RadioBanter - View Single Post - Beware of hams planting dis-information...

May 11th 05, 01:06 PM

On Tue, 10 May 2005 16:03:16 -0400, (I
AmnotGeorgeBush) wrote:

(So you have been mistakenly telling us for years, yet, there is no
damper affecting those of us who play on it regularly for free or a few
paltry bucks..)

Illegally. Just as there are people who

trespass on private or otherwise posted land,

and never get caught either.

Physical trespass can carry a *criminal* charge..talking on the freeband
can not.

There are criminal provisions in the communications act of 1934. But
the point is that nothing will happen if you are never caught. But the
fact that you are not likely to get caught does not diminish the
illegality and societal irresponsibility of engaging in the acts.

Once again, this is the difference between what constitutes a
criminal act vs a civil act. The penalties are not the same.

But it's still illegal.

(shrug),,,,which has -never- been contested by anyone here, yet, for
some curious reason unbeknownst to all but yourself, you have taken it
upon yourself to assume status and annoint yourself some sort of
imaginary right to confront others concerning their non-criminal act.

The FCC rules do carry criminal as well as civil penalties should they
choose to apply them, if the case warrants it.

I would hedge zero times have you actually confronted a real criminal or
law breaker in the act and in person.

I certainly would if the opportunity presented itself.

Ask any cell phone company
owner/administrator.

Your selection of cell phone admins does not
discount the countless freebanders, cbers or
hammies who play on it for free or on the
extreme cheap.

Illegally,

And legally.

Hams and legal CB'ers perhaps. But not freebanders.

or on bands where public access is
set aside.

Or not. Don't forget many of the freqs that have been abandoned.

Abandoned does not mean "open". There are many abandoned buildings
around. But you are still not allowed to trespass there.

I'll
reiterate what you already found in google on many
occasion,,,,,education is the key.

Much like a public park.

Nothing like a public park, as breaking the law you speak of (trespass)
can result in criminal charges, unlike talking on the freeband.

Look at FCC regs again. There are certainly criminal penalties
associated with them. Ask your buddy "Bob-noxious" about the criminal
penalties associated with pirate radio.

This
concept has proved nearly impossible for you to grasp. Perhaps it
because you so vehemently disagree with the law.

Your whole justification revolves around your perception that unless a
law has serious, visible teeth, then it doesn't deserve our respect,
and we are justified in ignoring it. That is anti-social behavior.

They are the ones authorized to sell spectrum
to people with a legitimate need. It's no
different than government owned land.

Again, it is very different for many reasons, several of which you were
already taught.

Yes, it is different in some ways, but the ways
that are similar are what I am talking about.

But,,,,,,it's not

It's a fact that the FCC sells off chunks of
spectrum to commercial interests, sometimes
for outrageous amounts. If the FCC was not in
the position to claim "ownership" of that
spectrum, how could they auction it off?

By virtue of administration. Auctions are held daily all over the place.
They do not own what they auction, but like the FCC, are merely charged
with the administering of such.

Semantics.

No,,facts. You can't call facts you disagree with "semantics".

You want to talk about facts? The facts are that the FCC can and does
auction off chunks of spectrum to commercial entities to use. They
also regulate those chunks. They also set aside some spectrum for
"public use". Yes, they administer it, as an arm and representative
proxy of the U.S. government. So, while the FCC might not directly
"own" the airwaves, the U.S. government does.

Wrong again. The government has absolutey zero authority how I operate
my vehicle on my own lan and can not revoke my privilege to do so.

Right! On you own land. But venture out on .
the public street, and they have all the
authority. Same goes for radio.

Again,,,,,(sigh),,the analogy of the car is invalid as it can result in
criminal charges, while operating on the freeband does not.

Yes it can.

If you can somehow prevent your signal from
escaping the borders of your property (Which
is covered by FCC Part 15), you could do
what you want.

Know of any test cases pushing the limit on this law?

Pushing which law and in what way?

Transmitting, albeit, under the guise of part 15, to a much broader
audience than permitted.

Well, look into any "low power" pirate broadcaster. Some have tried to
claim that their power is legal (even if their antennas are not).

Once those signals escape into the public
venue, they are under the control of the
federal government.

How is such defined? If a church camp own 2500 acres and broadcasts over
such, and I sit on the public lake adjourning their property and can
tune in their broadcast..is it now simply approached as a public
broadcast?

Most of those situations employ carrier current
transmitters which radiate only a short
distance from their "antenna" wires, thereby
limiting range beyond the intended service
area. The biggest uses for this technique is on
.college campuses, travel, and road alert
systems.

Yes,,,but my question remains and is still valid.

The reality is that even a carrier current system needs to be
authorized by the FCC. So a radio system capable of covering a 2500
acre church camp would need FCC permission to operate.

As you know, RF degrades gradually and it is
impossible to "brick wall" stop a broadcast at
the limits of physical property. But unless you
are very close, you will likely not hear a carrier
current transmission.

Or on an unobstructed waterway with a visual on the proper/transmitter.

Another way to look at it, You own your car,
but not the roads you drive on.

Public means owned by the public,,,paid for by tax dollars.

And administered by the government.
You may own your radio, but not the airwaves
you broadcast on.

Neither does the FCC like you mistakenly believe.

For all practical purposes, yes they do in this
country.
You do not have a "right" to transmit beyond
the confines of your own property.

That is what the cb does.

Yes, but the authorization to operate a CB is a
"privilege", not a "right".
You are granted a "privilege" to do so by the
government in the proxy of the FCC.

This "privilege" is availabe to anyone, so how can it be referred a
privilege?

**Not true. You have to be a U.S. citizen, and
not convicted of other FCC rule violations.

Ok,,proverbially "everyone".

But it's not "everyone". Even though the CB radio service is
authorized by rule, there are still restrictions (albeit small) on its
use. It's not a "right", it's a "privilege".

*I know you elitist hammies believe this to be true about your ticket,
but it simply does not apply to cb, as practically any American citizen
is granted the "right" to broadcast, via a cb, simply by ownership of
one. This does not exactly equate to any "privilege".

Instead of arguing with me, try looking into the
rules governing each service, and find out for
yourself. Despite the relative ease by which a
person may operate a CB radio, it is still not a
"right" to do so, it is a privilege granted by the
FCC, as the service is authorized by rule,
even if a license is not required.

And if that law were serious, one would NOT be able to buy, plug and
play. What stops an immigrant from using a cb? Nothing,,they all se them
in the fruit fields.

This is true, the FCC isn't checking the immigration status of every
CB operator, and it won't come up unless the person is cited for other
rule violations. It's sort of like the seatbelt law in many states.
You can't get stopped for it alone, but if you are stopped for another
violation, they can cite you for failing to wear a seatbelt at the
same time.

Again, it seems that you justify ignoring rules based on the
unlikelihood of being cited.

As a
condition of that privilege comes your
responsibility to abide by the rules set fort in
various FCC parts depending on which
service you are using.
You may not like it, but that's the way it is.

Actually, I love the manner in which the FCC enforces radio law right
now and have said so on many occasion.

Sure. The FCC is not as effective as they
should be, and freeload.... er, freebanders get
away with trespassing on other government
administered frequencies with little chance of
getting caught. But that doesn't mean that it's
legal or proper.

Again, not one person ever made such a claim in all my years of visiting
thse pages. Just who is it you are trying to convince?

But you guys who are operating illegally are using all sort of excuses
to justify or downplay this illegality. The fact that the FCC isn't
actively pursuing freebanders, is not a justification or a silent nod
allowing you to operate there.

They rightly and deservedly go
after those they deem the most important and damaging to our hobby.

You mean those who project the highest
profile, or those who impact operators who
paid dearly for the right to use their part of the
spectrum.

Those who present a direct safety issue.

Very few people fall into this category.

It
is yourself that does not like the "way it is" nor agree with it.

Well, that's true. I do wish the FCC had more
teeth.

They have plenty of teeth. Their bite is interested in chomping away
with censorship of television.

It's much easier for them to enforce. They don't have to track down
anyone. They can administer from their offices.

Dave
"Sandbagger"
http://home.ptd.net/~n3cvj