It is the
combination of the wind direction, its friction with the ground, the
locations of the high and low pressure areas, and the Coriolis vector
that determines rotation. Without the potential energy added to the
system by the pressure gradient, even at medium scales the Coriolis
vector would have a relatively small effect...and the effect would be
clockwise (!).

Bruce Jensen