RadioBanter - View Single Post - Who Can Have A US License? Sequential Calls?

November 26th 04, 01:30 AM

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4YZ) writes:

KH2D, who has *been there* says differently. See his posts on the subject.

I read it.

He refered to "CBers" with Amateur licenses. He did not specify that
ther
were licenses obtained from VE exams held at foreign hamfests. Sounded to me
like "locals"...

Unless I'm mistaken, only an Extra can be a VE that gives Extra exams. So you
have a chicken-and-egg scenario about how such a setup could get started.

And I said that if he didn't get the desired results, he should push
it with DoJ.

And they would do what? It's an offense committed outside US territory and US
jurisdiction, unless it's at an embassy or similar place.

Yet we HAVE had more than a small number of VE test session right here
in
the US that WERE just that (license for sale). I am sure there have been
cases
of fines, but in most cases, revocation of of licensure for both "licensee"
and
"examiner" was the only penalty enforced.

And a US citizen cannot use a foreign amateur license in the USA. So the
penalty is much tougher on them.

That's not the point.

Sure it is.

You brought up how to enforce regulations on foreign Amateurs who may
allow some misconduct in the performance of a VE session.

And the answer is...

No where did I say ANYthing about using a foreign license in the United
States.

What I DID say was that in VE session right here at home, conducted
by
Americans, the "most" penalties usually enforced are license revocation of
both
the licensee and the "examiner".

Are you suggesting any GREATER penalty on a foreigner who commits the
same
crime?

Do you dispute this fact?

Cool down and think about the main point:

Besides the fact that it's just plain wrong, hams who live in US territory have
two reasons not to cheat as VEs:

1) If they're caught, they could face fines and even jail time

2) If they're caught, they could lose their FCC licenses, which means no ham
radio on US territory, and maybe none at all. Ever.

A nonresident alien with both a foreeign and US license doesn't face the same
possible consequences.

OK...then send a copy of the document to me and I'd be glad to sign on
as
a
co-sponsor. But right now there's not much to argue with since what's
going
on
appears to be legal and there's no other legal precedent for the FCC to say
"No, We won't accept license applications from non-resident foreign
nationals".

Don't need a precedent.

Sure you do.

Why would the government revoke ANY privilege unless there was some
misconduct or abuse of that privilege?

Because they think it's not a good thing for the ARS, or for radio in general.
Look at the multiple choice code tests - they were eliminated as part of the
2000 restructuring after many years of use - because hams complained that they
weren't doing the job.

If you force THAT issue, then "they" can adequately argue that there are
even far greater abuses right here at home and the whole program goes out the
window!

So?

Ya *really* wanna stir things up?

Imagine if FCC came up with a new callsign system, like this:

1) No more vanity calls
2) All CONUS callsigns begin with W
3) All non-CONUS callsigns begin with K
4) All nonresident callsigns begin with N
5) All special event callsigns begin with A
6) All callsigns indicate the geographic location of the licensee's
address.
If
you move across a call district boundary, you get a new callsign,
sequentially
issued, no choice.
7) Everybody gets a 2x3 call except Extras, who get the shorter calls,
sequentially issued, until they're used up.
8) If your present call matches the new system, you can keep it. Otherwise
you
get a sequentially issued new call on the next renewal. No choice of the
new
call.

Can you imagine the uproar?

Since when has creating an up-roar been un-American...?!?!

Actually, Here's MY idea.

All new callsigns are assigned a 2x3 callsign, regardless of class,
period. All existing calls stay the same unless the licensee requests a
change
which they pay for.

Right away I can hear the yelling.

Why? If it's someone "new", they will have never known any other
way...and
I specifically stated that all those already licensed would not be forced to
make any changes.

Because the new folks would be subject to conditions that the existing hams
didn't face.

The FCC continues to offer the different "Group" callsigns, but if the
licensee wants a call other than what was issued, they pony up the
change...No
more "sequential" calls other than the 2x3 they were issued.

hooboy

Why? Do you walk up to Burger King and just take the food?

Fee-for-service is the way of the future if we continue to enact tax
cuts.

How much service is required to issue a sequential callsign?

If you move across a call district line, you either apply for a call
in
that district, or you are obligated to sign "portable", "stroke", "mobile",
etc
that call district. There are both enforcement and "good operating
practice"
issues therein.

So I'd have to start signing "N2EY/3" after more than 20 years of not having
to
do so from here? That's effectively lengthening the call to a 2x3

And no one looking for a 2-land call would wind up working someone in
PA!

Is that *really* such a problem? Many of the rarest states are in call
districts that contain a lot of states, so even if that rule were reenacted the
hunt is only slightly reduced.

How about we make it even easier: Carve up the callsign blocks into
state-specific ones so you could tell which exact state someone was in just
from the call. For example, in the 3rd call district, all calls with an M, R or
Y in the suffix could be restricted to Maryland only, all calls with D, E or L
could be restricted to Delaware, and all the rest would go to PA. (Adjust as
needed for population variation) So you could just look at a callsign and know
which state the ham was in.

"dadididadit didididadah" takes about 1 second extra at 20WPM. Big
deal.

It is when you do it a couple thousand times in a weekend.

Would I have to pay the fee to get a 3 land call?

What did I say?

What if all the 3-land 1x2s are gone?

Ominus Feces Occurum. There'd be 3-laders living in FL and other places
force to give up their "out-of-dictrict" calls too.

Right. Somebody who's been a ham for 60+ years and held the same call, then
moved to SFL 15 years ago would have to give it up or sign portable. Thanks a
lot.

The actual cost of the licensing program would go down since the FCC
would
no longer be issuing tons of "sequential" callsigns gratis, and fees
collected
would go up since you couldn't get any other format of call without ponying
up
the change to do so.

Issuing sequentials costs almost nothing because the computer simply spits
them
out automatically.

Still costs time to attend the computer, input the data, and pay for the
actual forms and postage.

No more time than the basic modification.Which are free anyway.

Of course it'll never happen, because the admin paperwork alone would be a
nightmare. Plus the vanity revenue would go away.

The paperwork would go down since they'd no longer be getting 605's at
every change of class of license or address change

whoa!

5 years ago I moved from 19082 to 19087. Still EPA, no callsign change would
have been required under any rules. Yet I had to send in a 605.

You're the one talking about changes to the rules.

How's this for example: "Where a change of address is requested and no
other change of callsign would be required due to location within the same
call
district, attaching a copy of the letter of notification sent to the
Commission
to the original station records shall be considered adequate. A change of
address on the original license document will be reflected upon the next
routine renewal or paid license transaction."

No good. FCC is supposed to know how to contact licensees. That's why they need
some sort of current address.

They can find your transmitter by DF ing, but to send you a letter they need an
address. Or at least a PO box.

and the fees would go up
since they were no longer issuing (save for the initial call) gratis
licenses.
And the FCC would be getting paid to process what extra paperwork they DID
receive.

But do vanity fees go to FCC or to the general fund?

Againn, Jim, you're the one suggesting changes...

I'm pointing out that your proposed changes would increase admin work that
serves "no regulatory purpose". Making my search for WAS easier isn't FCC's
job.

73 de Jim, N2EY