"U Know Who" wrote in
message ...

"DR. Death" wrote in message
...
"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 23:58:04 -0600, "DR. Death"
wrote in
:

"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message
news On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:41:08 -0600, "DR. Death"
wrote in
:

"Gulf Coast Tony" wrote in message
. com...
I agree it's high time to bust the non type accepted radio
dealers.
CB
is most fun when using real CB stuff. Any idiot can run high
power
to
clobber a channel. Whats wrong with using 4 watts and a nice
antenna?
I'm not a ham. I am a CB'er. There's nothing wrong with enjoying
this
hobby. Lets just do it the right way. Here's a few places that
deal
in
10 meter radios and amps for 11 meters. I don't know what we the
law
abiding CB community can do about it. The sooner the FCC does
their
job the better for all of us. Then maybe the fools that scream
"AUDIO"
and cuss and foul up the channels will be gone !

73'3
Tony
http://www.copper.com/
http://wholesalecbradio.com/
http://www.gijoesradioelectronics.com/
http://www.geocities.com/macscbshop/CB_Equipment.html
http://www.bellscb.com/
http://www.rrcom.com/welcome.html

P.S......we should also do business with those honest dealers
that
DON't sell modified radios and amps. Here's a couple.

http://www.universal-radio.com/
http://www.alfenterprises.com/

That won't stop the people from cussing and keying down to jamb
channels,
fools are fools regardless of the equipment, that's the same as
saying
there
would be no murders if we outlaw guns.


Yes, assholes will be assholes regardless of the equipment that's
available. The problems started just after the Citizen's Band was
created, and they aren't going away anytime soon. But that's no
excuse
to add to the problems with more amps.


I never stated we should add more amps.


You were defending the sale of illegal radio equipment which, if I'm
not mistaken, includes amps. The fact is that if there were fewer amps
there would be fewer idiots using them. Same with guns. But guns are
legal while CB amps are not. Neither are modified and 'export' radios.
But legal or not, the same rule applies -- the fewer that are in
circulation the fewer that will be in use.


Where did I state in this post that I defended the sale of exports or
amps?
I stated that eliminating amps would not eliminate fools on C.B.

Sometimes 4 watts is not enough. When
I go mudding in my truck, sometimes I'm in places with no cell
service
and
kicking on the amp saves me from walking 10 miles if I break down
or
get
stuck.


Get a 3-watt cellphone. I have a Uniden SMS-316TSD in my truck and
it
works great. Coverage is almost 100% (that is unless you are going
deep into the Bitterroots, in which case it pays to get a satellite
phone).

There are many places in my neck of the woods where a 3 watt cell
phone
still won't work.


I don't know if where you live is anything like the Rockies or the
Cascades, but you don't have to walk far to find a spot that will work
even with a handheld cellphone. In the deep woods, CB seems to be more
reliable than cellphones anyway -- you can usually raise a logging
camp or ranger post no matter where you are. But if you plan to go
into such remote places where normal services don't work, it's your
responsibility to anticipate an emergency and provide for legal
communications.


In a perfect world, yes. But I guess you carry every part that fits your
vehicle when you leave the house.


And 4 watts on Ch. 9 will reach 10 miles without a problem if
you have a decent antenna because there is very little noise on the
channel. So I don't see your reasons as justification for an amp.


Channel 10 is our local channel in this area. A lot of the locals with
clipped limiters and amps can bleed enough that from 10 miles 4 watts
won't
always get me help, particularly when I'm in a river bottom surrounded
by
bluffs.


If you are getting that much interference in a radio dead-zone then it
isn't much of a radio dead-zone, is it? And if the other end of your
comm can't seperate your fundamental from all the QRM then just how
'remote' is this place? Doesn't seem that remote to me. It sounds like
you are just making excuses.

Your more than welcome to go fishing, hunting, 4 wheeling with me and
bring
your cell. It might be usefull for telling time but useless to talk on
in
some places that I frequent. You obviously live in an area with great
cell
coverage. I do not. You are looking for excuses to argue.


I also like to shoot skip on sideband and the best place for that
is
the freebands.


The best place for that is the ham bands.

If your a ham which I am not. If the FCC would have allocated part of
the
C.B. band to SSB only, maybe the freband would be less attractive.


It's not hard to get a license. It's been done by hundreds of
thousands -- maybe millions -- of people around the world.

I never stated that it was hard. I have looked at the sample test
questions
and have no doubt I can pass.

And the upper portion of the legal 40 is mostly used for SSB. The FCC
didn't declare this rule, but neither did they declare Ch. 9 as the
emergency channel. In fact, Ch. 9 used the be the 'calling' channel
while other channels were used for emergencies in different zones. It
wasn't until about 1970 that Ch. 9 was universally adopted by the CB
community as the emergency channel. Anyway, it doesn't take a
declaration from the FCC to work SSB anywhere on the legal 40. What
the FCC -has- declared is that operation outside the legal 40 -- i.e,
the so-called 'freeband' -- is illegal.

I have used the upper 40 on SSB. But found that many people talk AM on
those
freqs. which makes it hard to use SSB for DXing. You can wave the
illegal
flag all you want, I will still use the freeband.

The 'freeband' is attractive because many people want a license-free
ham band. They want the benefits without the responsibility or the
effort. It's that simple.


You can run illegally and still be responsible about it.


That's an old and tired excuse. You can't violate the law and be
responsible at the same time -- it's an oxymoron. Think about it:

"You can spit on the sidewalk and still be responsible about it."
"You can speed in the freeway and still be responsible about it."

When my 3 year old grandson drank a bottle of furniture polish, I felt
fully
justified exceeding the speed limit to get him to the hospital. I
didn't
cut
anyone off or force them off the road to do so. I consider that a
responsible breaking of the law.


Ambulances (and other emergency vehicles) have lights, sirens and
reflective paints to provide a measure of safety while they drive
faster than the speed limit, and sometimes even those measures don't
work. So what makes you think you were being responsible by speeding
to the hospital without such measures? You endangered the life of your
son, yourself, and other people on the road. You took a chance with
other people's lives and you got lucky. That's not being responsible.

You can wait on the ambulance if you choose. I live in a rural area and
by
the time the ambulance arives I can already be in the ER. I just hope
you
are never in this situation. Or maybe you just don't care enough about
your
family to expidite them to the hospital.

If you had called for emergency assistance they probably would have
sent out paramedics that could have treated your son at the scene, and
arrived faster than you made it to the hospital. Of course I expect
your next excuse is that you live in a remote location that takes too
long for emergency vehicles to respond, or that there's no place for a
helicopter to land near your home, or some crap like that. But those
are just excuses. The fact is that 911 can provide specific info over
the phone on whatever poison you have laying around your house, and
provide instructions that can render immediate aid. And because many
poisons work fast, that information not only saves lives but prevents
excessive injury when the poison is non-fatal. Now THAT would have
been the responsible thing to do instead of speeding to the hospital.


Yes a chopper could land in the field behind my house. The chopper
happens
to be 40 miles from here. Again I can already be in the ER.

Unfortunately, most people don't think about those things until it's
too late.

And some people wait for EMS and they are too late.

"You can burglarize a house and still be responsible about it."
"You can murder someone with a gun and still be responsible about
it."
(and before you condemn me for that last analogy, remember that it's
the same analogy -you- used earlier in -your- post).

NO, I stated that eliminating guns would not stop murder. People were
killing each other long before firearms were invented. I simply used
that
anology to point out that eliminating amps would not stop foolish
behavior
on the C.B.


Don't backpedal -- you equated illegal radio equipment with guns so I
did the same. You claimed that you violate laws responsibly, an excuse
that anyone can see is hogwash when using -your own- analogy. Don't
you understand that 'law' is a method of enforcing responsibility?
Basically, law -is- responsibility in a written form. The only way to
'responsibly violate' a law is if there is a more important (and
legally justifiable) responsibility. Rushing your son to the hospital
would have been such an example if there were no better alternatives.
Regardless, 'freebanding' hardly compares with a medical emergency.

Never stated that freebanding equals a med emergency.
You missed my point entirely. I could try to explain it again, but you
only
see things in black and white.



It just doesn't wash.


And it still doesn't wash.


I do
everything I can to make sure I am not coming over phone lines and
bleeding
on several channels. I don't use junk export radios, I use low pass
filters
and I check my equipment with a scope. I don't run power unless I
really
need to. BTW, Copper no longer sells amps.


It's not just about RFI. It's also about the hogging of a channel by
a
single dork with an amp. If you increase your power enough to double
your range, you are cutting off the channel over an area that could
accomodate at least six other people. Double your range again and
you
cut off 36 -more- potential users. The numbers rise exponentially,
and
so does the frustration of legal "mud-ducks" trying to talk to
someone
just down the road.

If I am stranded I'm sure that the C.B. community would understand
that
I
had to break into the regular chit chit long enough to get assistance.
I
rarely use an amp for AM regular 40. I do sometimes use it on
freebands
to
shoot some skip on SSB. If they were legal mud-ducks, what are they
doing
on
the freebands?


I was talking about amps, but we can talk about the 'freeband', too.
For example, the word 'freeband' is a misnomer. It is not 'free'. That
part of the spectrum has been allocated. Part of it is a buffer zone
above Ch. 40, and the rest is allocated for private and government
services. Freebanders use those freqs because they claim not to hear
any activity, which is a logical fallacy -- if freebanders are using
those freqs then it's impossible -not- to hear activity. The next
excuse is that none of the activity heard is from -licensed- users,
which is another fallacy because those freqs are licensed to be used
(or not used) as the licensed "mud-ducks" see fit. IOW, just because
you don't hear any licensed activity doesn't mean the freqs have been
abandoned. If that were the case, 121.5MHz would be a very popular
'freeband' freq.

Never stated that they were abandoned. I know who has legal access to
the
freebands. And it is not licensed mud-ducks.

Using an amp is not just illegal; it's rude, inconsiderate, and it's
not how the CB band was intended to be used. If you can't resist the
temptation to play hammie then get a license and work the ham bands.

I don't consider it rude to use an amp to get help.


And that's another favorite excuse. The FCC determined that use of
illegal equipment for emergencies is only justified if there is no
other means available AND the emergency could not have been
anticipated and prepared for by other means. IOW, if you know you are
going into the deep woods where a cell phone won't work and a legal CB
won't work, it is your responsibility (yes, I said 'responsibility')
to anticipate the possibility of an emergency and have a plan for
legal communications. This was decided in response to a petition by
someone trying to void the 155 mile rule by using the same excuse. The
FCC didn't buy it, and I don't either. Cell phones cover most of the
US. Satellite phones work darn near anywhere except in caves. Ham
radio is available from 160m through microwaves, and they even have
their own satellite repeaters. There is no valid reason to plan on
using illegal radio operation for emergencies when better and legal
alternatives exist.

How much do you pay a month for your satt phone Frank? Must be nice to
have
that much money to burn.

If more hams were to educate C.B.ers on the benifits of becoming a ham
instead of treating us like we are the spawn of Satan, maybe I would
get
my
ham ticket. Most of the hams that I have met have been quite rude and
I
don't wish to waste my time and money on a hobby I don't think I would
enjoy.


Not all hams are rude. On the contrary, most hams that I have met are
quite agreeable. They are people, just like everyone else. And I don't
know why you wouldn't like ham radio when that is basically what you
are doing already on the 'freeband'. The only difference is that you
would be doing it legally. Does that take the fun out of it for you?

No it doesn't. It may very well be fun. In fact there are a lot of good
things I would like about ham radio, mostly the tech side. I didn't
state
all hams are bad, just the ones I have talked to, they tend to treat
C.B.ers
as second class citizens and I won't be a part of that.

I'm sorry I razzed you about St. Louis. :-)

LOL that's quite allright. Don't think I wouldn't be gloating if we won.