Hello,

I'm in the process of writing a new Windows based audio
recorder and would like to find out how people feel about
some of the features I am thinking of including. If people
who use software VOX recorders could tell me how they feel
about whether some features I am considering adding are
useful, it would help me to make the new software better.

This is an informal survey and I know many people hate
surveys. But if you can help provide some answers to my
questions, I can use this info to make my recorder better. A
competitor can use this info too, to make their product
better. Everybody wins if everyone knows what people expect
to see in a recorder.

I've already published a free VOX recorder for almost 10
years but didn't put many features on it that people have
been asking for since I first wrote it. It was too hard to
modify since it wasn't designed with all the desired
features in mind at the beginning.

-------------------

Here's some of the features I want to add and was wondering
whether these are useful enough for people to want to pay a
small amount for....(if you don't mind helping, I would
really appreciate it).

++++++++ If you could indicate a YES or NO for each feature
I listed that would be a great help.

*** The ability to separate VOX events into separate files
for each event. As well as dividing the files by time-span
or time of day. And of course that requires an
auto-file-naming capability.

*** A Review Button: Pushing a button in order to hear the
last VOX event that was captured. (or the last 30 seconds,
rather). The audio would have to be kept in memory and so it
would have a limited length.

*** A repeating clock/calendar to control automatic starts
and stops like a VCR has.

*** Splitting the stereo content into two mono output files
and allowing a separate VOX setting for each mono output
file.

*** Having the ability to record .wav files with more than 2
stereo channels, (such as 4 channels) I think this might
require MS Direct Show....but am not sure yet.

*** .MP3 file output format....in addition to the native mp3
support MS already has for .WAV files.

*** A spectrum analyzer for viewing on the front panel
during a recording or while monitoring the audio input.

*** A complex looking (busy) style of display with lots of
blinking lights, clocks, meters, log and stats all to make
it look sophisticated like a lot of receiver panels look.

or

*** A simple basic looking display style with nothing but
the very basic controls.

or

*** both types of panel formats with a switch to change
them.

This next question is not an easy one, but I'm wondering how
much people would pay for a recorder that they think is a
very good piece of softwa

*** $5 to $10 USD price range
*** $10 to $20 USD price range
*** $20 to $50 USD price range
*** above $50 USD if it has everything imaginable included.

Not very scientific, I know....

--------------------------

I didn't include a full feature list here because there are
some things that obviously need to be part of a recorder,
like a log file and an auto-start recording control. But
some of the features I listed will take some effort to
produce and I want to avoid wasting a lot of time writing
code that will not be used much.

Feel free to add the features you need to have that I did
not mention, if you think it'll be widely needed by others
too.

And thanks in advance for helping!

Dave
(Author of Scanner Recorder and Scanner Recorder Pro)

Hi Dave!

I think it's super that you are continuing to enhance your software. Do you
want us to respond in the newsgroup, or do you have an email address you'd
like us to use?

Thanks,
Bill Crocker


"Dave" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I'm in the process of writing a new Windows based audio
recorder and would like to find out how people feel about
some of the features I am thinking of including. If people
who use software VOX recorders could tell me how they feel
about whether some features I am considering adding are
useful, it would help me to make the new software better.

This is an informal survey and I know many people hate
surveys. But if you can help provide some answers to my
questions, I can use this info to make my recorder better. A
competitor can use this info too, to make their product
better. Everybody wins if everyone knows what people expect
to see in a recorder.

I've already published a free VOX recorder for almost 10
years but didn't put many features on it that people have
been asking for since I first wrote it. It was too hard to
modify since it wasn't designed with all the desired
features in mind at the beginning.

-------------------

Here's some of the features I want to add and was wondering
whether these are useful enough for people to want to pay a
small amount for....(if you don't mind helping, I would
really appreciate it).

++++++++ If you could indicate a YES or NO for each feature
I listed that would be a great help.

*** The ability to separate VOX events into separate files
for each event. As well as dividing the files by time-span
or time of day. And of course that requires an
auto-file-naming capability.

*** A Review Button: Pushing a button in order to hear the
last VOX event that was captured. (or the last 30 seconds,
rather). The audio would have to be kept in memory and so it
would have a limited length.

*** A repeating clock/calendar to control automatic starts
and stops like a VCR has.

*** Splitting the stereo content into two mono output files
and allowing a separate VOX setting for each mono output
file.

*** Having the ability to record .wav files with more than 2
stereo channels, (such as 4 channels) I think this might
require MS Direct Show....but am not sure yet.

*** .MP3 file output format....in addition to the native mp3
support MS already has for .WAV files.

*** A spectrum analyzer for viewing on the front panel
during a recording or while monitoring the audio input.

*** A complex looking (busy) style of display with lots of
blinking lights, clocks, meters, log and stats all to make
it look sophisticated like a lot of receiver panels look.

or

*** A simple basic looking display style with nothing but
the very basic controls.

or

*** both types of panel formats with a switch to change
them.

This next question is not an easy one, but I'm wondering how
much people would pay for a recorder that they think is a
very good piece of softwa

*** $5 to $10 USD price range
*** $10 to $20 USD price range
*** $20 to $50 USD price range
*** above $50 USD if it has everything imaginable included.

Not very scientific, I know....

--------------------------

I didn't include a full feature list here because there are
some things that obviously need to be part of a recorder,
like a log file and an auto-start recording control. But
some of the features I listed will take some effort to
produce and I want to avoid wasting a lot of time writing
code that will not be used much.

Feel free to add the features you need to have that I did
not mention, if you think it'll be widely needed by others
too.

And thanks in advance for helping!

Dave
(Author of Scanner Recorder and Scanner Recorder Pro)

I thought it was a great idea as well and prepared an answer via Outlooks
"Reply" function. After pressing "Send" I got a message back saying that
the address had been "rejected by the server". The reply
also said "That domain does not have a proper MX record" whatever that
means. (That sounds serious doesn't it? I mean not having a proper MX
record! I didn't think this was that kind of a place!)

Regardless what "Dave" is planning sounds cool and I'd like him to proceed.
Also to post a suitable e-mail address if he's interested in responses.

Al


"Bill Crocker" wrote in message
...
Hi Dave!

I think it's super that you are continuing to enhance your software. Do
you
want us to respond in the newsgroup, or do you have an email address you'd
like us to use?

Thanks,
Bill Crocker


"Dave" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I'm in the process of writing a new Windows based audio
recorder and would like to find out how people feel about
some of the features I am thinking of including. If people
who use software VOX recorders could tell me how they feel
about whether some features I am considering adding are
useful, it would help me to make the new software better.

This is an informal survey and I know many people hate
surveys. But if you can help provide some answers to my
questions, I can use this info to make my recorder better. A
competitor can use this info too, to make their product
better. Everybody wins if everyone knows what people expect
to see in a recorder.

I've already published a free VOX recorder for almost 10
years but didn't put many features on it that people have
been asking for since I first wrote it. It was too hard to
modify since it wasn't designed with all the desired
features in mind at the beginning.

-------------------

Here's some of the features I want to add and was wondering
whether these are useful enough for people to want to pay a
small amount for....(if you don't mind helping, I would
really appreciate it).

++++++++ If you could indicate a YES or NO for each feature
I listed that would be a great help.

*** The ability to separate VOX events into separate files
for each event. As well as dividing the files by time-span
or time of day. And of course that requires an
auto-file-naming capability.

*** A Review Button: Pushing a button in order to hear the
last VOX event that was captured. (or the last 30 seconds,
rather). The audio would have to be kept in memory and so it
would have a limited length.

*** A repeating clock/calendar to control automatic starts
and stops like a VCR has.

*** Splitting the stereo content into two mono output files
and allowing a separate VOX setting for each mono output
file.

*** Having the ability to record .wav files with more than 2
stereo channels, (such as 4 channels) I think this might
require MS Direct Show....but am not sure yet.

*** .MP3 file output format....in addition to the native mp3
support MS already has for .WAV files.

*** A spectrum analyzer for viewing on the front panel
during a recording or while monitoring the audio input.

*** A complex looking (busy) style of display with lots of
blinking lights, clocks, meters, log and stats all to make
it look sophisticated like a lot of receiver panels look.

or

*** A simple basic looking display style with nothing but
the very basic controls.

or

*** both types of panel formats with a switch to change
them.

This next question is not an easy one, but I'm wondering how
much people would pay for a recorder that they think is a
very good piece of softwa

*** $5 to $10 USD price range
*** $10 to $20 USD price range
*** $20 to $50 USD price range
*** above $50 USD if it has everything imaginable included.

Not very scientific, I know....

--------------------------

I didn't include a full feature list here because there are
some things that obviously need to be part of a recorder,
like a log file and an auto-start recording control. But
some of the features I listed will take some effort to
produce and I want to avoid wasting a lot of time writing
code that will not be used much.

Feel free to add the features you need to have that I did
not mention, if you think it'll be widely needed by others
too.

And thanks in advance for helping!

Dave
(Author of Scanner Recorder and Scanner Recorder Pro)

If you'd like to send an email instead of post it here then
you can send to

[email protected] (without the dashes). The
address in the header is a nospam (fake) address as you can
see.

Thanks to all who can help answer this survey. I usually get
lots of suggestions after the fact, from users who are
trying the software for the first time. But I really am
trying to get the features written down that are important
to people BEFORE I have finished the project, not after. I
already have several hundred letters to sift through, but
today things might be different than when these letters were
first sent to me years ago. So I am trying to ask about a
couple of features that are not easy to write in the code
and I want to see if they are worth the trouble. In
particular, the splitting of stereo into two files is one of
them and the review/playback last n minuets on demand is the
other feature I'm most concerned about.

I realize that there's other software that does the same
thing as mine. I don't think the market for audio recorders
that have special capabilities is saturated yet. I'm still
seeing hundreds of downloads per day. I had 2803 downloads
of the free version of Scanrec last month. And that's after
leaving the recorder to rot in the wind for several years.
This thing's been available and unchanging for many years
and there's still demand for it. So if there's still that
much traffic there must be some room for a better version
that has more features. And since people pay for Recall with
its list of features, surely someone will want something
that has more features than Recall has. Frankly I haven't
looked at Recall in a long time. I bought a license a few
years ago. So it might already have everything I mentioned
in my survey.

Anyway, I'm hoping people WILL answer the questions and help
me to get the impression on whether the features I mentioned
are needed or just a waste of time. I need to know before I
start doing that extra work, not after I start publishing
the beta version.

thanks,
Dave

Ok, It would be nice to have it record in mp3 format, and be able to set the
bit rate of the file, a time stamp and freq stamp would be nice to
have....... And having it put the recordings into folders of your choosing
would be extra nice... The time stamp and freq stamp could be put into the
id3 tags, so there is already a place in the mp3 file to put it...

Having it compile a microsoft database for you would be a bit arduous to
program, but would certainly be a nice feature, hit counters, and of course,
putting the tones info into the mp3 tag would be super, etc. writing such a
program under vb6 , or net if you are into it, would probably involve
writing a series of activeX controls, then using them to control and
3extract the data for these various functions. development will be faster,
and the program will be easier to maintain in the long run, since the
functions will be "encapsulated" in the activeX controls....
For the database and logging functions , a good class module would
undoubtedly do, nothing more will be needed, as we are not looking for
"real-time" display of these functions anyway..

the system clock, of course, can be tapped for the time/date info , and
quite easily.

I wish I had time to write some of this stuff for you, but with all the
projects i currently have on the fire, it's simply too demanding of time and
resources. Maybe when winter sets in again....
"Dave" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I'm in the process of writing a new Windows based audio
recorder and would like to find out how people feel about
some of the features I am thinking of including. If people
who use software VOX recorders could tell me how they feel
about whether some features I am considering adding are
useful, it would help me to make the new software better.

This is an informal survey and I know many people hate
surveys. But if you can help provide some answers to my
questions, I can use this info to make my recorder better. A
competitor can use this info too, to make their product
better. Everybody wins if everyone knows what people expect
to see in a recorder.

I've already published a free VOX recorder for almost 10
years but didn't put many features on it that people have
been asking for since I first wrote it. It was too hard to
modify since it wasn't designed with all the desired
features in mind at the beginning.

-------------------

Here's some of the features I want to add and was wondering
whether these are useful enough for people to want to pay a
small amount for....(if you don't mind helping, I would
really appreciate it).

++++++++ If you could indicate a YES or NO for each feature
I listed that would be a great help.

*** The ability to separate VOX events into separate files
for each event. As well as dividing the files by time-span
or time of day. And of course that requires an
auto-file-naming capability.

*** A Review Button: Pushing a button in order to hear the
last VOX event that was captured. (or the last 30 seconds,
rather). The audio would have to be kept in memory and so it
would have a limited length.

*** A repeating clock/calendar to control automatic starts
and stops like a VCR has.

*** Splitting the stereo content into two mono output files
and allowing a separate VOX setting for each mono output
file.

*** Having the ability to record .wav files with more than 2
stereo channels, (such as 4 channels) I think this might
require MS Direct Show....but am not sure yet.

*** .MP3 file output format....in addition to the native mp3
support MS already has for .WAV files.

*** A spectrum analyzer for viewing on the front panel
during a recording or while monitoring the audio input.

*** A complex looking (busy) style of display with lots of
blinking lights, clocks, meters, log and stats all to make
it look sophisticated like a lot of receiver panels look.

or

*** A simple basic looking display style with nothing but
the very basic controls.

or

*** both types of panel formats with a switch to change
them.

This next question is not an easy one, but I'm wondering how
much people would pay for a recorder that they think is a
very good piece of softwa

*** $5 to $10 USD price range
*** $10 to $20 USD price range
*** $20 to $50 USD price range
*** above $50 USD if it has everything imaginable included.

Not very scientific, I know....

--------------------------

I didn't include a full feature list here because there are
some things that obviously need to be part of a recorder,
like a log file and an auto-start recording control. But
some of the features I listed will take some effort to
produce and I want to avoid wasting a lot of time writing
code that will not be used much.

Feel free to add the features you need to have that I did
not mention, if you think it'll be widely needed by others
too.

And thanks in advance for helping!

Dave
(Author of Scanner Recorder and Scanner Recorder Pro)

On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 19:21:11 -0700, "Zombie Wolf"
wrote:

Ok, It would be nice to have it record in mp3 format, and be able to set the
bit rate of the file, a time stamp and freq stamp would be nice to
have....... And having it put the recordings into folders of your choosing
would be extra nice...

How would the recorder decide what folder to put a file
into? Every recorder already puts files into a folder of the
user's choosing. So you must mean that the program knows how
to decide which folder? Please explain.

Having it compile a microsoft database for you would be a bit arduous to
program, but would certainly be a nice feature

You mean similar to Scancat? Do you mean that you want the
recorder to use the database in a random access way keyed by
the frequency so that statistics can be tallied in the DB
for each freq that was recorded?

putting the tones info into the mp3 tag would be super,

What tones are you talking about? Detecting tones such as
DTMF? Tone detection can be done but it has to be designed
with the types of tone in mind. One frequency tone detection
would not work with DTMF. And how would tone info be stored?
As a frequency?

Thanks for answering. So far, you and only one other person
have provided any help.

People avoid surveys like the plague. But how else can they
get what they want in a new product? If it's already
completed before the ideas come in, then the ideas are less
likely to be added (afterward) unless it happens to be
something easy to retrofit. Some of the things I'm asking
for opinions on are not trivial to add later. That's why I'm
asking people up front before it becomes too late to make
modifications of that caliber.

If more people could help that would be great. Here's a
survey page I just added today.

http://www.davee.com/scanrec/survey/survey-form.html

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 19:46:49 -0400, "Bill Crocker"
wrote:

I think it's super that you are continuing to enhance your software. Do you
want us to respond in the newsgroup, or do you have an email address you'd
like us to use?

If you'd like, I prepared a web survey to make it easier.

I haven't received any email yet and maybe it's just too
hard for most people to put their ideas in writing. But
here's an easy alternative. It's your typical small survey
page with less than 10 questions and no writing necessary.

Thanks!!!

http://www.davee.com/scanrec/survey/survey-form.html

On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 22:40:37 -0700, Dave
wrote:

with less than 10 questions

Ok, I admit it. I can't count.

;v)

I've been using your program for some time. Here are my suggestions:

1) Multichannel with individual squelch would sure work for me, and
quite frankly it would be the only way to get me to pay for the
software. I'm sure there is a pro-audio multitrack file format.

2) Some sort of periodic auto-save function is needed. I often record
in the field and don't always catch the notebook battery meter
indicating a low function.

Note that I always record in PCM and then convert to compressed audio
later. This has a few advantages. One, I can "normalize" the audio in
soundforge prior to compressing it. If you adjust the audio level of a
compressed file, I believe it gets compressed twice. Second, I I can
take individual bits of audio and boost the level of just that section.
Audio levels are all over the map if you record military air. Third,
the filters work better on PCM. Often I need to notch 400hz and 1200Hz
from aircraft generators.

Now this leads to another featu

3) Dump the auto-clip scheme. Sixteen bits of audio is plenty of
headroom. Encourage the user to leave a bit of headroom when recording.
Then for each segment of audio, normalize it. This will adjust for
variations in audio level from radio to radio. This implies you will
need a buffer for the audio segment, and the ability to simultaneously
normalize one segment of audio while still recording the next segment.

Here is an idea for another product. These flash recorders (Iriver,
Creative, etc) are getting quite cheap, but they still haven't mastered
the idea of a vox. A program that would take a file from a flash
recorder and strip out the silence would be useful.

Ultimately, the audio recorder belong in the scanner itself. The
manufacturers are idiots for not doing so. It would have the advantage
that the audio segment could be tagged with frequency, time, talk
group,etc.You could scan multiple frequencies and then reassemble all
the audio segments using the tags. Uniden and GRE just can't think out
of the box. For P25, you could just store the digital audio.

I think these ideas are some of the best I've heard so far.
Especially the auto-normalize. That seems so useful and
after all these years, I never though of that one and no one
else has suggested that.


On 4 Aug 2005 23:05:31 -0700, wrote:

I've been using your program for some time. Here are my suggestions:

1) Multichannel with individual squelch would sure work for me, and
quite frankly it would be the only way to get me to pay for the
software. I'm sure there is a pro-audio multitrack file format.

2) Some sort of periodic auto-save function is needed. I often record
in the field and don't always catch the notebook battery meter
indicating a low function.

Would auto-save to a new file name (say, using a sequence
number) be acceptable instead of re-opening the previously
written file?

A .wav or .mp3 file has to be closed before it's considered
to be safely stored. That means that it cannot be appended
to without a lot of potential problems. If the format is raw
data with no headers (like the .RAW format used by Sound
forge) then it would be easy to append after closing the
file. Maybe I should consider adding a .RAW format for that
reason.

But IMHO, it's not safe to update the headers (which is
necessary to append more audio) of the .WAV or .MP3 file
that's already been closed because the computer could die in
the middle of the update and that might leave the file
crippled. Manipulating the previously saved headers can
invite other problems too, such as adding a lot of disk
seeking and CPU time to reopen the file for appending after
it's already been closed. Appending more audio requires a
read-scan of the entire file in order to locate and change
the existing audio (RIFF) headers.

Note that I always record in PCM and then convert to compressed audio
later. This has a few advantages. One, I can "normalize" the audio in
soundforge prior to compressing it. If you adjust the audio level of a
compressed file, I believe it gets compressed twice. Second, I I can
take individual bits of audio and boost the level of just that section.
Audio levels are all over the map if you record military air. Third,
the filters work better on PCM. Often I need to notch 400hz and 1200Hz
from aircraft generators.

Now this leads to another featu

3) Dump the auto-clip scheme.

If you're talking about the Scanner Recorder anti-clip, that
has to do with preventing the audio from being clipped off
at the beginning the way a mechanical VOX recorder does.
That works by keeping the last 10 MS of audio in a buffer
and drawing from that buffer whenever the VOX is opened to
prevent that pop sound. Like if it records a person saying
the word "testing" and it ends up sounding like "esting".

Sixteen bits of audio is plenty of
headroom. Encourage the user to leave a bit of headroom when recording.
Then for each segment of audio, normalize it. This will adjust for
variations in audio level from radio to radio. This implies you will
need a buffer for the audio segment, and the ability to simultaneously
normalize one segment of audio while still recording the next segment.

Here is an idea for another product. These flash recorders (Iriver,
Creative, etc) are getting quite cheap, but they still haven't mastered
the idea of a vox. A program that would take a file from a flash
recorder and strip out the silence would be useful.

Sound Forge can do that using Auto-Region I think.

Ultimately, the audio recorder belong in the scanner itself. The
manufacturers are idiots for not doing so. It would have the advantage
that the audio segment could be tagged with frequency, time, talk
group,etc.You could scan multiple frequencies and then reassemble all
the audio segments using the tags. Uniden and GRE just can't think out
of the box. For P25, you could just store the digital audio.

I really appreciate the great ideas! Thanks.