N2EY wrote:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


N2EY wrote:


In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:



"N2EY" wrote in message
...


In article t, "Bill

Sohl"


writes:


[snip]



If all 83,000 Advanceds get a free upgrade to Extra, they'll have

access


to


those choice slices and they'll probably increase the QRM level. So

giving


them


a free upgrade *does* take something away from existing Extras.

Jim,

I'm willing to share the Extra sub-bands with a few others.


Only a few? I'm willing to share them with as many as can pass the
required tests. Particularly the *written* tests.


Be careful ... your "not in my sandbox" motives are showing.


You're the one willing to share with "a few"....

And I do recall someone saying they'd **NEVER** support a reduction
in the **WRITTEN** test requirements. Yet now I see that same person
supporting free upgrades that involve not even having to take *written*
tests...

Technically he's right Jim. He isn't supporting any reduction in the
writtens. He's supporting not having to take a test *at all*. There is a
difference, you know!


No there isn't.

Eliminating something is the same as reducing it to zero. The free upgrades
simply reduce the testing required for the upgrade to zero. Still a reduction.

I would have though by now you would have known that such a statement
from me was very tongue in cheek, Jim!



Like all those Advanced are on the air now. Give me a break.

If they're not on the air, there's no reason to give them upgrades,
is there?

They'll get upgrades, even if they're SKs whose family hasn't
sent in their license for cancellation - so what?

Why not upgrade all existing hams except Novices to Extra, then?


83,000 advanced today who are either SK, inactive or just
don't see the need to upgrade and you expect even a measurable
increase in QRM because some of them may suddenly start
operating in the Extra only segments.

Then just leave 'em be!

That would require essentially maintaining the status quo, which
is unacceptable.

Why?


The FCC wants to simplify -

Says who?

I recall that FCC **REJECTED** the ARRL proposal to free-upgrade Tech

Pluses

and Novices to General back in 1998-99. And even though ARRL proposed

keeping

the Advanced open, FCC rejected that too.

In fact it was *FCC's* idea to keep the Novice and Advanced as closed-off
license classes, rather than handing out free upgrades.

What has changed in the four years since then that now requires handing out
over 82,000 free passes to Extra, and over 322,000 free passes to General?



the ARRL wants to create a viable
entry level class with meaningful HF privs and reasonable power limits.


And that part is a good idea! In fact, it's almost identical to what I

proposed

here more than 2 years ago. Except I'd require 5 wpm code...

But that doesn't explain the need for over 400,000 free upgrades.

Of course if the Novice is reopened with new HF privs, Tech Pluses should

get

those same privs. And if the code test isn't required for "NewNovices",

then

Techs should get those same HF privs.


After careful consideration of Ed Hare's (personal, not ARRL)
comments on the subject on eHam.net


I'll ask again for a link to those comments.


Please?


I think that when you scratch the surface of most people that support
reductions in the Morse code testing, you will find that they also
support reduction or elimination of the rest of the testing regimen.
There are exceptions, but they prove the rule IMO.


I disagree! I think many if not most anticodetest folks just want the code test
to go away. Frankly, I'm surprised that Carl has changed his tune so
completely.

Could be I'm not hanging out with the right no-coders, Jim. The ones I
know, with one or two exceptions, seem to be at least acqueiscing of the
ARRL plan. I think you would agree that their givaway plan fits the bill.



I (personally, not as NCI)
think it makes the best sense as a one-shot deal as a way forward
to a license/priv structure that makes sense for the future.

Even though it means a one-shot reduction in written test requirements
for over 400,000 hams. That's almost 60% of those licensed today.

By golly, that's a lot more high level hams!


Bingo.

Here's another thought: Rules changes like that don't happen overnight -
there's always a time delay between when a rules change is announced and

the

new rules take effect. So if FCC simply accepted ARRL's proposal tomorrow,
they'd probably make it effective a few months hence.

So someone without a license could just take the Tech before the changes

take

place, and then ride the free upgrade bus to General.

Yup!


I'd really like to see a link to Ed's arguments...

Me too! I want to see if he can convince me of something I'd said I'd
never support!


I can see some possibilities:

- Free upgrading Techs would mean a lot more hams with HF, which is a big
arguing point against BPL

If I were arguing *for* BPL, I would denounce that little trick as a
transparent ploy. I think it is bad form to do something that gives the
opposition a foot in the door.

- Possible recruiting tool for ARRL ("look what we got you!")

Then what will they do for an encore?

- Less work for VECs (NCVEC is always complaining - see their comments.)

NO tests at all would lessen their workload.

- (the big one): The ARRL proposal dumps Element 1 for all but Extra.
Supporting it gets Carl and NCI most of what they want in the codetest area.
And maybe the FCC will dump Element 1 for Extra too....



I'd really like to see the link. Looked around eham but can't find the comments
mentioned.

Yeah, I've been looking too.

- Mike KB3EIA -