RadioBanter - View Single Post - BPL Pilot Project In Cedar Rapids Shuts Down

July 2nd 04, 10:33 PM

In article , PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

Oddly enough, despite the urban myth of some objecting to BPL,
the FCC does NOT have any power to stop Access BPL!

Actually, they do.

NO, they don't have ANY ability to STOP any Access BPL.

All the FCC can do - at the moment and in what they will probably
have on a new R&O - is the ability to stop INCIDENTAL RF
RADIATION beyond the level established by the Commission.

The broadband communications service over Access BPL can
CONTINUE in the USA.

All the FCC can do is put limits on the incidental RF radiation
from a BPL system, then enforce it.

It would be a simple matter for FCC to set the levels so low that none of the
systems could come close to meeting it. That would effectively ban it.

But FCC won't do that. Yet.

FCC doesn't come even close to the German levels already
established.

Even so, the FCC CANNOT STOP Access BPL. Do you under-
stand your own error? Access BPL can, and already does, by
rather obvious examples, ALREADY EXCEED REGULATORY
STANDARDS on incidental RF radiation levels.

Read the NTIA Phase 1 and Phase 2 reports.

The FCC already does
that with other communications service providers (cable TV in
main but also telephone cable and incidental RF radiation from
electric power lines). The enforcement is going to be a total
bitch of a job for BPL. The FCC is way, way down on facilities
to test and measure BPL installations and is going to have to
really pork up its budget to come close to good measurements
in urban areas especially. It will be a HUGE task.

If it gets done. It probably won't. FCC is not bound by any strict deadlines
for enforcement.

Well, what are you going to DO about it? Just sit there and send
messages on a broadband provider talking all about "CW getting
through when nothing else does?"

The incidental RF radiation from overhead electric power lines is
going to affect ANYONE trying to listen on HF and some low-VHF
frequencies.

There's no good signs evident that the FCC is coming even
close to realizing the gargantuan task of monitoring BPL of the
future. Mikey Powell and company have been sold on BPL "for
the masses" and that's that...a big mass.

Would you refer to Chairman Powell as "Mikey" to his face? Would you address
your comments to FCC to "Mikey"?

Someone die and you were appointed New Headmaster?

Hell, yes, I would refer to FCC Chairman Powell as "Mikey" right
to his face...if I was commenting on the idiotic decisions to
abandon all existing radio services and government radio services
to the RF noise pollution of Access BPL.

I've ALREADY addressed the ENTIRE COMMISSION as ignorant
on technical matters. They are. QED. Quod erat demonstrandum.
[it is as demonstrated] That's in public view, on the record.

The only perceivable way to fight BPL is now after-the-fact, like
the Cedar Rapids group did, apparently successfully. But, that
takes a concerted group effort in each amateur radio locality.
ARRL can't be dependent as the "big gun" to fight BPL.

But they *can* give needed help, and act to coordinate efforts. And if nothing
else, ARRL has continued to publicize the BPL threat both inside and outside
the amateur community, and to spread accurate information on what is going on.

What is that statement you make...another Sermon on the Antenna
Mount?

The ARRL is NOT the major objector to Access BPL. You could see
that from the comments on dockets 04-37 or 03-104. But, you can't
see that and continue with the "praise the league" as if they were the
only group against BPL.

The Iowa group and the affected amateur both publicly thanked ARRL for its
help.

What "help" did the ARRL do in Cedar Rapids, Iowa?

Identify that "help."

The Cedar Rapids group WENT OUT AND DID IT BY THEMSELVES.

They TOOK ACTION.

They didn't go around mumbling catechisms for the league and do
nothing. THEY DID SOMETHING.

They
aren't staffed or budgeted to oversee all the possible BPL
installation testing in the USA. The League's budget would have
to quadruple or quintuple to approach being able to do that...and
still not be enough.

How do you know what it would take, Len? Have you done it?
Have you sent a check to help out?

Why are you trying to start a Flame War on this?

I CAN do a fair estimation of man-hours because I've done fair
estimations of man-hours and effort on lots of contract
proposals in the past.

Just what has the judgemental, finger-waving James Miccolis
DONE against Access BPL? Besides sit in here and wag a
disapproving finger and play space guru games in words with
Weiner von Brawn?!?

Individual industry and local government (state on down) groups
haven't shown they have enough clout to make a difference in the
Commission's enthusiasm for BPL.

Regulation of radio is specifically a Federal function. State and local
governments cannot have any real clout - otherwise they'd be requiring
licenses and fees.

Clue: Access BPL is NOT a "radio service."

Access BPL has INCIDENTAL RF RADIATION that is "not intentioned
to transmit any radio frequency information."

Access BPL is a broadband communications carrier. As such it
might be - at some future time - under FCC control IF IT CROSSES
STATE BOUNDARIES in providing such a communication service.
[the telephone infrastructure already crosses state boundaries by
default since the communications capabilities are so built-in]

Pandora's Box has already
been opened. Lots of such Boxes in all of the 50 states. It's
going to be one helluva big task to close them.

Maybe. Or maybe a few good precedents will be set that will cause the rest to
give up.

Are you going to break into a rendition of "Tommorrow" from the
musical "Little Orphan Annie?"

IFF is the old acronym for radar transponders. IFF is also an
older contraction in English meaning I, and only IF. This isn't
the former nor the latter and your wish fulfillment hasn't yet been
filled. The EXISTING ACCESS BPL SYSTEM *ARE* RADIATING
EXCESS RF ENERGY ON HF in every community that is trying
it out.

"Maybies" don't cut it.

Many highly-touted new technologies have fallen by the wayside once their
disadvantages became known.

Yeah, like telephones, radio, heavier-than-air craft, television and
[ta-dahh] cellular telephony and the Internet!

Right. All "big disadvantaged things" that nobody "needs."

At time now, one in three Americans has a cell phone subscription
and one out of five American households have some form of Internet
access. According to the U.S. Census Bureau. But, what do they
know, right?

There's also the economic angle. The price of DSL keeps dropping, as does
Wi-Fi, while the areas covered by those technologies and cable keep expanding.
If BPL cannot compete in price and performance, it's all over.

"Price of DSL keeps dropping?!?!?" Look again.

Who are the Wi-Fi (really Wi-FAX) providers? IEEE 802.16 standard
is hardly dry in its approved specifications for Wi-FAX and you are
thinking it is all over the USA?

You are avoiding the issues by trying to hide. Access BPL radiates
incidental RF radiation NOW in HF and some at low-VHF. By test.
By measurements of both government and private industry groups.

Say goodbye to low-level HF signals if BPL comes to your QTH,
at least for a while.

Depends on the frequencies used. Not all BPL systems use the entire HF
spectrum. See ARRL descriptions of the Penn Yan (NY) system.

NONE of the Access BPL systems use the "entire HF spectrum."
Only MOST of it. Enough to cream any low-level received signals
in pseudo-random noise.

Why are you trying to hide from the obvious RF pollution?

Remember which administration brought out
the spectre of Access BPL to this nation while you and everyone
else are at it.

Not just this nation. The Canadians are at it:

BPL began in Norway 10 years ago, as PLC or Power Line
Communications. It didn't get far then.

The REPUBLICAN administration of NOW made broadband and
broadband over power lines a "big high-tech new thing" for rural
America. See MIKEY Powell's enthusiastic support in public.
See MIKEY Gallagher's enthusiastic support in public [NTIA].

Do you need pop-ups on your browser screen to understand
the toadying to the prez going on? Nationwide billboards (like
Wall Drug Store) to advertise it?

Or are you just trying to incite another newsgroup flame war?