David T. Hall (N3CVJ) wrote:
The number of
those without health care (seniors included) far outnumber those healthy
workers who get laid off.

Most companies who employ skilled workers,

have some form of healthcare coverage as

part of their benefits package. I've never had a
job without it.


Your personal situation is irrelevant to the majority. A growing trend
has been major employers hiring at 32 hours or less to avoid offering
health care benefits.

Resumption of healthcare coverage is tied to

.the laid-off worker's need to find another job.

So what happens in between when on eneeds prescription medication? When
one is laid off from their job and offered the mandated COBRA, the cost
is always greater than the original. Now, you have people who can not
only pay their bills, but can't afford their medical covereage. What is
your solution?

That way, no one layoff can cripple a

significant portion of the population.


Depends what you consider a significant portion of the population. I can
think of several examples..Reagan importing cheaper metals from the
Asians decimated the steel industry in Pa and Ohio.

I live within an easy drive of 4 different steel

plants. The towns that surrounded them were

dependant on those mills for the majority of

their income. But 20 years later and things

have pretty much recovered. People can get

pretty creative when they need to be.


Recovered from what? You said it couldn't happen, but by invoking the
fact they recovered, you unwittingly admit the towns were indeed
crippled from such layoffs..



In many of those
industry towns, this led to the closing of the
mills and a significant layoff of those town's
populations and many of those towns became ghettos or ghost towns
because of that.

Not in my area. The towns (Allentown,

Phoenixville, Fairless Hills, and

Conshohocken) are still going strong, although
the people who live there are forced to

commute to work now.

The towns are going through a revitalization,

where the old factories have been leveled and

in their place have sprung up huge business

campuses.

Those towns were never considered large steel towns or large steel
industy towns. Think Pittsburgh and similar cities in Ohio.
Same can be said with coal
mining and to a certain extent, the auto industry. History repeats
itself.

Yes, as we continue to become more efficient

at manufacture,


Whaaaa? Manufacturing is DOWN, not becoming more efficient.



the nature of jobs have evolved along with it.

The automobile pretty much ended the

demand for blacksmiths.

But we shouldn't

blame the automobile for causing the demise

of the blacksmith industry. The smart

blacksmith went back to school and learned to
repair cars.


Blacksmiths were never a large industry and the position was never one
of those that most in a city were employed, rendering the example
fruitless and non-related.


That's one of the reasons why I still live where

I do. I was once contemplating a move to both
Florida and North Carolina. But the lack of

.diverse skilled jobs and much lower pay

scales pretty much nixed that move.

Lack of diverse skilled jobs?

Excuse me, I should have said diverse high

.paying skilled jobs.

When was the last time you checked the
stats? Florida has led the country in adding new jobs and has not felt
the inflation the country has felt the last so many years. The pay here
was always offset by the lower cost of living.

That's a myth.


Ok,,in the same manner you claimed one who lived in another state could
not tell you about Pa, what makes you feel you can tell a lifelong
resident of another state about their state?
It;s not a myth, Dave. There is no state income tax and prices have
always been lower in Fl,,until recently (last 10 years).

Yes, there are certain costs which are lower

in Florida. The homestead exemption saves a

bundle on property tax. Homes are (were)

cheaper. There is no state tax, and utilities are
somewhat lower.



Utilites are higher, especially electric, as the majority of homes do
not have gas. Gas was only recently introduced as a choice for heating
and cooking, and even in most cities, it has to be trucked in (propane).


Yes, many costs ARE lower to an extent. But

if you try to buy something like a car, gasoline,
or a major appliance or consumer good, the

cost is pretty mush the same as it is in any

other state.



Again,,nope. Auto costs are not only in better condition (speaking of
used, of course) but new cars are somehwta cheaper here, so are most
manufactured goods. The exceptions are the tourist areas and coastal
regions that are developed. I can get a gallon of milk for 3 bucks here.
I can get a gallon of milk in Chiefland for 2.29. this is the norm, not
the exception.

And at 30-40% less of a salary, for

the same job, that limits one's buying power.


Yep,,salaries for workers who work for another have always been low
compared to the northern states.
The only people that have
trouble adjusting are those who live beyond their means.

Living beyond one's means is somewhat

subjective. It depends on where you are living

and what your earning power is.


Your salary has nothing to do with one living beyond their means. One
can make 200 bucks a week and live beyond their means, just as one who
makes 2000 bucks a week can live beyond their means. It is also not
linked to geography or earning power.
_
=A0People like you
usually get what is coming in the end

Yes, we tend to survive, because we don't

look to other people to blame, or to the

government for help.

What about this job retraining you speak of? Who pays for it?

We do. That's one area of assistance that I'm

very much in favor of. Training enables people
to become self-sufficient.


Yet, govvernment medical care enables people to live and be healthy,
yet, you are against that.

That's what self sufficiency and personal

responsibility are all about.


One can not be self sufficient is one is sick and ailing.
Looking to the government for assistance is perfectly acceptable in many
instances, Dave. There are thousands and thousands and thousands of
people STILL homeless in Fl because of the hurricanes.

Yes, Yes, and YES. I'm totally cool with

hardship TEMPORARY assistance.

Many of the major
insurance companies are STILL unable to pay for their customer's claims.

And my insurance premiums have increased

as a result. Yet the company swears that it

has nothing to do with the large payouts they

.had to make to cover those claims. Somehow
I don't believe them.....

If it wasn't for the government assistance (what you always refer to as
"handouts") with food, water, shelter, etc., these folks would be on the
welfare tit.

What's the difference? A handout is a

handout, unless you are expected to pay it

back. Government assistance or welfare?

Comes from the same place. But again, I have
no problem if it's temporary only.

Many folks would benefit and live healthier and longer if they were
permitted even temporary medical assistance from the government,,,so are
you for it or against it?
=A0=A0Now please 'splain how being self-sufficient and personally
responsible can help these folks who paid their premiums on time
faithfully all those years, had their homes destroyed or damaged to the
point they are rendered unsafe for living conditions, lost all their
possessions, yet still manage to survive by living in tents, can bring
them up out of their hell created by the insurance companies who are
regulated by the federal government.

The insurance companies are obligated to

make good on their claims.


But they AREN'T making good on their claims, Dave, and this is the
problem.


And they should be made to repay the

.government for any "handouts" it had to pay

to house people until the insurance companies
settled.



The government disagrees, this why FEMA was created.

Call it an "incentive" clause.


You really have no clue the
magnitude of damage these storms had on many people in Florida.

I saw some of it when I was there last fall.

There
are so many hardworking people that are struggling just to feed their
kids, living in tents, and waiting for the federal government to crack
down on the insurance companies and make them ante up.

.Which they should.


But they AREN'T doing it, and the government is STILL permitting these
companies do write more policies.
To suggest these
fine families are anything less than responsible or self-sufficient
shows you haven't a clue, Dave.

I never said anything of the sort. I'm not talking
about temporarily displaced people. I'm talking
about perpetual slackers.

Does being displaced for a year eqaute your idea of temporary?
On the contrary, I will lay odds these
folks are illustrating survival skills and grit that you couldn't
handle.

Based on what?

Based on your invoked claims of your material possessions.
Many of these folks have been living out of doors, literally, for almost
a year and cooking on fires or grills.

I do that for fun.

Try this for a year, when all of your equipment enabling you to partake
in this "fun" has been destroyed, then you -may- be qualified to speak
of what these people should and shouldn't do.
_
and karma, luck, divine
intervention, whatever, will dictate you end up just like those you
blame for being poor, black, queer, liberal, etc. In fact, your daughter
may quit school, commonly become pregnant to an African-American or
three, have many children and volunteer at the ACLU before realizing she
is a lesbian and needs a job to pay the attorney for the crack and
prostitution charges.

Not likely because she will have grown up in a

solid supportive family that helps each other

and promotes open communications and a

strong work ethic with solid morals.

What the hell does that have to do with having children to another race?

.Nothing. If she wants to marry a black guy,

I'm

cool with it. As long as they love each other.

You can tell you are about to tread in unfamiliar parenting territory.
Just you wait. Mistakenly believing that strong morals and all that good
stuff aimed at raising your child will prevent her from making her
mistakes is the mistake many people make. In fact, many of us who have
raised children to adults know better than to believe such tripe, as we
were there long before you, Dave. If what you say were true, drug
addicts and prostitutes and the like would come from only families that
were broken and had no communications, strong work ethic or solid
morals. Addiction has no cultural, socioeconomic boundaries.

Yes it does to a certain degree.

No, it doesn't, at all. Crack is found in the whitest suburbs as well as
the darkest ghettos. In fact, the children in this country in addiction
programs are overwhelmingly white and from middle class to well -to-do
families.

Kids rebel and turn to things like drugs

because they need an outlet for their energy,

or they are craving attention.


Among a boatload of reasons you ignore...abuse, peer pressure,
self-esteem, curiosity, lies told to them by those who buy into the
government's bull**** war on drugs...etc. It's hypocritical of us to
tell the kids to just say no when we ply them with ritalin from a young
age and mom smokes cigarettes, drinks cup after cup of coffee, and dad
drinks alcohol, even if it's the cocktail with dinner.

Provide them with many sorts of creative

avenues to release, and there will be no need

to turn to destructive behavior.


Again,,,bull****.

A kid who plays sports, acts in drama clubs,

plays in the band, participates in the arts, or

has a worthwhile hobby, will be way too busy

to hang out with the slackers.


Your mistake is believing drug use by children is inherent to these you
call "slackers".

Giving a kid an activity that they can be proud

to excel at and bolster their self esteem (While

learning what it means to truly EARN it) builds

character.


Yup,,character that is torn down when these suburban kids from loving
families begin using harmful drugs.

Lastly, never lose communication with them.

Set your ground rules while they are young,

and they become adjusted to them. Let a child
run amuck when they are young, and then try

to reign them in when they hit the teenaged

years, and you've already lost. Talk to them

always. Know all their friends (and their

parents).

Make sure they know that you're

always there for them. Support them in

whatever they do. Show up at their plays,

cheer them on at their games. Listen to their

teachers when you have conferences. Trust

them enough and allow them to make small

mistakes, but keep on the lookout for major

ones. In short, STAY INVOLVED!



Al that is great advice, but is irrelevant in the real world.

I know how my parents raised me. I know from
a child's perspective which disciplines worked,

and which ones didn't.

I use what I learned to my advantage as a

parent.



You ignore the fact that peer pressure is greater today than you can
comprehend....your advice has been followed time and time again, yet
there are great kids who succumb to drugs every day.