I'm constructing a vertical antenna and I'm about to start laying radials.

F/O will be 40 through 15 meters. The vertical element will be 26 feet
in height. There will be a remote controlled antenna coupler mounted at
the base. I'm using 18 AWG magnet wire for the radials. The radials
will be short (no options here) but there will be a lot of them. I plan
on about 18" of separation between the radial tips and I have more than
enough radial wire to work with. The radials will be stapled directly
to the outer surface of the planet.

I could cut the radials to be the same length, forming a circular
pattern on the ground. Or, I could vary the lengths to take advantage
of the available land, which would result in a square pattern on the
ground. In either case, the antenna would be in the center of the
radial field. And, in either case, opposing radials would be of the
same length.

The square radial field would allow some of the radials to be longer
which seems desireable. The circular radial field would be, well,
circular..

The circular pattern radials would be about 25' long. The longest of
the square pattern radials would be something like 35' long. (Assuming
my high school geometry isn't as hazy as everything else from that long
ago era...)

The radials are laying on the ground, and non-resonant, does it matter
if they're all the same length? Is the symmetry important? If I go
with a square pattern how careful must I be with the radial lengths? Is
this a measurement to be made with the hairy eyeball or do I need to get
out measuring tools?

I'm inclined to just cover the available ground with as much copper as I
can and call it a day. This would result in a square-ish pattern on the
ground with opposing radials being similar in length. Is this
inclination fraught with peril?
--
73,
Hank

I'm inclined to just cover the available ground with as much copper as
I can and call it a day. This would result in a square-ish pattern on
the ground with opposing radials being similar in length. Is this
inclination fraught with peril?


Your inclination is the correct way to go.


Ed K7AAT

Ed wrote:
Your inclination is the correct way to go.

Excellent -- with no dissenting votes cast I have started laying copper.

Thanks for your confirmation.
--
73,
HZ

"Hank Zoeller" wrote in message
...
I'm constructing a vertical antenna and I'm about to start laying radials.

F/O will be 40 through 15 meters. The vertical element will be 26 feet in
height. There will be a remote controlled antenna coupler mounted at the
base. I'm using 18 AWG magnet wire for the radials. The radials will be
short (no options here) but there will be a lot of them. I plan on about
18" of separation between the radial tips and I have more than enough
radial wire to work with. The radials will be stapled directly to the
outer surface of the planet.

--
73,
Hank

Hank,

My understanding of a radial system is it is basically a very conductive
ground. Not so much a counterpoise - you try and make the earth the
counterpoise. Nonetheless, the ground will detune your radials. So, no
matter what length the radial, you have no way of predicting it's resonate
frequency. That will be determined by soil composition and moisture level,
etc. And it will vary from day to day.

I'm not sure, and some one else should chime in, but I am almost certain
that your radials should not be insulated from the ground. Magnet wire is
normally varnished and therefore insulated. Given your plan, chicken wire
would be better, and the cash value of the copper would more than pay for
it.

Jim

KB1NXE

Simple rule for (non resonant) radials in or on the ground:
1. Mo' - da better
2. Longer the better.
3. Better to use (insulated) wire on the surface than buried. Just stretch
it out and let the grass grow over.
4. Water before contest or major DX hunting.
5. Forget the above and set it up on the salty beach.

73 Yuri, K3BU


"James Philopena" wrote in message
news:_chYg.404$AR6.22@trndny02...

"Hank Zoeller" wrote in message
...
I'm constructing a vertical antenna and I'm about to start laying
radials.

F/O will be 40 through 15 meters. The vertical element will be 26 feet
in height. There will be a remote controlled antenna coupler mounted at
the base. I'm using 18 AWG magnet wire for the radials. The radials
will be short (no options here) but there will be a lot of them. I plan
on about 18" of separation between the radial tips and I have more than
enough radial wire to work with. The radials will be stapled directly to
the outer surface of the planet.

--
73,
Hank

Hank,

My understanding of a radial system is it is basically a very conductive
ground. Not so much a counterpoise - you try and make the earth the
counterpoise. Nonetheless, the ground will detune your radials. So, no
matter what length the radial, you have no way of predicting it's resonate
frequency. That will be determined by soil composition and moisture
level, etc. And it will vary from day to day.

I'm not sure, and some one else should chime in, but I am almost certain
that your radials should not be insulated from the ground. Magnet wire is
normally varnished and therefore insulated. Given your plan, chicken wire
would be better, and the cash value of the copper would more than pay for
it.

Jim

KB1NXE

Yuri Blanarovich wrote:
Simple rule for (non resonant) radials in or on the ground:
1. Mo' - da better
2. Longer the better.
3. Better to use (insulated) wire on the surface than buried. Just stretch
it out and let the grass grow over.
4. Water before contest or major DX hunting.
5. Forget the above and set it up on the salty beach.

All good advice. Well, except for #5. Can't afford beachfront property!
--
73,
HZ

What? Haven't got a buck?
Check out www.TeslaRadio.org
we got some 200 acres of salty marshy QTH with two story building and 40
rhombics for a $1. We are looking for extra hands and brains to help with
restoration and operating.
I just put some more pictures and partial drawing of antenna farm (under
location -maps - site survey).

73 Yuri, K3BU.us


"Hank Zoeller" wrote in message
...
Yuri Blanarovich wrote:
Simple rule for (non resonant) radials in or on the ground:
1. Mo' - da better
2. Longer the better.
3. Better to use (insulated) wire on the surface than buried. Just
stretch it out and let the grass grow over.
4. Water before contest or major DX hunting.
5. Forget the above and set it up on the salty beach.

All good advice. Well, except for #5. Can't afford beachfront property!
--
73,
HZ

On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 21:14:55 -0400, "Yuri Blanarovich"
wrote:

What? Haven't got a buck?
Check out www.TeslaRadio.org
we got some 200 acres of salty marshy QTH with two story building and 40
rhombics for a $1. We are looking for extra hands and brains to help with
restoration and operating.
I just put some more pictures and partial drawing of antenna farm (under
location -maps - site survey).

73 Yuri, K3BU.us

Hello Yuri,

Just checked out the Tesla site--veerrry impressive! And congratulations on
founding the Tesla Radio Foundation--Bravo! Tesla was indeed a great contributor
to our art and science, and I agree that he has not had the recognition he
deserved. You are performing a splendid service.

And what a great site for a ham station--the old WOO station! Hope you can put
those rhombics back in operation. I've just committed one of the seven deadly
sins--I'm green with envy!

Walt W2DU

James Philopena wrote:
I'm not sure, and some one else should chime in, but I am almost certain
that your radials should not be insulated from the ground. Magnet wire is
normally varnished and therefore insulated. Given your plan, chicken wire
would be better, and the cash value of the copper would more than pay for
it.

Hi Jim,

I'm pretty convinced that magnet wire on the surface is the way to go.
The RF won't have to go through lossy dirt on it's way to the radials
and they'll last for a long time. Chicken wire would rust up pretty fast..

Besides, the magnet wire was nearly free!
--
73,
HZ

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 15:18:07 -0600, Hank Zoeller
wrote:

I'm constructing a vertical antenna and I'm about to start laying radials.

F/O will be 40 through 15 meters. The vertical element will be 26 feet
in height. There will be a remote controlled antenna coupler mounted at
the base. I'm using 18 AWG magnet wire for the radials. The radials
will be short (no options here) but there will be a lot of them. I plan
on about 18" of separation between the radial tips and I have more than
enough radial wire to work with. The radials will be stapled directly
to the outer surface of the planet.

I could cut the radials to be the same length, forming a circular
pattern on the ground. Or, I could vary the lengths to take advantage
of the available land, which would result in a square pattern on the
ground. In either case, the antenna would be in the center of the
radial field. And, in either case, opposing radials would be of the
same length.

The square radial field would allow some of the radials to be longer
which seems desireable. The circular radial field would be, well,
circular..

The circular pattern radials would be about 25' long. The longest of
the square pattern radials would be something like 35' long. (Assuming
my high school geometry isn't as hazy as everything else from that long
ago era...)

The radials are laying on the ground, and non-resonant, does it matter
if they're all the same length? Is the symmetry important? If I go
with a square pattern how careful must I be with the radial lengths? Is
this a measurement to be made with the hairy eyeball or do I need to get
out measuring tools?

I'm inclined to just cover the available ground with as much copper as I
can and call it a day. This would result in a square-ish pattern on the
ground with opposing radials being similar in length. Is this
inclination fraught with peril?

Your project has a lot in common with my ongoing 40-160 meter vertical
project. I am curious about what remote tuner you are planning.

John Ferrell W8CCW