Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote:
In article .net, "KØHB"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote
|
| - Allowing a free upgrade is proof that the material in the test which
is not
| taken is not necessary for the privileges.
|

Here we go again!


Where, Hans?

We are "going" to irritate Hans again! 8^)

it Jim, that is patently false and you know that
it is, yet you keep dragging it out as a fact.

What is false?

Here's the quote:

"Allowing a free upgrade is proof that the material in the test which
is not taken is not necessary for the privileges."

How is that patently false?

Perhaps it would be clearler stated thusly:

"If a free upgrade is allowed, some will say that
such an upgrade is proof that the material in the test which
is not taken is not necessary for the privileges."

Jim, it is the truth as plain as can be.

"Wanna be a general class ham?"

"Sure."

"You have three choices:"


"1. Study and become a General class ham now

2. Study to become a Technician now, and wait a few months, then you'll
be a General.

3. Wait until after those few months, and take a General test and then
be a General class Ham."

"Is the technician class test more difficult than the General?

"Nope, it's easier."

"Wait a second! Is the Technician a higher class than the General?"

"Nope, General is one grade higher than Technician."

"So by taking an easier test now, I can get more privileges, and all I
have to do is wait a few months?"

"Yup!"

"But if I wait, I'll have to take a harder test for the same thing?"

"Yup."

"Hold on a second! If I can take an easier test now, and get the same
privileges as a harder test later, WHY should the later test be harder?
Why should those who come later have to take a more difficult test when
the test I take now is sufficient? Isn't the Technician test we take now
qualification enough?

"I don't really know!"

That really says it all.

Allowing a free upgrade
isn't "proof" of anything except that a free-pass was given, sort of
like a day of amnesty when all overdue library books can be returned
without fees.

Not the same thing at all! Fee-amnesty is a forgiveness of a violation.
Free upgrade isn't.

Consider this scenario:

FCC says new rules will go into effect on R-day (R for Restructuring)

Our Hero gets Tech on R-day minus 1

Our Hero gets free upgrade to General on R-day.

General written test not needed by Our Hero.

QED


Yes, it's a really bad idea, but it doesn't disprove the
need for proper qualification examinations.


*IF* the free upgrades are actually done, don't you think some
will say there's no reason for the General test?

It's called logic, Hans. Try it sometime.

If they are done this way, those who want lesser testing will have a
powerful tool. "Look at all the people who are now Generals and only
took a Technician test. Give logical and compelling reasons that this
should not be a permanent thing."

How on earth are we going to argue against THAT?

Simple: We're not! We can say all we want that it was a one-time
thing,
that it was needed in order to close the books on licenses no longer
issued, that time-in-grade is worth something, yada yada yada. But in
the end, they'll be able to pick out a few dozen/hundred/thousand who
got their licenses X days before the freebie, and say, "why can't I
get the same deal?"

This sort of thing is probably why FCC didn't just grandfather all
existing Generals and above to Extra in 1968. And it also explains the
Great Giveaway of December 1952.

The newbies would have a legitimate-sounding gripe.

Go join Carl Stevenson and
Ed Hare in the NTI sign-up queue. (I'd mention them by call sign, but I
wouldn't want to risk compromising your "standards".)

You mean WK3C and W1RFI?

I always thought your opinion differed quite a bit from those two Jim! 8^)

On some things, yes. But on other things (like BPL), the three of us
are in complete and perfect agreement.

Why are you so afraid of dissenting opinions, Hans?
What are you so afraid of?

Just cabin fever, Jim.

Maybe. Or maybe, like some other rrap denizens, he resorts to anger
when lacking a logical counterargument.

wait till the RM comments....

Which brings up an interesting point....

Back in the ancient time, FCC essentially said they weren't going to
do
anything until the amateur community came to a consensus on changes.
That
all changed with the NPRM for 98-143.

It appears that folks in the ARRL BoD and Hq, as well as a few others,
knew that something was brewing at FCC, and put out proposals just
before
the NPRM hit the streets. But most of us did not know what was brewing
until proposals and the NPRM started to fly.

Then came all the comments, etc, and finally the Report and Order in
December
1999.

This time, it's quite a bit different. S25.5 is essentially gone, and
FCC does...nothing. 14 petitions from various groups, some of them
almost exactly identical (NCI and NCVEC), hit FCC, and they assign RM
numbers in batches of 7, and take comments.

Now comes the ARRL proposal. And maybe more, like Hans. Been over six
months since folks came home from Geneva and.....no rules changes.

See the difference?

The first ARRL website/QST story said the process would take 2 years.
I scoffed - now I'm wondering if they might be right!

Wanna do a proposal, Mike? Everybody else is!

73 de Jim, N2EY