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June 8th 04, 11:24 PM

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: Call Area Etiquette
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 6/6/2004 11:58 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: Call Area Etiquette
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 6/5/2004 6:59 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article , Dave Heil

writes:

We don't know that T5/N0IMD existed.

I think it did.

Why? Because he "said so"...?!?!

That's one reason. Lacking any proof to the contrary, I'm not going to call
someone a liar.

Then you're a bit more liberal than I am, I guess! =)

Not liberal. Accurate.

I figure after two years of being asked yet proactively dodging the ante
earns Brain the title.

Nope. A liar is someone who intentionally says things he/she knows are
untrue in an attempt to deceive. For all we know, the statements made
about the alleged operation by the alleged operator could all be true.

Sure you can...ie: Antarctica

Well, there you have it. It could have happened, and all of the above-named
conditions would have been met.

And I have yet to meet anyone who WAS "there" that didn't have SOME
memento of the occassion. I know three guys who were /KC4 who at least had
pics taken at the McMurdo and Little America signs outside the outpost's
complex.

But the alleged operation wasn't allegedly in Antartica.

However even there there are international agreements on who can grant
what authority, to whom, and under what circumstances.

Of course. I didn't say such operation would be 100% in agreement with
international requirements, just that it could happen.

Heck, it might not even be 1% in agreement. But it still could have
happened.

Sure it could...and J.Lo might leave her NEW husband and show up on my
doorstep begging for me to pleasure her...

I ain't holding my breath. However if she DOES show up, you can be darned
sure I will have SOME sort of proof before making outlandish claims!

That's you.

Brain was allegedly in a military unit under United Nations auspices,
and
it seems he did NOTHING to get the PROPER authorizations to do what he
CLAIMED to do.

Maybe. But that has no bearing on whether the alleged /T5 operation took
place,
whether logbooks existed, and whether QSLs were exchanged.

It has all the bearing in the world, Jim.

Not at all. Either it happened or it didn't. If it was unauthorized,
yet it happened, it still happened. It just doesn't count for any
awards.

How can you say that a lack of proper authorization to operate DOESN'T
ahve bearing on the operation...?!?!

I'm saying it doesn't have any bearing on whether it happened or not.

There's not a single Amateur Radio award
by any organization that I am aware of that is not predicated on the legitimacy
of the operating credentials of the claimant.

Sure. And to our knowledge nobody has claimed any QSOs with the
alleged operation for any awards.

He can "operate" all he wants to and exchange a ton of QSL cards, but no
license (or authorization or permit or certificate...what ever you want to call
it...) and all that operation is worthless.

Of course. But the *claims* that there was an operation would still be
true.

Remember that all it would take to meet all of these conditions would be one
QSO in a ham band using stateside calls and portable designation.

As long as the legal criteria was met.

Even if they weren't, it would still be an operation. Just not a legit
one.

In Brain's case, it appears as though it wasn't. He was not in
Antarctica...he was allegedly in Somalia.

He won't even provide us with the callsign of ONE station he "worked"
while in Somalia.

Of course not. Same goes for bands/modes/antennas/rigs used. But the lack of
detail doesn't mean the alleged operation didn't happen.

Please tell me you're just playing "Devil's Advocate", Jim...!

I'm simply being accurate.

Folks keep focusing on the wrong things.

What has actually been claimed? Operation from /T5, nothing more. No
mention of modes, bands, rigs, number of QSOs, etc.

Can't you see that if even *one* QSO was made, on *any* ham band, over
*any* distance, it would constitute "operation from /T5"? Even if said
operation was not in agreement with international agreements?

The lack of detail is a different issue completely.

You've GOT to be kidding me.

Not at all.

I can tell you in INTIMATE detail the sation I had set up in my barracks
on Oki in 81...Equipment, antennas, I even still have the log. Although I
don't have my copy of the AMRS authorization, I can give specifics about
who/what/where, callsign, and even have a couple of QSL cards from folks I
worked...

That's you.

Being secretive isn't lying. It's...being secretive. Of course the
lack of detail reduces credibility, but it doesn't make the secretive
person a liar.

He can't even TELL us ONE callsign of anyone he worked...?!?!

Not can't.

Won't.

Big difference.

No proof = Didn't happen.

Not at all.

No proof = Reasonable doubt.

No proof on short notice = reasonable doubt.

No proof after two years = didn't happen.

Not at all, Steve. Objective reality states that if a thing happened,
it happened whether anyone believes it happened or not.

Nothing more or less.

His "nothing more" can't be much less than what it's been, Jim!

Of course.

Don't you realize by now that you won't get answers to your questions?

73 de Jim, N2EY