Bob Bob wrote:

I have been often suspicious of toroidal baluns (loss etc). I might make
one and plug it into the network analyzer at work to test.

Try it in the real world. That's the best test. I use a 4:1 (feeding a low lop)
for a different reason. It makes my TS870 auto tuner 'happy' and allows
autotuning from 40 thru 10. Coax feed works fine, as does direct (no balun) open
wire feed using an external tuner, but that requires retuning on each band, and
I like to band hop. But my bandswitching laziness is not the point. The point is
that I've tried numerous balun in-out tests on the air and have yet to find
anyone on the other end that could tell a difference. I know there is loss
because the balun does get warm on some bands, but apparently it is not
detectable on the other end - which is what counts in the final analysis. So
don't take these guru's "don't do this/that with a bulun" too seriously. Try it.
If it works, well....it works...