Sounds to me that many here have confused the idea of "a decent human
being" with a "ham"... true, the best type of ham is both a "hobbist
radio operator" and "a decent human being"... however, I am not so sure
the FCC is into regulating that one trait...

John

"bb" wrote in message
oups.com...


K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
KC8GXW wrote:

VIPPY! Your're back!

Hello Vipul.

The definition you quoted says"Amateur Operator". There is no
mention
of the word "ham" in the definition.

Oh crap....same old rhetoric...I see you haven't changed!

He see's that you haven't either.

How do you know? Mental telepathy? (Or are you just "mental",
which is more likely)

Backchannel.

"Ham" is a label given to certain people with a certain belief
system.

What "belief systems", Vipul...?!?!

"Belief systems" is a catch-phrase you usurped from Lennie
Anderson. Lennie is NOT a good role model to scam lines from.

People don't have belief systems?

Sure they do.

But your mentor uses the term "belief system" as if it were
dirty.

I see no evidence of that.

He has "belief systems" too, but they don't seem to include
honesty, trustworthiness or strength of character.

Some people who claim to have all of the above are creeps.

"Lessee....430."

Hams like antennas, and Morse code. They usually don't like the
technical aspect of the hobby (except for antennas).

(Here we go again....)

(There YOU go again...)

Who says so, Vipul...?!?! What organization, rule or entity
made
this "rule"...?!?! I've asked you this before and you've never
explained yourself.

Yet I see no mention of a "rule." Whatever are you talking about,
Steve?

Gee, Brain...You got the point but didn't even knoiw it...

There's no "rule"...Yet Vippy seems to think there is.

Good for you.

I see no evidence that Vipul thinks there's a rule. I only see
evidence of you thinking there is.

They are often older, and male.

So...Shall we implement euthansia and castration if a
licensee
dares to get older or have the wrong chromosomes...?!?!

Shall you?

Care to be number 1? I can help you either way you care to go...

Is that a threat?

They like to use the terminology.

Uhhhhh...yyyeahhhh...It's called "communication"...In order
to
effectively express and exchange ideas there has to be some
agreed upon
language and terms relating to the intended topic, Vipul.

QSL.

Please name me ANY sport, science, avocation, passtime or
other
human pursuit that DOESN'T have 'terminology', Vipul.

So amateurs have terminology and -don't- like to use it? Are you
agreeing with Vipul or disagreeing with Vipul???

I am humiliating Vipul.

You da man!

HE seems to think that there's some black undertones to Amateurs
using subject-specific terminology.

Amateurs are encouraged to use plain language in every emergency
management manual or training course that I've ever seen. Maybe Vipul
is on to something. Maybe you're not.

I have pointed out to him, repeatedly, that there is NO human
endeavor that doesn't ahve it's own "lingo".

Sleeping?

They like to discuss ham politics.

As opposed to roast beef politics...?!?!

Chicken politics. Squawk, squawk. Like saying "Lessee....430"
without
explanation.

No expalnation is necessary.

More "lingo?" Quit using big words that you don't know what they
mean.


Just like no explanation for illegal operating from Somalia.

Or for what "major role" unlicensed devices play in "emergency
comms".

And don't forget those overblown ARES folks who won't respond to
a
callout...

Still waiting on those, Brain...

More dodges. Creep.

There are other characteristics of a ham, which I will not
list.

Of course not.

Of course.

Is it doing more then 5 wpm code?

Yes, this is absolutely required to be accepted as a ham.

Who says? Where is this stated? In what FCC rule or ARRL
by-law
is it established? Is it in invisible ink on my FCC Form 660?

I disagree with Vipul on this one. Five WPM wasn't enough to be
accepted as a full ham by many practioners of the ancient art.

"Many"...?!?!

I would interpret "many" as to be a significant percentage.
What's
YOUR call, Brain? 10%? 35%? 50%..?!?!

From what demographic do you get your data?

Why did you drop "Lessee....430" in one of your posting right before
the Dayton Hamvention? Were you planning on stopping by my home while
you were travelling in Ohio?

Is it being accepted by certain other hams?

Hams share certain beliefs and characteristics.

Baptists share certain beliefs and characteristics. So do
dentists. Police, Fire and EMS personnel have their own beliefs.
So
do Hindus, NASCAR drivers and cat lovers.

What belief system do you share?

Hmmmmm? Which one?

Steve, right?

I am basically conservative in my politics. I
am a former Paramedic and and presently an ACLS Nurse. I am a
licensed
aviator.

Not to mention a 30+ year licensed Amateur.

Paramedic and Nurse is a belief system? Aviation is a belief system?

What was YOUR point?

What was your point in saying, "Lessee....430?"

What was your point in "Somalia", "unlicensed devices", "ARES",
etc etc etc?

Why can't you answer a question about you dropping my house number
into
one of your posts prior to the Dayton Hamvention?

Without acceptance, one cannot be a "true" ham.

Sure you can.

I agree with Steve on this one. You just have to ignore the
knuckle-heads that would put you down for not attaining ever higher
Morse Code speeds.

Then I can assume you now publically acknowledge that I have
stated, now and in the past, that being a 20+WPM code deamon is not a
prerequisite to being a good Amateur?

I publically acknowledge that Steven J Robeson, 20WPM Extra is not a
good Amateur.

Lennie doesn't accept ANY of us...

Not true.

He doesn't. He talks nice to you because of your public
expression
of "admration" fro him in the face of copious evidence that he's a
chronic liar.

You're a chronic liar.

Does that mean we don't exist?

You exist in a negative way.

No more or less than you, Brain.

We'll just have to disagree on that one.

Once and for all, Vipul...

There is no one person, group, organization, entity or
"belief
system" that dictates what makes a "good ham".

Not according to Larry, Dick, or Kelly.

Oh?

Where?

I've enver seen one of them state that one and only one person,
group organization, entity or belief system is the only true one.

Quotes, please.

Dick quit being a VE because he didn't """believe""" that the new
people were worthy of his time. Larry is on record numerous times
telling everyone who tripped over his postings that he was better than
everyone else. Kelly, well, he Kelly.

Unfortunately, if only more amateur on here would come forward and
condemn those who exhibit the characteristics of a "bad ham," such
as
yourself...

But what transpires in here is NOT "Amateur Radio".

An amateur is balanced.

You can discuss my on-air operating with K0HB, K8MN and N2EY if
you care to.

N0IMD is not in my log, on ANY mode.

And you are not in any of my logs. Not in my KA0ZFY, N0iMD, HL9ACT,
N0iMD/KH2, N0iMD/9, N0iMD/T5, N0iMD/9 logs.

Could it be the date they were first licensed, or maybe the
class of
license they hold now?

Sorry, I do not know or understand the question.

Did you need it in another language? Seemed pretty straight
forward to me.

Bruce has his Extra. Seems like most of the trouble-makers are
Extras.

Every bag of potatoes has one spoiled in it.

At least.

Bruce is Amateur Radio's spoiled potatoe.

Hi!

You'll please note that no one here with an Extra, other than
Bruce, LIKES Bruce.

I don't care who likes whom. I merely stated that most of the
trouble-makers are Extra licensed amateurs, and I stand by my
statement.

As for the class of
licence they hold right now, Morse code is required above the
Technician class. Those in the Technician class can still be
hams, as
long as they agree with ham beliefs. One of those beliefs, of
course,
is that they will eventually learn Morse code.

You keep saying this but you never explain yourself.

The have to profess the faith, and frequently claim that they are
"studying the Morse Code."

Who are "the", Brain? (I know you meant "they")...???

Those who feel they have to agree with ham beliefs, or at least play
lip service to it or else feel the scorn of the hard-boiled hams.

Can somebody who gets into amateur radio today with the "give
away
license" ever be considered a real ham?

The license is a "give away" - no disputing that.

Sure there is.

Todays entry level license exam contains far more breadth and depth
of
radio communications knowledge than any entry level license in the
history of amateur radio.

Yep. Since 1991.

Lennie's never availed himself of it.

Nor have most Americans, even those who are highly skilled in radio
communications and engineering.

To the best of my knowledge no one is "given" a license.
Everyone
is required to take one of several written exams. If they opt to
operate on HF, they must take a Morse Code exam.

Captain Obvious.

Obviously not. Jim (GXW) called it a "give away" and Vipul
agreed.

I agree that it's almost childishly simple to get, however folks
still manage to fail it at a regular basis. It's still not a "give
away".

Agreed.

And despite the fact that the license IS markedly easier to
get
these days, people still manage to fail the exams. Ergo it's NOT
a
"giveaway"...

Far more difficult...

How did you know about the vanity license?

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh...read about it?

K4CAP...?

And K4YZ. And I read about the program, just like I suggest
above.

Your point?

You did more than read about it.

Maybe it was in some of that "terminology" you seem to think
is so
bad...

Steve, K4YZ

Terminology like, "Lessee....430?"

Like "unlicensed devices", "overblown ARES", etc etc etc...

No. Very much unlike those. Exactly like my house number.

Steve, K4YZ

I just can't understand why you would post my house number prior to
the
Dayton Hamvention unless you planned on stopping by while you were in
Ohio.

Were you planning on stopping by? Didn't you have something to
"teach"
me?