Dwight Stewart wrote:

"Dave Heil" wrote:
Dwight Stewart wrote:

Americans working at those jobs would do the
same things (pay taxes and so on), Dave.

Do some research on the number of retirees and the
number of workers paying taxes to support those retirees.

Why do we need immigrants to do that?

Because there aren't enough Americans born to do it.

What you fail to point out is how much those retirees paid into the system
over several decades of their lives to help support their own retirement,
only to have the government now say their isn't any money available because
it was spent on something else.

Lucky I failed to point that out because it simply isn't true. When
Social Security began, where did the money to pay retirees of its early
years come from? It didn't come from those folks because they never
paid much in. It came in advance from the coffers of government. What
was paid in by early workers covered under Social Security went to pay
for the retirement of future workers. Social Security was never, by the
way, designed to be a full retirement package. It was designed to
supplement what a worker saved.


The problem isn't the number of retirees -
it's the spending habits of this government. Now it's time for this
government to put that money back by cutting some of today's spending (a few
less military weapons should do it) instead of supposedly trying to gather
more people to collect taxes from.

You've got a problem comprehending simple math. There are too few
workers contributing to the system and too many retirees drawing from
it.

No, that isn't correct. Moving dirt is menial work. Lifting
boxes is menial. Clerking at a convenience store is menial.
Employers choose not to pay folks in those positions more
than the jobs are worth.

And, by having a ready supply of cheap labor to fill those jobs, employers
ensure those jobs are not worth much.

Those jobs were never worth much and they'll never be worth much.


Employment and wages are simply
matters of supply and demand, Dave. By creating a glut in the workforce,
employers are able to pay less wages and still find employees to fill those
jobs.

Everybody wants high wages for any kind of work. High wages lead to
high prices for products and services. Yet no one wants to pay higher
prices for products and services because that would make their wages
worth less. Your stuck in an endless loop, Dwight.

After all, people have to work to survive and employers know it.

....and workers know it.

Today, while business profits are astronomically high, working families are
struggling to pay bills and cover their massive debts (while those business
owners buy yachts and huge homes for their families).

You're painting that picture from imagination, Dwight. I have a cousin
who owns a small town pharmacy which employs three people other than
himself. He has yet to buy his yacht and huge home but he has been in
business for almost twenty years. There is a fellow here in town who
owns a hardware store who will close it and retire next year because he
can find no one who will buy the business. He has no huge home and no
yacht. He has managed to make a living for some decades.


And now, to add insult
to injury, those employers financially support political candidates that
will pass legislation to enable millions of immigrants to enter the country,
creating an even larger glut in the workforce so business can pay even less
wages and make even higher profits.

Both the Democrats and Republicans support continued immigration because
they can read the writing on the wall.


And if anyone objects to this massive
immigration, they're called racist.

Only if in objecting they raise an alarm only over Hispanic, Asian and
African immigrants.

You can call me racist all you want - it
certainly isn't going to stop me from speaking out against this nonsense.

You can be a racist all you want. That isn't going to stop me from
calling you one.


So let's all make 30 bucks per hour and then wonder why
the cost of everything skyrockets, huh? Americans want
good pay and they want the price of everything to be dirt
cheap. Tell us how to achieve both of those. (snip)

They've done it in other places around the world. Europeans make decent
wages, pay no more taxes than here (when you add in ALL our taxes - local,
state, federal, and so on), and consumer goods are not that much more
expensive then here (gas prices in Europe are high solely because of
government efforts to control pollution).

Those holes in your knowledge base are gaping ones. My wife worked on
the local economy in Finland in the mid-1990's. She paid 42% of her
income in income tax. Her overtime was taxed at 50%. We paid 21% in
Value Added Tax on most items and 17% VAT on food items.

We just got back from a trip to Finland. The same dishwashing liquid we
buy here is double the price there. A 1.5 liter Pepsi sells for the
price we pay for 3 liters. A half liter bottle of Scotch sells for
$13.00 A tiny washing machine which would hold no more than half what
our American machine holds runs $500. A mixed drink in the average bar
runs ten bucks while a half liter beer will set you back about four
clams. The cheapest car on the market, a Russian Lada (a Fiat clone) is
$20,000. Gasoline prices are about $4.50 per gallon, not because of
intent to reduce pollution but because a) Finland imports 100% of its
petroleum and b) the Finnish government charges high additional taxes.
Now, I'll entertain additional lectures from you on how the Europeans do
things.


They've done the same in the
wealthy countries of Asia. Why is it so impossible for this great country to
do what other countries have already done - provide decent wages for
workers, provide decent (not astronomical) profits for business, and keep
market prices reasonable?

Why not just quit whining, Dwight?

Dave K8MN