"KØHB" wrote in message hlink.net...
"N2EY" wrote

However, no matter how interested someone is in politics, that person can
*only* vote where he/she resides. IOW the price of voting is having to
join a community by living there.

Your analogy remains flaccid.

Your description of my analogy remains inaccurate.

Amateur radio exists in the community in
which we all live. It has an effect on all of us, whether we are licensed
or not, and the regulations concerning qualification to participate in it
even more so.

The regulations affect those who are hams the most.

My friend, W4OYI, ex-President of ARRL, compares the ARS to a public park; a
place in the spectrum set aside for citizens to pursue the avocation of
radio.

That's a passable analogy.

In most of the public parks I know, what you can do is limited. And
you need a permit/license to do certain things in the park.

What you are proposing is that persons already in this 'park' by
virtue of having paid some entry price be the only ones allowed to vote on
the conditions under which other citizens can fully participate in every
area of park activities. IOW, "I got mine, now you get yours, and then you
can vote."

No, that's not it at all. You misunderstand what Bert and I are
saying.

What we're saying is that on the single issue of continued Morse code
testing, it would be interesting to know what the opinions of *all*
licensed US hams, (not just a vocal minority) really are. That
includes amateurs of *all* license classes, not just those who have
passed a code test.

To use your park analogy, it's like polling those who actually use a
park whether a specific change should be made.

Nowhere is it proposed that the ability of others to comment would be
changed.

Of course this is simply a discussion point because there's no one who
would actually pay the expenses to conduct such a poll.

Or consider the recent election of a movie actor with no experience as a
government official to the governorship of California.

Are you suggesting that "experience as a government official" should be a
qualification for election to office in the USA?

Nope.

I'm saying that I find it incredible that the allegedly most qualified
candidate for the highest office in the most populous and most in debt
state in
the Union is a movie actor with no real experience as a government
official.

The Constitution contains
no such language.

I know. And nowhere do I say it should be a requirement. But do you
*really* think the new governor is going to better than the old one?

My daughter was recently elected to public office, and
she has no previous experience as a government official.

Did she start out as Governor or as something with a little less
responsibility?

Should she and
Arnold be denied their office?

Nope. The electorate will get what they asked for.

Should only existing or previous government
officials be allowed to be elected?

Not at all.

Do you really think the new governor of California is the most
qualified for the job? I don't.

But because I don't live there, I can't vote there.

Or should there be some sort of 'incentive licensing' of government
officials in which you must first be elected to an entry level office, let's
say Canine Capture Technician. Then after gaining the skill and experience
to capture 5 dogs per minute, they be allowed to run for office at some more
responsible level, all the way up to President, and only those already
elected would be allowed to vote for them? What a concept!

How about the electorate considering qualifications?

The fact that you have an amateur license suggests
that you will have an opinion about amateur radio
regulation, but it gives no credence in and of
itself whether your opinion is or is not worthy of consideration.

Yes, it does. (N2EY)
No, doesn't (K0HB)

Yes, it does. (N2EY)
No, doesn't (K0HB)

Yes, it does. (N2EY)
No, doesn't (K0HB)

Yes, it does. (N2EY)
No, doesn't (K0HB)

Yes, it does. (N2EY)
No, doesn't (K0HB)

...we could go on and on....

No we couldn't.

In general, what happens to the amateur radio service has a greater effect
on
licensed amateurs and those who want to be licensed amateurs than on the
general public.

But we weren't talking about "in general".

OK - then talk about the specific case of a specific poll, which was
what WA2SI was proposing.

Wahtoosey was proposing a poll
to vote on the code test as a qualfication for entry (to HF). Since you
"already have yours", such a poll (were it binding on FCC) would not effect
your entry into amateur radio, but would have a far greater effect on those
not yet licensed (the general public).

Who said it would be binding on the FCC?

And remember the other conditions of the poll: *Any* ham would have
the same vote.

Thus we could much more convincingly
argue that you should *not* be eligible to vote in the poll, but the general
(non-licensed) public *should* be eligible.

By that same logic, you should not be allowed to propose your
two-class learner permit system, because you've already "got yours".
And you "got yours" under far less draconian rules than you propose
for others.

One word: motivation.

Ah, yes, the old "motivation" card. We dealt with that back in 1996 at

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm....mn.org&oe= U
TF-8&output=gplain

I wasn't online back then. Besides, would you want things to always
remain as they were in 1996?


Who are the people who would want to participate in a one-time survey on
Morse
code testing but who cannot even pass the Technician written test?

Wahtoosey

WHO?

didn't suggest a 'survey'. He talks about a poll where people
vote and democracy rules.

Is that bad? Are you against direct democracy and polling of those
most affected?

And the discussion was not about those who 'cannot even pass'. It was about
those who (for whatever reason of their own) have not become licensees.

You're avoiding the central issue. I think you know that if such a
poll were actually taken, you might not like the results.

More of your "I've got mine, now you get yours" mindset showing.

Not me. I EARNED mine. I encourage others to EARN theirs. Is that bad?
Shall I apologize for my accomplishments and sit idly by while others
try to trash a community I belong to?

Not gonna happen, Hans. No matter how much you try to twist what I
wrote.

73 de Jim, N2EY