"D. Stussy" wrote in message rg...
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004, Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:
Subject: WX Receivers and Repeaters retransmitting non-weather alerts.

And if you bothered to look at the current .113, there is also a "waiver" for
retransmitting NOAA/NWS weather transmissions - with the limitation that it is
NOT done on a continuous basis (communications emergency or failure
notwithstanding for which the rules in .400 ff. take priority anyway).

I DID read them, Dieter. You however, seem to think that ANY
acknowldegement of it's opportunity means you can retransmit that
audio "automatically".

The rules specifically say no.


Neither my $150 2 meter rig nor my $350 V/UHF rig have SAME function in
them either. What would be the point of having those alert tones squawking on
2M or 70CM...?!?!

Because those alert tones are part of "EAS," while the normal weather status
transmission isn't. Emergency communications that may affect life or property
are always ALLOWED - and the concept of the FCC enacting the new EAS to replace
EAB was to have it reach as many [people] as possible as soon as possible.
Yet, we have the FCC's Mr. Cross now saying that this is forbidden. If so,
then I think he's insane - a rules violation is clearly less significant than
saving someone's life.

No one's life is likely to be saved due to retransmitting NWS
audio on an Amateur transceiver, Dieter. Amateur transceivers don't
decode the SAME codes.

So...We bump the $20 up to $40...I can find at least a half dozen radios
in that price range that DO have SAME in them. So what then?

Personally, I'd rather keep the radio seperate so I could monitor NOAA
while keeping my 2M rig for 2-way purposes.

Well, no one said that YOU (or anyone else) HAD TO interface your local
repeater to a SAME-activated weatherradio. However, now that the rules do
permit it, why is there this "strange" interpretation of that rule?

There's nothing strange here EXCEPT your interpretation that this
would be a legitimate rebroadcast.

R E A D T H E R E G U L A T I O N, D I E T E R ! ! ! ! ! !

The places where NOAA transmissions can NOT be heard are extremely
few. I
am sure there is some remote butte in Montanna or some valley in West
Virginia
that has poor or no coverage...But certainly not enough for the FCC to
reverese
it's policy...Espeically in light of NOAA's expenditures to spread the net.
In
my "neighborhood" alone I can hear transmissions on 3 of the seven channels
on
an HT...I can imagine what I might hear with a dedicated receiver and
appropriate antenna.

Those Amateurs who want to hear it are usually already involved in
SKYWARN
and already know the frequencies to tune to. They don't have to cling to a
local repeater hoping that someone else will "rebroadcast" NOAA audio.

Then explain why the rules were changed a couple of years ago to permit
it....

Explain to me where it's permitted 24/7, Dieter...

Explain to me where it's allowed to be AUTOMATICALLY retransmitted.

Follow along:

97.113(e) No station shall retransmit programs or signals emanating from any
type of radio station other than an amateur station, except propagation and
weather forecast information intended for use by the general public and
originated from United States Government stations and communications, including
incidental music, originating on United States Government frequencies between a
space shuttle and its associated Earth stations. Prior approval for shuttle
retransmissions must be obtained from the National Aeronautics and Space
Administration. Such retransmissions must be for the exclusive use of amateur
operators. Propagation, weather forecasts, and shuttle retransmissions may not
be conducted on a regular basis, but only occasionally, as an incident of
normal amateur radio communications.

Re-read that LAST LINE over and over, Dieter.

I have. That does not forbid automatic retransmission.

It SPECIFICALLY says no automatic retransmissions, Dieter! ! !

It does forbid
scheduled, regular, and/or continuous retransmission. It permits occasional
retransmission. [Emergencies are also not "regular" in nature.]

And without the intervention of a control operator (manual
operation), how do you determine which transmissions are in compliance
with Part 97...?!?!

As for automatic, the issue arose with regard to a device that would be
interfaced to an amateur repeater, and repeaters MAY BE AUTOMATICALLY
CONTROLLED, so that's where the "automatic" aspect comes in.

You're trying to twist the regulation to fit YOUR interpretation.

You can try that excuse if Riley sends you a QSL, but the sting
from tjhe slap on the wrist you'll get will still hurt none-the-less.

So what would be your point? There's no way you can make those
rebroadcasts and NOT be assured that the broadcast was NOT being used by
non-Amateurs.

Not any more so than under circumstances where no shuttle or weather
transmissions are occuring. Amateur frequencies are often included in
scanners - devices which don't require an FCC license to operate.

No, they don't.

But FCC rules DO specify what we can "retransmit" via our
stations. Like I said...you go right ahead and push the envelope on
this one. I think you'll get your wrist slapped.

The only thing I gather from your statements is that you believe that ANY
retransmission of non-amateur communications is a rules violation.

Then you're not paying attention.

That also
is not what .113 says - it is permitting SOME types of non-amateur originated
communications to be [re]transmitted on an OCCASIONAL basis.

And that "OCCASSIONAL" basis will require that a livign, breathing
person make the determination as to whether to make the rebroadcast.

THAT is NOT "automatic".

How come I don't find Dieter Stussy in any of those NG's howling about the
inappropriateness of those posts...?!?!

1) I don't read every newsgroup.

Just the one's where you might get your feelings hurt?

2) Spam happens. You expect me to "explain the entire universe" to you?

No I don't. However Bill Pasternak's posts are not spam. YOU
may not like them, but that's you.

3) There is quite alot of "****" posts that happen here.

Most of them by persons who find it necessary to use profanity in
order to effectively express themselves. =)

4) What is the point of complaining about someone else's off-topic post if
nothing can or will be done about it? Here, there is someone to whom I can
complain about to get it stopped.

Yuo are one person "complaining" about a post that IS relevant to
this NG whether it meets YOUR definition or not.

5) For the most part, people RESPECT the purpose of the group and usually stay
on topic. Amateur radio seems to attract anarchists by its nature - and it is
clear what we have here is anarchy.

Only to you, and only due to your frustration with Bill.

Lastly, I didn't imply that this wasn't about the rules...It certainly
is...I just said I find it ironic that you want to play junior disc jockey with
NOAA weather broadcasts.

WHERE in LA County can you go and NOT hear an NOAA broadcast, Dieter?

If their transmitters fail, ANYWHERE! :-)

And when was the last time one failed and caused a problem?

Remember that Mr. Cross's comment was the same when the issue of a
communications emergency was brought up. However, is your question even
relevant? It doesn't matter that I can hear up to 5 NWS transmitters where I
may be. The issue was with regard to the retransmission rule. To retransmit,
it first must be heard (obviously).

And if you can hear it, what's the purpose of retransmitting it?

I've been in Mojave, up to Bishop and down in Imperial County and was
never out of earshot of an NOAA weather station...and THAT was in the late 80's
and early 90's. I used to sit in the Marine Expeditionary Airfield shelters
with my HT and copy NOAA.

And having BEEN in SoCal, I am intimately aware at how congested most of
the 2meter band is...All we need is for Uncle Same to "green light" the
rebroadcasts you suggest to have a whole band full of junior weathermen...What
next? Health reports on Ashley and Mary-Kate?

The Olsen Twins are not in the rules. NWS weather transmissions are. I leave
it to you to get the rules amended to add them if that's what you really want.

No, I leave it to YOU to get the rules ammended to what YOU want.
Right now automatic rebroadcast of NWS transmissions is NOT legal.

73

Steve, K4YZ