In article , Dave Heil
foams at the mouth and writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , Dave Heil

trying to go for the jugular but getting only a juggler writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,
(N2EY)
writes:

To US who were in the big-time radio communications on HF of a half
century ago, that did not involve morse code. There were and still
are
a lot of "US" involved in that.

For some of US who've had more recent experience than yours, morse was
involved. For many of us who are actually radio amateurs and who are
participants in big-time radio HF communications today, morse code is
still involved. What are you doing in big-time HF these days?

In big-time HF, not a heckuva lot. There's very little left of the BIG
TIME HF communications efforts of a half century ago.

There's plenty of BIG-TIME HF communications, Leonard. You simply
aren't involved in it any more than you are amateur radio and it didn't
happen fifty years ago.

So, you are saying the Army Command and Administrative Network
"didn't exist fifty years ago?" There was no such thing?!?

Mais non. ACAN existed very much, very big, running more traffic
every month through one station than the fabled NTS could ever
"work" in a year.

You weren't there. You couldn't know. But, you pretend you do.

Pretense is what you are. Try a tranquilizer. You won't be as tense.

Armature radio deeecksing is "big time?" Nope. Not a drop in a
bit bucket compared to the communications carriers of not too long
ago. You'd LOVE to think it was "big time" but that is only how it
is written up in QST.

Sure, Leonard. Compared with what is available to you, it is plenty
big-time, especially if done right--big towers, big antennas, all the
power the law allows. I don't have to read about it, I'm able to
participate.

My, my, back to the old puerile comparison of genitalia in radio?

Snarly dave, you don't know squat what "I've got available to me."

All you got left is HOBBY activities.

Long past the "pioneering of HF" period in hamdom.

The only radio service still requiring morse code for communications
is amatoor radio. All the other radio services either gave up on it or
never considered it in the first place.

I really don't care. Morse is alive and well in amateur radio. I don't
use it as my sole operating mode anyway.

So, if you "really don't care," why are you foaming at the mouth so
much, making nasty to all those that don't kiss your asterisk?

Okay, you love and adore morse code.

So, why must everyone ALSO love and adore morse code and keep
the morse code test forever and ever in amateur regulations?

Who really cares WHAT you use, snarly dave?

I was IN worldwide communications on HF over a half century ago.
At the time I liked it fine...even felt honored to be able to serve
my
country doing just that.

None of that involved morse code.

...and because you didn't use morse, no one used it at the time or since.
A number of us have used morse professionally and as radio amateurs in
the decades after you had your "big-time".

Nope, snarly dave, the Army gave up on morse code for fixed-point
to fixed-point long-distance communications back in 1948, before my
service time. The Navy's long-haul fixed comms were the same way.

I think you must have your facts in disarray.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. No. Try swinging YOUR disarray away from some
imaginary time. Your front-to-back ratio is terrible.

Sweetums, I WORKED IN that Big Leagues of military comms in the
Pacific back then and know several who were there at the same time,
including one civilian. It was REAL. All kinds of documentation on
it.

Why do you keep on DENYING it so much?

Are you afraid your imaginary beliefs will be exposed?

Same for the USAF although all the branches maintained some
morse code proficiency requirements and circuits until the early 70s
(rather small efforts).

The Air Force never used much two way CW.

What? You were some comms chief in the USAF "in charge" of
Globecom or something?

I'm sure Department of State was able to put
some of that obsolete military equipment to good use after it had a
life in active military duty.

I never used any surplus military gear at all, Lumpy. It was commercial
gear all the way.

I said Department of State, wonder ham.

I really don't care. State never had any network close to the military's
and still doen't. Access to the DSN now may be argued as being
"part of it" but only you and your kind of morsemen would try to stretch
things that far.

Tens of thousands of skilled radio operators worldwide have used
worldwide communications effectively for decades without ever
once having to use or know morse code. They have done so for
over a half century.

Tens of thousands of skilled radio ops worldwide *have* used morse
effectively for worldwide communications after your day in the sun.
Tens of thousands still do so.

Sorry, snarly dave, that's just your Article of Faith. You WANT to
think that is true but it's far in the past and never the numbers you
can prove.

That isn't correct at all, Leonard. My statement is pure fact and I
have the log books to back it up. There are plenty of other sources
including logs in existence.

You've got "logs" all over, snarly dave.

No one really cares what kind of "P-51 time" you noted in. :-)

[ old aviation joke...snarly dave wouldn't understand ]


The PROOF is seeing what radio circuits use what on
HF...even when HF was a mainstay of communications carriers.

PROOF exists in my logs and the logs of countless others. Would you
like some hundreds of thousands of QSOs to peruse?

Digitize them and send them out if that makes you happy.

Now, how do you authenticate all of those?

Do we take you as supremely "honest?"

As much as anyone takes spammers "honesty."

Don't let me stop your rationale invention. Improve the state of the
rationale art, innovate, improvise, adapt...

The U.S. military did not require any morsemanship to use the very
first handheld transceivers (on HF) for communications in 1940.
That's
64 years ago. Neither did they require any morsemanship to use the
first backpack radio (on VHF) in 1943. That's 61 years ago.

Yet the military continued to use morse. What's your point?

EVOLUTION, you throwback to failed Darwinism.

Do you need a DayGlo billboard to outline it? WAKE UP.

Okay, the military continued to use morse long after the introduction of
the equipement you mentioned. This demonstrates EVOLUTION in what way?

"Equipement?" :-)

The U.S. military does not use any morse code for communications now.
It quit doing so several years ago. Many several years in fact.

No communications carrier service in the USA uses any morse code.
Railroads don't use it. Shipping on land doesn't use it. Businesses
don't use it, even if they are making-selling morse code devices.

Tens of thousands of olde-tyme hammes use morse code. Amateurs.

Are they thinking they are "advancing the state of the radio art" by
doing so? Are they "pioneering the airways" as was done in the 20s
and 30s? Or don't they know any better way to communicate?

The state of the art of radio communications long since bypassed
morsemanship skills.

It doesn't take rocket science intellect to use, operate ANY radio.

I'd love the opportunity to sit you down in front of my Orion for a few
hours...

Oh wow! Snarly dave is going to overwhem me with complicated
knobs and switches and instructions on a box of electronics!

Snarly dave, you important, electronically impotent sot, ALL
electronics and radio systems ARE complicated, complex, and
must be some kind of arcane magic to you. I know because I've
seen the same self-importancy demonstrated before, even once
about a system I helped design and develop. :-)

Yeah, snarly dave, I'll "sit down in front of your orion." If and only
if you sit down in front of any radio system I've used in the last
decade. Can you afford air fare and lodging to Pasadena? I can
show you some of the JPL Deep Space Network...after the Rover
missions, please, they are a bit busy right now. You can't sit down
in the avionics compartments of an F-18 or F-16 but you can get an
idea, maybe a glimmering of what those are about...except you'll
quickly get snowed even with a Have Quick. I can get you into
KNBC and the master control in Burbank; they have tours for that
sort of thing, no problem. You've never "ridden" a modern TV control
board, have you? I can get a Novice license holder to show you how
it all works...Tom won two Emmys for TV direction, different years.

All of that involves RADIO, snarly dave. None of it is amateur. It is
all very professional/commercial. You will get snowed in mentally
worse than the northeast has ever gotten.

But...you ARE TESTED FOR MORSE CODE AND AN EXTRA!

You can afford an expensive radio toy to pursue your "radiosport."
And, of course, tell everyone about and go nyah, nyah, "you ain't
as good as dave!"

If YOU had to test for morse code then everyone else MUST.

It's the law. That law can never be changed, right?


Morsemanship needs only repetitive Pavlovian training to become
a wetware modem...provided the basic aptitude is present.

NO modern communications carrier uses any morse code. Such
skills went byebye some time ago.

Teletype Corporation didn't make a half million teleprinters during
their corporate existance to copy morse code.

Vibroplex didn't make all those paddles and bugs to copy Baudot. I
frequently use Baudot though but I don't have equipment manufactured by
Teletype or Kleinschmidt. Radio amateurs still use morse regularly.
What the commercials do worries me not. I'm enjoying amateur radio as
an avocation, not as a business.

Most of Teletype Corporation's hundreds of thousands of Teletypes
didn't use "Baudot" as in the old 5-level code. They used the 8-level
ASCII. The half-millionth Teletype was on display in gold plating at
many electronics industry trade shows in the 1980s. Too bad you
couldn't have seen one. But, you are an amateur and not in the
business. It would make your Vibroplex just vibrate all over! :-)

You are "enjoying amateur radio" so that you can make like a big
shot (with the O stretched vertically) and snarl at those who don't
care to take any code test...or those who worked in BIG HF comms
before your time...or those who won't kneel down and kiss your
asterisk. Or all of the above.

Nice not talking to you, snarly dave. Have fun "on the bands."
All below 30 MHz, that is, in tiny little bands below 10 meters.

LHA / WMD