RadioBanter - View Single Post

October 1st 04, 06:03 AM

In article , PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,
(N2EY) writes:

Collins amateur gear was much less expensive than commercial or
military equipment of the same vintage, and more suited to typical
amateur use. Most hams are not going to be using their equipment at
+85 C or -55 C.

Tsk. Not playing the heroic instant Emergency Communicator,
ready for every emergency when the commercial infrastructure fails?

Riiiight...all ham activity happens at "normal room temperature."

Hi hi.

Now, Leonard -40F and -40C occur at roughly the same point. Have your
ever participated in amateur radio emergency communications outdoors
when the temp was -40?

I've been outdoors working when the temperature was -30 F.

Tsk. How could you stand it being that warm? :-)

Poor baby. Wear your long undies, did you?

Oh, that's right--you've never participated in
amateur radio emergency communications at all! Have you ever been
anyplace on this planet where the outdoor temperature sat at +85C?

...good question...

Try the inside of a vehicle when the outside air is 116 F (47 C) that
has been closed and sitting in the sun to add 40 C more to the
ambient.

Oh, I forgot...all ham "emergency operations" are done at Field
Day temperatures! [Field Day is an "emergency drill," right? :-) ]

There's also quite a bit of FM in use by hams on 10 meters. Plus FSK
is a form of FM...

"Real" hams use CW to DX on HF. Ho hum.

Ho humbug! You've little idea of what "real" hams do.

Let's take a look at those phrases:

Yes. Go over and over and over and over and over and over them
until you tire out the opposition to your golden words of truth and
beauty (which are never ever wrong). :-)

Let's at least go over them enough times that everyone except you
realizes your errors.

LHA: "All those subbands are simply for "staking out territory." "

That's my opinion and I'm holding to that.

You're simply wrong. Then again, you aren't a ham so perhaps you could
be excused for not knowing. Now that you've been advised, I'd expect
that you'd be sharp enough to keep from sticking with the same erroneous
view.

A person can hold any opinion they want. Len's stated opinion in this area is
not based on fact.

WRONG. INCORRECT. My opinions are based on FACTUAL
evidence of over a half century of observation.

If you don't like it, TS.

"Civil discourse" from Len...

If you don't like that remark, then more TS. I have a sharp TS punch
and will be glad to mark your TS card anytime.

Does that mean you'll cling to a position no matter how wrong you are?

Isn't that obvious?

Tsk. You guys are a couple of Clingons, bravely regressing to
early pioneer days when Kode was King...because that's all
any ham could come up with on a $100 "recycled parts" budget.

They were actually about creating an incentive to learn more theory
without losing access to a band or mode.

If that's your evaluation, then you are badly in need of something
to relieve your mental constipation.

No problem we can always treat ourselves to another dose of Dr. Len's
newsgroup salts.

Note that Len simply attacks an opposing opinion without any facts to
substantiate his attack.

WRONG. INCORRECT. My opinions are based on FACTUAL
evidence of over a half century of observation.

Since when is your religious BELIEF in the "need" of morse code
based on any "fact" of the year 2004?

Since when did you two Clingons become sole arbiter and judge of
what is "fact?"

LHA: "None of that elaborate U.S. subdivision would be possible
without the modern frequency synthesizers that were NOT developed for
amateur radio but adopted for that particular market."

That's a corollary to my subdivision opinion.

No, that's just you compounding your errors.

Again, if you don't like that opinion, TS for you. :-)

Why dontcha make us all use synthesizers? Did you read up on the phase
noise problem at any of those urls I provided?

I think Len would prefer that all of amateur radio be channelized.

WRONG. INCORRECT. My opinions are based on FACTUAL
evidence of over a half century of observation.

One of those observations is the NON-civil diss-cuss technique
of alleged mind-readers who imagine what I think. I've said
NOTHING about "channelizing" any ham band. But the FCC has
given U.S. hams five "channels" to play with.

Repeatedly proven to be incorrect, in error, and without any basis in
fact. Hams then and now are able to stay within their bands and
subbands without any need for "modern frequency synthesizers".

Oooooooo! "repeatedly 'proven' to be incorrect, in error and without
any basis in fact! Ooooooo. Tsk, tsk. :-)

An "Ooooooo" and a "Tsk, tsk" aren't much of a defense, are they?

Nope.

Defense? Hardly. Those are just little onomotopoetic phrases to
keep from breaking out in nursie yell-yells maniacal laughter at
the sobresides damning of NCTAs by you two Clingons. Hi hi )as
the emotionless hams do).

Geez, better get an Exorcist, you are going to proclaim me the
AntiChrist next. :-)

I'd expect the Antichrist to have his ducks in a row.

It is not clear to whom Len refers as "ivy-decorated in here". If he
is referring to me (Jim, N2EY), he's completely wrong, because I could
explain both PLL and DDS designs at length and in detail.

Riiiiight...you've got lots and lots of industry experience in that,
many products on the market...just like you were in the space
business so long that you could call others "wrong" about having
opinions opposite to your "expertise."

Whaddya know of Jim's industry experience, Leonard?

Neither HF rig in current use at N2EY is expensive or "ready built".
But they work, are on the air regularly, meet FCC regulations, and do
their jobs well.

I suppose next you have Proof of Performance papers, fully
notarized and witnessed, that they are ipsy-pipsy "within spec?"

Hams aren't required to have anything like that. If you don't like
it...

I can explain how they work in detail. I'll even draw you schematics
of the Southgate Type 7 from memory. (It ain't simple, either). Amazes
shack visitors of all ages and levels of technical ability.

Tsk. You've yet to explain that "Southgate Type 7." [other than the
unusual name] Does it appear in ham literature? In Nobel archives?

The name "Southgate" has certainly appeared in ham literature.

Indeed.

Then it should be in the ARRL Museum, yes?

Famous "names" need enshrining in the lore and mythos of the
pioneer days in radio...

Just my particular brand of fun in ham radio.

Trying always to be the Superior in anything is fun for the ego-
driven. Lots of PCTA extras in here (practically all of them) get
their jollies that way.

Only you can read "just my way particular brand of fun in ham radio" and
take it as a statement of ego-driven superiority.

What's wrong with any of that?

Nothing "wrong" with that other than taking over the flow of debate
with your pet fun-and-games and promoting morse well over and
above any valid reasons for keeping the morse code test.

The Morse Code test was not mentioned at all, but Len cannot see any other
issue.

Hello? The message thread title is "US Lincensing Restructuring ???
When ???" At stake are some 18 petitions sitting at the FCC waiting
for someone there to put together an NPRM. Most of those petitions
involve the retention or elimination of the morse code test.

Jimmie and Davie (those 'sweethearts') feel that folks in here must
talk ONLY about the subjects THEY approve of?

...as compared to your attempting to take over the flow of debate with
your pet fun and games and promoting the abolition of morse code testing
in an endeaver in which you play no part?

But, you consider yourself Superior and therefore "must" triumph
in all things. :-)

Don't you mean "but you've proven me wrong and I just can't abide that"?

bingo!

Tsk...I've not "been proven wrong," just issued the usual baseless
non-facts by PCTA determined to damn every NCTA they can
find.

The K2 has a single-loop PLL LO that achieves very low phase noise by
an ingenious design. This design intentionally trades off some
accuracy and general coverage reception in order to improve phase
noise, simplicity and power consumption. Its performance against
"ready built" transceivers costing much more is well documented.

Jimmie has a K2. Naturally it is "superior" to all others.

That's funny, I didn't see that written. Do you suppose it is
ego-driven as well?

Not by my ego...

1. Jimmie "designs and builds his own equipment."

2. Jimmie has often praised the Elecraft K2 that he built.

Conclusion: Jimmie is claiming design of the K2...yet his
name is not at the Elecraft company.

That's all in Google and there more than once. Jimmie will deny
it but there it all is.

It wasn't designed by Len. I doubt very much he understands how it
works, nor could he explain it....;-)

Jimmie designed the K2? :-)

Do try and stay with the flow. He said it wasn't designed by you.

Which is to say, none of them are perfect!

Len's errors here prove he's not perfect either...

Heavens...Jimmie wants PERFECTION in all things!

Don't you strive for perfection, Leonard, or are you happy with slapdash
design?

Naturally, PCTA extras are "always perfect" in everything?

I'm sure it seems that way to a guy like yourself.

Of course they are. They will tell you right off... :-)

Actually, telling you off isn't at all unpleasant.

"It just seems to write itself!" :-)

The fact that we amateurs are actually designing, building and using
rigs on the air seems to bother Len no end. The fact that we are using
equipment, modes and technologies he has not personally blessed seems
to bother him even more.

Doesn't bother me a bit. :-)

Not much, it doesn't.

I've still "done" modes, modulations far more than is allowed in the
U.S. ham bands. [that even includes CW, heh heh heh]

I don't think Len has operated using Morse Code.

Quite true. Most manual scalpels are metal, the RF Cauteries
use continuous wave, no keying. Operations are done with both.
The most "operating" I've done is removal of splinters. I'm not
allowed to "operate" on anyone by law. Are you two Clingons?

The spliners resulted from normal wear and tear remodeling this
house, a mere four rooms worth, that including a center room
workshop with a bench 104 inches long with five 19" racks (also
hand built) above and below the bench. And I'm not a licensed
cabinetmaker and never had to use morse code once to do any
of that remodeling. :-)

Why are you always living in the past?

It's a bit irritating when everyone uses verbatim sales ad phrasing
and OTHERS reviews as Gospel as if they themselves have used
and operated all the equipment they mention.

Well, let's see...

I've operated equipment made by Collins (S-line), Drake (4 line and 2B),
Heath
(SB line and various HWs, including HW-101 and -16), EF Johnson (Adventurer,
Viking 2, Valiant), Kenwood (TS-520, TS-820, TS-450, TS-940) Yaesu (FT-101
and
others) Icom (IC-735, IC-751, and a bunch of others), Ten Tec (Argosy,
Corsair
2, Omni D and V)....

And a bunch of others I can't recall offhand.

You seem to recall that "Southgate Type 7" fondly. :-)

Recycled 30 to 40 year old technology, all tubes...

Not chewing up or spitting out anybody, Dave. Just pointing out a few
errors of Len's. He makes it easy, really.

Isn't it awful? There oughta be a law against anyone having opinions
opposing the PCTA extras!

Your opinions were stated as fact--and they were incorrect.

Recall the original claims that started all of this, and how Len keeps
trying to avoid admitting his mistakes:

"All those subbands are simply for "staking out territory." "

That's my opinion and I'm staying with it.

...and I'm sure it is based in experience and a great deal of solid
research *grin*

"I doubt that even the most ivy-decorated in here could explain how to
make a PLL subsystem that achieves 10 Hz resolution using 10 KHz
references for their PFD. I wouldn't even bother asking them if they
knew how a DDS works... :-)"

Tsk. When I preparing to buy my Icom R-70 at the Van Nuys, CA,
HRO, I asked three hams behind the counter how Icom achieved
10 Hz resolution using a 10 KHz reference to all the phase-frequency
detectors. None of the three knew. Two of those were extras.

Yeah, they're sales types. They aren't engineers.

I got a copy of the Icom User's Manual and figured it out myself.
Looked like it was worth the money. Went back later and bought
one. Cash. It's been working fine ever since.

So, would it have worked fine since if you'd used a credit card?

Len walked into a radio store once upon a time and the salespeople couldn't
explain some technical point to his satisfaction. Some of those salespeople
held the Extra class license. Len's conclusion is that people who hold an
Extra class license don't know how radios work.

Poor baby, still feel hurt at not being "respected" for that vaunted
extra class status?

I was NOT thinking what you imagined. I was thinking that a sales
outlet that didn't know about its product nor could offer to help
potential customers find out, wasn't a very good business. To this
day I won't look to HRO for "technical answers."

I'll have to go back to old checkbook transactions to find the
purchase date (one has to be EXACT for Jimmie da Perfectionist).
Needless to say, DDS frequency control subsystems weren't yet
in the offshore-designed-and-made ham transceivers. [this statement
ought to be good for another few weeks of Jimmie "proving me wrong
in all things" :-) ]

For a twenty-something-year-old design, it isn't bad. It does suffer
from the same thing which plagued many Icom transceivers of its day--the
front end folds up in the presence of nearby strong signals.

It also won't transmit....

Duhhhh...receivers aren't designed or manufactured to transmit.

That's what transmitters do. They transmit.

Have you got that straight yet?

Of course, what we see here is another classic case of Len's behavior that can
be summed up in one sentence: Do as Len says, not as Len does.

Yeah. I believe in freedom and liberty and less-restrictive government
regulations. Independence of thought allowed, not restricted, and
separation of church and state continued so as to separate the
Church of St. Hiram from the FCC.

Tsk. I know that isn't in your ethos or mythos since you two Clingons
demand that ALL follow your example, doing as you did.

Why are you two Clingons so anal-retentive on holding everyone to
outdated standards and practices?