"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message ...
"Steve Robeson, K4CAP" wrote in message
om...
"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message
...

If anyone wants to start changing things in America, they need to start
changing politicians. And, I don't even care what "party" is
changed--they
are all essentially the same.

I'll have to disagree with you a bit here, Kim...

I think before we change politicians, we have to change
ourselves...What we want from govenment, the kind of conduct we expect
and what we are willing to pay for with our taxes.


Well, I think that's almost a given...but I agree. Actually, as long as the
American people are represented again...and I don't think they really are
now...then I'd be happy with anything.

Ahhh! But Kim! THAT'S THE RUB ! ! ! !

Senator-hopeful Foghorn-Leghorn stumps the Lone Star State
promising he's "The People's Senator", so we elect him. Then we tell
him "Just get it done and don't bother us", then WE wonder why things
got so screwed up! It's cuz WE didn't supervise him !

I, for one, am getting tired of 9-11 being the barometer of how patriotic we
are. Leaving out the disaster, there is so much other stuff hurting this
country--even more than the blatant terrorism that is part of a bigger
picture. Terrorism is just easier to see and be offended by. What about
all the products we buy every day that are made in China--and even before
China "earned" back the most favored nation status. What *are* they doing
with all that money they get from the products they export to this country
and that we buy? That's just one example and I bet everyone could submit
their own pet peeve for dangers that encroach upon this country; leaving
blatant terrorism aside.

Well what do you THINK they are doing with it, Kim??? The Red
Chinese just put their first astronaut in orbit a few weeks ago. And
who do you think is supplying Kim il-Jong with most of HIS
play-pretties...?!?!

But just TRY and get Americans to buy more expensive clothes just
on the principle of International Politics and they will laugh at you.

Can you imagine the outpore of anger that would have occured if
those 20 men had been arrested on September TENTH...?!?! The ACLU, The
Arab-American League and who knows who all else would have been all
over the press about how we were infringing on thier rights.


Well, I am outraged at the significance of those being held at at the US
prison camp in Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. For just an example of this, see the
news article at the BBC's website (add http:// to the following)
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2648547.stm. Yes, I know it seems outrageously
un-American to have some empathy for these folks, but I do. And it galls me
that the situation exists as it does.

I have some empathy for them too, Kim. I have empathy for the
Palestinians who wake up to see Cobra helos hovering outside thier
homes and for the Israelis who can't ride a bus to work for fear it
will blow up.

That wasn't my point...My point was where do we draw the line
between NOT "impinging" our "rights", but still giving our law and
intelligence agencies the maneuvering room they need to stop these
scumbags?

But what gauls ME is how people will get indignant about how our
politicians SHOULD be, yet "we" allow someone like Bill Clinton off
the hook despite having been caught lying over and over. Then his
wife gets caught stealing "things" from the White House, and what do
they do? They elect her to the Senate of a state she enver held
residence in.


I didn't get all that riled up about the Clinton debaucle. Hell, I'm
thinking they are probably swingers and that news just didn't come out.
Don't know about Hillary stealing stuff...was *she* brought up on any
charges? See the irony? The folks at Guantanamo Bay haven't been charged
with a thing and they're sitting where they are. She gets caught
red-handed--at least according to you--and she's now in the US Senate.

There's a difference between a combatant and a criminal suspect.
Those men are being held as combatants, not as "criminal suspects".

And that you didn't get "riled up" over the Clinton thing is part
of this nation's problems. We have made "sexual harrassment" so "PC"
that we can't even discuss it without offending someone, yet here's
the alleged leader of the free world doing ALL the things that would
give Gloria Steinman a coronary, and we just blew it off.

What kind of signal does that send?

If you or I invited a junior into the back office and suggested
that they might get some sort of preferential treatment for an hour's
worth of belly-tag, we'd get our butt's nailed to the wall.

DO you know WHY she didn't run for office from her HOME state?

WHY should we NOT tolerate them lying about anything else if
we're going to send a message that it's "OK" for the President of the
United States to violate the very same "sexual harrassment" laws that
are now prevelant in every workplace save porno movies and stripper
bars?

Well, I don't believe "we" did send that message, Steve. I believe "they"
decided how the whole thing would be handled and it got handled the way
"they" wanted it. They being the politicians and people of preference.

That doesn't wash with me...The document that empowers those
"they" says "We, The People...", and I believe if WE don't take
responsibility for and set the standards of what our government should
be, then we have no business complaining about it.

As for the cost of things...Well, all I can say is you get what
you pay for. We hamstrung our intelligence agencies for almost 30
years and now we are wondering why they can't "know" certain things.
The business of intelligence is dirty, often conniving, and usually
ugly. Our adversaries know this. That's how they manage to stay in
step with us all too often.

73

Steve, K4YZ


Aw, I'm not so sure we are or were all that hamstrung. Look back on history
a few years back...ok a lot of few years' back, and look at the photos of
Saddam shaking hands with...who is that?

There's more to outrage than meets the eye, Steve. You're right, though, we
do need to decide what it is that is going to outrage us, *us* not them.

We KNOW what outrages us, Kim...The question is are we now going
to demonstrate the sustained will to keep it from happening
again...?!?!

73

Steve, K4YZ