From: Dave Heil I_RULE_ham_radio.Org.Asm on Fri, Mar 18 2005 11:01 am


wrote:

From: Dave Heil on Thurs, Mar 17 2005 4:49 am
wrote:


That's right, Len. There are far fewer blacks than whites in
amateur
radio in the United States. Amateur radio in the U.S. is open to
anyone.

You've "never" asked yourself (or anyone else) WHY that
is?

Why no, Len, I've never asked myself what amateur radio in the U.S. is
open to anyone. Seems reasonable to me.

Tsk. The question was WHY ARE THERE SO FEW BLACKS
(african-americans) IN U.S. AMATEUR RADIO?

Stay with the program.


I've not been tasked with being the official explainer of things, Len.

Tsk. You've "tasked yourself" busy big control person.

You seek "control" of who can post in here and who
cannot. shrug

Amateur radio in the United States is pretty much a white man's hobby.

OK, agreement.

The corollary question is, "WHY IS U.S. AMATEUR RADIO SO
PREDOMINENTLY WHITE."

Let's ask a second question on demographics: WHY IS IS
PREDOMINENTLY MALE?

The majority of the membership is white.

Don't belabor the obvious. Explain WHY.


When I lived in Sierra Leone, the majority of the Sierra Leone League
of
Amateur Radio was black. The minority was white. Go figure.

DOS Tip: "Sierra Leone" is NOT a state of the United
States.

I can write the following:
When I lived in Japan, the majority of the population
was Asian.
That doesn't pertain to the question. [do you understand
the analogue or haven't you taken your Alzheimer's
medications yet?]

It was different in Botswana.

Tsk. "Botswana" isn't a state in the United States.

The question concerns the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and
the hobby activity called amateur radio.


You're starting to remind me of Brian Burke.

You have a serious problem in getting along with anyone
thinking differently than you do.

You have a serious problem in discussing anything that
is opposite to your own opinions.

Discussion of ALL SIDES of any question should be OPEN
and NOT restricted to some little clique of elitists
who self-righteously proclaim their "ownership" of some
activity.

Both Brian and I have opinions OPPOSITE to yours...yet
you feel compelled (perhaps obsessed) with a need to
attempt denigration and/or defamation of us because
we (and many others who appear from time to time) have
opinions differing from yours.

See above, little wizended Lennie.

Tsk. Attempts at name-calling. Improperly spelled.

Try to concentrate on the SUBJECT instead of
name-calling those with opposite opinions.

The USA does NOT include Sierra Leone nor does it
include Botswana. It includes Wheeling, West
Virginia, but Wheeling is just one city out of
thousands in the USA.


I didn't write that I'm upset.

Tsk. You always SEEM so upset when encountering any
opposite opinions.


I got with the program starting in 1963.

WHAT "program?"

That can't be amateur radio. U.S. amateur radio does
not allow broadcasting. [see another thread largely
of name-calling by anonymous geeks getting their jollies
off]

Tsk. "Get with the program" is a colloquial EXPRESSION,
common in American English. :-)

Tsk, tsk. In 1963 I was working (in the USA) designing
electronics for the Grumman Intruder radar pre-flight
check-out set (Ku-band, portable battery-powered). Not
a hobby and very much involved with microwave radio.

Well, this discussion has you.

"Has you" what? Try completing a sentence properly.


Nobody may force me to like you.

Not a requirement, self-righteous self-professed
ruler of ham.

Tsk. You are going to have to LIVE with the fact
that many viewing your arrogant postings in here
do NOT "like you."

You MUST live with the fact that controversial subject
discussion does NOT require capitulation to the
opinions of yours...not even when you are an extremist
in self-righteousness.

[supposedly the State Department does that all the
time...called "diplomacy," something that you've NOT
displayed in any posting in here]

The SUBJECT is
(or should be) the discussion point...NOT the
person or personality of whover YOU disagree with.

Please try to remember that.

I try to remember that, even when some ex-government
employees use phrases like "little wizended lennie"
as a response to me.

U.S. amateur radio was NOT created especially for
Dave Heil to enjoy.

I figured that was the case when I became interested.

Why did you lose that realization?


Unlike you, I have a stake in amateur radio.

A wooden one?

You feel you MUST control what all newcomers are
required to do to obtain an amateur radio license.
Why is that? What compells you to attempt acting
like you are "authority" on licensing?

There is only ONE authority on licensing radio
amateurs in the USA and that is the FCC. You are
NOT a member of the FCC.


Neither are you an FCC Commissioner or staffer.

Tsk. You manufacture a strawman again. I've never
claimed to control radio licensing in the USA.

Since Dave Heil is NOT a member of the FCC, he does
not have ANY authority on radio amateur licensing
matters in the USA. [Sierra Leone and Botswana are
not in the USA]

This week you've told us that you are not
interested in becoming a radio amateur.

Irrelevant. Next week I may change my mind. [next
week I may be in a foreign country...such as
Sierra Leone or Botswana... :-) ]

Becoming a LICENSED radio amateur carries with it NO
requirements of adopting a strict "life style" of
amateurism or any obeyance of some old "code" of
conduct published by a membership organization. One
does NOT need to "take vows" or "swear an oath" to
uphold some artificial traditions, jargon, patois,
standards and practices of older times. Amateur
radio is a de facto HOBBY. [it is NOT de jure a
"hobby" in regulations but that is just legislative
language cum political speak to satisfy a minority
of over-inflated traditionalist amateur lifestylers]

I am a professional in radio-electronics and have
been one since 1952. I am also a hobbyist in many
different phases of radio-electronics and have been
so involved since 1947. I have been most fortunate
to do work in many different areas of electronics and
radio and have a personal fascination with nearly all
aspects of that broad technological field.

You insist on defining "radio" as ONLY that of radio
amateurism...as YOU know it. Sorry, that isn't
acceptible to the entirety of the radio-electronics
world. Neither does anyone HAVE to "demonstrate any
interest" by becoming a LICENSED radio amateur FIRST.



How arrogant is the posturing of the type of personality which is
uninvolved in an avocation in which he plays no part as a participant
or
regulator? Talk about the need to control...

Tsk. The control-freak is angry at being called out
on how he appears to all others? That is you, Dave
Heil.

The First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution states that
all U.S. citizens have the RIGHT to petition their
government for the redress of grievances. That is NOT
"posturing." It extends to EVERY law, regulation made
by the U.S. government.

The FCC regulates U.S. amateur radio. The FCC is the
final authority on what is required to obtain an amateur
radio license. The ARRL has NO such authority. Dave
Heil has NO such authority...but Dave Heil postures and
preens AS IF he did. Tsk, tsk.


You aren't a participant in amateur radio. You have no stake in it.
You currently claim that you do not desire to become a participant.
Yet
you attempt controlling of amateur radio.

Tsk, tsk. Advocacy in eliminating the morse code test
for any amateur radio license is "CONTROL?!?" :-)

Sorry, control-freak Dave Heil, that's simply a REQUEST
of a citizen, similar to tens of thousands of other
citizens who REQUEST the same thing. Not only is the
code test requirement old and out-dated, the FCC has
stated as far back as 1990 that the code test does not
matter to their purpose in determining whether any
prospective amateur should be granted a license.

NOWHERE in the various Parts of Title 47 C.F.R. is there
any "requirement" to "post bans" or submit any oath of
interest or lifetime vow in becoming "a participant"
through authorized (by the FCC) licensing. Neither is
there some strange perversion of the First Amendment
that allows ONLY "participating amateurs" to rule on
regulations!


You wish to shape it through
having regulations relating to morse code testing and the instituting
of
a minimum age requirement for licening.

INCORRECT. I've not pursued any "minimum age requirement"
in U.S. amateur radio since making that SUGGESTION to the
FCC in January, 1999, on the LAST page of a 14-page
Comment on docket 98-143 (see date of 13 January 1999 in
the FCC ECFS on that docket).

Tsk. A number of middle-aged PCTA extras keep bringing
that up and trying to imply it is something like Treason
Against The State! I've dropped that request, haven't
followed it through with REAL authorities, yet some
self-appointed "guardians of their turf" insist that I
am "constantly advocating age requirements!" :-)

Yes, I advocate an elimination of the morse code test.

Such will NOT affect ANY who are ALREADY LICENSED in
U.S. amateur radio! It does NOT affect their ability
to use what they ALREADY HAVE.


No, it isn't a CLUB at all, Leonard H. It is open to all races and
any
of the several genders.

Tsk. You FAIL to recognize the difference between
de facto from de jure.

There is NO discrimination on age or gender in the
regulations of U.S. amateur radio in Title 47 C.F.R.
[that's de jure]

There is an OBVIOUS discrimination in race throughout
the United States in regards to amateur radio
licensing...against blacks (african-americans).
[that's de facto] Observation, casual to studied,
of all amateur radio hobbyist photographs in
amateur publications of the last half century will
demonstrate that de facto condition.

There is a milder "discrimination" (of a sort) against
females in LICENSED amateur radio. That's also been
OBVIOUS but hasn't been much publicized since Harker's
informal study presented on the ARRL website.

Is it your view that it is my personal responsibility to recruit
blacks
into amateur radio whether they care to participate or not, Lennie
Anderson?

Tsk. I just asked a question. Can you EXPLAIN the
de facto condition of U.S. amateur radio being a
WHITE MAN'S CLUB?


What does your comment have to do with my being appointed by you to
recruit minorities, Lennie Anderson?

Well, DAVIE Heil, I've NEVER taken on some self-
appointed "authority" to "tell you what to do!"

[I cannot perform miracles...]

Considering your manner of "recruiting" ANYONE, you
are rather deficient in such a "recruiting" task.

Amateur radio is administered by the Federal Government.

Tsk. It is REGULATED by the federal government.


Minorities may participate. Participation isn't
mandatory.

Tsk, Tsk, TSK! DAVIE Heil has insisted and insisted
that ONLY those who "participate" in rule-making of
amateur radio MUST ALREADY have an amateur radio
license!

DAVIE Heil is acting the hypocrite.


Your de facto WHITE MEN'S CLUB isn't de fact at all.

[baaaad imitation of Amos or Andy... :-) ]

Tsk. You keep mixing up "de facto" with "de jure."

Those differences have been explained to you. Try
to keep up with your self-education.

Even you, could be a participant, little wizened Lennie.

Tsk. More of the "diplomatic charm" picked up while
"living in Sierra Leone or Botswana?" :-)


I'm sure that in retrospect, it seems idiotic to you now. I'll bet
you
wish you'd never made it.

No problem to me. I may say the same thing again. Or,
I may not. :-)

I'll be more specific. I do NOT intend to do so
this week. :-)


Around here, a man is only as good as his word.

"Around there" is NOT the center of the universe nor
of any "center of ethical/moral virtue." :-)

Maybe it is different out there on the left coast.

Where is this "left coast?" :-)

I live in the southwestern part of the contiguous
United States of America.

In fact, the state of California is, by far, the
most populous state in the union.

If you try for more of such disparaging geographic
comments, I'd say you were so unable to reply
that you've resorted to self-appointed BIGOTRY on
a personal insult level. Tsk, tsk, tsk.


Little wizened Lennie loves to uses words like "denigration". Is it
denigration to point out that you made your well known "Extra right
out
of the box" claim? Is it denigration to point to one of your factual
errors?

Tsk. More "diplomatic charm" with the phrase "little
wizened Lennie?" :-)

"Well known claim?" :-)

No problem to me. I may say the same thing again. Or
not.

I've taken and passed MANY "tests" in my career of a
half century in radio-electronics. MOST of them were
much more difficult than ANY amateur radio "exam"
given since 1952. I've tested, operated, DESIGNED
radio equipment of equal and FAR-more-complex nature
than amateur radio equipment. No problem to me to
take a little hobby-radio test. I just don't choose
to do so this week. :-)

I'm in a computer network newsgroup. That is NOT
amateur radio activity. No license is required. Yet
DAVIE Heil (who likes to beat up on "little wizened"
people - of his imagination) thinks I MUST have an
amateur radio license to be IN this newsgroup! :-)

You're adding two and two and coming up with the wrong answer. Bill
Sohl's opinions often differ from mine. I don't dislike Bill Sohl.

Did Bill Sohl participate in this thread? :-)

I do dislike you, little old piranha.

TS. :-)

If you mean
that I've made you the object of ridicule and sarcasm, that'd be
correct.

Tsk. Incorrect. You've ATTEMPTED to do so. :-)

Sorry, it hasn't worked yet. Better luck in the future.

Your grating, pompous manner makes you an inviting target.

Awwwwww...get the great "DAVIE" all upset again? :-)


Tsk. You're still an inviting target for ridicule and sarcasm.

No problem. I expected that when I first began posting
in here. :-)

Tsk. The "good ol' boys" of the WHITE MAN'S CLUB really
DO get all upset and ornery when their precious tree
house is invaded. :-)


What was the subject again, Len?

"Demographics in U.S. amateur radio."

Can't you CONCETRATE on SUBJECTS anymore?

Was it something about my liking worms?

Ah! Now it is clear on what YOU thought was the subject!

"Davie, Davie Hi-el...king of the wild ham bands!"

It seems to be all about Dave and his "battle" with
opponents (who do not love and respect his greatness).
As self-appointed "guardian" of all that is "holy"
in ham radio (i.e., whatever Dave likes), he must do
his "combat veteran" thing and FIGHT anything that
threatens CHANGE to his radio lifestyle! :-)

Understood. :-)