RadioBanter - View Single Post

August 22nd 04, 09:11 PM

In article , PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

N2EY wrote:
These are the number of unexpired FCC ARS
licenses held by individuals on the dates listed:

Some people have difficulty accepting the obvious.

Things are not made popular by making them easy. Things are not made
popular by giving them away.

Some things are. Ham radio licenses aren't one of those things.

A reasonably intelligent person can learn
the tests, the old "hard tests" tests or new "easy tests".

All license classes have been earned by kids not yet in middle school. Of
course they were bright kids in supportive ham families but they still had
to
pass the tests on their own. Claims of "fraud" by a nonamateur
nonwithstanding.

It doesn't matter. If a person has to spend a few more weeks learning
something, so be it.

It won't chase them away.

It doesn't matter if there is a Morse code test or not. Not one little
bit.

Too many people seem to have thought that elimination of the Morse
code test would bring an influx of new eager hams. It will not.

Not a sustained one, anyway.

If you think that elimination of the Morse test will help, You are
wrong. If you think that retention of the Morse test will help, you are
wrong.

Karl, for all his bluster, has no more clue about what will attract new
people to the field than most PCTA's. He and the other CW haters simply
hate CW, and rationalize their hatred into "Ham radio will die unless we
get rid of the test.

"Karl"? WHo is he?

Mea culpa there! I meant Carl. I had just read one of Bruce's posts
before I wrote the post.

Carl could be quite abrasive, too. He has cleaned up his act quite a bit.
Wish I could say the same for Bruce...

Too bad we can't say the same for "Quitefine."

Why are you hiding under a pseudonym?

Some time back I posted the experiences of a middle-school teacher and
Scout
leader here in EPA. He described first-hand how young people react to
Morse
Code and ham radio. Unlike what we've been told by some, he says young
people
are not driven away by Morse code or the tests. His experiences are not
unusual.

I don't doubt it, kids are incredible learning machines.

Adults too.

It seems to me that the people who have the most trouble with code tests
are much older....

Oh yeah!

Anything that needs rationalized is probably wrong to begin with. And
they are wrong to begin with.

You probably agree so far. You won't soon.

The difficulty or lack of "difficult tests" or the Morse code test
likewise has *no* effect whatsoever on the quality of the Ham community.

It's not about difficulty. It's about knowledge.

Ahh, what *does* grow Ham radio?

Hams grow Ham radio.

And an awful lot aren't doing it.

Bitching, whining, and moaning about the good old days and how much
better hams were then is only going to chase new people away. If I were
the sensitive sort, I would have quit Ham radio ten times over. I've had
to listen to Olde Tymers complaining about how only jerks and CB'ers are
joining the ranks, and how anyone can become an Extra nowadays. I've
listened to them claiming that all new Hams are stupid, and other
insults thrown at the new guys. At one time, I would gently remind them
that "I resemble that remark", but that gets old after the umpteenth time.

I agree! But this is not a new phenomenon.

I agree. I've often noted how incredibly angry middle aged and older
men can get about almost anything.

Not just men.

How is "Quitefine" taking it? :-)

Answer me this, is that an inviting atmosphere? How many people enter
hobbies to be ridiculed?

BINGO

Hams *must* provide a welcoming atmosphere, not inject their own
personal preferences into the mix, and take these new people and show
them they are valued on the air. Then word of mouth will spread among
the technologically inclined, and we won't have to be discussing how to
grow Ham radio.

But that door swings both ways. How many insults from newbies must an OT
endure before giving the same back?

Five?...... ;^)

You know I advocate good manners always. In most cases, the newcomer can
be reigned in. Of course there are always exceptions:

Yep. Newcomers like "lenover21"....

Riiiiight..."newcomers" who were WORKING HF 51 years ago.

Where was Jimmie 51 years ago? And what has he done in
radio since? Been just an amateur?

I recall a discussion some time back where a newcomer wanted to know of a
simple, all-band, compact high performance HF antenna. Knowedgeable folk
tried
to explain that you can't have all of those things at once. Newcomer said
that
the OTs were simply not imaginative enough. OTs said it's basic physics.
Newsomer said OTs were lazy and stupid, and if they *really* knew anyhting
about radio they'd have solved the problem long ago. Just kept going
downhill
from there.

How much of that should an OT take?

That newcomer was a horses ass for sure. But you run into those once in
a while. Odd that a person that knew that if experienced users knew
anything, they would know how ot bend the laws of physics! If he knew,
he would already know how to make that WonderAntenna!. But I don't think
that diminishes my point. Smart Young Pup syndrome exists everywhere,
and Ham radio is no exception. Old timers should know better, and we
should "suffer the newbies" for Ham radio's sake.

Of course. Sometimes the best method is to simply ignore the behavior.
Point is, however, that those who get such responses for their attempts to
help are much less likely to help out next time.

Oh? The "spirit of helping" evaporates after someone else
harasses them? Tsk, tsk.

So...what do you do about harassers? Just ignore them like
you usually do?

I went through a somewhat-similar exercise with antenna information here on
rrap. Took me a few go-rounds to realize that no matter what I did, the
newcomer would be overly critical, and reject all my options and suggestions.
I think his real motive was to waste my time and try to make me look bad. So I
just quit playing that game.

Tsk, tsk!

Real gods of radio (PCTA extras) should NEVER have their
precious time "wasted!" They are too important?

Besides, it is a little bit of fun to watch them fall on their faces
after the confrontation. Then they tend to fall in line - and no "I told
you so's" please!

Or they walk away.

They don't walk away.

The Morse code test could disappear tomorrow, and as long as Hams
encouraged a welcoming atmosphere that encouraged quality, we would get
quality. The test could be retained, and as long as newcomers could have
a reasonable expectation that they would have a good experience, then
the hobby would grow.

We must heal ourselves!

Well said, but I think it's even more basic. Dee said it best: People
aren't
attracted to what they don't know about. Or something similar. Most people
today don't even know amateur radio exists. Or they confuse it with cb.

And if we let them know about it, they become interested, and the first

thing they hear is how stupid new hams are and how BPL is going to
destroy Ham radio so you might as well hang it up, and how they are no
better than a bunch of CB'ers? "Knowing" of *that* is no positive thing.

Apply that same thought to those who go around saying the Morse Code test is
so unfair, it's so hard to learn, the mode is antiquated, buggy-whip
comparisons, etc.

Morse code testing IS unfair.

The mode IS old, slow, and prone to human error.

No other radio service uses morse code for any communications
purposes...or that service never specified its use when that
service was created.

Why do you insist that all amateurs recreate the past so much?

The idea of fishing is not just to let them see the bait. They must be
hooked and landed or else all is for naught.

To a certain extent. However, if someone is cajoled and spoon-fed too much,
they learn to be helpless in certain areas. Then they balme others when they
can't deal with a problem - or they just give up.

Is there a "balme" in Gilead? :-)

ARRL spoon-feeds amateurs what the ARRL wants them to know.

As a result, few amateurs know what happens in the outside world
of REAL radio.

So a balance is needed. And a positive attitude.

For a beginning of that, you (and "Quitefine") ought to learn that
others have differing opinions which are NOT "incorrect."

And the truth is that widespread deployment of BPL would pretty much make HF
useless for most of us hams.

Awwww... About one-third of all U.S. radio amateurs are NOT ALLOWED
on HF.

Are you so elitist that you would continue to disenfranchise one-third
of your own kind by refusing them HF operating privileges?

[rhetorical question...of course you would...QED thousands of your
postings in here...]

Remember Marie A's comment concerning eating and cake.